GNR Women's Discussion - Part 2

[Blackstar]

1 hour ago, Tori72 said:

Watch his writing of Axl's name and how he explains it under the text.  He also points out that "Axel" wanted to have shots of Manson on the TV he watches in the hotel room (in the video). So there was a fascination there and there is no way that he didn't know who was on his stupid tshirts during the uyi tour...

Of course Axl knew who Manson was. He didn't claim he didn't know anyway.

Someone here on the forum has posted a story from when Appetite was recorded. A member of another band that was rehearsing at the same studio was fascinated with Manson and doing research on him (he has written a book too). He said they were talking with Axl and he had shown great interest on Manson.

[MyPrettyTiedUpMichelle]

@Blackstar  Do you happen to know what his interest in Manson was exactly (his personality or his crime, or the media's interest in him?) or where it stemmed from? 

I'm fascinated myself by his interest in J. D. Salinger and Catcher In The Rye and was really surprised to learn that he was very anti-Catcher and thought the book should have been banned from the high school curriculum as a set text i.e. one the whole class reads.  I still don't know exactly why he objects to the book as much as he does, or rather, I just don't agree with his point of view on it I guess.  It's amazing to me that he wrote Catcher based on that premise.  I absolutely devoured his explanation of his approach to reading it, processing it and then turning it into the song because it gave a really specific and quite rare insight into own creative process.  

Slash said he 'sees what he sings' and I thought with Catcher he seemed to absorb it completely almost like method acting.  Like he becomes someone else?

And then he threw the book away and didn't think of it any longer.  I wonder if he has these little obsessions that fuel him creatively and once he's used up all the fuel he moves on to something else?  I also wonder if Erin and Stephanie weren't a bit like that to him - was he more obsessed, than in love with them?

Sorry, thinking to myself now and rambling. ...not just aiming this post at @Blackstar by the way.  If anyone has opinions on this...I'd be interested to know...!

Edited January 6, 2018 by MyPrettyTiedUpMichelle

[Gabrielaerojas]

41 minutes ago, MyPrettyTiedUpMichelle said:

 I wonder if he has these little obsessions that fuel him creatively and once he's used up all the fuel he moves on to something else?

I wouldn’t doubt it. Who can we ask on Twitter?  

[Tori72]

1 hour ago, Blackstar said:

Of course Axl knew who Manson was. He didn't claim he didn't know anyway.

Someone here on the forum has posted a story from when Appetite was recorded. A member of another band that was rehearsing at the same studio was fascinated with Manson and doing research on him (he has written a book too). He said they were talking with Axl and he had shown great interest on Manson.

Oh of course he knew who Manson was. What I meant was that he claimed he didn’t know the song on Spaghetti was Manson‘s. In my post before I confused it with thinking he didn’t know it was Manson on his shirts.

Whatever. Nevermind me . Bottom line: I’m confused and Axll knew who Manson was, what he looked like and also that it was his song. 

[janrichmond]

3 minutes ago, Tori72 said:

What I meant was that he claimed he didn’t know the song on Spaghetti was Manson‘s.

He lies, Axl Rose lies!!!

[MyPrettyTiedUpMichelle]

14 minutes ago, Gabrielaerojas said:

I wouldn’t doubt it. Who can we ask on Twitter?  

Haha! Out of likes.  We gotta make more use of Twitter for investigative purposes.  

[Ratam]

11 minutes ago, janrichmond said:

He lies, Axl Rose lies!!!

Same Slash

[Georgina Arriaga]

I have been in Instagram and I didn't know that Slaxl is truly alive there....one account has drawings  that oh my God! In my mind I never went there...

One of Meegan's daughters put an Instastory in Slash's closet ( my house size) he has hundreds, hundreds of black shirts.

[Blackstar]

52 minutes ago, MyPrettyTiedUpMichelle said:

@Blackstar  Do you happen to know what his interest in Manson was exactly (his personality or his crime, or the media's interest in him?) or where it stemmed from? 

