The "New Album" Thread . The maybe, possibly, at some point, soon, whenever, wtf Axl thread🤞

[oneway23]

11 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

The question isn't why I would make that argument, but why I bother trying to discuss with you at all 

As for why I made that argument: I was pointing out that just as we had little idea about the wealth of songs-in-development back in 2001, it makes equally little sense to believe we know all about the songs-in-development after 2001. 

Honestly, no one gives a flying V that they had 40,000 "songs" in development.  The wealth of material we all willingly acknowledge the existence of is virtually meaningless if it exists as an instrumental.

Edited January 4, 2022 by oneway23

[Pele]

5 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

Of course there are signs suggesting another two albums of material in various stages of completion; I wouldn't say there were if there weren't  Those signs are the fact that we knew they had worked on more than 28 songs already back in 2001 and of course direct quotes from band members stating "2-3 albums worth of music". And now I await your hilarious claim that band members lied about this for obscure reasons so you can preserve your pet theory about the small amount of material that exists.

Why did band members lie?

Same reason the drummer wasn't allowed to confirm if he drummed on Shadow of your Love recently.

What do you think a band member is gonna say when asked?  "No, there are no new songs because Axl hasn't written any and won't sing.  Instead he has us re-record the few that didn't make it on the album, but they aren't very good"

 

Beta said they had 60 completed songs in March 2001.  Now you're saying 'nobody is saying they had 28 completed songs from the CD sessions', and in the same breath saying you think all signs point to 2-3 albums.

You're absolutely deluded and you've gone so far that you just cannot accept the reality that these songs probably don't exist!

Ever read 'Waiting for Godot'?

 

Edited January 4, 2022 by Pele

[SoulMonster]

2 minutes ago, oneway23 said:

Again, "more or less" might be meaningful in the case of any other band.  With GN'R, it's practically worthless.  I don't care if there are 150 songs 96% completed.  If that remaining 4% to complete involves needing vocal from Axl, you may as well throw your argument in the bin.

If "numerous quotes from band members and others(??)" is the foundation of your point, I'd suggest you've learned very little with regard to this band in the past three decades.  If reality were based on Fortus quotes, they'd have added approximately forty-two completed albums to their official discography since 2002.

I disagree. Of course it matters that band members considered the amount of songs they had after the release of CD to constitute 1-2 additional albums, even if some of these songs needed vocals and some of these songs needed final mixing, as stated by Tommy in November. Tommy also, btw, stated that there was a chance already at that point that Axl had continued working on these songs. Don't forget that except for Axl and Caram, the rest of the band was kept in the dark about the progress being made.

And yes, it matters from a logistic perspective that the band had almost finished 2-3  albums. Of course, Axl can spend an inordinate amount of time on finishing a song, especially if it lacks vocals, we all know that, but it is still better than starting form scratch. It meant that songs existed that he wanted to release. That whole period of working for years and ending up with "one verse" that was okay, was over. They had the songs.

Lastly, the signs I mentioned are both evidence of amount of material existing back in 2001 as shown from the Village leaks, and quotes from band members, and although they have been sadly wrong in terms of when a new record would come out, I don't think they have ever lied about the amount of music they had worked on and find the hypothesis that they would be forced to lie about this to promote an illusion of there being lots of material, rather stupid, to be honest.

4 minutes ago, Pele said:

Everyone had an idea of the number of instrumentals they were likely working on?

When the leak happened, the shock wasn't the instrumentals!

The biggest shock was that there was actually a good song called State of Grace which flew under the radar.

1 song!  And guess what?  The vocals weren't finished.

Yeah, I heard you the last 40 times you said this 

4 minutes ago, oneway23 said:

With all respect, at least as regards this particular thread, who cares about your entirely out of context and off-topic argument, then?

Honestly, no one gives a flying V that they had 40,000 "songs" in development.

You should maybe quit mocking people for their lack of reading comprehension.

Am I witnessing the live recording of the third installment in the Dumb and Dumber franchise?

