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GNR Women's Discussion - Part 2

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36 minutes ago, MillionsOfSpiders said:

Some of the details are a little different now - like here she said when Axl came back from Indiana she went to talk to him about the baby which Slash had already told him about because he said “you’re pregnant” and she said “I was” which seemed to be a trigger. 

Now she says she went to confront him because he had fucked one of her friends and then he brought up the baby which Slash had told him about and he knew about the miscarriage too - he still screamed about her killing his baby etc. 

That’s quite a difference in my opinion. 

Maybe not to others though? 

Lol, that's probably because I think Blackstar found out Axl supposedly going to Indiana didn't fit the timeline at all.

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15 minutes ago, Blackstar said:

I listened to the audio interview

When this interview took place? Who was the reporter? Did she explain why all of a sudden she decided to add "new information" about an old event?

How come she didn't bring this information during the trial back in the 80s? The important thing is the transcript of the whole trial. It is my understanding those kind of documents are avalible to the public, at least in the U.S.

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I don’t know why her and that guy are releasing an hour long interview in four separate parts days apart from each other. 

Weird way of doing things. 

GNR Central is posting them @Padme

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3 minutes ago, MillionsOfSpiders said:

I don’t know why her and that guy are releasing an hour long interview in four separate parts days apart from each other. 

Weird way of doing things. 

GNR Central is posting them @Padme

Then let me know if she does an interview with Rolling Stone magazine or Eddie Trunk. I don't care about things coming from GNR Central. Unless people like Vicky Hamilton or Marc Canter are the ones addressing this issue.

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1 hour ago, MillionsOfSpiders said:

Now she says she went to confront him because he had fucked one of her friends and then he brought up the baby which Slash had told him about and he knew about the miscarriage too - he still screamed about her killing his baby etc. 

Where did she say that he (Axl?) already knew about the miscarriage? I listened to the audio interview and that's not what she said.

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49 minutes ago, Padme said:

When this interview took place? Who was the reporter? Did she explain why all of a sudden she decided to add "new information" about an old event?

How come she didn't bring this information during the trial back in the 80s? The important thing is the transcript of the whole trial. It is my understanding those kind of documents are avalible to the public, at least in the U.S.

The interview is recent. The "interviewer" is just some guy on twitter, who identifies himself as a "former GnR fan" and an avid Trump supporter.

But she's been on about it (on social media and then in a thread here) for quite some time. She has said that she decided to talk about it because of what has been written in books about the events - however most of the books she refers to were released years ago. She says what she's seeking for is "healing" but hasn't made it clear what she wants the band to do, although she's been posting on their social media - especially Duff's who then went to block her - and didn't answer when she was asked about it on here. She has also mentioned, just en passant, that she was raped two other times by other guys (irrelevant to GnR), one of which when she was 12, but the only case she still seems to be seeking "healing" for is Axl's.

In regards to the documents from that period, it's not clear if there was an actual trial, even though Slash says "court" in his book. "Court" could just mean only a hearing by a judge just for the charges to be dropped, which is more likely. Also in old interviews Slash mentioned that both of them went just to the police and not to court. So if it was just that and the police report, I don't know if it could be available for the public. She claims that she refused to testify and that's why the charges were dropped. One of the things that are problematic in her story is that she says that Slash wasn't there at all, although Slash himself has said he was, and other people have said (Izzy, Marc Canter) that Slash was accused as well.

 

Edited by Blackstar
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5 minutes ago, Scream of the Butterfly said:

Where did she say that he (Axl?) already knew about the miscarriage? I listened to the audio interview and that's not what she said.

Maybe I misheard that part then, still this version is different to the other - and why would Slash have told Axl about the baby but not that she had miscarried it? Seeing as she lost it about an hour after he noticed she was getting a bit fatter at The Troubadour so she told him - and then he sat singing Don’t Cry to her at the bar after it happened - you’d think he would tell Axl that part too. 

