The history of GN'R as told by GN'R (A4D)

[The Holographic Universe]

On 2/6/2021 at 8:20 AM, SoulMonster said:

Here's the index to the story so far: (1) 02. GLOBAL INDEX (a-4-d.com)

Some background info:

- To write the story so far I have read through more than 2000 articles comprising a database of more than 2,5 million words. That's a word file of 5302 pages written in font size 9.

- Throughout this abundance of material, Slash has on 57 different occasions made the disclaimer "all things considered" to make sure we understand he takes a holistic approach when considering stuff. No one else has said that.

- Steven has on different occasions graciously offered that Axl, Matt and Jizzy Pearl can kiss his ass. No one else has made that offer.

- Tracii for some reason doesn't disappear from the story but keeps inserting himself in various ways, lastly by suggesting he could replace Buckethead.

- Steven is entirely uninhibited and would in many ways been better off if the stroke had made him perfectly mute.

I have to ask, can you estimate the man hours you’ve placed into thing?

[SoulMonster]

5 hours ago, The Holographic Universe said:

I have to ask, can you estimate the man hours you’ve placed into thing?

Not without having to spend much time thinking about it - and I don't have time for that!

[Scream of the Butterfly]

On 2/11/2021 at 6:17 PM, Sisyphus said:

Great work. I was browsing through a few paragraphs and I came across a ridiculously ironic quote from Axl I completely forgot about. In a 1999 interview he said he had watched Slash "throw it all away" by playing with "everyone from Space Ghost to Michael Jackson" thus losing the "love and respect of the world." That's not what happened though whereas in the case of Axl ... 

 

I've never encountered anyone who doesn't like the work Slash did with Michael Jackson. It's some of his best work imo. Frankly, I think Axl was jealous.

[The Holographic Universe]

1 hour ago, Scream of the Butterfly said:

I've never encountered anyone who doesn't like the work Slash did with Michael Jackson. It's some of his best work imo. Frankly, I think Axl was jealous.

Slash playing with just about anybody in the 90’s made GNR cool because they weren’t stuck up rockers. Made me think Slash was a more open minded musician. 

[Sosso]

Steve Riley: "Me, Mick, Kelly  & Phil  always wondered why the guys in GUNS N ROSES  wouldn’t give Tracii the fucking time of day.  They wouldn’t even say hi to him!  I’d been in rooms where GNR was there with Slash and the guys - they wouldn’t even look at Tracii!  I always wondered, “What the fuck?  How could it be that bad?”  Now I know.  He’s burnt bridges so bad that people in a band that supposedly has his name in it- 

If you go back to this fucking behind the scenes thing or whatever they had on VH1 for GUNS N ROSES  - Me & Phil  were on tour, we were waiting ‘cause we had heard Tracii did a four hour interview over at CBGB’s.  And we were waiting that year for it to come out, and we saw it on the bus & were watching it.  The first 15 minutes were gonna have to contain Trace , ‘cause it’s the beginning - Nothing!  Zero!  They didn’t even mention this guy’s name, and I found out why.  When Duff  and Slash  & those guys saw Tracii’s piece, they said, “We don’t need this fucking guy!  He has nothing to do with fucking GUNS N ROSES!”  So now here’s the supposed “GUNS” from GUNS N ROSES  that’s not even mentioned in their fucking history, bio or nothing!  He’s not even mentioned – he’s nothing.  Unless somebody – a journalist- says that it started back then.  But as far as the band’s concerned, he has nothing to do with their history at all, and I always wondered “What the fuck?“

https://justhereforwasp.tumblr.com/post/133176262594/dancingundercover-rockaholicllama-the

[Sisyphus]

7 hours ago, Sosso said:

Steve Riley: "Me, Mick, Kelly  & Phil  always wondered why the guys in GUNS N ROSES  wouldn’t give Tracii the fucking time of day.  They wouldn’t even say hi to him!  I’d been in rooms where GNR was there with Slash and the guys - they wouldn’t even look at Tracii!  I always wondered, “What the fuck?  How could it be that bad?”  Now I know.  He’s burnt bridges so bad that people in a band that supposedly has his name in it- 

