THE GENERAL - MONSTERS - Official Discussion Thread. NO LINKS OR ASKING FOR LINKS

[Master Of Reality]

Just now, guitarpatch said:

If you know anything about Azoff, it’s obvious. That’s what he does. Why Axl didn’t see that? No clue. Unless he wanted the reunion to happen earlier 

Azoff got fired just because he pushed him into a reunion.

[guitarpatch]

6 minutes ago, Master Of Reality said:

Azoff got fired just because he pushed him into a reunion.

Yeah. Azoff is notorious as a manager for creating reunions through isolation/manipulation. That’s his playbook. Why hire him? Unless you wanted to go down that road at some point? It never really made sense 

I think part of it was also his part in forcing the album out 

Edited November 3, 2023 by guitarpatch

[Rovim]

7 minutes ago, guitarpatch said:

Yeah. Azoff is notorious as a manager for creating reunions through isolation/manipulation. That’s his playbook. Why hire him? Unless you wanted to go down that road at some point? It never really made sense 

who knows what Azoff said to Axl, what he promised him and how he said it. Having the reputation of a reunions whisperer doesn't mean it's an automatic deal breaker.

I'll even go as far as say that maybe Axl wanted to reunite eventually, but felt that Azoff didn't give enough attention to Chinese cause that was secondary to him and all he really cared about was the main thing which was the reunion so to Axl maybe he saw that as Azoff trying to sabotage the release and promotion of Chinese and just wanted for that phase to be over with.

Edited November 3, 2023 by Rovim

[Master Of Reality]

1 minute ago, Rovim said:

who knows what Azoff said to Axl, what he promised him and how he said it. Having the reputation of a reunions whisperer doesn't mean it's an automatic deal breaker.

I'll even go as far as say that maybe Axl wanted to reunite eventually, but felt that Azoff didn't give enough attention to Chinese cause that was secondary to him and all he cared about was the main thing which was the reunion.

Makes sense

[Mikey Whipwreck]

9 minutes ago, guitarpatch said:

Yeah. Azoff is notorious as a manager for creating reunions through isolation/manipulation. That’s his playbook. Why hire him? Unless you wanted to go down that road at some point? It never really made sense 

I think part of it was also his part in forcing the album out 

In the world of music management your choice is basically Yes Men, such as Doug Goldstein and TB, or snakes, such as Merck and Azoff and basically any manager that can actually get things done at a high level. The music business is as dirty an industry as there is, you don't necessarily want your manager to be a nice person. 

They needed a heavyweight who had the clout and ability to negotiate a release strategy that was amenable to UMG and the band. Given the mess that the process had been and the amount of money that had been spent, options were limited. In the end, Azoff got it done. 

[GnR Chris]

“This is called ‘The General’” should be the new name of this thread. Man, it’s so good hearing Axl say that last night.

Now I kinda hope “The General” has the strings higher in the mix on the studio version like what we heard live. But I like the leak as is.

[Rovim]

Just now, Mikey Whipwreck said:

In the world of music management your choice is basically Yes Men, such as Doug Goldstein and TB, or snakes, such as Merck and Azoff and basically any manager that can actually get things done at a high level. The music business is as dirty an industry as there is, you don't necessarily want your manager to be a nice person. 

They needed a heavyweight who had the clout and ability to negotiate a release strategy that was amenable to UMG and the band. Given the mess that the process had been and the amount of money that had been spent, options were limited. In the end, Azoff got it done. 

he got the album released and managed to make a deal that was a good deal for the label but I don't think that was the only results his client, Axl in this case, was expecting. I think it's likely that Axl wanted a big promotion for an album that was in the works for 10 years and not enough efforts were made to push it in Axl's mind maybe. Especially for a musician like Axl seems to be, rushing the process of releasing Chinese was a dirty move and I understand his reaction if at least some of what I think happened there is true.

[Miden34]

the version of the general we got is slash. hate ob me for all my opinions, but in the beginning, when they first leaked i was one of the people positive it was slash on the records. i tried to find a way to make sense of it being an old demo because i kinda wanted it to be an old demo. but when these first came out i thought it was slash and it was. how many "music engineers" or guitarists did i argue with on here that were "sure" it wasnt slash. 

