Perhaps - New Guns N' Roses Single - Discussion

[Blackstar]

18 minutes ago, rebeldhipi said:

Except  Josh has a 1% writing credit for HardSkool. 

Tommy, Robin and Paul have 3,8% each.

Which suggests that their contributions were probably minimal*. It was most likely written in 1996 and then NuGnR members helped with the arrangement.

* Edit: we don't know if the 11.5% is equally split between Robin, Tommy and Paul.

Edited August 27, 2023 by Blackstar

[colonizedmind]

49 minutes ago, Blackstar said:

Which suggests that their contributions were probably minimal*. It was most likely written in 1996 and then NuGnR members helped with the arrangement.

* Edit: we don't know if the 11.5% is equally split between Robin, Tommy and Paul.

Should buy them a couple of packs of Generals Chicken to get the party started when the basement Nu-Old-GNR reunions kickoff every Chinese New Year...

Edited August 27, 2023 by colonizedmind

[evilfacelessturtle]

12 hours ago, Blackstar said:

Which suggests that their contributions were probably minimal*. It was most likely written in 1996 and then NuGnR members helped with the arrangement.

* Edit: we don't know if the 11.5% is equally split between Robin, Tommy and Paul.

Hardskool was not written in 1996. Anyone who knows Slash's riff based writing style can tell that is a NuGNR song through and through.

[Blackstar]

34 minutes ago, evilfacelessturtle said:

Hardskool was not written in 1996. Anyone who knows Slash's riff based writing style can tell that is a NuGNR song through and through.

Being written in 1996 doesn't mean that Slash was necessarily involved in writing it. Matt referred to the Jackie Chan song as a song "Axl had", which suggests that it was something Axl was working on by himself and not with the band. And according to the writing credits, it was written mostly by Axl.

1995-96 was a strange period. Apart from the few (basically only two) band sessions with Slash during that whole time, there were separate sessions: Duff and Izzy, Duff on his own, Duff and Matt, Axl on his own, Axl with Paul Tobias, Dizzy and Dizzy's friends (the so called "shadow band").

We have enough information and clues now to say almost with certainty that Hard Skool dates from 1995/96.

Edited August 28, 2023 by Blackstar

[El Guapo]

It's totaly possible that Axl himself came up with the basic three chord progression of Hardskool's main riff. 

It's not like something as, say, By the Sword, where you can just hear it was written by a guitarist.

[Lethalis]

32 minutes ago, El Guapo said:

It's totaly possible that Axl himself came up with the basic three chord progression of Hardskool's main riff. 

It's not like something as, say, By the Sword, where you can just hear it was written by a guitarist.

By The Sword has a sweet Slash solo on it... nice, totally forgot about that song. Even though I think Myles Kennedy is a very nice person, I also think it's great Slash will work with other vocalists again on his next solo album.

This song with Andrew Stockdale shows us why.

 

[Tom2112]

20 hours ago, Blackstar said:

Which suggests that their contributions were probably minimal*. It was most likely written in 1996 and then NuGnR members helped with the arrangement.

* Edit: we don't know if the 11.5% is equally split between Robin, Tommy and Paul.

If this was the case (not saying it isn't) why have they just framed Perhaps as the first original composition since the early 90s. It makes no sense that an actual song that Slash actually wrote wouldn't be the headline, and that when Slash was talking about it that he wouldn't mention "oh yeah we were messing with this song in the 90s before I left". 

My thoughts is that this was one of many songs that were written by the CD era babd and they just forgot about it as it was 20yrs ago. It's not the most memorable piece of music tbf.

[Blackstar]

22 minutes ago, Tom2112 said:

If this was the case (not saying it isn't) why have they just framed Perhaps as the first original composition since the early 90s. It makes no sense that an actual song that Slash actually wrote wouldn't be the headline, and that when Slash was talking about it that he wouldn't mention "oh yeah we were messing with this song in the 90s before I left". 

My thoughts is that this was one of many songs that were written by the CD era babd and they just forgot about it as it was 20yrs ago. It's not the most memorable piece of music tbf.

Yes, Perhaps seems to be from the CD era or if it was written earlier it didn't have anything to do with Slash, just like Hard Skool.