I don't know, the member who posted the information (the post here) didn't say more about it, except that Nikolas Schreck, the guy who did research on Manson, has mentioned it in an interview that is on youtube. There are lots of interviews of him though that are hours long. Judging from what I read about Schreck and his book (his position is that Manson was demonised and unjustly persecuted), my guess is that Axl's interest in Manson had mostly to do with the way he was publicly perceived.

6 minutes ago, Tori72 said:

of course he knew who Manson was. What I meant was that he claimed he didn’t know the song on Spaghetti was Manson‘s. In my post before I confused it with thinking he didn’t know it was Manson on his shirts.

Whatever. Nevermind me . Bottom line: I’m confused and Axll knew who Manson was, what he looked like and also that it was his song. 

In the press release he said he knew the song was performed and recorded by Manson, but thought it wasn't written by him but by Dennis Wilson (who had recorded another Manson song but credited himself as the writer).

Oddly enough, one of the things we do up at my house is have "Name That Artist" contests where we play obscure songs and everyone tries to name the artist. My brother Stuart found Look At Your Game, Girl at a large record chain and, needless to say, he won that round. Personally, I liked the lyrics and the melody of the song. Hearing it shocked me and I thought there might be other people who would like to hear it.

It is my understanding that the song was written by Dennis Wilson. To what extent Charles Manson is involved in the publishing, I'm not aware.

Axl is vague about when that contest took place.

 

[Gabrielaerojas]

18 minutes ago, Georgina Arriaga said:

I have been in Instagram and I didn't know that Slaxl is truly alive there....one account has drawings  that oh my God! In my mind I never went there...

One of Meegan's daughters put an Instastory in Slash's closet ( my house size) he has hundreds, hundreds of black shirts.

I need to see that account 

[Blackstar]

1 hour ago, MyPrettyTiedUpMichelle said:

I'm fascinated myself by his interest in J. D. Salinger and Catcher In The Rye and was really surprised to learn that he was very anti-Catcher and thought the book should have been banned from the high school curriculum as a set text i.e. one the whole class reads.  I still don't know exactly why he objects to the book as much as he does, or rather, I just don't agree with his point of view on it I guess.  It's amazing to me that he wrote Catcher based on that premise.  I absolutely devoured his explanation of his approach to reading it, processing it and then turning it into the song because it gave a really specific and quite rare insight into own creative process.  

Slash said he 'sees what he sings' and I thought with Catcher he seemed to absorb it completely almost like method acting.  Like he becomes someone else?

And then he threw the book away and didn't think of it any longer.  I wonder if he has these little obsessions that fuel him creatively and once he's used up all the fuel he moves on to something else?  I also wonder if Erin and Stephanie weren't a bit like that to him - was he more obsessed, than in love with them?

Sorry, thinking to myself now and rambling. ...not just aiming this post at @Blackstar by the way.  If anyone has opinions on this...I'd be interested to know...!

That was what I thought too. No one can be in his mind, of course, but I'm not sure he was totally honest in his explanation of the song. I think it wasn't coincidental that he gave such an analytical insight on this particular song, while he was vague about other songs. I see there an effort to convince people that he's distanced or completely detached from the speaker/character in the song, that he's not absorbed by or identifies with him; and also that he doesn't identify or has something in common with Salinger (as some people had assumed).

[dgnr]

2 hours ago, MyPrettyTiedUpMichelle said:

I'm fascinated myself by his interest in J. D. Salinger and Catcher In The Rye and was really surprised to learn that he was very anti-Catcher and thought the book should have been banned from the high school curriculum as a set text i.e. one the whole class reads.  I still don't know exactly why he objects to the book as much as he does, or rather, I just don't agree with his point of view on it I guess.  It's amazing to me that he wrote Catcher based on that premise.  I absolutely devoured his explanation of his approach to reading it, processing it and then turning it into the song because it gave a really specific and quite rare insight into own creative process.  

