The "New Album" Thread . The maybe, possibly, at some point, soon, whenever, wtf Axl thread🤞

[Voodoochild]

7 minutes ago, GNR_RNR said:

Nah again you underestimate the sales of physical media.

The RIAA's report fom last year only covers the US. Which while they are a large market are far from the whole story in terms of sales. And on top of that you have to account for younger listeners (almost all streaming/vinyl) and older listeners (much more likely to buy additional formats).

And no one is arguing the hardcore fans matter, that GNR will generate more money from physical sales is just a simple observations based on the demographics they attract.

It's absolutely the right move to delay an album release right now (assuming they had one ready). You only get one chance to release an album and to release one now just doesn't make sense.

You'd choke the initial sales week and in the process you'd subvert the physical sales.

Now what they could do would be announce a new album and open pre-orders, or release a single online and announce greatest hits part 2.

I'm not underestimating. It's just a fact. 

I posted RIAA's report because it was the most current one I found. Global sales report are only from 2018, and even then, things didn't look good for physical media:

Physical revenue declined by 10.1%, now accounting for around a quarter of the overall market. 

Source: https://www.ifpi.org/facts-and-stats.php

I should remind you that the biggest streaming services like Spotify and even Apple Music both have only growing numbers since then. 

Yes, you were arguing that the hardcore fans matter in this case. You said:  "GNR's older fanbase will buy physical copies at a much higher rate (be they CD or Vinyl)."

 

Again, there are some artists who delayed their albums. Others like Dua Lipa (huge nowadays) and even some who didn't release anything in years, like Pearl Jam and Fiona Apple, are releasing new albums right now. The "initial sales week" doesn't matter as much anymore.

[GNR_RNR]

2 minutes ago, Voodoochild said:

I'm not underestimating. It's just a fact. 

I posted RIAA's report because it was the most current one I found. Global sales report are only from 2018, and even then, things didn't look good for physical media:

Physical revenue declined by 10.1%, now accounting for around a quarter of the overall market. 

Source: https://www.ifpi.org/facts-and-stats.php

I should remind you that the biggest streaming services like Spotify and even Apple Music both have only growing numbers since then. 

Yes, you were arguing that the hardcore fans matter in this case. You said:  "GNR's older fanbase will buy physical copies at a much higher rate (be they CD or Vinyl)."

 

Again, there are some artists who delayed their albums. Others like Dua Lipa (huge nowadays) and even some who didn't release anything in years, like Pearl Jam and Fiona Apple, are releasing new albums right now. The "initial sales week" doesn't matter as much anymore.

Ofc physical media sales have declined (although if you look at the RIAA report physical revenues were up some 5% or so in 2019 in the US). No one argues that physical media makes up a minority of music revenues. Hell the fact that touring makes more money that all of that is why we're still seeing the likes of GNR and the Stones touring now.

And no you misunderstand what "GNR's older fanbase" referred to. Their fanbase, both casual and hardcore, tend older and as such include large numbers of physical media buyers.

Yes I've referred to what artists are still releasing albums during the pandemic. Dua Lipa released her album because her fans are A) younger and more likely to only stream it and B) pop fans that are also more likely to only stream an album. Though I should add that she also sells a good physical release of the album too. But GNR's older rock fans are the prime physical media consumers, there's a reason many rock acts have delayed album releases. 

By and large anyone releasing their albums during the pandemic are doing so because they are almost guaranteed success. It makes no sense to waste the first Axl & Slash collab since 1993 on a slap dash marketing campaign.

Delaying a GNR album would be the right move atm (sadly).

[RussTCB]

1 hour ago, GNR_RNR said:

Not really true. 

While streaming is by and large the de facto way people get their music in certain countries there are still huge physical numbers sold every year around the world.

And as already established GNR's older fanbase will buy physical copies at a much higher rate (be they CD or Vinyl). There's a reason that companies still release these formats, and it's not because they don't make any money. 

 

LOL, that wasn't "already established". That was just a thing you said that isn't true. 

It's a fact that music is consumed in music higher number through streaming, regardless of age of an artists fan base. 

[Sweersa]

I'm almost 30 and love having physical CDs, as I do blu-rays for movies and some TV shows.

It bothers me most newer cars don't have CD players. I like listening to whole albums. I drive a 1997 and 2005 with CD players so I'm good for a while. 

I realize I'm in the minority for my age group. 

[GNR_RNR]

9 minutes ago, RussTCB said:

LOL, that wasn't "already established". That was just a thing you said that isn't true. 

