THE GENERAL - MONSTERS - Official Discussion Thread. NO LINKS OR ASKING FOR LINKS

[22frets]

9 minutes ago, evilfacelessturtle said:

Guys, the last lyric in the song is "it's over now" - Axl is obviously dropping a hint that this is the last CD track before they record a new album!!!

NEW ALBUM CONFIRMED!!!!

No, it obviously means that the reunion era is over and Robin and Bucket are coming back, because clearly Slash isn't playing on GnR songs anymore. 

[megaguns1982]

2 hours ago, The Real McCoy said:

It may just be some kind of legal or contractual agreement that Slash and Duff would get writing credits on any music released going forward.

That makes the most sense, we’ve heard versions of some songs that were already “written” I doubt adding a new bass line counts as a writing credit.

if slash and Duff get credited must mean that whoever played lead on those songs originally probably lost their writing credit to slash which I’d imagine would be a hard pill to swallow.

[evilfacelessturtle]

2 hours ago, Freightrain said:

I would love to hear your brilliant  songs, with structures that would blown away everybody in this forum. 

 

Where are your amazing lyrics, complex structures and fun chords?? 

 

Got a link?? 

As a musician myself, I hate this kind of attempt to silence criticism. You don't have to be a songwriter to criticize, much less be a better songwriter.

But I can use my knowledge to say that these songs are in fact built around pretty simple and common chord progressions. There's nothing complex about these structures at all. While I still like a lot of CD stuff, they have a habit of building songs out of simple chord changes that are elevated by Axl's vocal melodies and the layers added on top.

And while I like some of the lyrics, others are pretty awkward (which is a larger criticism I have of Axl's post-UYI lyrics). Lines that straight up have grammatical mistakes like "perhaps I was wrong when I don't believe you" are too common across the CD-era material. "My early warning was your satan laughing" is grammatically wrong. Stuff like "can anybody tell me why the pain just won't stop" is pretty unoriginal and cliche.

Some lyrics seem like rough ideas that ended up staying because Axl wasn't confident he could surpass the existing recorded performances.

13 minutes ago, Miden34 said:

i really think state of grace is being saved for the new album, along with devious bastards and atlas.

Dear god, I hope not. SOG sounds like Axl fuckng around and trying to make the guys laugh in the studio. Wildly off-key and pitchy as fuck.

7 minutes ago, 22frets said:

No, it obviously means that the reunion era is over and Robin and Bucket are coming back, because clearly Slash isn't playing on GnR songs anymore. 

Actually, I was trolling, it means that Axl is is going to retire from music to live in Polynesia and marry a prostitute.

[22frets]

7 minutes ago, evilfacelessturtle said:

Actually, I was trolling, it means that Axl is is going to retire from music to live in Polynesia and marry a prostitute.

I thought he'd have wanted to live in Madagascar. 

[WhazUp]

45 minutes ago, Coma16 said:

That's not Slash on The General (but he's all over Monsters)

On the leak that we got a few days ago? To my ears that is 100% Slash, his wah and his particular tone when in shred mode in the end there

[evilfacelessturtle]

Did we ever find out who was actually playing on SOYL, Absurd, HS and Perhaps? Was Frank on any of them? The drums on Perhaps are identical to the demo, I remember comparing them back to back. Is Melissa on any of them?

[bmus1]

2 minutes ago, evilfacelessturtle said:

Did we ever find out who was actually playing on SOYL, Absurd, HS and Perhaps? Was Frank on any of them? The drums on Perhaps are identical to the demo, I remember comparing them back to back. Is Melissa on any of them?

SOYL is quantized Steven. Absurd and Perhaps is Brain (the Perhaps drum track was previously unheard, listen to the chorus cymbals versus Josh's toms in the demo). The HS drums have been said to Brain, Frank, and a drum machine by different people, but I'm on team drum machine sampled from Frank's kit.

Melissa isn't credited on any song.

[JAxlMorrison]

18 minutes ago, evilfacelessturtle said:

As a musician myself, I hate this kind of attempt to silence criticism. You don't have to be a songwriter to criticize, much less be a better songwriter.