Do you know where I can find this explanation of his point of view of The Catcher In the Rye? I'm an avid reader, and Catcher is my favorite book ever. I read that shit in one night and one morning, my eyes were burning but I just couldn't stop  The book has a special place in my bookcase and I have a copy of its cover with a quote in my bedroom wall so I will never agree with whatever Axl had to say about the book, but I'm really interested to read his opinion on it.

[GuitarFanfromNYC]

55 minutes ago, Gabrielaerojas said:

I need to see that account 

It's ok_poodle which is meegan's daughter's Scarlett's account.  

[Blackstar]

@dgnr

- Hi Axl, this is so great of you to do this for us all\Well my question on the other thread, which I will ask again here is:How much does the book 'Catcher in the Rye' inform the song, or is is soley referring to Chapman?

Axl: For me the song is inspired by what's referred to sometimes as Holden Caulfield syndrome. I feel there's a possibility that how the writing is structured with the thinking of the main character could somehow reprogram for lack of a better word some who may be a bit more vulnerable, with a skewed way of thinking and tried to allow myself to go what may be there or somewhat close during the verses. I'd think for most those lines are enjoyed as just venting, blowing off steam, humor or some type of entertainment where it may be how others seriously live in their minds. The bridge b4 the solo is an artistic interpretation of a institutionalized mind.

The outro is a tribute to Lennon and an indictment of the author for writing what i feel is utter garbage and I agree whole heartedly that it should be discontinued as required reading in schools. That's my take, I could be completely wrong, I do realize that the song and title could have the next poor soul reading the book and feeling inspired to make an unfortunate statement. So there's the catch I guess. When I came up with the focus, I got a call from the director of Imagine wanting a bunch of money to make a documentary, had a guy sending me strange packages about Lennon and serial killers etc and the web started calling me Salinger w/no one knowing what I was writing. I figured I was on the right track at least for a song.

...

- Axl, I'd just like to say I feel that you have captured the mood and feel of J.D Sallinger's 'The Catcher In The Rye' perfectly. Why did you chose this book to reference as regards to Chinese Democracy. On a related note, What are your five favourite books?
Axl: Ok, I've never actually tried to put this into words this way before and this'll probably get me in trouble with someone but here goes... The piano started while watching a documentary or A&E type show on Chapman and wanting to write something for Lennon and his family. W/the book it started as fascination and curiosity with Holden Caufield Syndrome and what was or could possibly be in the book that obviously certain vulnerable people have seemed to become so passionate about and resort to outrageous public attempts or acts of violence. That and the question most have in regard to Lennon's death...why? Can't say I have those answers but I feel our song pays the emotional tribute to John Lennon in the end that I'd wanted to write since the night he was killed and also since first listening to Elton and Bernie's Empty Garden.

I read the book. I fell into a deep dark sleep. Went to the studio and sang as a joke what I refer to as the Holden parts off the top of my head and felt at the time at least imo I had stumbled on a way of thinking that had a pattern and a flow but was broken up like a television station going out and coming back slightly off course intermittently and not making sense with it's earlier portion. Where this unease helped to justify or even demand taking action and feeling the power of taking that action against whoever your mind felt was somehow involved or the root of this unease and alienation. Accompanied by a calming surreal almost religious (but totally insane) vibe I think that if some were to experience having limited capabilities, insecurities or are mentally and emotionally challenged in some way could find a false sense of solace and take comfort in like being on some type of drugs or meds but with an added completely false sense of an imagined calling or purpose. It certainly could and very well often would feel better than some individuals real world or having to experience or live with a clearer perspective of their true reality...

All of which of course could be imagined and hooked together by events like Lennon's murder, reading the book, wanting to write a song about someone being insane, John Lennon, Chapman, people shooting people and watching Mel Gibson's Conspiracy! And when I got home not in any dramatic way but more like cleaning off the dinner table I threw my book away. Don't know if any of that's really what any of that's about but that's how it hit me and just like an instant cake we got the basis for a song.