Already established., and pretty obvious to anyone paying attention to the success of the appetite remaster. 

Older people buy physical media at a greater rate than younger fans.

[RussTCB]

Just now, GNR_RNR said:

Already established., and pretty obvious to anyone paying attention to the success of the appetite remaster. 

Older people buy physical media at a greater rate than younger fans.

Do you happen to have any sources to back up the claim that 1) the Appetite remaster was "a success" or that 2) older people buy physical media more than younger fans? 

Actual, fact based sources and links would go a long way to prove facts as "already established" as opposed to just making a statement and saying it's fact. 

[jamillos]

Regardless of the fact that I listen to 99 % of my music in my PC, I would buy a physical CD, a) just to have it, since I have all of them, b) to support the band. I think there's a lot of us with the same stance. 

[Voodoochild]

16 minutes ago, GNR_RNR said:

Ofc physical media sales have declined (although if you look at the RIAA report physical revenues were up some 5% or so in 2019 in the US). No one argues that physical media makes up a minority of music revenues. Hell the fact that touring makes more money that all of that is why we're still seeing the likes of GNR and the Stones touring now.

And no you misunderstand what "GNR's older fanbase" referred to. Their fanbase, both casual and hardcore, tend older and as such include large numbers of physical media buyers.

Yes I've referred to what artists are still releasing albums during the pandemic. Dua Lipa released her album because her fans are A) younger and more likely to only stream it and B) pop fans that are also more likely to only stream an album. Though I should add that she also sells a good physical release of the album too. But GNR's older rock fans are the prime physical media consumers, there's a reason many rock acts have delayed album releases. 

By and large anyone releasing their albums during the pandemic are doing so because they are almost guaranteed success. It makes no sense to waste the first Axl & Slash collab since 1993 on a slap dash marketing campaign.

Delaying a GNR album would be the right move atm (sadly).

GNR's older fanbase is not that older than Pearl Jam's or Fiona Apple's. Did you forget I mentioned both? 

I don't get how can anyone say both are "almost guaranteed success" and a new Guns N' Roses album with Slash (and Duff) back in the band wouldn't. If anything, it would be a higher seller. Assuming we're really considering sales are important.

 

3 minutes ago, GNR_RNR said:

Already established., and pretty obvious to anyone paying attention to the success of the appetite remaster. 

Older people buy physical media at a greater rate than younger fans.

Not established, not "pretty obvious".

About the appetite remaster:

Just now, RussTCB said:

Do you happen to have any sources to back up the claim that 1) the Appetite remaster was "a success" or that 2) older people buy physical media more than younger fans? 

Actual, fact based sources and links would go a long way to prove facts as "already established" as opposed to just making a statement and saying it's fact. 

This.

[James Bond]

20 minutes ago, Sweersa said:

I'm almost 30 and love having physical CDs, as I do blu-rays for movies and some TV shows.

It bothers me most newer cars don't have CD players. I like listening to whole albums. I drive a 1997 and 2005 with CD players so I'm good for a while. 

I realize I'm in the minority for my age group. 

Before I bought my new vehicle a few years ago, I didnt trust my old clunker on a six/seven hour drive and back so I rented a car. My well intended friend brought a booklet of CDs to listen to on the drive. We quickly realized there was no CD player to be found. 😂

[MaskingApathy]

4 hours ago, thelostrose said:

We'll probably reach 300 and there will be still nothing.

 

4 hours ago, jamillos said:

At this rate, we'll probably reach Covid-21 and Covid-22, and there still will be nothing. 

I don't doubt it.

I'm in my late 20s and I still buy CDs of albums that I really like, even though I mostly use Spotify. Like I bought all of the SMKC albums when they came out but I mostly listen to them on Spotify.

[guitarpatch]

6 minutes ago, Voodoochild said:

GNR's older fanbase is not that older than Pearl Jam's or Fiona Apple's. Did you forget I mentioned both? 

I don't get how can anyone say both are "almost guaranteed success" and a new Guns N' Roses album with Slash (and Duff) back in the band wouldn't. If anything, it would be a higher seller. Assuming we're really considering sales are important.

 

Not established, not "pretty obvious".

About the appetite remaster:

This.

What are Pearl Jam’s and Fiona’s advance numbers? What is GNR’s advance to release an album? Just because the demographics are similar, it doesn’t mean the atmosphere to facilitate a release is the same. Numbers matter here 

[ThePreacher]

About that "New Rose" update? Did they play "New Rose" recently or what is the point of that? 

