Slash and Paul Huge

[Voodoochild]

32 minutes ago, Blackstar said:

I don't know, I guess the attitude issue had a lot to do with Paul defending Axl and acting like his representative in the studio. Duff didn't have nice things to say about him in his own book either. Matt got into fights with him. He wrote in the leaked book that he tried to bully Paul into quitting when Axl wasn't there, then Paul went and told Axl about it.

It also seems that Tommy (probably Robin, too) didn't rate him, at least at first:

Tommy: I came in around ’98, when the band was still writing the record. It was Paul Tobias and Robin Finck on guitar, Dizzy Reed and Chris Pitman on keys, Josh on drums, and me. Everybody was just slowly starting to bring in ideas. We were set up at Rumbo Records, a big studio out in the middle of nowhere. A funny thing – Captain & Tennille own it. The whole thing looks like a boat.
Anyway, we all just started hammering ideas out. Essentially, it was eight guys collaborating. To be thrown into that kind of environment – eight guys from very different walks of life – was very crazy. I’d never worked in that way, but it was cool. There were guys who’d never ever made a record putting out their ideas. At first, those of us who’d actually made records thought their ideas sucked, but there were also some good ones.

https://www.a-4-d.com/t3488-2009-04-dd-bass-player-tommy-stinson-the-ultimate-replacement-talks-tone-turmoil

I know this quote, but really, it's a bit tricky. Robin didn't record songs with NIN either. Dizzy had no creative input on the Illusions, so every other GNR song he had recorded by then was a cover. Pitman did anything? I don't know, and I'm not sure he would've come with really conventional ideas other than a cool simple riff like If The World. Tommy himself and Josh were the only ones with some studio experience for creating a song in a collective environment.

Then again, Paul did wrote stuff before (I would love to know much, so he knew how to write songs and ideas. Also, I don't think Bucket recorded at the Rumbo, so I'm not counting on him.

Do you remember or have a quote from Duff about Paul?

26 minutes ago, Blackstar said:

Yes, that is Paul's first ever (sort of) public comment. He also said that the fans wouldn't like what he'd have to say anyway, because they prefer to believe "their idols" (Slash, Duff and Matt).

I've tried to reach Tavana on Twitter. Will post if I get any reply. 

39 minutes ago, WhazUp said:

Honestly I think it was just a mish mash of big egos and every single one of them had attitude problems back then lol.  Axl should have talked to the lead guitarist in his band more about consulting and going through together who should be the rhythm guitarist, Slash should have probably come in with a better attitude about it all, Paul apparently rubbed Slash and Matt the wrong way with his attitude( Paul badmouthing Slash led Matt to yell at him, thus Axl's firing of him that day)

And Paul's overdubs on Slash's solo should never have happened without Slash greenlighting how he wanted his own solo to be represented

All I know though is, as a guitar player, nobody is telling me what other guitarist I am going to be playing with or writing with, without my own input on the matter

Don't buy Matt's history at all. All of this could have very well happen, but knowing how he twists everything because he feels so entitled, I wouldn't be shocked if Matt were already screwing with Axl and Paul, thus leading to his firing. 

I agree with what you said about being a guitar player. Just wonder if Slash just shrugged and accepted Paul at first, but then changed his mind and had to fight about it. In fact, I wonder why Axl or even Slash himself felt the need to bring a second guitar player to write with at all. 

[MaskingApathy]

I thought Axl brought Paul in because he was trying to recreate the Izzy thing. 

[Blackstar]

25 minutes ago, ZoSoRose said:

Whatever, it’s their band. If slash didn’t want him in that is reason enough

Slash didn't want to write with Paul, Axl didn't want to write with Gilby, and there was no compromise.

Then Axl brought in Zakk Wylde, knowing that Slash liked him, but that didn't work either. So dead end.

[Blackstar]

3 minutes ago, MaskingApathy said:

I thought Axl brought Paul in because he was trying to recreate the Izzy thing. 

Yes, I think that was definitely part of it, too.

[Sosso]

@Voodoochild Chris has released an album with the band Lusk. Axl listened to the album and brought him to GN'R.

 Patti Hood played a couple of tracks on the Lusk album. 

 

[Tom2112]

2 hours ago, MaskingApathy said:

When was this? 

Before Fortus was in the band, he was somehow clued in that GNR were doing auditions and said I don't want that gig, get me a FF audition. paraphrased a bit

[MaskingApathy]

Just now, Tom2112 said:

Before Fortus was in the band, he was somehow clued in that GNR were doing auditions and said I don't want that gig, get me a FF audition. paraphrased a bit

Maybe he figured he was a better fit for FF at the time. Would be interesting to see how he would approach GnR songs now though.