The Stand, A Scanner Darkly, The Mutant King, The Zodiac, Mary Shelley's Frankenstein.

http://www.a-4-d.com/t155-catcher-in-the-rye

[dgnr]

Wow, thank you @Blackstar! You're the best with this kind of information as always  He  really didn't fancy the book, ah? Throwing the book away, you blasphemous  I can see where he's coming from though, with the Holden syndrome and how you can have that kind of perspective on the book if you're in a vulnerable place. Catcher is definitely a book that always cause an impression on people. Good or bad. Or completely insane, in case of Chapman.  I must also say that I always thought that his changing of the quote If a body catch a body to How a body took a body was very clever from him. Wanting it or not I think he did capture some of the book message on CITR lyrics. 

And I leave with this guy's quote on Twitter after GNR announced the reunion. Change these shows with new music 

 

Edited January 7, 2018 by dgnr

[Georgina Arriaga]

Thank you @Blackstar that was a very fascinating read to say the least....I loved the book, I read years ago....

Slash in the studio:

 

Another one:

 

Edited January 7, 2018 by Georgina Arriaga

[marlingrl03]

6 hours ago, GuitarFanfromNYC said:

It's ok_poodle which is meegan's daughter's Scarlett's account.  

Right...but her account is the one which showed the instastory of Slashs shirt and not the Slaxl I assume?? I hope anyways lol!  I think that's the one @Gabrielaerojas wanted to know about? Am I right? ; )

[purplestargirl]

37 minutes ago, marlingrl03 said:

Right...but her account is the one which showed the instastory of Slashs shirt and not the Slaxl I assume?? I hope anyways lol!  I think that's the one @Gabrielaerojas wanted to know about? Am I right? ; )

You're correct. I saw that Instastory as well.

 

[MyPrettyTiedUpMichelle]

9 hours ago, dgnr said:

Do you know where I can find this explanation of his point of view of The Catcher In the Rye? I'm an avid reader, and Catcher is my favorite book ever. I read that shit in one night and one morning, my eyes were burning but I just couldn't stop  The book has a special place in my bookcase and I have a copy of its cover with a quote in my bedroom wall so I will never agree with whatever Axl had to say about the book, but I'm really interested to read his opinion on it.

I like the book, too.  I don't get Axl's point of view on it.  It really surprises me that he'd advocate censorship of any kind regarding art or literature.  I mean, hello, Axl, One In A Million?  Anyway, the book and its connection with Chapman obviously affected Axl a lot, so I tend to think it's more about his personal fears and insecurities, than his concern for the millions of high schools kid and the 'dangerous' literature they might be subject to.

Edit: Sorry wrong quote of yours! haha! I mean to quote your other post.

And thanks @Blackstar for posting the article. 

Edited January 7, 2018 by MyPrettyTiedUpMichelle

[Padme]

1 hour ago, MyPrettyTiedUpMichelle said:

I like the book, too.  I don't get Axl's point of view on it.  It really surprises me that he'd advocate censorship of any kind regarding art or literature.  I mean, hello, Axl, One In A Million?  Anyway, the book and its connection with Chapman obviously affected Axl a lot, so I tend to think it's more about his personal fears and insecurities, than his concern for the millions of high schools kid and the 'dangerous' literature they might be subject to.

Edit: Sorry wrong quote of yours! haha! I mean to quote your other post.

And thanks @Blackstar for posting the article. 