If you go back to this fucking behind the scenes thing or whatever they had on VH1 for GUNS N ROSES  - Me & Phil  were on tour, we were waiting ‘cause we had heard Tracii did a four hour interview over at CBGB’s.  And we were waiting that year for it to come out, and we saw it on the bus & were watching it.  The first 15 minutes were gonna have to contain Trace , ‘cause it’s the beginning - Nothing!  Zero!  They didn’t even mention this guy’s name, and I found out why.  When Duff  and Slash  & those guys saw Tracii’s piece, they said, “We don’t need this fucking guy!  He has nothing to do with fucking GUNS N ROSES!”  So now here’s the supposed “GUNS” from GUNS N ROSES  that’s not even mentioned in their fucking history, bio or nothing!  He’s not even mentioned – he’s nothing.  Unless somebody – a journalist- says that it started back then.  But as far as the band’s concerned, he has nothing to do with their history at all, and I always wondered “What the fuck?“

https://justhereforwasp.tumblr.com/post/133176262594/dancingundercover-rockaholicllama-the

In my opinion Tracii Guns is completely irrelevant in the Guns N' Roses story. His status of "original" Gunner really detracts Slash's role and it's just unfair. LA Guns is a third rate rock band so Tracii is using his virtually non-existent GN'R connection as his claim to fame.  

[Sisyphus]

14 hours ago, Scream of the Butterfly said:

I've never encountered anyone who doesn't like the work Slash did with Michael Jackson. It's some of his best work imo. Frankly, I think Axl was jealous.

I don't know if I'd call it some of his best work but being a big Michael Jackson fan myself I thought it was pretty cool. Jackson's Dangerous was very guitar driven and I sure as hell don't understand why working with the king of pop would be a disservice.

Come to think of it Axl's rise to the top and subsequent fall from grace has a lot of similarities with Jackson's albeit on a much much smaller scale. Jackson's popularity was just insane, unparalleled with the exception of The Beatles.

Edited February 13, 2021 by Sisyphus

[Rovim]

13 minutes ago, Sisyphus said:

I don't know if I'd call it some of his best work but being a big Michael Jackson fan myself I thought it was pretty cool. Jackson's Dangerous was very guitar driven and I sure as hell don't understand why working with the king of pop would be a disservice.

Come to think of it Axl's rise to the top and subsequent fall from grace has a lot of similarities with Jackson's albeit on a much much smaller scale. Jackson's popularity was just insanse, unparalleled with the exception of The Beatles.

I know Slash did a ton of work for other artists and some brilliant shit with Gn'R and even his own solo output. But I consider his work on Give In To Me as some of his best. It's subjective, of course, but it was of such a high quality and inspired plus I think it clicked with MJ's performance as well.

both solos were incredible imho. Tone, note choices, and just how dynamic the second solo is. I watched a Slash interview that was done by Ronnie Wood and Slash said Give In To Me was the best of the bunch from his sessions with MJ. It was obvious from his tone of voice that he was proud of the track.

Edited February 13, 2021 by Rovim

[SoulMonster]

9 hours ago, Sosso said:

Steve Riley: "Me, Mick, Kelly  & Phil  always wondered why the guys in GUNS N ROSES  wouldn’t give Tracii the fucking time of day.  They wouldn’t even say hi to him!  I’d been in rooms where GNR was there with Slash and the guys - they wouldn’t even look at Tracii!  I always wondered, “What the fuck?  How could it be that bad?”  Now I know.  He’s burnt bridges so bad that people in a band that supposedly has his name in it- 

If you go back to this fucking behind the scenes thing or whatever they had on VH1 for GUNS N ROSES  - Me & Phil  were on tour, we were waiting ‘cause we had heard Tracii did a four hour interview over at CBGB’s.  And we were waiting that year for it to come out, and we saw it on the bus & were watching it.  The first 15 minutes were gonna have to contain Trace , ‘cause it’s the beginning - Nothing!  Zero!  They didn’t even mention this guy’s name, and I found out why.  When Duff  and Slash  & those guys saw Tracii’s piece, they said, “We don’t need this fucking guy!  He has nothing to do with fucking GUNS N ROSES!”  So now here’s the supposed “GUNS” from GUNS N ROSES  that’s not even mentioned in their fucking history, bio or nothing!  He’s not even mentioned – he’s nothing.  Unless somebody – a journalist- says that it started back then.  But as far as the band’s concerned, he has nothing to do with their history at all, and I always wondered “What the fuck?“

https://justhereforwasp.tumblr.com/post/133176262594/dancingundercover-rockaholicllama-the

Tracii talked about this WH1 documentary:

Look, I reference mygnrforum in the excerpt above!

