Article About Izzy/Guns on the Wall Street Journal

[Modano09]

43 minutes ago, tremolo said:

Yeah, things like always showing up to work.

I don’t care about how he lives his life, and I don’t see how that would matter anyway cause it never interfered with his work.

Izzy stayed away from the press, fame, public life, etc, being in the spotlight was not his cup of tea. But being away in the middle of nowhere growing avocados didn’t stop him from making music and releasing it. You will say “he didn’t tour!”. I say “did he ever say he would and then didn’t show up because his eccentric flaky personality dictated he had to be in another place watching a basketball game?”

Axl on the other hand... is it necessary to make a list to compare? We’ve all witnessed the whole thing.

Well when you pick and choose when you work and don't work all that much it's not hard to show up for it. 

Nobody's saying Izzy doesn't show up for work - they're saying he doesn't commit to more work than he wants to do and a multi-year World Tour doesn't sound like the kind of thing he'd be dying to do - unless the "loot" was to his liking. 

 

 

[SoulMonster]

The band would also say he didn't show up for work or showed up unprepared. They complained about him not showing up for video shoots for Don't Cry and You Could Be Mine. They complained about him leaving immediately after shows. They complained about him not doing his work in the studio when recording UYIs (like "pulling fucking teeth"), and they complained about him being unprepared for shows both in 1991 and when he replaced Gilby for shows in 1993. Basically, they called him out as unprofessional and unreliable; doing as little as possible, without actually skipping shows.

Edited May 28, 2018 by SoulMonster

[DieselDaisy]

Izzy was and always will be the coolest member of Guns N' Roses. 

[SoulMonster]

With GN'R it is almost like fans have to have a hero. Someone to root for. One guy that is their guy and as a consequence the rest are the bad guys. And for many that obvious choice is Izzy. I have to admit I am partial to him too, at least because of his musicianship and the fact that he is so true to himself. But he is no unblemished hero. He is no superman. He sold heroin and peed in a plane. He bolted instead of confronting the band. He is in it for money. He doesn't care about his fans. He has his weaknesses as everyone else. The rest of the band. You. Me. Maybe not as obvious as the flaws of Axl but not enough to idolize the fellow, in my opinion. All this worshipping of GN'R members is a bit strange, they way I see it they are all pretty flawed (some in spectacular ways), but they made fantastic music we all love and that's why we are here.

[DieselDaisy]

 Impeccable timing, Izzy departing before the dreadful videos and Tracy and Roberta era. He got out of the band when they turned wank. 

[Padme]

4 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

With GN'R it is almost like fans have to have a hero. Someone to root for. One guy that is their guy and as a consequence the rest are the bad guys. And for many that obvious choice is Izzy. I have to admit I am partial to him too, at least because of his musicianship and the fact that he is so true to himself. But he is no unblemished hero. He is no superman. He sold heroin and peed in a plane. He bolted instead of confronting the band. He is in it for money. He doesn't care about his fans. He has his weaknesses as everyone else. The rest of the band. You. Me. Maybe not as obvious as the flaws of Axl but not enough to idolize the fellow, in my opinion. All this worshipping of GN'R members is a bit strange, they way I see it they are all pretty flawed (some in spectacular ways), but they made fantastic music we all love and that's why we are here.

When they announced the reunion. I was the happiest person in the world. And I was rooting for Axl, Slash and Duff. It is not about having a hero. It is about point out things that could be better or different. And I won't turn a blind eye to things that happened in the past. And things still happening now. Nobody is saying Izzy is a saint. But I give credit where credit is due. Izzy played a huge role when it comes to songwriting. He was there from day one. Not only he plays guitar but he can sing as well. And I find it sad that people are accussing him of being greedy or being unreliable. I'm not asking you to love Izzy. Just don't put him dowm because it's unfair

[Blackstar]

2 hours ago, Padme said:

I don't care what you think and your "subconsciously" spin off. I care about what they wrote in their books.

Maybe you care about what Izzy himself said about the 1993 shows, then:

Quote

Yet, despite his relief at being out of the GN'R psycho-circus, Izzy amazingly agreed to return in May to play five dates with the band (including the two gigs at the Milton Keynes National Bowl), standing in for his successor, Gilby Clarke, who had broken his arm. It would seem strange to many that, having been cured of his 'affliction', he would voluntarily re-admit himself to the insane asylum...

