The "New Album" Thread . The maybe, possibly, at some point, soon, whenever, wtf Axl thread🤞

[SoulMonster]

Just now, Pele said:

Because a lot of people have now grown out of the idea that he had a load of unreleased 'big guns' that he was holding back for CD2 and CD3 (lol).

But that is irrelevant. As long as people believe there are at least three finished songs (and I think most fans will agree on that, we actually know of four (unless people think Axl outright lied) and quite a few that had vocals worked on already back in 2001), then I see no reason why it seems to have become an established truth that out of these songs, only Atlas Shrugged and Perhaps are likely candidates for the next two singles. 

[jamillos]

3 hours ago, SoulMonster said:

I see more people than Pele talk about Atlas Shrugged and Perhaps as the next singles. Why is that? Why not The General and Perhaps? Or Atlas Shrugged and State of Grace? Or The General and Soul Monster? Are people of the opinion that only Atlas Shrugged and Perhaps exist with vocals? Is it contagious?

Personally, I think Perhaps would need more work before it could be released, at least a better mix. I get that Atlas is likely to be the next we hear since it was intended to be included on CD. But as for the other singles (if we even get singles and not just an album), could just as easily be any of the more-or-less finished songs back in 2001 as another unknown or known song that was finished either before the release of CD (like Atlas or, presumably, The General) or a song finished after (like Soul Monster and likely other songs).

Because people think that since the world spins around them, the only mostly finished songs containing vocals are the mostly finished songs containing vocals that are presented in the Village sessions, and therefore that’s the only possibility. Which is about five new songs. I don’t share this opinion and consider it short-sighted. And even if they do release Atlas or any of the remaining ones as the very next single, it still won’t necessarily have to mean anything in particular. 

[Coma16]

Lol at the notion that HS is a good old school GNR "radio" song when it virtually gets no spins on FM rock radio stations....

[smokingarthur]

37 minutes ago, jamillos said:

Because people think that since the world spins around them, the only mostly finished songs containing vocals are the mostly finished songs containing vocals that are presented in the Village sessions, and therefore that’s the only possibility. Which is about five new songs. I don’t share this opinion and consider it short-sighted. And even if they do release Atlas or any of the remaining ones as the very next single, it still won’t necessarily have to mean anything in particular. 

Nothing is a pretty good indication of “nothing”. 

[Seb91]

1 hour ago, Pele said:

Because a lot of people have now grown out of the idea that he had a load of unreleased 'big guns' that he was holding back for CD2 and CD3 (lol).

Anyone with an ounce of common sense has worked what releasing Silkworms/HardSkool meant.

You may believe it's some crazy coincidence that they released 2 new songs, and it happened to be 2 of the 4 completed songs from the sessions, and not Seven, Zodiac, SoulMonster, Berlin, Tonto, Ides of March, Leave Me Alone, Elvis Presley or whatever else you might believe there is.

People aren't gullible enough to believe he has all these unreleased songs, yet chose to release Silkworms and HardSkool by coincidence.

 

Yes, you're right, Atlas is likely to be next.

Yes, you're right, Perhaps needs more work and another verse, but he'll get away with releasing it without having to do any vocals, so he'll probably do so.

People don't know what state The General is in - if it has a full, usable vocal, then it's just as likely as Perhaps but we don't know.

Not as many people think State of Grace will be next because the vocals aren't usable - so it would mean he needed to re-record and people are starting to see how unlikely that is.

I don't think many people are gullible to believe Soul Monster is a completed song with full vocals at this point.  It's likely an instrumental with some scratch vocal melody over it at best.

 

We get it - you think he has an album full of unreleased songs, and for whatever reason, has chosen not to release any for a decade, any you believe they'll be released within 5 years.

A lot of us think you're dreaming at this point.

It's a hard one re new/unfinished material. Hypothetically, after 2002 a lot of work could have been done and so there could be a whole record good to go but I think putting Absurd out is quite a strong indication there isn't a wealth of material sitting there as it was an odd song to release. Whilst I'm aware it's all subjective, it's always been the weakest of the Chinese era songs in my opinion, it's co-written by someone who had an acrimonious split with the band and stylistically it's  a far cry from the classic Guns vibe (although, fair play to Slash, he made it work). Hard Skool made complete sense though as it's a classic GN'R style rocker.

That being said, maybe Axl really likes Absurd but the fact it wasn't played a huge amount before the album release and was left off Chinese leads me to think he wasn't dying to release it. If Going Down is ever released that'll be firm proof to me that this is it because it's a Tommy song through and through. I mean, I can't imagine that it will ever get a release for that reason.

The way I see it the leaks point to the fact that he had one killer album of material, one double album with a fair amount of filler and ultimately what we got - a pretty long single album with some filler, with some of the better stuff kept aside for a rainy day but resulting in a few tracks short of being able to release a follow up album of the same length of the same quality unless there was some writing/work done.  I'd also argue that that chimes with how things played out in that there wasn't a quick follow up and there was talk of writing from '09 which Ashba's appointment supports. If you're going to hire someone purely for their guitar playing chops then DJ Ashba isn't the guy to go for but he'd co-written a solid Crue album and his co-written Sixx: AM songs were getting radio play. The fact that he mentioned Axl playing piano ideas to him leads me to think his writing skills were one of the main reasons he got the gig. 