[Tom2112]

Just now, MaskingApathy said:

Maybe he figured he was a better fit for FF at the time. Would be interesting to see how he would approach GnR songs now though.

I think GNR were too uncool at the time. Definitely suits FF far better.

[Voodoochild]

13 minutes ago, Sosso said:

@Voodoochild Chris has released an album with the band Lusk. Axl listened to the album and brought him to GN'R.

 Patti Hood played a couple of tracks on the Lusk album. 

 

Did he have writing credits?

Not trying to diss the guy, I know he was an asshole all around. Just not sure how much he actually brought to the melody and song structures on CD. 

[BadApples87]

Paul was a douche when he came into the fold.  Slash didn't want to work with him, he wanted Gilby.  Slash was right.  Gilby Pawnshop Guitars is better than Chinese Democracy.

[Martin Riggs]

3 hours ago, Sosso said:

 

Paul had writing credits for Shadow of Your Love and Back off, Bitch. Two of the best classic GN'R songs. 

 

[Blackstar]

1 hour ago, Voodoochild said:

Do you remember or have a quote from Duff about Paul?

Actually Duff himself has given two different versions. In the first one in an interview from 2000, he basically aligned with Slash's version. In his book he presented it a little differently, though. On a kind of funny side note, another difference between that interview and his book (as well as his Seattle Weekly column) is about who from the band was there for him when his pancreas quit: in the interview he said it was Slash, and in his column and book he said that Axl went to Seattle to visit him when he was sick, while Slash was dealing with his own issues.

The quote from the 2000 interview:

Duff: [Being asked how he quit]: Yeah, just talk, sit down and talk. I told them I had changed. I said if they needed help, they could just call me. I told Axl this was his band, he had ignored everyone and had hired his best friend for the band. I couldn't play with him. Paul Huge, that was the guy! He's a friend of Axl, he's a 'yes man'. […] Man, you can't be in Guns N' Roses just like that. That was a real band. […]  imagine you and I grow up together and you're my best friend. OK, I'm in Guns N' Roses and I tell the rest you're going to join the band. "OK, Slash, Axl, Matt, guys, this guy is in the band". "Duff, you got a minute?" "No, he's in the band" "Well, no. Everyone in the band has to vote it, Duff, so no way!" "Fuck you, this guy is in the band! I'm not doing anything unless this guy is in the band" "OK, you know what? We'll try and play with him, since you're that much interested in it. Hey Duff, the guy can't play" "I don't care" "Well that's not very reasonable." "I don't care" At that point, what would you do? I came to a point where I couldn't even look at him [Paul]. If I were in such a situation, if I were the friend joining the band, I'd say "Hey guys, you've done very good yourselves alone, I'm not going any further. Hey, Duff, thanks for the offer, but I'm breaking your band." But he didn't say it [Popular 1, July 2000]

From his autobiography (2011):

Duff: Then Axl wanted to bring in a guy named Paul Huge. “You want to bring in your old buddy from Indiana?” Slash said incredulously. “Look, he’ll just jam with us and maybe it’ll work out,” Axl said. “No,” both Slash and I said. “Yes,” said Axl. This wasn’t some wedding band you could just bring friends into. If I wasn’t going to bend for the sake of one of my best friends—Slash, and his Southern-rock songs—I sure as hell wasn’t going to let a stranger come in and fuck around with Guns. “Fine,” Axl said. “How’s this: you guys try him out on your own, give him a few days.” We let him come in. Gave him a couple of days. It was hopeless. We told Axl. “Fuck you guys,” he said. That was pretty much it for Slash.

42 minutes ago, Voodoochild said:

Did he have writing credits?

Not trying to diss the guy, I know he was an asshole all around. Just not sure how much he actually brought to the melody and song structures on CD. 

He had:

https://www.discogs.com/Lusk-Free-Mars/release/2140619

 

[Voodoochild]

10 minutes ago, Blackstar said:

Actually Duff himself has given two different versions. In the first one in an interview from 2000, he basically aligned with Slash's version. In his book he presented it a little differently, though. On a kind of funny side note, another difference between that interview and his book (as well as his Seattle Weekly column) is about who from the band was there for him when his pancreas quit: in the interview he said it was Slash, and in his column and book he said that Axl went to Seattle to visit him when he was sick, while Slash was dealing with his own issues.