"Well Axl was the one who called me and asked if I would do it. I was home working on my bikes when I got the call. I thought about it for a couple of days, and then said that I'd do it for those five dates. Why did I go back? Well, I just saw it as a free holiday, really. I got to go to countries like Israel and Greece where I'd never been before."

But Izzy's return to the ranks was never likely to be made permanent; and he found things unchanged since he'd first walked out.

"We never talked about me returning full-time to GN'R. And, quite frankly, it wouldn't be something that I'd consider in the slightest. Honestly, nothing had changed. Going back into the band was a strange and uncomfortable experience on the whole. It was cool in a way to be able to step back into comething I'd left behind and to judge whether anything had improved, but I just found that it hadn't. It made me realise why I was glad to get out in the first place.

"The band's egos are way out of control. Axl and Slash had the same attitude towards me as they did before I left, and there is a feeling of unreality about them. They lead isolated lives and don't seem to be in touch anymore with the real world. I spent all my time hanging out with the roadies. You know how many times i saw any of the band offstage? Once, that was Slash in London!

http://www.a-4-d.com/t2888-1993-mm-dd-interview-with-izzy

Quote

 

It's simple. I'd returned to Indiana, I lived peacefully, and one day, Axl called me. He asked me whether, effectively, I could help them on some concerts. I asked where these shows would take place, and it answered in Istanbul, in Athens, in London... you think that I hesitated (laughter)?! I love to travel and see new countries! Besides, Alan Niven, my manager, who was also that of Guns in the beginning, explained to me that the band still owed me some money. He advised me to accept to make them pay what they still owed me. It's only afterwards that I realized that Alan was going to get 20% of this sum (laughter)! I did these shows and I didn't enjoy myself a lot because Duff and Slash were always still wasted. I don't want to pretend I'm a saint, 'cause I did everything, but when you're clean, there's nothing funny about seeing your friends like that.

http://www.a-4-d.com/t1653-2001-06-dd-interview-izzy

Quote

Nevertheless, Izzy did return briefly to the Gunners, in 1993. after Gilby Clarke, his short-lived replacement, busted his hand in a dirt bike accident. For the fans, it was a welcome return for one of the original members. For Izzy, “it was weird. We toured Greece, Istanbul, London – I liked that side of it, seeing some places I’d never seen.” But that was the only thing he did like about it. After he’d left the band, he had “a big shit load of money sitting somewhere [for me] and they weren’t paying me [it]. I don’t know the deal was, some kind of legal bullshit.” Funds, he claims, which were only released after he agreed to come back temporarily. “Money was a big sore point. I did the dates just for salary. I mean, I helped start this band…” Up comes the guitar again. A flurry of angry notes ensue. These were his final shows with Guns N’ Roses. He left without saying goodbye. “I didn’t actually say ‘see you’ cos they were all fucked up. Duff and these guys, they didn’t even recognise me. It was really bizarre. It was like playing with zombies. Ah, man, it was just horrible. Nobody was laughing anymore…”

http://www.a-4-d.com/t2673-2001-xxdd-classic-rock-interview-with-izzy

Or about what Gilby said:

Quote

K!: Were you freaked out when you bust your arm and Izzy filled in for you on a bunch of European dates last year?

G: "A little bit. But I was so drugged up I didn't really notice it!

"Yeah, it was really strange, but when it first came up I was literally still in a hospital bed. I'd just gotten my wrist reset. And that's when they brought it up. 'Well, we can't cancel the tour. Who are we gonna get to play guitar?'. And I'm like, 'Wait a minute...'. And so they came up with the Izzy idea.

"In the back of my head I was going, 'Well, I don't think that's a very good idea', because what if Axl goes, `Hey, this is kinda cool, let's just get Izzy back'. But it didn't happen that way.

"It was nice - as soon as I got home, Izzy called me and we talked for a while. He just did it to see the guys, cos he hadn't seen 'em in a while. And then it was funny because I had Izzy on one line going, `When are you coming back? I gotta get out of here!', and Slash was on the other line going, `When are you coming back. We gotta get him out of here!.' It was the funniest thing.

http://www.a-4-d.com/t607-1994-05-24-interview-with-gilby

It wasn't nice.

Edited May 28, 2018 by Blackstar

[bikka]

24 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

The band would also say he didn't show up for work or showed up unprepared. They complained about him not showing up for video shoots for Don't Cry and You Could Be Mine. They complained about him leaving immediately after shows. They complained about him not doing his work in the studio when recording UYIs (like "pulling fucking teeth"), and they complained about him being unprepared for shows both in 1991 and when he replaced Gilby for shows in 1993. Basically, they called him out as unprofessional and unreliable; doing as little as possible, without actually skipping shows.