With hindsight though, I think Axl should have just put out Chinese as a double album, filler and all - first release of the leaks and This I Love during the tour in 2006 and then a release a couple of years later. Whilst we'd have heard most of the material for the first album, the second album would have been completely new. 

 

Edited January 3, 2022 by BassistSeb

[SoulMonster]

23 minutes ago, BassistSeb said:

It's a hard one re new/unfinished material. Hypothetically, after 2002 a lot of work could have been done and so there could be a whole record good to go but I think putting Absurd out is quite a strong indication there isn't a wealth of material sitting there as it was an odd song to release. Whilst I'm aware it's all subjective, it's always been the weakest of the Chinese era songs in my opinion, it's co-written by someone who had an acrimonious split with the band and stylistically it's  a far cry from the classic Guns vibe (although, fair play to Slash, he made it work). Hard Skool made complete sense though as it's a classic GN'R style rocker.

That being said, maybe Axl really likes Absurd but the fact it wasn't played a huge amount before the album release and was left off Chinese leads me to think he wasn't dying to release it. If Going Down is ever released that'll be firm proof to me that this is it because it's a Tommy song through and through. I mean, I can't imagine that it will ever get a release for that reason.

The way I see it the leaks point to the fact that he had one killer album of material, one double album with a fair amount of filler and ultimately what we got - a pretty long single album with some filler, with some of the better stuff kept aside for a rainy day but resulting in a few tracks short of being able to release a follow up album of the same length of the same quality unless there was some writing/work done.  I'd also argue that that chimes with how things played out in that there wasn't a quick follow up and there was talk of writing from '09 which Ashba's appointment supports. If you're going to hire someone purely for their guitar playing chops then DJ Ashba isn't the guy to go for but he'd co-written a solid Crue album and his co-written Sixx: AM songs were getting radio play. The fact that he mentioned Axl playing piano ideas to him leads me to think his writing skills were one of the main reasons he got the gig. 

With hindsight though, I think Axl should have just put out Chinese as a double album, filler and all - first release of the leaks and This I Love during the tour in 2006 and then a release a couple of years later. Whilst we'd have heard most of the material for the first album, the second album would have been completely new. 

 

It is absolutely not implausible that DJ was hired in 2009 for his song-writing capacity. Many fans would likely agree that is the most appealing explanation. And DJ himself, at some point, suggested that to be the case. Still, right after the release of Chinese Democracy, Axl's focus was on the planned "double" album, so it seems unlikely that just a few months later, Axl had discarded that idea and decided to go for writing a new album from the bottoms-up. A more likely explanation, in my opinion, is that Axl thought about the future and considered DJ as an asset for song-writing later on. Additionally, it was always important to Axl that all players were represented on an album, and he possibly thought it would be easier to include DJ somehow based on DJ's proven track-record of writing music.

Interestingly, by 2010-2011 it is harder to assess what Axl's plans were. His radio silence means we don't know much what his plans were. DJ would frequently talk about the music Axl had that wasn't recorded, and how he looked forward to writing with Axl. DJ started writing (presumably on his own), resulting in Ballad Of Death and Mi Amor, but it doesn't seem like Axl wanted to work with this. Does this mean he still wanted the next record to just be material from the CD sessions? Who knows?

As for how much material existed after the release of CD: likely at least one complete record of material (confirmed by multiple sources), but not entirely finished. Tommy would say that at least some songs missed vocals and final mixing. But Tommy hadn't heard the songs since the recording sessions prior to the release of CD and himself concluded that Axl might have finished these. So the material seems to have been there. At least it would be less work to finish them than to write new songs.

Another thing that can be gleaned from contemporary interviews, is that there was significant push to write new songs from within the band. New guys without writing credits, Bumblefoot and DJ, obviously wanted the band to focus on new music rather than old material where at best they could hope to have some parts tacked on. Especially Bumblefoot was really vocal about this in interviews. Whether this influenced Axl or not, is impossible to say, but in late 2011 it seems like the decision had been made to convene after touring to write. Whether that implies entirely new songs, re-write existing material, or just write a couple new songs so DJ and Bumbles got writing credit, is unknown to me. 

[SoulMonster]

Another thing. Regardless of whether the band wrote new material after CD or whether Axl just finished existing songs...or not, we know that now Slash has added guitar to lots of songs (unless he lied, or I misremember). That means that when it comes to what the next singles will be, it isn't just a question of Atlas Shrugged and/or Perhaps, unless Slash and I have a very different understanding of what "lots" means. Also, Hard Skool Absurd, Perhaps and Atlas Shrugged doth not an album maketh, and there's been quite a few indications that an album is in the works.