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8 minutes ago, Scream of the Butterfly said:

Where did she say that he (Axl?) already knew about the miscarriage? I listened to the audio interview and that's not what she said.

By her description of the miscarriage at the Troubadour, she made it sound that Slash knew about that too - unless Slash was smart enough to notice that she was pregnant, but he wouldn't notice she was bleeding when they were singing "Don't Cry" to her in support. So if Slash had told Axl about the pregnancy, he would have told him about that, too. 

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3 hours ago, Padme said:

Axl was into religion when was a kid. But as teen and young adult he hated religion. I don't know how he feels about abortion. But religion in not a issue that matters to him

I'm aware that he rejected his parents' religion but that doesn't mean his cultural and religious background didn't continue to influence him.

 

2 hours ago, Padme said:

But Slash says Axl and this girl had sex. And she happens to be underage at the time. Did Axl know she was underage? I don't know. And maybe Axl didn't know that either at the time.

Didn't Axl himself also refer to this girl as an ex-girlfriend? I doubt he would have done so if the relationship didn't involve sex.

According to Raz Cue they all knew she was 15.

 

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Holy shit :o

Ok, I had to go an listen to that in order to understand what we are all talking about here. So I will respond to @Scream of the Butterfly and @MillionsOfSpiders now.

1) Axl's reaction to Erin's pregnancy and miscarriage are confusing to me, in the way they've been told by the press of the time. According to People's magazine, Axl's reaction to Erin's pregnancy was bad, as in, he wasn't happy to find out she was pregnant. Then she miscarriages and he destroys the house :question:

In September 1990, Everly learned that she was pregnant. “This was all I wanted,” she says. “I thought it could have been a cure for Axl.” If so, it didn’t take: Everly says that Rose’s elation quickly soured and that he threw her out of the condo and threatened to take the baby. When she miscarried in her third month, Everly had to sell her Jeep to cover medical costs. As Everly recuperated, Rose trashed the house in the Hollywood Hills they had been preparing to move into, causing $100,000 in damages.

But when he spoke to MTV about this, he didn't sound like a psycho and said they were going to try "this baby thing" one more time. 

LM story of pregnancy and subsequent miscarriage sounds too similar to Erin's, especially Axl's reactions, where he goes in matter of minutes from apparently being happy to know that she was pregnant, to accusing her of having "killed my baby", to crying on his knees because she didn't tell him the truth and holding each other in grieve for the lost baby, to suddenly leaving her there and start fucking some random girl in the parking lot and when LM finds out he goes back in, takes her clothes off and rapes her....... All that in a matter of what?.... 20 minutes as much?

Axl is a lunatic but this is too much. And if it really did happen then I don't understand how come this didn't turn into a huge scandal. They weren't so powerful at the time, I don't know, something rings off to me and it's not exactly the rape part, to be honest.

2) At the risk of turning into an armchair psychologist, I must say that the whole thing about Axl wanting a family so much sounds more like a projection of others than his own desire. I don't have a vivid recollection of him saying these things but it's always other people who tell those stories..... Because if we guide ourselves by facts, Axl did everything in his hands to SABOTAGE this alleged dream of his.

Not only all of "his" babies died, but he trashed every serious relationship he had with women. So there he is now, at almost 60 years old, wifeless and children less. At this point, I am safe to think this is a personal choice rather than destiny.

That's why it's hard for me to think of Axl as a guy who TRULY wanted a traditional family and that's why it's hard for me to believe Little Michelle story of Axl being kind, nice, willing to have a kid at 23 and sobbing over the loss of said baby.

4 hours ago, Scream of the Butterfly said:

If other parts of Little Michelle's story are true, I don't understand why she would make up the part about the pregnancy and miscarriage. If she has a legit story to tell about a crime that was committed and is hoping for acknowledgement from members of the band, why would she ruin it with some bs story about a pregnancy that never happened?