[Pele]

3 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

I disagree. Of course it matters that band members considered the amount of songs they had after the release of CD to constitute 1-2 additional albums, even if some of these songs needed vocals and some of these songs needed final mixing, as stated by Tommy in November. Tommy also, btw, stated that there was a chance already at that point that Axl had continued working on these songs. Don't forget that except for Axl and Caram, the rest of the band was kept in the dark about the progress being made.

And yes, it matters from a logistic perspective that the band had almost finished 2-3  albums. Of course, Axl can spend an inordinate amount of time on finishing a song, especially if it lacks vocals, we all know that, but it is still better than starting form scratch. It meant that songs existed that he wanted to release. That whole period of working for years and ending up with "one verse" that was okay, was over. They had the songs.

Lastly, the signs I mentioned are both evidence of amount of material existing back in 2001 as shown from the Village leaks, and quotes from band members, and although they have been sadly wrong in terms of when a new record would come out, I don't think they have ever lied about the amount of music they had worked on and find the hypothesis that they would be forced to lie about this to promote an illusion of there being lots of material, rather stupid, to be honest.

Yeah, I heard you the last 40 times you said this 

Am I witnessing the live recording of the third installment in the Dumb and Dumber franchise?

You're tripping yourself up over and over again.

The whole debate is how many songs has Axl completed vocals on. 

That's been my debate since day 1.

We know musicians submitted instrumental after instrumental in the hope he'd sing.  When Brain, Josh, Bucket, Robin stopped, Ashba and Bumblefoot started.  He doesn't finish them, so they stopped too.

Stop telling us musicians submitted instrumentals in a debate about how many songs Rose has sung on.

[SoulMonster]

10 minutes ago, Pele said:

Why did band members lie?

Same reason the drummer wasn't allowed to confirm if he drummed on Shadow of your Love recently.

What do you think a band member is gonna say when asked?  "No, there are no new songs because Axl hasn't written any and won't sing.  Instead he has us re-record the few that didn't make it on the album, but they aren't very good"

Uhm, Slash had already confirmed there are no brand new songs and that the songs they have worked on are old Axl songs. So not sure what your point is?

I don't get why older members would state that there were 1-2 additional albums of material if there were only 1 additional album (which we pretty much know for a fact there was by simply counting the number of finished songs). I don't get the rationale behind such a lie. Why exaggerate the amount of material they had from about 1 album to 1-2 albums? Seems like you haven't thought this pet theory of yours through.

So in your opinion, Tommy, Dizzy, and the rest of the guys exaggerated the amount of material they had more or less finished by 2008, from about 1 album to 2-3 albums, because.... shit, your hypothesis made so little impression on my I have already forgot why you believe such nonsense 

2 minutes ago, Pele said:

You're tripping yourself up over and over again.

The whole debate is how many songs has Axl completed vocals on. 

That's been my debate since day 1.

We know musicians submitted instrumental after instrumental in the hope he'd sing.  When Brain, Josh, Bucket, Robin stopped, Ashba and Bumblefoot started.  He doesn't finish them, so they stopped too.

Stop telling us musicians submitted instrumentals in a debate about how many songs Rose has sung on.

41.

Edited January 4, 2022 by SoulMonster

[oneway23]

Again, Axl not needing to start from scratch, having the desire, and wanting to release this or that is a meaningless rationalization.  They don't "have the songs" if they are incomplete and/or dependent upon Axl to finish them.  That's the entire point.

Edited January 4, 2022 by oneway23

[Blackstar]

10 minutes ago, Pele said:

Beta said they had 60 completed songs in March 2001. 

For the record, because I like accuracy, Beta said there were 48 songs (didn't say "completed") and the date was January 2001 (the interview that was circulating on sites had wrong date and source):

Beta: It will come out in June or July. There are 48 songs and the label is selecting from them.

https://www.a-4-d.com/t4758-2001-01-22-bolsa-de-mulher-interview-with-beta-lebeis

(Of course, as we know, the album didn't come out then )

[SoulMonster]

2 minutes ago, oneway23 said:

Again, Axl not needing to start from scratch, having the desire, and wanting to release this or that is a meaningless rationalization.  They don't "have the songs" if they are incomplete and/or dependent upon Axl to finish them.  That's the entire point.