Edited January 3, 2022 by SoulMonster

[Legendador]

17 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

It is absolutely not implausible that DJ was hired in 2009 for his song-writing capacity. Many fans would likely agree that is the most appealing explanation. And DJ himself, at some point, suggested that to be the case. Still, right after the release of Chinese Democracy, Axl's focus was on the planned "double" album, so it seems unlikely that just a few months later, Axl had discarded that idea and decided to go for writing a new album from the bottoms-up. A more likely explanation, in my opinion, is that Axl thought about the future and considered DJ as an asset for song-writing later on. Additionally, it was always important to Axl that all players were represented on an album, and he possibly thought it would be easier to include DJ somehow based on DJ's proven track-record of writing music.

Interestingly, by 2010-2011 it is harder to assess what Axl's plans were. His radio silence means we don't know much what his plans were. DJ would frequently talk about the music Axl had that wasn't recorded, and how he looked forward to writing with Axl. DJ started writing (presumably on his own), resulting in Ballad Of Death and Mi Amor, but it doesn't seem like Axl wanted to work with this. Does this mean he still wanted the next record to just be material from the CD sessions? Who knows?

As for how much material existed after the release of CD: likely at least one complete record of material (confirmed by multiple sources), but not entirely finished. Tommy would say that at least some songs missed vocals and final mixing. But Tommy hadn't heard the songs since the recording sessions prior to the release of CD and himself concluded that Axl might have finished these. So the material seems to have been there. At least it would be less work to finish them than to write new songs.

Another thing that can be gleaned from contemporary interviews, is that there was significant push to write new songs from within the band. New guys without writing credits, Bumblefoot and DJ, obviously wanted the band to focus on new music rather than old material where at best they could hope to have some parts tacked on. Especially Bumblefoot was really vocal about this in interviews. Whether this influenced Axl or not, is impossible to say, but in late 2011 it seems like the decision had been made to convene after touring to write. Whether that implies entirely new songs, re-write existing material, or just write a couple new songs so DJ and Bumbles got writing credit, is unknown to me. 

I just wonder "if" or "when" THE GENERAL gets released if it will be all that.

Nobody did listen to the song, we only have Baz's ultra-hyped description of the song and we all know that Sebastian is like a kid in a candy store when talking rock or metal, the dude still headbangs to the "Smoke On The Water" riff like if it was the 70s.

What if the song is not that good and we're just hyped about a cool "name" and "kid on a candy store"?

[SoulMonster]

3 minutes ago, Legendador said:

I just wonder "if" or "when" THE GENERAL gets released if it will be all that.

Nobody did listen to the song, we only have Baz's ultra-hyped description of the song and we all know that Sebastian is like a kid in a candy store when talking rock or metal, the dude still headbangs to the "Smoke On The Water" riff like if it was the 70s.

What if the song is not that good and we're just hyped about a cool "name" and "kid on a candy store"?

Yeah, I am not one of those who rave about a song I haven't heard yet. I suppose it could be as bad as the worst from Chinese Democracy or as great as the best, which is a pretty wide fucking range 

[Seb91]

19 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

It is absolutely not implausible that DJ was hired in 2009 for his song-writing capacity. Many fans would likely agree that is the most appealing explanation. And DJ himself, at some point, suggested that to be the case. Still, right after the release of Chinese Democracy, Axl's focus was on the planned "double" album, so it seems unlikely that just a few months later, Axl had discarded that idea and decided to go for writing a new album from the bottoms-up. A more likely explanation, in my opinion, is that Axl thought about the future and considered DJ as an asset for song-writing later on. Additionally, it was always important to Axl that all players were represented on an album, and he possibly thought it would be easier to include DJ somehow based on DJ's proven track-record of writing music.

Interestingly, by 2010-2011 it is harder to assess what Axl's plans were. His radio silence means we don't know much what his plans were. DJ would frequently talk about the music Axl had that wasn't recorded, and how he looked forward to writing with Axl. DJ started writing (presumably on his own), resulting in Ballad Of Death and Mi Amor, but it doesn't seem like Axl wanted to work with this. Does this mean he still wanted the next record to just be material from the CD sessions? Who knows?

As for how much material existed after the release of CD: likely at least one complete record of material (confirmed by multiple sources), but not entirely finished. Tommy would say that at least some songs missed vocals and final mixing. But Tommy hadn't heard the songs since the recording sessions prior to the release of CD and himself concluded that Axl might have finished these. So the material seems to have been there. At least it would be less work to finish them than to write new songs.

Another thing that can be gleaned from contemporary interviews, is that there was significant push to write new songs from within the band. New guys without writing credits, Bumblefoot and DJ, obviously wanted the band to focus on new music rather than old material where at best they could hope to have some parts tacked on. Especially Bumblefoot was really vocal about this in interviews. Whether this influenced Axl or not, is impossible to say, but in late 2011 it seems like the decision had been made to convene after touring to write. Whether that implies entirely new songs, re-write existing material, or just write a couple new songs so DJ and Bumbles got writing credit, is unknown to me. 

 

Yeah, the vibe I got back then from interviews was that it was going to be the second volume of Chinese and then some new material. Which, thinking about it is still where we are now. Has it ever been properly confirmed how the reunion came about and the other members left? Obviously Duff filled in for Tommy during the 'Mats stuff (that 'Mats reunion tour was awesome!) but in interviews it seems like he made the decision to leave rather than it being a temporary thing. Ashba also said he was offered a role in the Slash and Duff era. It seems we're basically in the same situation pre-reunion - roughly an album's worth of CD stuff with redone parts by the current lineup and hope for some new material. 