Guess who didn't come for rehearsal in those 93 shows... By your 'quotes' it must have been Izzy, lol! So unprepared, so unprofessional.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lU9zo2fcAh8&feature=youtu.be&t=143

As someone else said earlier - it's just Axl projecting his own guilt on others.

 

[Padme]

6 minutes ago, Blackstar said:

Maybe you care about what Izzy himself said about the 1993 shows, then:

Quote

Thanks for trying harder. I already knew that. You can post a book about Izzy's behaviour and how he is such huge asshole in your eyes. And all the "horrible" things he did. You would be wasting your time. When it comes to GN'R. I will never pick anyone else as rithym guitar and songwriter over Izzy

[lame ass security]

Coldplay is number 3 on that Billboard list? That's insane.

[bikka]

3 hours ago, SoulMonster said:

I suppose we have a parallel to our current situation back in 1991 when Izzy was leaving GN'R. Axl tried to make him stay:

Axl: There were stipulations, though. If he was going to do like the old Izzy did, he wasn't going to make as much money. It was like "You're not giving an equal share." Slash and I were having to do too much work to keep the attention and the energy up in the crowd. You're onstage going, "This is really hard, and I'm into it and I'm doing it, but that guy just gets to stand there" [Axl Rose: The Rolling Stone Interview; Rolling Stone, April 1992]

Quote

"It was made clear to me by Axl that he and Slash would steer the machine, control the videos, the direction of the band, everything, and that I had to put up or step out," Stradlin says. "So I said, `Fine, I'll go home and paint."'

And in 1994 Izzy stepped in when Gilby had a broken hand and Slash said the following:

Slash: Then right towards the end he turned around and did certain things that were so fucked. Right towards the fifth date, because of his hand Gilby still wasn't sure if he was going to be able to play, and Izzy all of a sudden turned around and stabbed us in the back again, asked for an amazing amount of money to do one show - it's like, 'I can't believe this, go home!' [Kerrang! March 1994]

Quote

Besides, Alan Niven, my manager, who was also that of Guns in the beginning, explained to me that the band still owed me some money. He advised me to accept to make them pay what they still owed me. It's only afterwards that I
realized that Alan was going to get 20% of this sum (laughter)!

 

Lol at Axl's "stipulations" and Slash being backstabbed. According to Duff's book they didn't earn money because of all the late start fees, no wonder it hurt to have to pay what they've owed for over 2 years.

 

[Blackstar]

2 minutes ago, Padme said:

Thanks for trying harder. I already knew that. You can post a book about Izzy's behaviour and how he is such huge asshole in your eyes. And all the "horrible" things he did. You would be wasting your time. When it comes to GN'R. I will never pick anyone else as rithym guitar and songwriter over Izzy

Lol, I only posted a couple of Izzy quotes to point out that the relationship between them wasn't good in 1993. You must be very tired

[RussTCB]

Wait. Jason Isbell and Izzy are related?? If so, I never made that connection. 

[Padme]

Just now, Blackstar said:

Lol, I only posted a couple of Izzy quotes to point out that the relationship between them wasn't good in 1993. You must be very tired

Why did you assum I never read anything Izzy said nor anything somebody else might say? Sorry, but I find it kinda childish from your part that you spent time making a larger than life post about things that Izzy said or did. 

[Modano09]

 

 

19 minutes ago, Padme said:

When they announced the reunion. I was the happiest person in the world. And I was rooting for Axl, Slash and Duff. It is not about having a hero. It is about point out things that could be better or different. And I won't turn a blind eye to things that happened in the past. And things still happening now. Nobody is saying Izzy is a saint. But I give credit where credit is due. Izzy played a huge role when it comes to songwriting. He was there from day one. Not only he plays guitar but he can sing as well. And I find it sad that people are accussing him of being greedy or being unreliable. I'm not asking you to love Izzy. Just don't put him dowm because it's unfair

It's also unfair to expect Axl, Slash and Duff to make whatever concessions they have to make to give you what you personally want to see and then get mad at them if they don't. It's also unfair to blatantly ignore any decades long pattern of personality and behavior because you need a bad guy to blame for you not getting what you want and you want that bad guy to be who you decide it is.

[Modano09]

22 minutes ago, bikka said:

Guess who didn't come for rehearsal in those 93 shows... By your 'quotes' it must have been Izzy, lol! So unprepared, so unprofessional.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lU9zo2fcAh8&feature=youtu.be&t=143

As someone else said earlier - it's just Axl projecting his own guilt on others.