In 2008, they didn't have 2-3 albums of finished material, right. We all agree on that. But when it comes to how much finished material they have by now, then it surely matters how much material the band considered to be more or less finished in 2008. Those songs that were more or less finished in 2008 would be the starting point to getting finished songs in 2021 (Slash has practically confirmed this). And it is a lot less effort to start with a bunch of songs that are more or less finished (and with that I mean some songs that are entirely finished and some that lack vocals and/or mixing) than starting entirely from scratch. Because Axl isn't only slow when he adds vocals, he can also be slow when it comes to writing music, and despite Pele's fantasies, Axl was heavily involved in the song writing prior to recording vocals. Unless you happen to think band members lied about this, too 

[Sweersa]

2 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

In 2008, they didn't have 2-3 albums of finished material, right. 

In 2008, they had at least two albums of material (if you count the actual 2008 album)

They have recorded since then, so if I were a betting man, I'd say they have two albums worth of material by now, not counting the released 2008 album. 

[Pele]

13 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

Uhm, Slash had already confirmed there are no brand new songs and that the songs they have worked on are old Axl songs. So not sure what your point is?

I don't get why older members would state that there were 1-2 additional albums of material if there were only 1 additional album (which we pretty much know for a fact there was by simply counting the number of finished songs). I don't get the rationale behind such a lie. Why exaggerate the amount of material they had from about 1 album to 1-2 albums? Seems like you haven't thought this pet theory of yours through.

So in your opinion, Tommy, Dizzy, and the rest of the guys exaggerated the amount of material they had more or less finished by 2008, from about 1 album to 2-3 albums, because.... shit, your hypothesis made so little impression on my I have already forgot why you believe such nonsense 

 

Because there was additional material in various states of completion.

There was OMG, Silkworms, Atlas, Hardskool, Perhaps, Eye on You, Nothing, State of Grace, Quick Song and a ton of instrumentals.

There is your 1-2 albums of material in various stages of completion, like they all said.

[Pele]

12 minutes ago, Blackstar said:

For the record, because I like accuracy, Beta said there were 48 songs (didn't say "completed") and the date was January 2001 (the interview that was circulating on sites had wrong date and source):

Beta: It will come out in June or July. There are 48 songs and the label is selecting from them.

https://www.a-4-d.com/t4758-2001-01-22-bolsa-de-mulher-interview-with-beta-lebeis

(Of course, as we know, the album didn't come out then )

Sorry you're right.

Saying there are 48 songs that the label are selecting from suggests there were 48 finished songs.

Obviously that wasn't the case.

SoulMonster now thinks 28 is a stretch!

 

Edited January 4, 2022 by Pele

[oneway23]

Guys, chill.  Tommy said Axl probably worked on stuff after he bounced.  We're golden

[Pele]

11 minutes ago, Sweersa said:

In 2008, they had at least two albums of material (if you count the actual 2008 album)

They have recorded since then, so if I were a betting man, I'd say they have two albums worth of material by now, not counting the released 2008 album. 

Well anyone would take you up on that bet - but I suggest you'll just say 'you think they have 2 completed albums but I don't know if they'll release them?'

I don't believe they had 2 completed albums in 2008.

It's fairly obvious at this point that that follow up 'album' was and why it was shelved.

1 minute ago, oneway23 said:

Guys, chill.  Tommy said Axl probably worked on stuff after he bounced.  We're golden

Yeah - he even said some were finished and some weren't.  There must be 2-3 albums of songs by now.