The vibe I got back when the reunion was announced was that it was more of a continuation than a complete starting over. I'm glad the CD stuff hasn't been thrown out. Judging from interviews over the years and indeed the final Chinese stuff we know that work was done on the tracks after the era the recent leaks come from. Wouldn't be surprised if there are more vocals out there. Agree Slash's comments are interesting. 

If I were being optimistic I'd say that they may be holding off putting something more meaningful out until they're more certain a tour can happen without any big Covid disruption.  I suppose time will tell ultimately. 

 

[Legendador]

44 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

Yeah, I am not one of those who rave about a song I haven't heard yet. I suppose it could be as bad as the worst from Chinese Democracy or as great as the best, which is a pretty wide fucking range 

I don't get it! And I don't understand how a super band like the GNR formations from 97 to 99 and then the GNR from 2001 to 2006 was not able to come up with at least 30+ cool songs and that we all have heard all that was left, but THE GENERAL.

It does not make sense!

And to me, the best GNR leak was AS IT BEGAN, it is a shame this for sure will never be reworked or released.

But I still have faith on a CRASH DIET reworked version for the UYI Boxset.

[rumandraisin]

I've just had a bit of a realisation that the plan is probably exactly as it was circa 2011.

The "new album" ie Cd2 is the same crop of tracks it always was, only instead of Bumble and Ashba overdubs they were replaced with Slash and Duff. 

Even the singles are being released in the same order, Axl said they wanted Silkworms out soon in late 2013 didn't he. Maybe Hard Skool was planned as the second. 

All speculation of course but tbh I really don't think anything has changed. I think Cd2 is the same as it always was going to be, finished in 2015 with Carem then overdubbed mid reunion with Slash and Duff. 

Credits kept simple by saying performed by Guns n Roses also. Rather then all the sub bass by Chris Pitman type credits. 

Edited January 3, 2022 by rumandraisin

[Seb91]

6 minutes ago, rumandraisin said:

I've just had a bit of a realisation that the plan is probably exactly as it was circa 2011.

Cd2 is the same crop of tracks it always was, only instead of Bumble and Ashba overdubs they were replaced with Slash and Duff. 

Even the singles are being released in the same order, Axl said they wanted Silkworms out soon in late 2013 didn't he. Maybe Hard Skool was planned as the second. 

All speculation of course but tbh I really don't think anything has changed. I think Cd2 is the same as it always was going to be, finished in 2015 with Carem then overdubbed with Slash and Duff. 

I've got a feeling that's probably bang on. Would link to Slash's comments about adding guitar to loads of tracks. Weren't there rumours way back (i.e. pre-reunion) of CD2 being offered to the record company and rejected which would imply a finished album?

Edited January 3, 2022 by BassistSeb

[SoulMonster]

1 hour ago, BassistSeb said:

 

Yeah, the vibe I got back then from interviews was that it was going to be the second volume of Chinese and then some new material. Which, thinking about it is still where we are now. Has it ever been properly confirmed how the reunion came about and the other members left? Obviously Duff filled in for Tommy during the 'Mats stuff (that 'Mats reunion tour was awesome!) but in interviews it seems like he made the decision to leave rather than it being a temporary thing. Ashba also said he was offered a role in the Slash and Duff era. It seems we're basically in the same situation pre-reunion - roughly an album's worth of CD stuff with redone parts by the current lineup and hope for some new material. 

The vibe I got back when the reunion was announced was that it was more of a continuation than a complete starting over. I'm glad the CD stuff hasn't been thrown out. Judging from interviews over the years and indeed the final Chinese stuff we know that work was done on the tracks after the era the recent leaks come from. Wouldn't be surprised if there are more vocals out there. Agree Slash's comments are interesting. 

If I were being optimistic I'd say that they may be holding off putting something more meaningful out until they're more certain a tour can happen without any big Covid disruption.  I suppose time will tell ultimately. 

The "reunion" was initially just intended for a few shows (Coachella), but it worked so well they just added more and more shows. Or so they say. In a sense it had to be that way regardless, because they had to test the waters before committing. 

And yes, it definitely wasn't to release more music, it was to tour. Mostly for the money, I assume, but maybe also to please fans (at least I like to think so). 

But it was also a move that reduced Axl’s...freedom to operate. Reuniting with Slash is a committed step, much harder to return to a "lesser" lineup with Slash afterwards to release more music. So in a sense, after the first shows with Slash and Duff, Axl had less viable options. Fortunately, things turned out well and they - and I never thought this would happen - decided to not only release more music, but also do it with existing songs from the CD sessions. If things had gone bad, and the reunited lineup had folded quickly, it could have been the end of Guns N' Roses. 