 

Ever notice how anytime a conversation veers towards looking at Izzy or Adler's flaws and how they could be responsible for their own exclusion it turns into "BUT AXL! BUT AXL!!"

[Padme]

2 minutes ago, Modano09 said:

 

 

It's also unfair to expect Axl, Slash and Duff to make whatever concessions they have to make to give you what you personally want to see and then get mad at them if they don't. It's also unfair to blatantly ignore any decades long pattern of personality and behavior because you need a bad guy to blame for you not getting what you want and you want that bad guy to be who you decide it is.

Yes dude whatever you say 

[Blackstar]

Just now, Padme said:

Why did you assum I never read anything Izzy said nor anything somebody else might say? Sorry, but I find it kinda childish from your part that you spent time making a larger than life post about things that Izzy said or did. 

Well, you selectively referenced sources (the books) about certain events in 1993. And I pointed out that all the other sources about the same events, including Izzy himself, contradict Slash's book. I didn't post about "things Izzy said or did", only what he said about that specifically. Probably you didn't even read what I posted exactly.

If you choose to believe only the book and ignore everything else, that's fine.

[Padme]

3 minutes ago, Blackstar said:

Well, you selectively referenced sources (the books) about certain events in 1993. And I pointed out that all the other sources about the same events, including Izzy himself, contradict Slash's book. I didn't post about "things Izzy said or did", only what he said about that specifically. Probably you didn't even read what I posted exactly.

If you choose to believe only the book and ignore everything else, that's fine.

Of course I didn't waste time reading that thing. Please next time make it shorter

[Modano09]

4 minutes ago, Padme said:

Yes dude whatever you say 

The very article we're commenting on refers to Izzy preferring to remain "untethered" which you somehow interpret as Izzy being totally down for multiple years of world touring and the second comments from Izzy that suggest he didn't take part because of money, which you interpret as him barely wanting any money at all but those 3 bastards wouldn't give it to him.

[Blackstar]

1 minute ago, Padme said:

Of course I didn't waste time reading that thing. Please next time make it shorter

Don't read then, no problem. It's not a pm and I don't post only for you.

[Lio]

1 minute ago, Modano09 said:

The very article we're commenting on refers to Izzy preferring to remain "untethered" which you somehow interpret as Izzy being totally down for multiple years of world touring and the second comments from Izzy that suggest he didn't take part because of money, which you interpret as him barely wanting any money at all but those 3 bastards wouldn't give it to him.

Yes, it is funny that that is what I took from it all. I'm sure money played a part, but in the end, Izzy wants to be untethered.

If I hadn't been on the forum for years, I would've been surprised how everyone is ignoring that particular sentence. But it doesn't fit the narrative, and the fact that Izzy doesn't like touring, especially not if it's a 'circus', gets conveniently swept under the carpet here all the time.

[Legendador]

I don't understand why people need to attack Axl to defend Izzy?

Izzy chose not to be a part of the reunion tour, so did Matt Sorum.

Steven chose to be a part of it even being paid less to nothing if compared to the others.

Izzy is not a part of the partnership agreement that involves Duff, Slash and Axl.

Izzy did not only sold his share of the name, but also he got out of the rights partnership, but still he wants to be paid exactly the same.

Everybody says Izzy is not reliable and would not commit to a full tour, so why pay him the same exact amount?

Izzy didn't want to be a part of that.

[Modano09]

1 minute ago, Lio said:

Yes, it is funny that that is what I took from it all. I'm sure money played a part, but in the end, Izzy wants to be untethered.

If I hadn't been on the forum for years, I would've been surprised how everyone is ignoring that particular sentence. But it doesn't fit the narrative, and the fact that Izzy doesn't like touring, especially not if it's a 'circus', gets conveniently swept under the carpet here all the time.

They've been at it over 2 years now and they keep adding legs, agreeing to tour the world indefinitely seems a pretty drastic departure from the way Izzy's known to be. 

 

 

[bikka]

22 minutes ago, Modano09 said:

Ever notice how anytime a conversation veers towards looking at Izzy or Adler's flaws and how they could be responsible for their own exclusion it turns into "BUT AXL! BUT AXL!!"

Have you actually looked at the vid? Izzy was NOT unprepared or unprofessional about these shows. The fact that Axl was is just a reminder, because, really, everyone knows it by now right?