That was probably something their publicist just made up to market Perhaps. Or maybe they were told that Perhaps was recorded this year (meaning some of the rehashed parts) and they made it to be "written and recorded". I don't know since when GN'R has been working with this PR company. Maybe they are new and didn't even know about Absurd and Hard Skool, lol.

[Voodoochild]

5 minutes ago, Blackstar said:

Yes, Perhaps seems to be from the CD era or if it was written earlier it didn't have anything to do with Slash, just like Hard Skool.

That was probably something their publicist just made up to market Perhaps. Or maybe they were told that Perhaps was recorded this year (meaning some of the rehashed parts) and they made it to be "written and recorded". I don't know since when GN'R has been working with this PR company. Maybe they are new and didn't even know about Absurd and Hard Skool, lol.

I imagine the band and the PR mgmt having this conversation:

- So will you guys write and release a new song?

- Perhaps.

[colonizedmind]

2 hours ago, Blackstar said:

Yes, Perhaps seems to be from the CD era or if it was written earlier it didn't have anything to do with Slash, just like Hard Skool.

That was probably something their publicist just made up to market Perhaps. Or maybe they were told that Perhaps was recorded this year (meaning some of the rehashed parts) and they made it to be "written and recorded". I don't know since when GN'R has been working with this PR company. Maybe they are new and didn't even know about Absurd and Hard Skool, lol.

The eternal optimist take is...Perhaps wasn't one of the initial tracks Duff and Slash reworked and mentioned in interviews last year and before....perhaps they really did go back and do a few more earlier this year and that statement becomes accurate, that it was this year.... For a reason we don't know yet....to put out an extended EP? Maybe, we hope! 

The argument for that is, HS and Absurd sound a certain way but Perhaps seems to be mixed a bit better and at the very least was still being worked out this year....that studio session (and possibly others we don't know about cause no photo was posted) where they were listening to mixes...was it Perhaps? Was Perhaps and The General? Were these part of the initial batch that S&D did? He did say that the other ones coming didn't have quite the history that Hard Skool had....I mean Slash knows the lore by now....he'll know The General is basically the most infamous unreleased track....so Perhaps it hadn't been done when he spoke to Trunk....I know people be like, whatever, but why not? We can't presume everything we get told is the only things that actual are happening BTS...I know the world is like pics or didn't happen these days....but for exactly that reason, we would have folk banging on about how Axl's never in a studio, if it wasn't for a simple couple of photos this year....Work a bunch of songs, work some more later....there's more than 6 tracks (including what we've got so far) with vocals, so time (Axl time of course) will tell....but I think a compromise is a fair thought?

Since they did one last year, is an extended EP (possibly with live tracks....Slither teased already) could be on its way at some point....that's not unreasonable is it?

Edited August 28, 2023 by colonizedmind

[Tom2112]

34 minutes ago, Blackstar said:

Yes, Perhaps seems to be from the CD era or if it was written earlier it didn't have anything to do with Slash, just like Hard Skool.

That was probably something their publicist just made up to market Perhaps. Or maybe they were told that Perhaps was recorded this year (meaning some of the rehashed parts) and they made it to be "written and recorded". I don't know since when GN'R has been working with this PR company. Maybe they are new and didn't even know about Absurd and Hard Skool, lol.

This makes the most sense! One end not talking to the other is gnr business, and business is good!

[Blackstar]

11 hours ago, Lethalis said:

By The Sword has a sweet Slash solo on it... nice, totally forgot about that song. Even though I think Myles Kennedy is a very nice person, I also think it's great Slash will work with other vocalists again on his next solo album.

This song with Andrew Stockdale shows us why.

Axl reportedly liked By The Sword. If the anecdote about that is true, I could guess that the solo was what he liked the most.

[Free Bird]

5 hours ago, colonizedmind said:

The eternal optimist take is...Perhaps wasn't one of the initial tracks Duff and Slash reworked and mentioned in interviews last year and before....perhaps they really did go back and do a few more earlier this year and that statement becomes accurate, that it was this year.... For a reason we don't know yet....to put out an extended EP? Maybe, we hope! 