Going back to what we talked about before, and why a follow-up didn't happen prior to the reunion. I really don't know. It's a bit of a mystery to me. And when the reunion happened, it almost looks like band members were happy to leave. I can understand Bumblefoot and DJ was okay with it, they had been in the band for 10 and 7 years with likely no writing credits. Tommy, on the other hand, must have felt disappointment that after all his loyalty and standing by Axl's side, for 20 odd years, nothing more came out of it than one CD. But he's is a good sport and gracefully stepped aside, probably having more or less given up on CD2 by then, or assuming he might get writing credit regardless. Chris, on the other hand, reacted naturally, in my opinion, being pissed off by the regression of taking Slash and Duff back and realizing with that move, the likelihood of CD2 was greatly diminished. He called it a cash grab move, if I remember correctly, and I can hardly blame him. I would probably have been pissed and disillusioned too. 

But what happened after 2009 and before 2016? Did Axl never manage to get the audiences sufficiently excited about CD to motivate him to release CD2? Was it too difficult to try to add yet another guitar track onto songs written years ago by other musicians? Was Axl burnt by the whole debacle of CD and decided to just focus on tourikg? Problems with record label that made it difficult? Did the rest of the band not fully support him in releasing the rest of the material? I hope Axl decides to discuss this at some point. 

[SoulMonster]

1 hour ago, BassistSeb said:

I've got a feeling that's probably bang on. Would link to Slash's comments about adding guitar to loads of tracks. Weren't there rumours way back (i.e. pre-reunion) of CD2 being offered to the record company and rejected which would imply a finished album?

Yes, but I am not sure where those rumours come from. Looking at contemporary interviews from that time, there is no indication this happened. Axl does not say anything about it and if he did, it seems to have been without informing the rest of the band because they seemed oblivious about it. 

[SoulMonster]

1 hour ago, rumandraisin said:

I've just had a bit of a realisation that the plan is probably exactly as it was circa 2011.

The "new album" ie Cd2 is the same crop of tracks it always was, only instead of Bumble and Ashba overdubs they were replaced with Slash and Duff. 

Even the singles are being released in the same order, Axl said they wanted Silkworms out soon in late 2013 didn't he. Maybe Hard Skool was planned as the second. 

All speculation of course but tbh I really don't think anything has changed. I think Cd2 is the same as it always was going to be, finished in 2015 with Carem then overdubbed mid reunion with Slash and Duff. 

Credits kept simple by saying performed by Guns n Roses also. Rather then all the sub bass by Chris Pitman type credits. 

I agree completely. Axl is still focused on CD2. And after having gotten Slash on board it is probably an easier sell, to both label and record buyers. He just need to scrape the songs of most previous musicians and add some tophat. 

[Pele]

3 hours ago, SoulMonster said:

It is absolutely not implausible that DJ was hired in 2009 for his song-writing capacity. Many fans would likely agree that is the most appealing explanation. And DJ himself, at some point, suggested that to be the case. Still, right after the release of Chinese Democracy, Axl's focus was on the planned "double" album, so it seems unlikely that just a few months later, Axl had discarded that idea and decided to go for writing a new album from the bottoms-up. A more likely explanation, in my opinion, is that Axl thought about the future and considered DJ as an asset for song-writing later on. Additionally, it was always important to Axl that all players were represented on an album, and he possibly thought it would be easier to include DJ somehow based on DJ's proven track-record of writing music.

Interestingly, by 2010-2011 it is harder to assess what Axl's plans were. His radio silence means we don't know much what his plans were. DJ would frequently talk about the music Axl had that wasn't recorded, and how he looked forward to writing with Axl. DJ started writing (presumably on his own), resulting in Ballad Of Death and Mi Amor, but it doesn't seem like Axl wanted to work with this. Does this mean he still wanted the next record to just be material from the CD sessions? Who knows?

As for how much material existed after the release of CD: likely at least one complete record of material (confirmed by multiple sources), but not entirely finished. Tommy would say that at least some songs missed vocals and final mixing. But Tommy hadn't heard the songs since the recording sessions prior to the release of CD and himself concluded that Axl might have finished these. So the material seems to have been there. At least it would be less work to finish them than to write new songs.

Another thing that can be gleaned from contemporary interviews, is that there was significant push to write new songs from within the band. New guys without writing credits, Bumblefoot and DJ, obviously wanted the band to focus on new music rather than old material where at best they could hope to have some parts tacked on. Especially Bumblefoot was really vocal about this in interviews. Whether this influenced Axl or not, is impossible to say, but in late 2011 it seems like the decision had been made to convene after touring to write. Whether that implies entirely new songs, re-write existing material, or just write a couple new songs so DJ and Bumbles got writing credit, is unknown to me. 

Yes, DJ likely submitted instrumentals hoping Axl would sing on the - like Josh. Brain, Bucket, Robin etc before him.  

We know he submitted Mi Amor and Ballad of Death and nothing happened with them (what a surprise!)

You seriously need to stop believing an album is completed because of stuff band members said in interviews!  It's clear they lie, squirm and avoid as best they can.  Frank wasn't even allowed to confirm if the drumming on SOYL is him.  They all say the same - there are other songs, some finished, some not.  We now know that was true.  Some were finished (Atlas, Silkworms, Perhaps, OMG, nearly SOG), some were not.