[Free Bird]

2 hours ago, Voodoochild said:

This. I'm not sure if he forgot to start at the right time (the solo starts before Axl finishes the chorus), or if just waited because the chorus would lost a bit of power if he stopped playing rhythm. 

But from what I could hear from that rehearsal video, it's clear to me that Slash is improvising on top of the general (no pun) theme of his solo. Which is fine, I loved it. 

Another thing to notice: some people thought he was using his talkbox effect for the riffs. It's just his wah pedal with lower gain.

They did say it wasn't from a 4chan post. I honestly don't doubt. 

Yeah I thought as well he used the talkbox on the left channel in the studio recording. Wtf, at least I didn't thought it was BH 

[22frets]

4 minutes ago, Miden34 said:

the version of the general we got is slash. hate ob me for all my opinions, but in the beginning, when they first leaked i was one of the people positive it was slash on the records. i tried to find a way to make sense of it being an old demo because i kinda wanted it to be an old demo. but when these first came out i thought it was slash and it was. how many "music engineers" or guitarists did i argue with on here that were "sure" it wasnt slash. 

Nice try, buddy. You aren't weaseling your way out of eating ass. 

[Lelex95]

3 hours ago, Towelie said:

They need to put all the singles out on one vinyl. 

1. Absurd 

2. Hard Skool

3. Perhaps

4. The General

6. Monster.

7. Atlas Shrugged

^^^ I'd pay good money for that vinyl.

State of grace 

Oh my god 

maybe a studio version of Wichita lineman and slither 

its a whole new album

Edited November 3, 2023 by Lelex95

[Mikey Whipwreck]

6 minutes ago, Rovim said:

he got the album released and managed to make a deal that was a good deal for the label but I don't think that was the only results his client, Axl in this case, was expecting. I think it's likely that Axl wanted a big promotion for an album that was in the works for 10 years and not enough efforts were made to push it in Axl's mind maybe. Especially for a musician like Axl seems to be, rushing the process of releasing Chinese was a dirty move and I understand his reaction if at least some of what I think happened there is true.

There was no scenario under which CD was getting a major promotional rollout in 2008 though, at least from the label. If he wanted that, he should have put it out in 2002. The record business was on life support by the time the album came out. 

Doing a retailer exclusive was the only viable path to breaking even for the label. but it guaranteed the label would do no promotion at least in the US.

If they had gone with Wal-Mart instead of Best Buy, they would've received a lot more promo and sold more due to wider availability. But they decided against that because Wal-Mart would've required any curse words to be censored. If you recall what Wal-Mart did for AC/DC compared to what Best Buy did for GNR it wasn't even close. But they made their choices and it turned out how it turned out.

[Rovim]

2 minutes ago, Mikey Whipwreck said:

There was no scenario under which CD was getting a major promotional rollout in 2008 though, at least from the label. If he wanted that, he should have put it out in 2002. The record business was on life support by the time the album came out. 

Doing a retailer exclusive was the only viable path to breaking even for the label. but it guaranteed the label would do no promotion at least in the US.

If they had gone with Wal-Mart instead of Best Buy, they would've received a lot more promo and sold more due to wider availability. But they decided against that because Wal-Mart would've required any curse words to be censored. If you recall what Wal-Mart did for AC/DC compared to what Best Buy did for GNR it wasn't even close. But they made their choices and it turned out how it turned out.

if Azoff promised shit that he didn't deliver, and I assume he did, cause why would Axl agree to the approach that was taken with Chinese , then it's on Azoff. If there was no way to give Axl what he wanted, Azoff should have been more honest from the start and how do we know there was no other approach to take? I don't know enough about the business, but I do know that Azoff just didn't deliver cause if he did, Axl wouldn't have waited a year before supporting Chinese with a tour.

I think it turned out like it turned out cause Azoff was thinking more about what he wanted and not what Axl wanted. Basically, my guess is that he lied to Axl so Axl would hire him. 