The argument for that is, HS and Absurd sound a certain way but Perhaps seems to be mixed a bit better and at the very least was still being worked out this year....that studio session (and possibly others we don't know about cause no photo was posted) where they were listening to mixes...was it Perhaps? Was Perhaps and The General? Were these part of the initial batch that S&D did? He did say that the other ones coming didn't have quite the history that Hard Skool had....I mean Slash knows the lore by now....he'll know The General is basically the most infamous unreleased track....so Perhaps it hadn't been done when he spoke to Trunk....I know people be like, whatever, but why not? We can't presume everything we get told is the only things that actual are happening BTS...I know the world is like pics or didn't happen these days....but for exactly that reason, we would have folk banging on about how Axl's never in a studio, if it wasn't for a simple couple of photos this year....Work a bunch of songs, work some more later....there's more than 6 tracks (including what we've got so far) with vocals, so time (Axl time of course) will tell....but I think a compromise is a fair thought?

Since they did one last year, is an extended EP (possibly with live tracks....Slither teased already) could be on its way at some point....that's not unreasonable is it?

I also thought about it. What makes me believe this is that they would have mixed all songs they had recorded at once. But it could also be that they weren't happy with the result and had to remix them with somebody else than Karam, which happened with Perhaps. The question is, if Perhaps was among the songs they recorded and mixed during Covid... or was it before? 🤔 

Edited August 28, 2023 by Free Bird

[ZoSoRose]

After a bit over a week, I think this is a pretty solid song release. As a song, it’s a little bare with the parts and lyrics, but it works. Axl seems to like the verse-chorus- bridge/solo- verse- chorus arrangement which is a bit unconventional. They do it on You’re Crazy, Yesterday’s, and Sorry, too. It’s hard to judge because we’ve only gotten 18 original songs in like 30 years, so it’s easy to want everything to be incredible. Without that lens, this is a fun tune. Some cool melodies, a great Axl- chorus, catchy piano, and some Slash and Duff to add the classic- GNR sound. It doesnt overstay its welcome, and even though the lyrics repeat, there are some flourishes with the guitars, piano, and drums that keep the last bit interesting.  

Song sounds great the more I listen to it. I for sure like the final Absurd and HS versions more than the demos, but I like different things about Perhaps’ two versions.

Chorus sounds heavier on the original, and I like a lot of Robins playing. Mix is better on the final and it’s bluesier. Sounds more like a GnR song whereas the original sounded like an early 2000s song (which it was) with Robin’s guitar tone and style.

Final is actually less in-your-face with the guitars (aside from the solo), but there are still a lot of cool things going on quietly in the mix to bring it out. Slash s was relatively reserved on this one whereas he was all over Hard Skool and Absurd with lead guitar. Suits the song. Glad to have both and I do really dig how it turned out.

 

Edited August 28, 2023 by ZoSoRose

[rudolf1978]

if Axl has 10 or 20 songs in the mighty vault from 00s..... came on, they are going to do it one by one? what a bunch of lazy guys.

btw i listened to Hardskool again and slash work on it is really bad. if is it slash. Very simple everything

[Free Bird]

12 hours ago, El Guapo said:

It's totaly possible that Axl himself came up with the basic three chord progression of Hardskool's main riff. 

It's not like something as, say, By the Sword, where you can just hear it was written by a guitarist.

By The Sword is actually one of the songs I'd like to see them doing live. Axl might sound weird on it nowadays but that doesn't prevent him from singing other tunes he struggles with, too.

[Martin Riggs]

#15 now on this Active Rock chart. Moving in the right direction. 
 

https://hitsdd.section101.com/mediabase_chart_details&fmt=R2

[Blackstar]

On 8/26/2023 at 9:55 PM, ThERoveR said:

Perhaps on Spotify: 1,607,450 streams as of August 25. 

https://kworb.net/spotify/artist/3qm84nBOXUEQ2vnTfUTTFC_songs.html

I see that Hard Skool has more streams than a few UYI songs as well as most of CD and TSI songs.

[Amir]

1 hour ago, Blackstar said:

I see that Hard Skool has more streams than a few UYI songs as well as most of CD and TSI songs.

There was a real missed opportunity not having TIL as a single, if not THE single for CD. Was always the CD song that got the biggest crowd reaction in 2010, and while a lot of people here find it cheesy, it had the potential to be a crossover hit like November Rain. The ballads have always been hugely popular, and the fact that it still cracks the GNR top 20 all these years on despite zero promotion says something.