The quote from the 2000 interview:

Duff: [Being asked how he quit]: Yeah, just talk, sit down and talk. I told them I had changed. I said if they needed help, they could just call me. I told Axl this was his band, he had ignored everyone and had hired his best friend for the band. I couldn't play with him. Paul Huge, that was the guy! He's a friend of Axl, he's a 'yes man'. […] Man, you can't be in Guns N' Roses just like that. That was a real band. […]  imagine you and I grow up together and you're my best friend. OK, I'm in Guns N' Roses and I tell the rest you're going to join the band. "OK, Slash, Axl, Matt, guys, this guy is in the band". "Duff, you got a minute?" "No, he's in the band" "Well, no. Everyone in the band has to vote it, Duff, so no way!" "Fuck you, this guy is in the band! I'm not doing anything unless this guy is in the band" "OK, you know what? We'll try and play with him, since you're that much interested in it. Hey Duff, the guy can't play" "I don't care" "Well that's not very reasonable." "I don't care" At that point, what would you do? I came to a point where I couldn't even look at him [Paul]. If I were in such a situation, if I were the friend joining the band, I'd say "Hey guys, you've done very good yourselves alone, I'm not going any further. Hey, Duff, thanks for the offer, but I'm breaking your band." But he didn't say it [Popular 1, July 2000]

From his autobiography (2011):

Duff: Then Axl wanted to bring in a guy named Paul Huge. “You want to bring in your old buddy from Indiana?” Slash said incredulously. “Look, he’ll just jam with us and maybe it’ll work out,” Axl said. “No,” both Slash and I said. “Yes,” said Axl. This wasn’t some wedding band you could just bring friends into. If I wasn’t going to bend for the sake of one of my best friends—Slash, and his Southern-rock songs—I sure as hell wasn’t going to let a stranger come in and fuck around with Guns. “Fine,” Axl said. “How’s this: you guys try him out on your own, give him a few days.” We let him come in. Gave him a couple of days. It was hopeless. We told Axl. “Fuck you guys,” he said. That was pretty much it for Slash.

He had:

https://www.discogs.com/Lusk-Free-Mars/release/2140619

 

Those are some awesome quotes. Your job here is truly amazing.

It's really weird how Slash and Duff portrait the situation. Had Axl tried to shoehorn Paul by blackmailing them, this could easily be disputed on trial. It's the same logic behind the GNR naming rights. 

Also, never understood why Paul was so hopeless to work with. I understand if they just didn't like the idea and then had nothing personal against him, but it seems to me that it was all very personal. As if he was "breaking the band", which sounds ridiculous to me.

 

[Gunner Gilby]

3 hours ago, Tom2112 said:

But was Paul or Gilby hired to play solos? no, they were capable of playing the Izzy role. Not saying they are as good writers as Izzy but his parts could at least be replicated. When I listen to gnr live 99-02 I don't think "oh hell, Paul is all over the place" he sounded fine to me and I'm critical and wasn't a fan of his because I fully went along with Slash's version of events.

Lol. When you listen to GNR 99-02? Paul played on Oh My God in 99 and played two shows before deciding he didn't like playing live and quit in 01. Seven years later when Chinese Dem came out, you can't even hear Paul's guitar parts.

For the way things played out Paul could've just collaborated as a co songwriter, Gilby needn't have been fired and Slash would never have quit.

[Blackstar]

16 minutes ago, Voodoochild said:

Those are some awesome quotes. Your job here is truly amazing.

It's really weird how Slash and Duff portrait the situation. Had Axl tried to shoehorn Paul by blackmailing them, this could easily be disputed on trial. It's the same logic behind the GNR naming rights. 

Also, never understood why Paul was so hopeless to work with. I understand if they just didn't like the idea and then had nothing personal against him, but it seems to me that it was all very personal. As if he was "breaking the band", which sounds ridiculous to me.

Yes, it does seem personal. That's also evident from Slash's interviews of the time, where he'd say, "I hate that guy" and "That idiot Paul".

That's why I think it really had something to do with Paul's attitude. Duff said Paul was a "yes man." If, for example, Paul went to the studio acting like Axl's representative and telling them something like "Axl wants this" or "he wants this to be played like that," then they said something and then Paul defended Axl, I understand why they'd be pissed off.

It would be very interesting to know what Izzy thinks of Paul, since they've known each other from Indiana.

[SoulMonster]

1 hour ago, Sosso said:

@Voodoochild Chris has released an album with the band Lusk. Axl listened to the album and brought him to GN'R.

 Patti Hood played a couple of tracks on the Lusk album. 