My opinion or theory about that is that LM is affected by the way she was portrayed in those news articles and books, as some random party girl who had occasional sex with Axl, and was thrown out of the place because she was a troublemaker.

Slash doesn't acknowledge her as someone who was close to the band. Not even Axl has ever mentioned her as a former girlfriend or lover.

In her version, she's all the contrary to how these people have presented her: she says she was friends with Slash and Steven previous to meeting Axl, that they were protective of her, that she knew everybody from the band and that she had an intense relationship with Axl, in spite of him being with other women.

In a nutshell, a story of pregnancy and miscarriage helps the audience feel more compassion about the rape story than the plain sequence where she is just having consented sex with adult men. (because people in general feel more compassion for a rape story where sex is forced, as opposed to a story where a teenager has sex with adult men because she wants to. Patriarchal men and women see this as the case of a "slut" who deserves to be mistreated for not respecting herself).

2 hours ago, MillionsOfSpiders said:

Now she says she went to confront him because he had fucked one of her friends and then he brought up the baby which Slash had told him about and he knew about the miscarriage too - he still screamed about her killing his baby etc. 

That’s quite a difference in my opinion. 

To me, the weirdest part is the miscarriage at the Troubadour. 

She says she was over 3 months pregnant and she had the miscarriage at the bathroom. Then she got out and sat down at a table while the band played Don'T Cry for her? :question:

I am thinking how terrible it must be to miscarriage such a huge baby and not have consequences from that or how she didn't need to go to E.R. immediately after that??? No one called an ambulance?? How did she handle this whole thing and still managed to remain at the bar to listen to the band play?? That's fucked up to me. I just can't get around that.

Also, when Slash allegedly told Axl about her being pregnant, he didn't tell Axl that she had a miscarriage-not-an-abortion??!! Why would Axl think she killed the baby or why would Slash tell just HALF of the story, as if a miscarriage wouldn't be as traumatic and serious just like an abortion??

:shrugs:

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1 minute ago, Scream of the Butterfly said:

I'm aware that he rejected his parents' religion but that doesn't mean his cultural and religious background didn't continue to influence him.

 

Didn't Axl himself also refer to this girl as an ex-girlfriend? I doubt he would have done so if the relationship didn't involve sex.

According to Raz Cue they all knew she was 15.

 

I never read any comment coming from Axl about that girl being his girlfriend. As far as I know only Slash mentioned her in his book. It seems it was just one night stand.

Still this interview is bullshit. She was accusing Axl of rape. On top of that she was talking about pregnancy. Before printing the interview the so called reporter should talk to other sources who can back up all the claims this woman is making.

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This quote is from an interview in June 1986 (L.A Weekly), so close to those events:

Axl: People would show up at all hours, and we’d talk everybody into climbing into the loft, and someone would hit the light and go, “Alright! Everybody in the loft! Let’s get naked or leave!” This one girl fucked almost the whole band, friends of the band, the band next door and two days later she goes, “Axl, I’m having your child.”

What I get from this is 1) that there must have been some of the women/girls they slept with that got pregnant (which would be expected considering their lifestyle and that they likely didn't take any precautions) and didn't keep the babies as neither party would want to 2) that Axl's reaction if someone told him she was pregnant would probably be that the baby wasn't his and 3) that the last thing he would want then would be a baby. 

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4 minutes ago, Blackstar said:

This quote is from an interview in June 1986 (L.A Weekly), so close to those events:

Axl: People would show up at all hours, and we’d talk everybody into climbing into the loft, and someone would hit the light and go, “Alright! Everybody in the loft! Let’s get naked or leave!” This one girl fucked almost the whole band, friends of the band, the band next door and two days later she goes, “Axl, I’m having your child.”

What I get from this is 1) that there must have been of women/girls they slept with getting pregnant (which would be expected considering their lifestyle and that they likely didn't get any precautions) and not keeping the babies as neither party would want to 2) that Axl's reaction if someone told him she was pregnant would be that the baby wasn't his and 3) that the last thing he would want then would be a baby. 