[Ratam]

8 hours ago, Rovim said:

I know Slash did a ton of work for other artists and some brilliant shit with Gn'R and even his own solo output. But I consider his work on Give In To Me as some of his best. It's subjective, of course, but it was of such a high quality and inspired plus I think it clicked with MJ's performance as well.

both solos were incredible imho. Tone, note choices, and just how dynamic the second solo is. I watched a Slash interview that was done by Ronnie Wood and Slash said Give In To Me was the best of the bunch from his sessions with MJ. It was obvious from his tone of voice that he was proud of the track.

I love " Give in to me"

[SoulMonster]

Another section added: 25. AUGUST 2004-MAY 2006: FINALIZING CHINESE DEMOCRACY; LAWSUITS; RETURN TO NYC (a-4-d.com)

This deals with the period from August 2004 until May 2006. People got to hear more of the elusive Chinese Democracy through various leaks, band members indicated that only some vocals and mixing remained. Axl returned to the spotlight in 2006. A replacement for Buckethead was finally found in Bumblefoot. Velvet Revolver toured and started to splinter. Slash paid a nightime visit to Axl's house. But denied it happened. Media speculated that VR was about to break up and Slash to rejoin GN'R, Axl feuded with Scott Weiland. The air was aflush with lawsuits. Slash announced a release date for Chinese Democracy. Axl scathingly attacked Duff and Slash. And a 2006 summer tour was planned with the first warm-up show played in NYC.

I am currently going through articles from December 2006, so not much time between the story and where I am with the research, hence some of the chapters are a bit thin. They will be fattened up as I continue reading and adding new quotes and text - so don't you worry. I have also added lots more info to previous chapters.

Index to history section:  GLOBAL INDEX (a-4-d.com)

Index to interview database: INTERVIEW AND ARTICLE INDEX (a-4-d.com)

[SoulMonster]

Another section added: MAY-DECEMBER 2006 - TOURING; IZZY RETURNS AND AXL FIGHTS

This covers the period from May 2006 until the end of the year. A fairly short period as these sections go but lots of events... and action. Guns N' Roses toured in Europe and North America to mostly great reviews. Izzy even joined the band for many of the shows, granting some legitimacy to the new version of the band. Axl seemingly compensated for his recent years of peaceful withdrawal from the public eye by being extra Axl and got into fist fights with Tommy Hilfiger and a security guard at Bern Hotel, dissed Eagles of Death Metal, and parted ways with his manager Merck Mercuriadis. The latter likely came as a result of Chinese Democracy not being released in 2006, despite numerous assurances from both Axl and Merck that it would be ("13 Tuesday", and all that). Brain had his final show with the band and Frank replaced him. 

At the same time lots were happening in the Velvet Revolver camp, but this is covered in previous chapters that I update continuously. @Blackstarhas as always unearthed lots of new articles and comments, and I keep updating previous chapters with new information. An example being detailed information from Michael Bland who auditioned for the band in early 1998 and very soon updated information on Axl shooting that pig in 1989 (yep, it is confirmed it happened).

[DurhamGirl]

Wow the work you are putting into this is just extrodinary!  Such an interesting read especially as the board is pretty void of posts at the moment.  Thankyou for your hard work it is extremely appreciated.

[SoulMonster]

Did an overhaul of the section describing everything that led up to GN'R: https://www.a-4-d.com/t4926-04-before-guns-n-roses If this period is of interest to you, there is probably some new stuff of interest there. 

Also working on a section for 2007-2008, but this will likely take me a few more weeks.

[Nice Boy]

The a4d website is easily one of, if not the best resource there exists for the history of GnR. In terms of actual academic history I guess it's what they'd call a primary source collection, of quotes from the actual people who were there rather than just a secondary commentator giving opinion on the subject. 

[SoulMonster]

16 hours ago, Nice Boy said:

The a4d website is easily one of, if not the best resource there exists for the history of GnR. In terms of actual academic history I guess it's what they'd call a primary source collection, of quotes from the actual people who were there rather than just a secondary commentator giving opinion on the subject. 