[Dean]

3 hours ago, Towelie said:

They need to put all the singles out on one vinyl. 

1. Absurd 

2. Hard Skool

3. Perhaps

4. The General

6. Monster.

7. Atlas Shrugged

^^^ I'd pay good money for that vinyl.

Throw in another 7 songs and release an album, I'd buy a copy of all the inevitable coloured vinyl!  

[Its Tino]

I wish this was 2 threads. One for each song. Too late for all that tho.

[Miden34]

25 minutes ago, 22frets said:

Nice try, buddy. You aren't weaseling your way out of eating ass. 

im not..... did you read what i said? i said i tried to convince myself it was a demo. before the other thread was shutdown, i was ADIMANT that it was slash. plus i already owned the ass eating. the person i said that too already beat you to the punch. I like how you can remember that, but dont remember anything i said when the songs first released. xD

[Miden34]

32 minutes ago, 22frets said:

Nice try, buddy. You aren't weaseling your way out of eating ass. 

18th comment down on the old thread.  "these are real. makes sense why they were b-side. you cant mistake slashs playing."

dont tell me i didnt say it was slash when they first came out when i did. 

 

Edited November 3, 2023 by Miden34

[KIKOZ3]

6 hours ago, WhazUp said:

All due respect, I don't think cares about this argument topic anymore, if you want to call him $lash and boast about how Axl carried on without him playing much smaller venues than with him, take a DeLorean with a time machine back to the year 2010 and go on a date with Volcano62  

Three hundred thousand people is really less.

 

Rock in Rio 2001!

 

idiot!

[22frets]

4 minutes ago, Miden34 said:

18th comment down on the old thread.  "these are real. makes sense why they were b-side. you cant mistake slashs playing."

dont tell me i didnt say it was slash when they first came out when i did. 

 

Alright, alright. But it sucks for you that you chose to die on the wrong hill. 

[rumandraisin]

27 minutes ago, Rovim said:

if Azoff promised shit that he didn't deliver, and I assume he did, cause why would Axl agree to the approach that was taken with Chinese , then it's on Azoff. If there was no way to give Axl what he wanted, Azoff should have been more honest from the start and how do we know there was no other approach to take? I don't know enough about the business, but I do know that Azoff just didn't deliver cause if he did, Axl wouldn't have waited a year before supporting Chinese with a tour.

I think it turned out like it turned out cause Azoff was thinking more about what he wanted and not what Axl wanted. Basically, my guess is that he lied to Axl so Axl would hire him. 

Wasn't it highly likely Azoff sabotaged the release and promo in order to force Axl in to a reunion. 

[meadsoap]

1 hour ago, Coma16 said:

Except with Perhaps of course.

They didn't promote Perhaps either. They mentioned it a few times on their social media, but it doesn't do anything to drive awareness of the music outside of the fanbase.who already was waiting for it.

[Rovim]

5 minutes ago, rumandraisin said:

Wasn't it highly likely Azoff sabotaged the release and promo in order to force Axl in to a reunion. 

I really don't know what actually happened there, but according to what Axl said about it, my best guess is what I said in the previous post about Azoff maybe knowing he couldn't deliver or wasn't interested in delivering what he promised Axl so he lied to him to get the job.

[Miden34]

28 minutes ago, 22frets said:

Alright, alright. But it sucks for you that you chose to die on the wrong hill. 

"sigh" i know... i know...  My mind goes in as many directions as the village session songs. 

im a product of my own stupidity 

 

the eating asshole part was the easiest part of all this xD

[Miden34]

why do i have to be a narcissist? im like the Shaw's signature select version of lex luger

[WhazUp]

1 hour ago, KIKOZ3 said:

Three hundred thousand people is really less.

 

Rock in Rio 2001!

 

idiot!

Oh yeah cause after that first show in 2001 GNR played the Staples Center and Dodger Stadium in LA without Slash all the time, and certainly weren't relegated to the Wiltern theater by 2012? 

And Rock in Rio certainly wasn't a large scale music festival that drew in huge crowds for the entire festival and all the bands there? Lol

Edited November 3, 2023 by WhazUp