Of course Bumble was pushing for new material.  Just like Robin, Freese and Bucket, he left because it was becoming obvious Rose was going to do his studio work, and any further instrumentals handed over were wasted songs.

Edited January 3, 2022 by Pele

[Pele]

2 hours ago, Legendador said:

I just wonder "if" or "when" THE GENERAL gets released if it will be all that.

Nobody did listen to the song, we only have Baz's ultra-hyped description of the song and we all know that Sebastian is like a kid in a candy store when talking rock or metal, the dude still headbangs to the "Smoke On The Water" riff like if it was the 70s.

What if the song is not that good and we're just hyped about a cool "name" and "kid on a candy store"?

I'm pretty certain it's going to be very underwhelming.

Wasn't Atlas much more interesting before we heard it 

[Pele]

3 hours ago, SoulMonster said:

Another thing. Regardless of whether the band wrote new material after CD or whether Axl just finished existing songs...or not, we know that now Slash has added guitar to lots of songs (unless he lied, or I misremember). That means that when it comes to what the next singles will be, it isn't just a question of Atlas Shrugged and/or Perhaps, unless Slash and I have a very different understanding of what "lots" means. Also, Hard Skool Absurd, Perhaps and Atlas Shrugged doth not an album maketh, and there's been quite a few indications that an album is in the works.

Stop listening to what these people say and trying to dissect their language! 

They are clearly briefed to keep it optimistically vague.   Keep the illusion of a normal working creative band alive whilst being non-committal on numbers of songs, song titles, potential releases etc.

As I said in my last post - Frank wasn't even allowed to confirm if he drummed on Shadow of Your Love!  He was asked directly, stuttered and said it's a question for management.

When asked about Miles, Slash told us exactly how many songs they'd done, when they were recording, and when they were releasing.

When asked about GNR, "...uuhh....all things considered...uh....we've got a few ideas....i've recorded some stuff......not sure how to physically release music......uh, not written anything new as such.....but there is a lot coming.....it's complicated"

[Seb91]

37 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

The "reunion" was initially just intended for a few shows (Coachella), but it worked so well they just added more and more shows. Or so they say. In a sense it had to be that way regardless, because they had to test the waters before committing. 

And yes, it definitely wasn't to release more music, it was to tour. Mostly for the money, I assume, but maybe also to please fans (at least I like to think so). 

But it was also a move that reduced Axl’s...freedom to operate. Reuniting with Slash is a committed step, much harder to return to a "lesser" lineup with Slash afterwards to release more music. So in a sense, after the first shows with Slash and Duff, Axl had less viable options. Fortunately, things turned out well and they - and I never thought this would happen - decided to not only release more music, but also do it with existing songs from the CD sessions. If things had gone bad, and the reunited lineup had folded quickly, it could have been the end of Guns N' Roses. 

Going back to what we talked about before, and why a follow-up didn't happen prior to the reunion. I really don't know. It's a bit of a mystery to me. And when the reunion happened, it almost looks like band members were happy to leave. I can understand Bumblefoot and DJ was okay with it, they had been in the band for 10 and 7 years with likely no writing credits. Tommy, on the other hand, must have felt disappointment that after all his loyalty and standing by Axl's side, for 20 odd years, nothing more came out of it than one CD. But he's is a good sport and gracefully stepped aside, probably having more or less given up on CD2 by then, or assuming he might get writing credit regardless. Chris, on the other hand, reacted naturally, in my opinion, being pissed off by the regression of taking Slash and Duff back and realizing with that move, the likelihood of CD2 was greatly diminished. He called it a cash grab move, if I remember correctly, and I can hardly blame him. I would probably have been pissed and disillusioned too. 

But what happened after 2009 and before 2016? Did Axl never manage to get the audiences sufficiently excited about CD to motivate him to release CD2? Was it too difficult to try to add yet another guitar track onto songs written years ago by other musicians? Was Axl burnt by the whole debacle of CD and decided to just focus on tourikg? Problems with record label that made it difficult? Did the rest of the band not fully support him in releasing the rest of the material? I hope Axl decides to discuss this at some point. 

Seconded in terms of hoping Axl discusses what happened with CD2 and the end of the 2009-2014 band at some point. I've come across an interview with The Current from 2016 in which Tommy says he left before the reunion was on the cards due to stuff in his personal life. Bumble seemed to have one foot out the door at the time as well if I remember correctly. If there is some truth to the rumour that there was album done which was rejected it would explain Axl's lack of interest in doing anything new and Bumble and Ashba's desire to move on.  The simple answer of course is that there was no rejected album and Axl just didn't have any interest in putting anything new out. (Seen your recent post - yeah, nothing seems to support a  label rejection in interviews at the time).

It's funny, whilst I think it's such a shame that there was so much wasted potential with all of the various nuGuns lineups and the reunion seemed like a step backward (and indeed the lack of Matt and Izzy made it feel less of a full reunion), it was a real shot in the arm that GN'R needed (as it seems Axl was a few men down from the lineup) and as new GN'R music with Slash and Duff will always be more appealing to promotors/labels etc. it's weird to think that a reunion was the best way to get the Chinese leftovers out. 

