The "New Album" Thread . The maybe, possibly, at some point, soon, whenever, wtf Axl thread🤞

[Pele]

37 minutes ago, Blackstar said:

Since we're at it, a reminder of this Tommy Stinson quote (2017):

Incidentally, Stinson says there’s a wealth of recordings Guns N’ Roses made during his tenure that have yet to be released. “There’s some stuff with lyrics, some without,” he says. “We did a lot of stuff that was supposed to be on Chinese Democracy – the record was meant to be more than one disc, but after spending so much time on it we just had to put an end to it. There’s also stuff that was held over from [the original lineup] before they all disbanded, so there’s some stuff that should someday see the light of day.”

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-features/how-tommy-stinson-moved-on-from-replacements-and-guns-n-roses-116429/

I'd agree with all that.

Some with lyrics (Atlas, Perhaps, Silkworms, Going Down, General, State of Grace, Nothing (partial), Eye on You (partial).

Some without (we all know those)

"the record was meant to be more than one disc, but after spending so much time on it we just had to put an end to it"  In other words, they spent so much time going over and over the same set of songs they just ended up getting them out.

Edited August 31, 2021 by Pele

[Blackstar]

6 minutes ago, Pele said:

I'd agree with all that.

Some with lyrics (Atlas, Perhaps, Silkworms, Going Down, General, State of Grace, Nothing (partial), Eye on You (partial).

Some without (we all know those)

"the record was meant to be more than one disc, but after spending so much time on it we just had to put an end to it"  In other words, they spent so much time going over and over the same set of songs they just ended up getting them out.

I saw this coming (you using the quote as an opportunity to say the same thing) 

[Nick85]

It may not be justified yet, but the steam is slowly leaving my excitement level balloon in regard to an album this year. 

[Pskihq92]

10 minutes ago, sofine11 said:

It may not be justified yet, but the steam is slowly leaving my excitement level balloon in regard to an album this year. 

They're not quite halfway done the USA dates. Still a significant amount of time for something to happen

 

[Voodoochild]

33 minutes ago, Pskihq92 said:

They're not quite halfway done the USA dates. Still a significant amount of time for something to happen

 

It will be one month since Absurd's release. I think next week would be the time for them to do something else. 

 

5 hours ago, Blackstar said:

Yeah, like the article says, only the part of Axl's publishing rights to the back catalogue was leased to Sanctuary (Slash and Duff retained their publishing) and also Axl's rights to future material. With that deal, Axl's publishing company, Black Frog, became affiliated with Sanctuary.

After Sanctuary went bankrupt, it was bought out by UMG Publishing, so UMG bought Axl's deal, too. UMG still has Axl's publishing, unknown if it's the same deal they bought from Sanctuary or a new deal.

Note: As I understand it, the publishing (the rights from songwriting) which was what the deal with Sanctuary was about is different from the rights to the master recordings (usually owned by the record label the artist is signed with). It seems the Aerosmith deal is about the master recordings.

I think the article isn't clear enough about it, but they signed for future releases (probably not even recorded yet), so I guess it's about publishing rights.

Since Sanctuary/Black Frog are under UMG control, and as the band is now a three party company again, it makes sense that Absurd would be released under "Guns N' Roses" with another publishing company. Should Axl claim sole writing credits, it would fall back to Black Frog and UMG. 

[Blackstar]

12 minutes ago, Voodoochild said:

I think the article isn't clear enough about it, but they signed for future releases (probably not even recorded yet), so I guess it's about publishing rights.

Since Sanctuary/Black Frog are under UMG control, and as the band is now a three party company again, it makes sense that Absurd would be released under "Guns N' Roses" with another publishing company. Should Axl claim sole writing credits, it would fall back to Black Frog and UMG. 

The future releases could also mean that Aerosmith have signed with UMG as their record label (I don't know who their current record label is/was), but yes, the article is not clear.

Axl was not credited as the sole writer on the majority of CD, yet the copyright of the album was Black Frog/Geffen. The (known) writers of Absurd are Dizzy, Pitman and Axl, so that should be the same case. So maybe Axl/the GnR partnership has bought the publishing rights of former members?

Edited August 31, 2021 by Blackstar

[Blackstar]

Absurd doesn't appear in the ASCAP/BMI or SESAC databases (SESAC is Axl's PRO), but it has been added in the GMR database (Slash and Duff's PRO). Not much information, though; Slash and Duff are listed as "writers," yet it says that GMR controls 0.00% of the rights:

https://globalmusicrights.com/search

[StrangerInThisTown]

2 hours ago, Blackstar said:

There’s also stuff that was held over from [the original lineup] before they all disbanded, so there’s some stuff that should someday see the light of day.”

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-features/how-tommy-stinson-moved-on-from-replacements-and-guns-n-roses-116429/

Interesting quote, do you remember one from Axl where he said something like they stopped working on that original lineup stuff after Slash and Duff left? I seem to remember something like that. So it could be there's a whole different pool of recordings and demos they can pull from apart from the CD stuff that Axl worked on after 97, which are the leaks we know.

[Jw224]

I remember Axl saying he felt like he needed Slash to work on that stuff so they abandoned it.