Thank you. Yes, that's exactly my aim. In the words of Slash when he was abut to release his biography:

The only reason I wrote it is because a lot of the stuff I was reading and seeing about the band got pretty frustrating. I just had to straighten out some s--t. -E! Online, August 29, 2007.
Finally, I started to realize all this Guns hype that goes on, all this bull--- that surrounds that band, it’s inaccurate, and most isn’t even inaccurate, it’s just made up. I got fed up with it. - Billboard/Reuters, October 14, 2007
But because there's still so much attention given to Guns N’ Roses, and all the controversy, the breakup, and Axl’s new record, me and Axl’s relationship, and all this stuff, people have been just taking artistic license to make up whatever they want. Nobody monitors it, there's no control over it, and people just, sort of like, make up what they think would be really entertaining to write - you know, for whatever reason. And there's also a lot of rumors that are perpetuated by the media [...] - The Brody Blog, November 5, 2007
The sole motivation for the book was to straighten out a lot of the myths about Guns N' Roses that are still prevalent on the Internet and in unauthorized biographies. - San Diego Union Tribune, February 7, 2008
The amount of misinformation that is taken in stock on the Internet and the media at large just got to be really overwhelming. - KNAC, February 2, 2008

I am not saying our history section presents the truth, but it does present what the band members have actually said and what has been written about them. And then people can make up their own minds.

[SoulMonster]

Another section added, covering January 2007 to June 2008. A period where the band did a bit more touring, numerous leaks took place that together with other hints suggested the release of Chinese Democracy was actually about to happen; Robin left the band...again (which would pave the way for the only and only Dj Ashba!); Dr. Pepper launched an ad campaign (which would later get them in a bit of trouble); and Slash and Marc Canter released books, the former despite acknowledging he couldn't really remember much.

You can read it here: 27. JANUARY 2007-JUNE 2008 - LEAKS AND TOURING (a-4-d.com)

Consider all chapters works-in-progress.

On a side note: If we were to publish the entire history section at A4D in book form, it would make a tome of more than 2300 pages (font size 11) with about 920,000 words. More likely, a publisher -- more fond of completeness than profits -- would ask to divide this into a book series of 8-9 books. ...And I still have 13 more years of articles and interviews to comb through. This will be massive.

On a different side note: If anyone sees any references to A4D and the work @Blackstarand I are doing over there, like credits in books or videos, please let me know. It would be satisfying to know anyone is actually using this wealth of information to increase the quality of whatever they publish on Guns N' Roses.

 

[Ratam]

11 hours ago, SoulMonster said:

Another section added, covering January 2007 to June 2008. A period where the band did a bit more touring, numerous leaks took place that together with other hints suggested the release of Chinese Democracy was actually about to happen; Robin left the band...again (which would pave the way for the only and only Dj Ashba!); Dr. Pepper launched an ad campaign (which would later get them in a bit of trouble); and Slash and Marc Canter released books, the former despite acknowledging he couldn't really remember much.

You can read it here: 27. JANUARY 2007-JUNE 2008 - LEAKS AND TOURING (a-4-d.com)

Consider all chapters works-in-progress.

On a side note: If we were to publish the entire history section at A4D in book form, it would make a tome of more than 2300 pages (font size 11) with about 920,000 words. More likely, a publisher -- more fond of completeness than profits -- would ask to divide this into a book series of 8-9 books. ...And I still have 13 more years of articles and interviews to comb through. This will be massive.

On a different side note: If anyone sees any references to A4D and the work @Blackstarand I are doing over there, like credits in books or videos, please let me know. It would be satisfying to know anyone is actually using this wealth of information to increase the quality of whatever they publish on Guns N' Roses.

 

It book will have more page that Bible has.

[SoulMonster]

24 minutes ago, Ratam said:

It book will have more page that Bible has.

And make a lot more sense

[Ratam]

1 minute ago, SoulMonster said:

And make a lot more sense

Yess, you can now just to take advantage cause Diesel Daisy isn't  here anymore....

[SoulMonster]

Hi guys. I just added another section: August 2008-February 2009: Chinese Democracy is finally released. This obviously deals with the release of Chinese Democracy and everything around it, including promotion, sales, reactions, reviews, etc. Also in other news: Velvet Revolver kind of collapsed and Chris released his sextapes.

I am currently working on articles and newspapers for late 2009, so expect lots of additional info to be added to this section as I move forward in time. Some parts are a bit thin (like the merch chapter and Frank's chapter), but they will be fattened up in due course.