I do think that evidently Axl hasn't had much interest in writing and recording for years and putting out old songs from the vault with reworked parts probably works for all involved as it isn't as labour intensive as writing a new album from scratch. I'd love to see them get in a room and jam together like Sabbath did for 13 but can't see it happening really.  

Edited January 3, 2022 by BassistSeb

[Blackstar]

1 hour ago, BassistSeb said:

I've got a feeling that's probably bang on. Would link to Slash's comments about adding guitar to loads of tracks. Weren't there rumours way back (i.e. pre-reunion) of CD2 being offered to the record company and rejected which would imply a finished album?

33 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

Yes, but I am not sure where those rumours come from. Looking at contemporary interviews from that time, there is no indication this happened. Axl does not say anything about it and if he did, it seems to have been without informing the rest of the band because they seemed oblivious about it. 

From what I understand, those rumours came from certain "insiders".

For what it's worth, Fernando was asked about it when he went to the discord a couple of years ago, and he said that it never happened - and that, generally, Axl never submitted an album that was rejected by the label during the time Jimmy Iovine was in charge.

[Pele]

1 hour ago, BassistSeb said:

I've got a feeling that's probably bang on. Would link to Slash's comments about adding guitar to loads of tracks. Weren't there rumours way back (i.e. pre-reunion) of CD2 being offered to the record company and rejected which would imply a finished album?

The supposed tracklisting was shared and it could have been rejected on that basis.

If it's to be believed, it contained updated versions of This I Love, Better and ChiDem, along with a new version of Knockin on Heavens Door.  It also contained Silkwoms, OMG and Atlas Shrugged. 

So based on the above, it would have been a dreadful album.

 

It is a very interesting document though, which pre-dates the locker disks by a good few years.

The Locker Leaks confirmed that Going Down, Perhaps, Nothing, Tonto were real, and also confirmed that they had recorded KOTH.  MSL leaked an updated version of This I Love, so the list definitely has some merit.

 

[Seb91]

  

22 minutes ago, Blackstar said:

From what I understand, those rumours came from certain "insiders".

For what it's worth, Fernando was asked about it when he went to the discord a couple of years ago, and he said that it never happened - and that, generally, Axl never submitted an album that was rejected by the label during the time Jimmy Iovine was in charge.

Ah! Thanks for clarifying. Yeah, it always struck me as odd that they'd reject an album. Whilst I think it's likely that there are more finished vocals than in the leaks, I wonder if there wasn't enough to release a record not long after Chinese. I think any future singles will be a good indication of that. 

 

11 minutes ago, Pele said:

The supposed tracklisting was shared and it could have been rejected on that basis.

If it's to be believed, it contained updated versions of This I Love, Better and ChiDem, along with a new version of Knockin on Heavens Door.  It also contained Silkwoms, OMG and Atlas Shrugged. 

So based on the above, it would have been a dreadful album.

 

It is a very interesting document though, which pre-dates the locker disks by a good few years.

The Locker Leaks confirmed that Going Down, Perhaps, Nothing, Tonto were real, and also confirmed that they had recorded KOTH.  MSL leaked an updated version of This I Love, so the list definitely has some merit.

 

Ah! I remember that rumoured tracklisting. The thing I find most interesting about the recent leaks is how far back Going Down goes as a song. Given that when it first leaked it was around the same time as Bumble's acoustic Better, I figured at the time that it was an unreleased Tommy solo song from One Man Mutiny as there was a sort of 'scrounging around for material' vibe going on (which revisiting Oh My God and Silkworms would support). I guess we'll never know really re an album. I'm inclined to think there isn't this wealth of songs which just need Slash and Duff's finishing touches but would be happy to be proven wrong.  

28 minutes ago, Pele said:

Stop listening to what these people say and trying to dissect their language! 

They are clearly briefed to keep it optimistically vague.   Keep the illusion of a normal working creative band alive whilst being non-committal on numbers of songs, song titles, potential releases etc.

As I said in my last post - Frank wasn't even allowed to confirm if he drummed on Shadow of Your Love!  He was asked directly, stuttered and said it's a question for management.

When asked about Miles, Slash told us exactly how many songs they'd done, when they were recording, and when they were releasing.

When asked about GNR, "...uuhh....all things considered...uh....we've got a few ideas....i've recorded some stuff......not sure how to physically release music......uh, not written anything new as such.....but there is a lot coming.....it's complicated"

I agree that any comments have to be taken with a pinch of salt. Just like when the Zeppelin reissues started coming out, Jimmy Page would hint at future solo projects that never happened. I don't think it's unlikely that Slash has probably worked on a fair few songs though. Whether we'll ever hear any of them remains to be seen. The promotion for the two singles has been bizarre really. I mean, I'd never have imagined in my wildest fever dreams in the 2000s that Absurd/Silkworms would be the big comeback single from a reunion 

Edited January 3, 2022 by BassistSeb

[Pele]

37 minutes ago, BassistSeb said:

Seconded in terms of hoping Axl discusses what happened with CD2 and the end of the 2009-2014 band at some point. I've come across an interview with The Current from 2016 in which Tommy says he left before the reunion was on the cards due to stuff in his personal life. Bumble seemed to have one foot out the door at the time as well if I remember correctly. If there is some truth to the rumour that there was album done which was rejected it would explain Axl's lack of interest in doing anything new and Bumble and Ashba's desire to move on.  The simple answer of course is that there was no rejected album and Axl just didn't have any interest in putting anything new out.