Axl certainly is no new, unless they mean his new look

[Nick85]

1 minute ago, ThePreacher said:

About that "New Rose" update? Did they play "New Rose" recently or what is the point of that? 

Axl certainly is no new, unless they mean his new look

It probably means about as much as Fernando's "About to drop some fire!" tweet.

[Live Like a Suicide]

20 minutes ago, jamillos said:

Regardless of the fact that I listen to 99 % of my music in my PC, I would buy a physical CD, a) just to have it, since I have all of them, b) to support the band. I think there's a lot of us with the same stance. 

I might, but i'm also tempted to just sit on YouTube and listen to any new album for free. Team Brazil has gouged enough money from fans as it is.

[GNR_RNR]

13 minutes ago, RussTCB said:

Do you happen to have any sources to back up the claim that 1) the Appetite remaster was "a success" or that 2) older people buy physical media more than younger fans? 

Actual, fact based sources and links would go a long way to prove facts as "already established" as opposed to just making a statement and saying it's fact. 

Of course:

https://yougov.co.uk/topics/lifestyle/articles-reports/2018/06/27/who-still-buys-cds-and-can-format-survive

Uk numbers but generally applicable for this purpose. Older age = higher chance of purchasing Physical media.

And as for the remaster success, just see the chart placings of the album and the relative success of shadow. 

 

12 minutes ago, Voodoochild said:

GNR's older fanbase is not that older than Pearl Jam's or Fiona Apple's. Did you forget I mentioned both? 

I don't get how can anyone say both are "almost guaranteed success" and a new Guns N' Roses album with Slash (and Duff) back in the band wouldn't. If anything, it would be a higher seller. Assuming we're really considering sales are important.

Pearl Jams record was already set to release, the gears were in motion for a release in march.

Again there are only two types of record being released at the moment.

1. Guaranteed successes (Dua Lipa, Pearl Jam)

2. Guaranteed failures (so the label can provide the pandemic as a reason for the failure)

Both are guaranteed successes because they have relatively recent records released for comparison.

Whereas aside from the remaster all GNR's label has to go off of is CD and the Vegas DVD, both of which provide 'meh' numbers.

A new GNR record is not guaranteed sales(CD showed that), and this would realistically be the best they could ever do again in terms of sales. GNR are currently a touring machine, why risk releasing a record with unneeded risk that could damage the brand of the band and as such the touring money?

 

 

 

[jamillos]

1 minute ago, Live Like a Suicide said:

I might, but i'm also tempted to just sit on YouTube and listen to any new album for free. Team Brazil has gouged enough money from fans as it is.

No doubts about that, but I'd still buy it, knowing that the band members will get way, way more money than the fucken TB. 

[Voodoochild]

2 minutes ago, guitarpatch said:

What are Pearl Jam’s and Fiona’s advance numbers? What is GNR’s advance to release an album? Just because the demographics are similar, it doesn’t mean the atmosphere to facilitate a release is the same. Numbers matter here 

What? How would I know those things? If you want to be so precise about "advance numbers", you couldn't state that the "atmosphere to facilitate a release" isn't the same either.

I'm just saying that the current situation is not an excuse to not release a GNR album. The supposed impossibility of releasing it in a physical form wouldn't be an excuse either.

[Live Like a Suicide]

Just now, jamillos said:

No doubts about that, but I'd still buy it, knowing that the band members will get way, way more money than the fucken TB. 

I mostly feel sorry for Fortus, Ferrer, Reed and Reese. No doubt they get a decent wage, but i wonder if they will get any royalties from a new album, or if Axl had them sign a contract relinquishing their rights as part of hired work. 

[guitarpatch]

Just now, Voodoochild said:

What? How would I know those things? If you want to be so precise about "advance numbers", you couldn't state that the "atmosphere to facilitate a release" isn't the same either.

I'm just saying that the current situation is not an excuse to not release a GNR album. The supposed impossibility of releasing it in a physical form wouldn't be an excuse either.

Exactly. We. Don’t. Know. How can we sit here and say what they should do and why haven’t they done what this artist did, etc without knowing the facts.  

UMG is a business. So is GNR. Both parties have to agree to release music under these circumstances alongside whatever their contract stipulates. That’s if there is even music ready to be released. 

[kanecrescente]

Are there any developments? Or is it just people bitching about CD as per...