But I can use my knowledge to say that these songs are in fact built around pretty simple and common chord progressions. There's nothing complex about these structures at all. While I still like a lot of CD stuff, they have a habit of building songs out of simple chord changes that are elevated by Axl's vocal melodies and the layers added on top.

And while I like some of the lyrics, others are pretty awkward (which is a larger criticism I have of Axl's post-UYI lyrics). Lines that straight up have grammatical mistakes like "perhaps I was wrong when I don't believe you" are too common across the CD-era material. "My early warning was your satan laughing" is grammatically wrong. Stuff like "can anybody tell me why the pain just won't stop" is pretty unoriginal and cliche.

Some lyrics seem like rough ideas that ended up staying because Axl wasn't confident he could surpass the existing recorded performances.

Dear god, I hope not. SOG sounds like Axl fuckng around and trying to make the guys laugh in the studio. Wildly off-key and pitchy as fuck.

Actually, I was trolling, it means that Axl is is going to retire from music to live in Polynesia and marry a prostitute.

Agreed Axl can veer into cliches from time to time. In the case of The General however, I take the subject and inspiration into account and say well, that’s how he wanted to express that. No wordplay, no cleverness, just straight up. 

[GnR Chris]

10 minutes ago, evilfacelessturtle said:

As a musician myself, I hate this kind of attempt to silence criticism. You don't have to be a songwriter to criticize, much less be a better songwriter.

But I can use my knowledge to say that these songs are in fact built around pretty simple and common chord progressions. There's nothing complex about these structures at all. While I still like a lot of CD stuff, they have a habit of building songs out of simple chord changes that are elevated by Axl's vocal melodies and the layers added on top.

And while I like some of the lyrics, others are pretty awkward (which is a larger criticism I have of Axl's post-UYI lyrics). Lines that straight up have grammatical mistakes like "perhaps I was wrong when I don't believe you" are too common across the CD-era material. "My early warning was your satan laughing" is grammatically wrong. Stuff like "can anybody tell me why the pain just won't stop" is pretty unoriginal and cliche.

Some lyrics seem like rough ideas that ended up staying because Axl wasn't confident he could surpass the existing recorded performances.

Dear god, I hope not. SOG sounds like Axl fuckng around and trying to make the guys laugh in the studio. Wildly off-key and pitchy as fuck.

Actually, I was trolling, it means that Axl is is going to retire from music to live in Polynesia and marry a prostitute.

You know, I’m curious why he sings it “when I don’t believe you.” ‘Cause in the lines preceding it, he says, “when I didn’t see you.” So he could have easily sang, “when I didn’t believe you.” If he was trying to keep the six syllable structure, he could have just sang, “Well, I don’t believe to you.” But maybe that changes the meaning he was attempting to convey. Interestingly enough, their official shirt has the line “But I don’t believe you.” And I have never heard “but” instead of “when” or “well.”

Anyway, I like the satan line in “Monsters.” I interpret it like he saw a glimpse of the devil inside her. I actually like several lines from both leaked songs. Something like “I never cared how much I cared when I cared for you” is so good. But to your point, the line would have been clearer if he sang, “I never cared I cared too much when I cared for you.” 

Sometimes it really is all about the delivery elevating what might seem like a simple lyric though.  In The Rolling Stones new track “Depending on You,” the line “Now she’s giving my love to someone new.” Simple. So powerful. Agonizing.

But to use another GNR song as an example, “There was a Time.”

Axl wails: “I would do anything for you. There was a time I would do anything for you. I would do anything for you. There was a time.”

Simple line, right? But it’s brilliant. And THEN, even though he sings basically the same thing again after the beautiful solo, there’s a tone-shift due to the order in which he sings it.

Axl comes back and says “There was a time I would do anything for you …. I would do anything for you … I would do anything for you.”

He’s basically admitting he’d STILL do anything for this woman who broke his heart.