It's funny, whilst I think it's such a shame that there was so much wasted potential with all of the various nuGuns lineups and the reunion seemed like a step backward (and indeed the lack of Matt and Izzy made it feel less of a full reunion), it was a real shot in the arm that GN'R needed (as it seems Axl was a few men down from the lineup) and as new GN'R music with Slash and Duff will always be more appealing to promotors/labels etc. it's weird to think that a reunion was the best way to get the Chinese leftovers out. 

I do think that evidently Axl hasn't had much interest in writing and recording for years and putting out old songs from the vault with reworked parts probably works for all involved as it isn't as labour intensive as writing a new album from scratch. I'd love to see them get in a room and jam together like Sabbath did for 13 but can't see it happening really.  

I think it's pretty clear what went on.

Late 90s.  They had a strong line-up.  Rose was excited and optimistic, but nervous.  They has The Blues and Madagascar and some other stuff, and instrumentals/ideas were coming from the band.

Things started taking too long.  Josh and Robin realized nothing much was happening and left. 

By 00, Robin was back, Brain was in, and they had the bones of an album.  But it was average.  It contained decent enough filler like HardSkool, Perhaps, IRS, Chinese and utter garbage like Silkworms, Riad, Catcher, Atlas.

The Elephant in the Room was this wasn't going to be the great comeback everyone had hoped, and Buckethead, Robin, Brain were probably frustrated that their instrumentals were't being completed.

Rose played the work to Bob Erzin and was told he only has 2-3 good songs.

Buckethead left, the 2002 tour fell apart and Rose gave up.

 

Later, he got additional musicians, got in shape, did some work 05-06, finished Better, Sorry, Shacklers and Scraped and released the record in 08.

 

The idea this guy has backup albums up his sleeve are crazy!  He's worked on the same batch of songs for 30 years, and it includes Silkworms, Scraped, OMG, Atlas, Riad, Cather!!!!!

 

Edited January 3, 2022 by Pele

[Blackstar]

5 hours ago, BassistSeb said:

Seconded in terms of hoping Axl discusses what happened with CD2 and the end of the 2009-2014 band at some point. I've come across an interview with The Current from 2016 in which Tommy says he left before the reunion was on the cards due to stuff in his personal life. Bumble seemed to have one foot out the door at the time as well if I remember correctly. If there is some truth to the rumour that there was album done which was rejected it would explain Axl's lack of interest in doing anything new and Bumble and Ashba's desire to move on.  The simple answer of course is that there was no rejected album and Axl just didn't have any interest in putting anything new out. (Seen your recent post - yeah, nothing seems to support a  label rejection in interviews at the time).

It's funny, whilst I think it's such a shame that there was so much wasted potential with all of the various nuGuns lineups and the reunion seemed like a step backward (and indeed the lack of Matt and Izzy made it feel less of a full reunion), it was a real shot in the arm that GN'R needed (as it seems Axl was a few men down from the lineup) and as new GN'R music with Slash and Duff will always be more appealing to promotors/labels etc. it's weird to think that a reunion was the best way to get the Chinese leftovers out. 

I do think that evidently Axl hasn't had much interest in writing and recording for years and putting out old songs from the vault with reworked parts probably works for all involved as it isn't as labour intensive as writing a new album from scratch. I'd love to see them get in a room and jam together like Sabbath did for 13 but can't see it happening really.  

Yeah, Tommy said that they all sort of left it in Vegas in 2014. We know that Bumblefoot had given notice that he was quitting earlier than that, at the last SA show in 2014 (even though he didn't say anything in public for more than a year and continued acting like he was still in the band).

According to a quote from, iirc, September 2014, Ashba hadn't done any work on unreleased material from the CD sessions (he had only done his own material). Maybe he did something later that year, at the same time Fortus said he was working on unreleased songs, but it's not clear. In mid 2015, when Ashba announced he was quitting and also Bumblefoot's departure was officially confirmed, Fortus was quoted saying that he hadn't heard from the band in months - so no one, except maybe Pitman (?) was involved in any sessions after Dec. 2014. So, if Axl was working at that time with the prospect of releasing material, he was doing it basically on his own with Caram - and, at the same time, the negotiations for the reunion were in place.

Based on what we've known (from official sources, mostly) regarding the follow-up to CD during the NuGnR years, my take is that Axl was not interested in writing new music with the Bumblefoot/Ashba lineup (although seemingly the members were encouraged - or at least not discouraged - to write new material, maybe as a way to keep them motivated). That was either because he didn't think the songs submitted to him by Bumblefoot and Ashba were good enough or because he was focused on finishing the unfinished business of the CD material - or, most likely, it was both.

Edited January 4, 2022 by Blackstar