[Voodoochild]

4 minutes ago, GNR_RNR said:

Of course:

https://yougov.co.uk/topics/lifestyle/articles-reports/2018/06/27/who-still-buys-cds-and-can-format-survive

Uk numbers but generally applicable for this purpose. Older age = higher chance of purchasing Physical media.

And as for the remaster success, just see the chart placings of the album and the relative success of shadow. 

 

Pearl Jams record was already set to release, the gears were in motion for a release in march.

Again there are only two types of record being released at the moment.

1. Guaranteed successes (Dua Lipa, Pearl Jam)

2. Guaranteed failures (so the label can provide the pandemic as a reason for the failure)

Both are guaranteed successes because they have relatively recent records released for comparison.

Whereas aside from the remaster all GNR's label has to go off of is CD and the Vegas DVD, both of which provide 'meh' numbers.

A new GNR record is not guaranteed sales(CD showed that), and this would realistically be the best they could ever do again in terms of sales. GNR are currently a touring machine, why risk releasing a record with unneeded risk that could damage the brand of the band and as such the touring money?

The 2018 UK sales are "generally applicable for this purpose", but the mid-2019 US sales are not? Interesting.

Pearl Jam could have postponed. Fiona Apple was advised to postpone her new record to October, but she insisted to release now. 

About Pearl Jam... "relatively recent records release" = 7 years ago? Lightning Bolt was release in 2013. 

And a new GNR record with Slash and Duff, like I already said and you also forgot to mention, is VERY different than Chinese Democracy. 

Also, how a new record is a "risk that could damage the brand of the band" for the tour? If the prospect of having a bad album (sales or quality, it doesn't matter which) is such a risk, then nobody would ever release an album again.

[Sweersa]

26 minutes ago, James Bond said:

Before I bought my new vehicle a few years ago, I didnt trust my old clunker on a six/seven hour drive and back so I rented a car. My well intended friend brought a booklet of CDs to listen to on the drive. We quickly realized there was no CD player to be found. 😂

Ohh that sucks major!

[ERNESTORONDON]

4 minutes ago, Muddy said:

 I logged on to the forum this morning and saw that the new album thread was ‘Hot’ . I thought for a second there was some news regarding a new release , but no just the same old bullshit of people discussing irrelevant shit in regards to an album released 12 years ago smh

Same 😂

[Voodoochild]

6 minutes ago, guitarpatch said:

Exactly. We. Don’t. Know. How can we sit here and say what they should do and why haven’t they done what this artist did, etc without knowing the facts.  

UMG is a business. So is GNR. Both parties have to agree to release music under these circumstances alongside whatever their contract stipulates. That’s if there is even music ready to be released. 

I'm really not sure what is your point. I know this is a business decision. I'm actually trying to talk about market's revenues trends to back my ideas. We dont know the facts, we don't know anything about this band. Does that stop us from having discussions anywhere here in this message board?

4 minutes ago, Muddy said:

 I logged on to the forum this morning and saw that the new album thread was ‘Hot’ . I thought for a second there was some news regarding a new release , but no just the same old bullshit of people discussing irrelevant shit in regards to an album released 12 years ago smh

I wonder how many posts like this are in those 150+ pages in this thread. 

If a new album is announced, I'm sure there would be a new thread about it. 

[GNR_RNR]

2 minutes ago, Voodoochild said:

The 2018 UK sales are "generally applicable for this purpose", but the mid-2019 US sales are not? Interesting.

Pearl Jam could have postponed. Fiona Apple was advised to postpone her new record to October, but she insisted to release now. 

About Pearl Jam... "relatively recent records release" = 7 years ago? Lightning Bolt was release in 2013. 

And a new GNR record with Slash and Duff, like I already said and you also forgot to mention, is VERY different than Chinese Democracy. 

Also, how a new record is a "risk that could damage the brand of the band" for the tour? If the prospect of having a bad album (sales or quality, it doesn't matter which) is such a risk, then nobody would ever release an album again.

I didn't say the US figures weren't relevant. Just that they only show a certain view of the data (as these UK figures also show). It is a widely acknowledged fact that older people buy physical media in greater numbers than their younger counterparts.

Yes but Pearl Jam didn't need to postpone, they were pretty much assured album success based on their available data. While for Fiona Apple it doesn't really matter if she releases the album or not her numbers are hardly huge. 

A new GNR record with Slash would most likely do better than CD. But they have no data for that, however the remaster has probably allowed them to build an rough idea of what a new album would do and what they'd be aiming for.

And as for bad albums tainting a bands image. That's why albums get shelved and most likely why CDII was rejected by the label in 2010.