[Blackstar]

12 minutes ago, evilfacelessturtle said:

Did we ever find out who was actually playing on SOYL, Absurd, HS and Perhaps? Was Frank on any of them? The drums on Perhaps are identical to the demo, I remember comparing them back to back. Is Melissa on any of them?

Absurd: There were no specific credits except for Brain on drums. But we know that Slash (of course), Duff and Fortus are on it and Melissa says on her website that she's on it, too.

Hard Skool: No credits, but we know for sure that Slash, Duff, and Fortus are on it. The drums have been a matter for debate. Most people thought it was Frank, but according to Melissa's website it's Brain and she's on it, too.

Perhaps: We have detailed official credits. Slash, Duff, Fortus, Brain, Axl on piano, Dizzy on keyboards.

[Arnuld]

45 minutes ago, Miden34 said:

i really think state of grace is being saved for the new album, along with devious bastards and atlas.

There is no album. Slash said he wanted to cut a brand new one but he’s on the road all next year. It’s just gonna be more singles or nothing 

[Miden34]

2 minutes ago, Arnuld said:

There is no album. Slash said he wanted to cut a brand new one but he’s on the road all next year. It’s just gonna be more singles or nothing 

we will see negative nancy 

also i've got ass to eat. 

[Blackstar]

6 minutes ago, GnR Chris said:

You know, I’m curious why he sings it “when I don’t believe you.” ‘Cause in the lines preceding it, he says, “when I didn’t see you.” So he could have easily sang, “when I didn’t believe you.” If he was trying to keep the six syllable structure, he could have just sang, “Well, I don’t believe to you.” But maybe that changes the meaning he was attempting to convey. Interestingly enough, their official shirt has the line “But I don’t believe you.” And I have never heard “but” instead of “when” or “well.”

I think he wanted to talk about the present in the "I don't believe you" line, but then he would have to say "Perhaps I am wrong" in the previous line and maybe that didn't sound good. As you say, he could have also said "but I don't believe you", though then he would have to replace "but" in the line that follows ("but how would I know...") with another word, because if there were two "but" starting two lines in a row it wouldn't sound good either.

I have also noticed that although he says "But how would I know how it feels or what it is to be you", in the official lyrics in the description of the auto-generated video on youtube it says "... or what it takes to be you", which would have been better.

[GNFNRUK]

1 hour ago, Miden34 said:

i really think state of grace is being saved for the new album, along with devious bastards and atlas.

Do people honestly still believe a ‘new’ album is coming? Interesting…

[GnR Chris]

I can’t see why “State of Grace” would be saved for a new album over “Monsters,” which shares a similar structure but is superior IMO. I like “State of Grace” a lot. 

[Arnuld]

21 minutes ago, Miden34 said:

we will see negative nancy 

also i've got ass to eat. 

I’m not negative just been going through this since 1999 and incredibly realistic. I still think it’s a miracle that CD ever got released 

[Miden34]

Just read an article so for the guy that thinks free as a bird and now and then are the same(apart from the obviously different melody) i was right here you go.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-11-02/the-beatles-documentary-now-and-then-what-we-learned/103050276

 

"The film features some brilliant archival footage of the band, some from their 1960s glory days, and more from the mid-90s session when they completed the first two songs unearthed from Lennon's demo."

Free as a bird, and Now and Then. Like paul says in the vid, they didn't have the tech to do now and then back then. so we got free as a bird 

Edited November 2, 2023 by Miden34

[Stro]

I really doubt State of Grace will be released in any fashion. The structural similarities with The General/Monsters almost seem like SOG was (significantly) reworked.

[Miden34]

1 minute ago, Stro said:

I really doubt State of Grace will be released in any fashion. The structural similarities with The General/Monsters almost seem like SOG was (significantly) reworked.

its similar but i like state of grace much more and i think they do it no question.

[evilfacelessturtle]

19 minutes ago, bmus1 said:

SOYL is quantized Steven. Absurd and Perhaps is Brain (the Perhaps drum track was previously unheard, listen to the chorus cymbals versus Josh's toms in the demo). The HS drums have been said to Brain, Frank, and a drum machine by different people, but I'm on team drum machine sampled from Frank's kit.