I only know about one woman who said she was dating Axl during some GN'R tour. According to her, there was some kind of relationship going on. Later they broke up. Or she just left. She found out she was pregnant and she had an abortion. But she never told Axl anything. I don't remember more details. I read it somewhere long ago (not main streem media) But she wasn't any 15 year old. She was just very much a groupie at the time. And when she told this story. She was living a different and normal life

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10 minutes ago, Padme said:

I only know about one woman who said she was dating Axl during some GN'R tour. According to her, there was some kind of relationship going on. Later they broke up. Or she just left. She found out she was pregnant and she had an abortion. But she never told Axl anything. I don't remember more details. I read it somewhere long ago (not main streem media) But she wasn't any 15 year old. She was just very much a groupie at the time. And when she told this story. She was living a different and normal life

Yeah, that was a different story, Julianna Sedbrook who had participated in the WTTJ video:

https://sweet-rose-of-mine.tumblr.com/post/170077575000/interview-with-julianna-sedbrook-the-groupie-who

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1 hour ago, Blackstar said:

This quote is from an interview in June 1986 (L.A Weekly), so close to those events:

Axl: People would show up at all hours, and we’d talk everybody into climbing into the loft, and someone would hit the light and go, “Alright! Everybody in the loft! Let’s get naked or leave!” This one girl fucked almost the whole band, friends of the band, the band next door and two days later she goes, “Axl, I’m having your child.”

What I get from this is 1) that there must have been some of the women/girls they slept with that got pregnant (which would be expected considering their lifestyle and that they likely didn't take any precautions) and didn't keep the babies as neither party would want to 2) that Axl's reaction if someone told him she was pregnant would probably be that the baby wasn't his and 3) that the last thing he would want then would be a baby. 

That quote is interesting. I have never read that before. I also agree with your reasoning.

Axl never strike me as a guy who REALLY wanted children, not even with Erin and his obsession with Dylan was just bollocks to hurt the mother.

 

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11 minutes ago, killuridols said:

That quote is interesting. I have never read that before. I also agree with your reasoning.

Axl never strike me as a guy who REALLY wanted children, not even with Erin and his obsession with Dylan was just bollocks to hurt the mother.

 

I don't believe the bolded part. By all accounts, Axl is someone who really loves children. So I can imagine he was genuinely attached to Dylan too and counted on having him around. Didn't he have a room for him in his house too? I'm not saying he had any right to Dylan, but I do believe his feelings were genuine and losing him (in his eyes) had a huge impact on Axl.

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1 minute ago, Lio said:

I don't believe the bolded part. By all accounts, Axl is someone who really loves children. So I can imagine he was genuinely attached to Dylan too and counted on having him around. Didn't he have a room for him in his house too? I'm not saying he had any right to Dylan, but I do believe his feelings were genuine and losing him (in his eyes) had a huge impact on Axl.

I believe it because, to me, actions speak louder than mere words.

Let's quote what Axl has said about Dylan in the press:
"I’m around a three-year-old baby now and then, and sometimes after a few days it’s just too overwhelming for me. My head is spinning because of the changes it’s putting me through."
"[...] We want to maintain our friendship and be really protective of how our relationship affects Dylan. Dylan gets priority over us, because he could be greatly damaged, and I don’t want that to happen."

Beautiful words, right? But then he goes beating up the hell out of the mother and talking shit about her, and he expects those things will not affect Dylan?

If he had loved Dylan as much as his tongue spoke, then he wouldn't have exposed the kid in his videos and interviews and wouldn't have hurt his mother like he did. Because the most precious thing a kid has when they are 1-2-3 years old is their mother.