Which is why Chris suggested Patti for the harp on This I Love. This is tangential to the discussion on Paul, but it has amazed me a bit to learn how involved Chris was in the practical business of recording Chinese Democracy. Whereas Tommy might have been the general in the recording studio, Chris did a lot of work outside to make things happen.

[Gunner Gilby]

1 hour ago, BadApples87 said:

Paul was a douche when he came into the fold.  Slash didn't want to work with him, he wanted Gilby.  Slash was right.  Gilby Pawnshop Guitars is better than Chinese Democracy.

Yeah and Gilby was a experienced song writer. He'd written and recorded in his own band's Candy and Kill For Thrills. His solo album Pawnshop Guitars was well received. He went on to be in and write with Snakepit.

Why Gilby was really fired is cos he stood up to Axl and told him three guitarists was a stupid idea.

[SoulMonster]

Went to bed last night after having read the first 4-5 posts in this thread, formulated a post before falling a sleep. Waking up to see @Blackstarhas written it all...and then some! 

But yeah, there was definitely a personality clash going but I am convinced Slash's animosity towards Paul got exaggerated by the fact that he was already to opposed to Axl. Paul, poor guy, got in the middle of that conflict and from the quotes he didn't seem to have navigated the tender situation very diplomatically. And what a fucking bitch that Paul can't talk, I would have loved to hear his version of the events, and not only about the conflict with Slash, but the period after, the nascent new lineup, the first shows in 2001, and his role since then. He is such a big piece of the puzzle in this fascinating period, but he refuses to talk, hiding behind the NDA.

[Blackstar]

15 minutes ago, Gunner Gilby said:

Lol. When you listen to GNR 99-02? Paul played on Oh My God in 99 and played two shows before deciding he didn't like playing live and quit in 01. Seven years later when Chinese Dem came out, you can't even hear Paul's guitar parts.

For the way things played out Paul could've just collaborated as a co songwriter, Gilby needn't have been fired and Slash would never have quit.

It seems Gilby didn't like at all the idea of himself being the "side" or "third" guy and the band writing with someone else, and that there was a heated conversation between him and Axl (and before that, there was the conflict over the Snakepit songs in which Gilby sided with Slash, since he had helped write those songs). Then it's not exactly clear what happened. Gilby stopped getting paychecks. He was supposedly fired, but not officially. It's possible that Axl perceived that conversation as Gilby quitting and that was it. In a recent interview Gilby said he doesn't know if he was fired after all, and only Axl knows

[mystery]

6 hours ago, Dean said:

Tobias is a fucking great songwriter, going by what we've heard on Chinese. He's all over it and it's a safe bet to assume Slash will be playing a lot of his tunes on the next record.

Ironic isn't it?

[SoulMonster]

4 minutes ago, mystery said:

Ironic isn't it?

I'd even say it's absurd.

[Sosso]

2 hours ago, SoulMonster said:

Went to bed last night after having read the first 4-5 posts in this thread, formulated a post before falling a sleep. Waking up to see @Blackstarhas written it all...and then some! 

But yeah, there was definitely a personality clash going but I am convinced Slash's animosity towards Paul got exaggerated by the fact that he was already to opposed to Axl. Paul, poor guy, got in the middle of that conflict and from the quotes he didn't seem to have navigated the tender situation very diplomatically. And what a fucking bitch that Paul can't talk, I would have loved to hear his version of the events, and not only about the conflict with Slash, but the period after, the nascent new lineup, the first shows in 2001, and his role since then. He is such a big piece of the puzzle in this fascinating period, but he refuses to talk, hiding behind the NDA.

I would like to know how much he has recorded in the studio since 2002. I mean, Axl made it sound like he remained a studio member and just quit touring. 

Edited August 21, 2021 by Sosso

[Dean]

16 minutes ago, mystery said:

Ironic isn't it?

"It's like raaaaaaaaaaaain..."

[Martin Riggs]

3 minutes ago, mystery said:

Ironic isn't it?

It’s ironic how Axl brought Paul in to supposedly try to recreate the Izzy dynamic..a guy who left mainly because of Axl’s diva antics and general ridiculousness. This genius dictatorial personnel move then led to a complete implosion of the band. I could only laugh when he tried to defend himself at the MTV awards in 2002 or whenever when he was asked why new music was taking so long. He said something about how he had to rebuild everything from scratch and it was a difficult task. It’s like the arsonist complaining that the house is burned down. 

[mystery]

Axl was making excuses in that 1999 interview with Kurt Loder, still crazy that he was doing so almost 3 years later. I'll always believe the band should've taken a hiatus at the start of 1994. Axl was creatively and emotionally spent and was on a way different plane than the other members in regards to new music.