 

[Sosso]

"It's got a great drummer" Duff about Brain 

I would have loved to see them in the Band together 

Edited July 4, 2021 by Sosso

[sliverjazz]

Don't forget that part about Axl's preference for Blue colored M&M's being served in the locker room... Or is that some other band on the top of my head? You could fill a whole chapter on that.

[SoulMonster]

Hi guys,

Just finished adding another section, covering February 2009 to April 2010: FEBRUARY 2009-APRIL 2010: DJ JOINS THE BAND; TOURING CHINESE DEMOCRACY (a-4-d.com)

 This period after the release of Chinese Democracy was dominated by rumours about the band touring to support the album, followed by the actual touring which covered selected shows in Asia (2009) and then legs in Canada and Latin America (2010) - a tour we fans tend to look back at with fond memories. But the period wasn't entirely without controversies: Axl knocked down a paparazzi at LAX and there were rumours about the band banning Slash apparel at their shows (rumours that started on this vey forum), which were then picked up by the press and then culminated in Axl posting an abrasive attack on a fan site moderator (madison, again at this very forum). The band also parted ways with Front Line Management (resulting in the band being sued by Irving Azoff; which would later result in Axl counter-suing) and took Doc McGee as the new management (although Paul Stanley wasn't so sure about that). And oh yeah, Dj Ashba was hired to replace Robin and quickly demonstrated his business acumen.

Of course life didn't stand still for the alumni either, Slash worked on his solo album (covered in a previous chapter in another section) and had his own problems (Crucify The Dead and collaborating with Cypress Hill ) while Duff toured with Loaded and then got involved with Jane's Addiction because, you know, a man has to earn a living (also covered in earlier chapters). Velvet Revolver was officially on "hiatus". Steven got to record with Slash for his solo record.

I have now also added individual chapters for each of the songs off CD, and plan to do it for each released GN'R song. The song chapters are scattered throughout the history section but generally speaking they are either placed chronologically when the song was released (if released as a single) or when the song was debuted live (if it was ever played live) or as I see fit (if never released as a single or played live). Hence, songs from CD will have their own chapters starting in 2001 and going all the way to the touring in 2010.

Edited July 25, 2021 by SoulMonster

[Tom2112]

8 hours ago, SoulMonster said:

Hi guys,

Just finished adding another section, covering February 2009 to April 2010: FEBRUARY 2009-APRIL 2010: DJ JOINS THE BAND; TOURING CHINESE DEMOCRACY (a-4-d.com)

 This period after the release of Chinese Democracy was dominated by rumours about the band touring to support the album, followed by the actual touring which covered selected shows in Asia (2009) and then legs in Canada and Latin America (2010) - a tour we fans tend to look back at with fond memories. But the period wasn't entirely without controversies: Axl knocked down a paparazzi at LAX and there were rumours about the band banning Slash apparel at their shows (rumours that started on this vey forum), which were then picked up by the press and then culminated in Axl posting an abrasive attack on a fan site moderator (madison, again at this very forum). The band also parted ways with Front Line Management (resulting in the band being sued by Irving Azoff; which would later result in Axl counter-suing) and took Doc McGee as the new management (although Paul Stanley wasn't so sure about that). And oh yeah, Dj Ashba was hired to replace Robin and quickly demonstrated his business acumen.

Of course life didn't stand still for the alumni either, Slash worked on his solo album (covered in a previous chapter in another section) and had his own problems (Crucify The Dead and collaborating with Cypress Hill ) while Duff toured with Loaded and then got involved with Jane's Addiction because, you know, a man has to earn a living (also covered in earlier chapters). Velvet Revolver was officially on "hiatus". Steven got to record with Slash for his solo record.

I have now also added individual chapters for each of the songs off CD, and plan to do it for each released GN'R song. The song chapters are scattered throughout the history section but generally speaking they are either placed chronologically when the song was released (if released as a single) or when the song was debuted live (if it was ever played live) or as I see fit (if never released as a single or played live). Hence, songs from CD will have their own chapters starting in 2001 and going all the way to the touring in 2010.

Wasn't Doc Mcghee mentioned as being backstage in one of the rare Axl interviews? I don't know if Axl made that up... but I'd guess Doc got scared when Paul called and said "It's us or them".