I also read that book and I didn't like it. I don't get Axl's point of view either. The book has nothing to do with killing a rock star. The book is about adolencent behaviour. All the book did was to adress that issue. The thing is at the time the book was written it was a rarity to talk about teens and growing up

[MyPrettyTiedUpMichelle]

3 minutes ago, Padme said:

I also read that book and I didn't like it. I don't get Axl's point of view either. The book has nothing to do with killing a rock star. The book is about adolencent behaviour. All the book did was to adress that issue. The thing is at the time the book was written it was a rarity to talk about teens and growing up

Exactly.   I suppose Axl's point was that the unstable Chapman thought he was just like Holden Caulfield and that it was somehow his 'duty' to rid the world of the 'phoney' John Lennon?  But still, it makes no sense for Axl to condemn the book because of the actions of one unstable man.  Interestingly, I looked it up on Wiki and it turns out the book has been banned by some libraries and parent/teacher groups for 'glorifying rebellion' but that would make even less sense where Axl is concerned! 

[Padme]

11 minutes ago, MyPrettyTiedUpMichelle said:

Exactly.   I suppose Axl's point was that the unstable Chapman thought he was just like Holden Caulfield and that it was somehow his 'duty' to rid the world of the 'phoney' John Lennon?  But still, it makes no sense for Axl to condemn the book because of the actions of one unstable man.  Interestingly, I looked it up on Wiki and it turns out the book has been banned by some libraries and parent/teacher groups for 'glorifying rebellion' but that would make even less sense where Axl is concerned! 

The guy killed Lennon because of The Beatles break up. I don't think the book is glorifying anything except boredom. But pop culture is always to blame for everything.  At least that's what the media does. So Chapman had the book in his pocket. Let's blame the book! 

[MyPrettyTiedUpMichelle]

25 minutes ago, Oldest Goat said:

Is the book universally thought of as being about adolescence?  Well, fuck. That makes me feel like an immature loser lol because I really relate to that book on a profound level. In a certain way, the way it was written is how I think and talk and even feel about many things.
 

There are other themes as well.  It's literally been about 20 years since I last read the novel but I took away from it themes of isolation, feeling 'different' from everyone else and feeling disillusioned with a sort of 'contrived' lifestyle (and contrived people aka the phoneys) that 'society', for want of a better phrase, puts upon the individual.  Reading any book is very personal, no two people will have the exact same reading experience which is as it should be.  I mean, I learned something new just now with what @Padme mentioned.

@Padme  Good point about glorifying boredom! ha! Never thought of it like that before.  

[Blackstar]

3 hours ago, MyPrettyTiedUpMichelle said:

I like the book, too.  I don't get Axl's point of view on it.  It really surprises me that he'd advocate censorship of any kind regarding art or literature.  I mean, hello, Axl, One In A Million?  Anyway, the book and its connection with Chapman obviously affected Axl a lot, so I tend to think it's more about his personal fears and insecurities, than his concern for the millions of high schools kid and the 'dangerous' literature they might be subject to.

I liked the book too.

And yes, there is something very off and... un-Axliish about Axl's point of view, even to the point that makes me think that it might not be completely genuine and that he took this extreme position to be provocative. When there was talk about rock and metal leading teenagers to suicide etc. and the controversy with Tipper Gore and the parental advisory labels on records he had expressed himself very clearly against all that. And yes, of course, One In A Million (although he admitted later that he couldn't think of the powerful negative effect it might have to people). And now he thought that this book could have that kind of effect to teenagers so they shouldn't read it?

Or he thought that if he had read it as a teenager (I guess he hadn't) it would have influenced him that much that he would identify in a bad way? Also the time he wrote the song he was into writing, as he said, about "healing"; and he believed in "bad energy" and such, so it might have to do with that too.

Edited January 7, 2018 by Blackstar

[Ratam]

1 hour ago, MyPrettyTiedUpMichelle said:

Exactly.   I suppose Axl's point was that the unstable Chapman thought he was just like Holden Caulfield and that it was somehow his 'duty' to rid the world of the 'phoney' John Lennon?  But still, it makes no sense for Axl to condemn the book because of the actions of one unstable man.  Interestingly, I looked it up on Wiki and it turns out the book has been banned by some libraries and parent/teacher groups for 'glorifying rebellion' but that would make even less sense where Axl is concerned! 

Yes, very rare , Axl always hated all type of censorship 😞