[Blackstar]

2 minutes ago, StrangerInThisTown said:

Interesting quote, do you remember one from Axl where he said something like they stopped working on that original lineup stuff after Slash and Duff left? I seem to remember something like that. So it could be there's a whole different pool of recordings and demos they can pull from apart from the CD stuff that Axl worked on after 97, which are the leaks we know.

Yes, that's the most interesting part in Tommy Stinson's quote. It might mean that Tommy had heard that material, and even that there was an attempt for some of it to be used by NuGnR. According to Marc Canter, Axl told him in 2001 that Slash could play on CD if he apologised and the songs Axl wanted Slash to play on were songs dating from the old lineup that Slash had a hand on. There's also the Fortus interview in 2014 where he said they'd been working on songs Slash had helped "plant the seed on".

Here is the Axl quote:

Axl: I think that some of the riffs that were coming out of [Slash] were the meanest, most contemporary, bluesiest, rocking thing since Aerosmith's Rocks. The 2000 version of Aerosmith Rocks or the 1996 Aerosmith Rocks by the time we would have put it out. I don't know if I would have wanted to even do a world tour at the time but I wanted to put that record together and could we have done it? Yes. It's not something I would want to approach (without Slash) because at the time there was only one person that I knew who could do certain riffs that way. We still needed the collaboration of the band as a whole to write the best songs. Since none of that happened, that's the reason why that material got scrapped.

https://www.a-4-d.com/t4785-2002-08-12-gnronline-press-release-guns-n-roses-launch-chinese-democracy-tour-in-china-axl

[Sosso]

17 minutes ago, Blackstar said:

Absurd doesn't appear in the ASCAP/BMI or SESAC databases (SESAC is Axl's PRO), but it has been added in the GMR database (Slash and Duff's PRO). Not much information, though; Slash and Duff are listed as "writers," yet it says that GMR controls 0.00% of the rights:

https://globalmusicrights.com/search

50%, if I'm not mistaken 

Edited August 31, 2021 by Sosso

[Blackstar]

1 minute ago, Sosso said:

50%, if I'm not mistaken 

It says "GLOBAL MUSIC RIGHTS REPRESENTS 0.00%" for Absurd.

[Blackstar]

Just now, Sosso said:

Weird. It says 50.00% for me. 

You're looking at the second song ("Absurdly Fine") which is irrelevant.

[Blackstar]

https://globalmusicrights.com/search

Edited September 1, 2021 by Blackstar

[Voodoochild]

48 minutes ago, Blackstar said:

Axl was not credited as the sole writer on the majority of CD, yet the copyright of the album was Black Frog/Geffen. The (known) writers of Absurd are Dizzy, Pitman and Axl, so that should be the same case. So maybe Axl/the GnR partnership has bought the publishing rights of former members?

Yeah. But as some already pointed out, it's possible that Pitman only wrote the intro and even the discarded chorus lyrics. And if we want to get around semantics, Axl only said that the song was "put together by Mr. Dizzy Reed and Mr. Chris Pitman". In a stretch, one could argue that this is about the arrangement, not the melody and music structure.

15 minutes ago, Blackstar said:

Absurd doesn't appear in the ASCAP/BMI or SESAC databases (SESAC is Axl's PRO), but it has been added in the GMR database (Slash and Duff's PRO). Not much information, though; Slash and Duff are listed as "writers," yet it says that GMR controls 0.00% of the rights:

https://globalmusicrights.com/search

And also says there is a placeholder for Axl (or more): THERE ARE ADDITIONAL PUBLISHERS NOT LICENSED BY GLOBAL MUSIC RIGHTS. 

https://globalmusicrights.com/Search?q=1423294&filter=6&mask=SLASH

Interestingly, Slash is listed on weird GNR related stuff in this database, such as AU PRA NEWERK, which is the Lithuanian name for Don't Cry, and Ain't Going Down.

[Blackstar]

8 minutes ago, Voodoochild said:

Interestingly, Slash is listed on weird GNR related stuff in this database, such as AU PRA NEWERK, which is the Lithuanian name for Don't Cry, and Ain't Going Down.

The AU PRA NEWERK thing appears in the ASCAP database, too, for Izzy, Matt and Dizzy, and in the SESAC database for Axl.

Edited September 1, 2021 by Blackstar

[StrangerInThisTown]

26 minutes ago, Blackstar said:

Yes, that's the most interesting part in Tommy Stinson's quote. It might mean that Tommy had heard that material, and even that there was an attempt for some of it to be used by NuGnR. According to Marc Canter, Axl told him in 2001 that Slash could play on CD if he apologised and the songs Axl wanted Slash to play on were songs dating from the old lineup that Slash had a hand on. There's also the Fortus interview in 2014 where he said they'd been working on songs Slash had helped "plant the seed on".