Melissa isn't credited on any song.

The snare of SOYL sounds a little too loose and deep for Steven. That's usually how I can recognize Frank; he has that deep snare tone. But I'm not really sure either way on that one.

8 minutes ago, GnR Chris said:

You know, I’m curious why he sings it “when I don’t believe you.” ‘Cause in the lines preceding it, he says, “when I didn’t see you.” So he could have easily sang, “when I didn’t believe you.” If he was trying to keep the six syllable structure, he could have just sang, “Well, I don’t believe to you.” But maybe that changes the meaning he was attempting to convey. Interestingly enough, their official shirt has the line “But I don’t believe you.” And I have never heard “but” instead of “when” or “well.”

He could have simply truncated the word and said "When I didn' believe you" to keep it at 6 syllables. Pretty common thing to do.

Quote

Something like “I never cared how much I cared when I cared for you” is so good. But to your point, the line would have been clearer if he sang, “I never cared I cared too much when I cared for you.” 

Oh no, that line is in fact quite clever because it's a deliberate and unexpected turn of phrase. Like the saying "you don't know what you don't know". 

And totally agreed that delivery can make a basic lyric hit differently. I don't feel that's the case with "the pain it just won't stop", though.

[DarkLotus1111]

3 hours ago, Sweersa said:

Brodie was believed to be the name of the popular mod L!VE FREE from the now gone CD.com forum, he was a regular poster who allegedly had a lot of unreleased Guns material.  It is said MSL obtained Shackler's from him. 

Thanks for the info, I have no idea who those people are that's why. So Brodie has CD II or is that a rumor? 

[Sweersa]

2 hours ago, GoForJMark said:

It's all over now for me is it? 

Nope, there’s always CD3!

Just now, DarkLotus1111 said:

Thanks for the info, I have no idea who those people are that's why. So Brodie has CD II or is that a rumor? 

Not confirmed of course, but he claimed there was a lot more material than most thought. And he implied he more or less had CD2 on his iPod. I believe he also said there was a guy in Vegas who had a lot of material. 

[evilfacelessturtle]

43 minutes ago, Blackstar said:

Absurd: There were no specific credits except for Brain on drums. But we know that Slash (of course), Duff and Fortus are on it and Melissa says on her website that she's on it, too.

Hard Skool: No credits, but we know for sure that Slash, Duff, and Fortus are on it. The drums have been a matter for debate. Most people thought it was Frank, but according to Melissa's website it's Brain and she's on it, too.

Perhaps: We have detailed official credits. Slash, Duff, Fortus, Brain, Axl on piano, Dizzy on keyboards.

Do you have any idea what Melissa might have done on them?

I'm curious what you think about SOYL.

[Live Like a Suicide]

I think the best we can say is that we only know a few things for sure:

- The General and Monsters was officially registered as one song.

- We now have The General and Monsters.

- What we thought was The General was actually Monsters.

- The Monsters version we have is different to the phone leak version.

- Monsters may indeed be Soul Monster (not 100% confirmed but close enough).

Everything else is mostly speculation pending confirmation from the vinyl release or band statements. Yes, even the matter of who is playing on the song.

[Blackstar]

Just now, evilfacelessturtle said:

Do you have any idea what Melissa might have done on them?

I'm curious what you think about SOYL.

On Absurd I suppose she replaced whatever Ptiman played originally, maybe the bridge? I would think that Dizzy plays the main keyboard parts, since he co-wrote the song.

Hard Skool, I have no idea. I didn't even notice there was a keyboard, then people pointed out that there is a keyboard low in the mix, but wouldn't it make more sense if it was Dizzy?

I don't know about the drums on SOYL. I'm not good at noticing differences. But just going by what has been said (Steven said he didn't recognize his drumming on it and Frank, when asked if he was on it, avoided answering and just said "that's a question for management"), I'd say that it could be Frank.