In my opinion, he saw in Dylan a reflection of himself when he was a child and he was loving the Axl he saw in Dylan, not the different being that Dylan really was >>
"[...] My growth was stopped at two years old. And when they talk about Axl Rose being a screaming two-year-old, they’re right. There’s a screaming two-year-old who’s real pissed off and hides and won’t show himself that often, even to me. Because I couldn’t protect him. And the world didn’t protect him. And women didn’t protect him and basically thought he should be put out of existence."

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I think this is the quote I had in mind earlier:

Axl: "I mentioned to one person about some trumped-up rape charges that we had, and that started appearing everywhere. It really wasn't that big a deal - just some old girlfriend trying to get back at us. People seem to want to believe we're really bad guys. Yeah, we've had some run-in's with the cops and we've done some strange things in our lives, but I think people are just making too much out of 'em" [Hit Parader, March 1989].

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5 hours ago, Blackstar said:

I generally want to take into account all the available versions and sources, and also look at each case separately, before I pass judgement on anything (unlike, for example, some MJ fans who refused to watch the documentary).

So, even though I'd read her side of the story on her social media and here on the forum, I listened to the audio interview too (the parts that have been uploaded so far). I've noticed that there has been a "progression" in her story, with parts of it being altered each time and new things being added. This is the case with the audio interview too and the story is also "enhanced" with more sensational details. The description of the miscarriage scene sounded like something beyond the realm of possibility. It sounded fictional. Even if the rest of her account could be considered plausible in theory - although it's not backed by any evidence for the most part and is contradicted by other accounts - this part just couldn't be. There are other things that don't add up, but this is just too much.

I also don't find her stated motive for opening up about it now very convincing.

Moreover, there is an obvious political agenda behind some of the "support" she gets, including her "interviewer".

All this has made me very skeptical (to put it mildly).

I believe the part of the story that is known from other sources for years (that she was thrown out naked). This is bad in itself, but it's still not forcible rape and it's an old story that we all knew. 

I can feel sympathy for the part I believe as true, but on the other hand I can't condone making up stuff to make someone look worse than they were or for whatever other reasons.

I see few times in GNR FB posts Hasthags about LittleMichellematter , i sure that this posts was of LittleMichelle husband. I think his name is Seth ❓

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7 minutes ago, Ratam said:

I see few times in GNR FB posts Hasthags about LittleMichellematter , i sure that this posts was of LittleMichelle husband. I think his name is Seth ❓

Yes, I think so.

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6 minutes ago, Ratam said:

I see few times in GNR FB posts Hasthags about LittleMichellematter , i sure that this posts was of LittleMichelle husband. I think his name is Seth ❓

Sorry, maybe i is wrong and the hasthag is LittleMichellelifematter.

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25 minutes ago, Scream of the Butterfly said:

I think this is the quote I had in mind earlier:

Axl: "I mentioned to one person about some trumped-up rape charges that we had, and that started appearing everywhere. It really wasn't that big a deal - just some old girlfriend trying to get back at us. People seem to want to believe we're really bad guys. Yeah, we've had some run-in's with the cops and we've done some strange things in our lives, but I think people are just making too much out of 'em" [Hit Parader, March 1989].

The problem is that Axl and the other guys have referred to this girl in many different ways, throughout the years.... sometimes it sounds like there were more than one girl accussing them of rape, because of the way the band members describe them :shrugs:

I guess it will be really hard for us to figure out what really happened, but a few things are clear to me:

1) They had sex with underaged girls.
2) Violence, drugs and alcohol were a constant in those sexual relationships.
3) Pregnancies and abortions were not uncommon to the whole bunch.
4) Sitting calmly at the table in some club, after having a miscarriage in the bathroom, is bullshit.

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10 minutes ago, killuridols said:

4) Sitting calmly at the table in some club, after having a miscarriage in the bathroom, is bullshit.

To me this is the biggest red flag in this whole story. Anyone who has suffered a miscarriage or know someone who has, will know how ludicrous this is. We're not talking just having a heavy period. It's painful and there's blood, lots of blood. 

I'm guessing this 'little Michelle' has never had kids? 

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