Here is the Axl quote:

Axl: I think that some of the riffs that were coming out of [Slash] were the meanest, most contemporary, bluesiest, rocking thing since Aerosmith's Rocks. The 2000 version of Aerosmith Rocks or the 1996 Aerosmith Rocks by the time we would have put it out. I don't know if I would have wanted to even do a world tour at the time but I wanted to put that record together and could we have done it? Yes. It's not something I would want to approach (without Slash) because at the time there was only one person that I knew who could do certain riffs that way. We still needed the collaboration of the band as a whole to write the best songs. Since none of that happened, that's the reason why that material got scrapped.

https://www.a-4-d.com/t4785-2002-08-12-gnronline-press-release-guns-n-roses-launch-chinese-democracy-tour-in-china-axl

Yes that's exactly the quote I was looking for! We might get to hear some of that 96 material after all this time, then. I wonder if Hard School was one of the songs that got scrapped? And that's why it didn't come out, and why it's coming out now? It might be one of the songs they had almost completed before Slash left.

[Blackstar]

4 minutes ago, StrangerInThisTown said:

Yes that's exactly the quote I was looking for! We might get to hear some of that 96 material after all this time, then. I wonder if Hard School was one of the songs that got scrapped? And that's why it didn't come out, and why it's coming out now? It might be one of the songs they had almost completed before Slash left.

If Hardschool is the "Jackie Chan song," then it's from 1996 (it didn't have lyrics then, according to Matt), but it doesn't seem it got scrapped, since Axl mentioned it in the 2008 chats.

Oklahoma also probably predates NuGnR. There surely is an earlier version than the Village sessions, because Dave Dominguez said that Oklahoma was already written before NuGnR entered the studio in 1998.

Another song that is "suspect" is The Rebel. That's a weird one, it was on a disc on its own and sounds like something that could have come from the sessions with Zakk Wylde.

[Voodoochild]

1 hour ago, Blackstar said:

If Hardschool is the "Jackie Chan song," then it's from 1996 (it didn't have lyrics then, according to Matt), but it doesn't seem it got scrapped, since Axl mentioned it in the 2008 chats.

Oklahoma also probably predates NuGnR. There surely is an earlier version than the Village sessions, because Dave Dominguez said that Oklahoma was already written before NuGnR entered the studio in 1998.

Another song that is "suspect" is The Rebel. That's a weird one, it was on a disc on its own and sounds like something that could have come from the sessions with Zakk Wylde.

I disagree about The Rebel. IMO, it's different because it uses a slide guitar for most the part but I recognize Robin's tone, especially for the outro. 

Oklahoma has some amazing drums and guitar work. Not sure if it's from Slash/Duff sessions. There are some melodic and key changes that may be from Axl himself and Paul Tobias, the dynamics seems a bit like IRS to me.

[Basic_GnR_Fan]

4 hours ago, DTJ80 said:

Gotta say I totally disagree. I have each of the boxes and reckon they have been almost perfect - they should have had a 5.1 mix like the AFD set.

I totally get the Justice argument but never expected to see a remix. And TBH - the rough mix disc in the set has the bass turned up anyways (I’d caveat that a few tracks have missing extra guitars/some vocals).

Check out with this guy has done with old Metallica songs: https://www.youtube.com/user/ahdykhairat

He made them sound so much better but he doesn't have access to some of the songs. I want to hear all the old catalog like this. I just don't think those albums were produced very well.

[DTJ80]

7 hours ago, Basic_GnR_Fan said:

Check out with this guy has done with old Metallica songs: https://www.youtube.com/user/ahdykhairat

He made them sound so much better but he doesn't have access to some of the songs. I want to hear all the old catalog like this. I just don't think those albums were produced very well.

The disposable heroes sounds great - I take it the Guitar Hero stems were used or something?

I’m fine with the original productions TBH - that maybe in part due to having listened to them for decades. But some good work by this guy. I know megadeth remixed their albums years ago and that didn’t go down well….I suppose you can’t please everyone. I’d still check out any remix though - nothing wrong with having choice I guess!

[Twinaleblood]

3 hours ago, DTJ80 said:

I know megadeth remixed their albums years ago and that didn’t go down well….

That's mostly because Mustaine re-recorded and replaced some parts, which goes a little beyond the concept of remixing and remastering. 

[DTJ80]

21 minutes ago, Twinaleblood said:

That's mostly because Mustaine re-recorded and replaced some parts, which goes a little beyond the concept of remixing and remastering. 

True enough. Wasn’t it the case he claimed some of the original tapes were lost meaning alternative tales etc were used (as well as new vocals)?

[Basic_GnR_Fan]

8 hours ago, DTJ80 said:

The disposable heroes sounds great - I take it the Guitar Hero stems were used or something?

I’m fine with the original productions TBH - that maybe in part due to having listened to them for decades. But some good work by this guy. I know megadeth remixed their albums years ago and that didn’t go down well….I suppose you can’t please everyone. I’d still check out any remix though - nothing wrong with having choice I guess!

Yes I believe he used the stems from guitar hero.

My biggest critique of the Megadeth remixes were the vocals. Apparently they lost some of the original vocal takes and they had to replace them with updated vocals or alt takes, neither of which were nearly as good.

[Pele]

19 hours ago, Blackstar said:

I saw this coming (you using the quote as an opportunity to say the same thing) 

Haha, you knew what you were doing, planting that seed.