Edited January 4, 2022 by Pele

[Pele]

17 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

despite Pele's fantasies, Axl was heavily involved in the song writing prior to recording vocals. Unless you happen to think band members lied about this, too 

If you think Axl Rose contributed a note to those versions of Zodiac, D-Tune, Curly Shuffle, Circus Maximus, PRL, Moustache, Billionaire, Dummy, Real Doll, Dub Suplex, Rebel etc then you're beyond help!

[oneway23]

Bros, Richard stayed up all night last night writing a brand-new tune.  It's gonna be sick.

[vloors]

Releasing hard skool and absurd with little to no impact shows how outdated and out of touch these songs are. The band needs a hit not some leftovers that were not good enough for a album.

Cut/copying verses and adlibs without adding one new vocal shows Axl hasnt contribited anything further since those early recordings.

This is bad. 

 

[Pele]

10 minutes ago, vloors said:

Releasing hard skool and absurd with little to no impact shows how outdated and out of touch these songs are. The band needs a hit not some leftovers that were not good enough for a album.

Cut/copying verses and adlibs without adding one new vocal shows Axl hasnt contribited anything further since those early recordings.

This is bad. 

 

Exactly.  If they had an albums worth of usable material, they'd have used some of it.

[oneway23]

28 minutes ago, Pele said:

Yeah - he even said some were finished and some weren't.  There must be 2-3 albums of songs by now.

[SoulMonster]

32 minutes ago, Pele said:

Sorry you're right.

Saying there are 48 songs that the label are selecting from suggests there were 48 finished songs.

Obviously that wasn't the case.

SoulMonster now thinks 28 is a stretch!

Now? 

And Beta didn't say there were 48 finished songs by 2001. They had 48 songs in the works and they involved the record company in choosing which songs to finish. At least, that's how I interpret that article, especially now when we have the Village leaks. 

[oneway23]

Just now, Pele said:

Exactly.  If they had an albums worth of usable material, they'd have used some of it.

I'm sorry, friend...You've got it all wrong.  They obviously selected Absurd and Hard Skool because they were determined to put their best foot forward.

[Pele]

9 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

Now? 

And Beta didn't say there were 48 finished songs by 2001. They had 48 songs in the works and they involved the record company in choosing which songs to finish. At least, that's how I interpret that article, especially now when we have the Village leaks. 

She said they had 48 songs and the label were picking them.

She lied.

They had 17 songs and about 20 instrumentals.

 

You've been wrapped up in a cocoon of horror here.

[SoulMonster]

7 minutes ago, Pele said:

She said they had 48 songs and the label were picking them.

She lied.

They had 17 songs and about 20 instrumentals.

You've been wrapped up in a cocoon of horror here.

You are now assuming our Village leaks represent the entirety of songs in development at the time songs were presented to the record company. 

But nice that you are not repeating your claim that she said the songs were finished. 

[Sweersa]

1 hour ago, Pele said:

Well anyone would take you up on that bet - but I suggest you'll just say 'you think they have 2 completed albums but I don't know if they'll release them?'

I don't believe they had 2 completed albums in 2008.

They did in 2006. Listen to the long (and highly entertaining) Eddie Trunk radio interview with Axl Rose from that year.

Axl said they had about 2.5 albums worth of material, and were even working on stuff later that day or evening. 

Unless he was only talking about instrumentals, there's material there. I doubt he was only referring to instrumentals because we got many, many more instrumentals than 2.5 albums worth along with tracks with vocals in the Village leaks, which were from 5-6 years prior to that interview, and we know they band worked on stuff between 1999 and 2006.

[Jw224]

I would be very surprised if Axl has legitimately not recorded any new vocals since 08. There have been a few reports in which it was specifically stated that he was recording vocals. I guess it's possible that anyone who has ever said that was just lying but yeah that seems unlikely to me personally. Not that I'm under the impression we will hear any of it even if it does exist. It's very likely we never hear it. 

Edited January 4, 2022 by Jw224

[WhazUp]

All this talk about if GNR has 10 fully written unreelased songs in the vault or 40, and Izzy is probably writing 10 songs a day with the 12-bar blues progression in E or A