[betterman]

Perhaps number 20 on active rock charts, lets hope it goes further up..

http://www.mediabase.com/mmrweb/allaboutcountry/Charts.asp?format=R2R

 

[Blackstar]

3 minutes ago, Amir said:

There was a real missed opportunity not having TIL as a single, if not THE single for CD. Was always the CD song that got the biggest crowd reaction in 2010, and while a lot of people here find it cheesy, it had the potential to be a crossover hit like November Rain. The ballads have always been hugely popular, and the fact that it still cracks the GNR top 20 all these years on despite zero promotion says something.

Yeah, I'm always surprised seeing how popular TIL is (I am among those who find it too sappy and cheesy, lol, although it does have a beautiful melody).

I guess it's in a lot of people's "rock ballads" or "power ballads" playlists.

[Slugworth]

18 minutes ago, Amir said:

There was a real missed opportunity not having TIL as a single, if not THE single for CD.

An even bigger missed opportunity was not saving it for the reunion.

 

 

[metalavenger99]

Well, it seems that even Hard Skool (9) and also SOYL (5) did way better than Perhaps on the main billboard rock radio chart.

https://www.billboard.com/charts/hot-mainstream-rock-tracks/ it says 33 here and on the GNR artist page it says currently 26 (on google chrome press the x button next to the url before it loads to bypass the paywall)

...

And how about this chart?  

I know billboard updates the lists at Tuesdays so...  it should appear tomorrow? When is it gonna be eligible? No fucking way Perhaps has done worse than Absurd and November Rain Remix... right? Does anyone know how this shit works?

And before someone comes at me to tell me how GNR will never be as trendy or big as Taylor Swift or Dua Lipa anymore, yeah, fuck off lol, i know and don't care about that, i'm asking about the rock charts

[Free Bird]

7 minutes ago, metalavenger99 said:

Well, it seems that even Hard Skool (9) and also SOYL (5) did way better than Perhaps on the main billboard rock radio chart.

https://www.billboard.com/charts/hot-mainstream-rock-tracks/ it says 33 here and on the GNR artist page it says currently 26 (on google chrome press the x button next to the url before it loads to bypass the paywall)

...

And how about this chart?  

I know billboard updates the lists at Tuesdays so...  it should appear tomorrow? When is it gonna be eligible? No fucking way Perhaps has done worse than Absurd and November Rain Remix... right? Does anyone know how this shit works?

And before someone comes at me to tell me how GNR will never be as trendy or big as Taylor Swift or Dua Lipa anymore, yeah, fuck off lol, i know and don't care about that, i'm asking about the rock charts

Dua who?

[evilfacelessturtle]

18 hours ago, Blackstar said:

Being written in 1996 doesn't mean that Slash was necessarily involved in writing it. Matt referred to the Jackie Chan song as a song "Axl had", which suggests that it was something Axl was working on by himself and not with the band. And according to the writing credits, it was written mostly by Axl.

1995-96 was a strange period. Apart from the few (basically only two) band sessions with Slash during that whole time, there were separate sessions: Duff and Izzy, Duff on his own, Duff and Matt, Axl on his own, Axl with Paul Tobias, Dizzy and Dizzy's friends (the so called "shadow band").

We have enough information and clues now to say almost with certainty that Hard Skool dates from 1995/96.

 

Now that is plausible. My thinking was that they started working on something for the Jackie Chan movie in 1996 but anything Slash wrote was scrapped out of spite and they continued writing for the movie with the new lineup. The "Jackie Chan" name only continued because it was the same project, not the same song. That was my theory, but yours makes sense to me as well.

17 hours ago, El Guapo said:

It's totaly possible that Axl himself came up with the basic three chord progression of Hardskool's main riff. 

It's not like something as, say, By the Sword, where you can just hear it was written by a guitarist.

Hit the nail on the head. It's frustrating as a guitarist and Slash fanboy to see people insisting he wrote Hardskool in 1996. Songs built around chord progressions are how Axl and the CD lineup wrote songs, not Slash.

 

2 hours ago, Amir said:

There was a real missed opportunity not having TIL as a single, if not THE single for CD. Was always the CD song that got the biggest crowd reaction in 2010, and while a lot of people here find it cheesy, it had the potential to be a crossover hit like November Rain. The ballads have always been hugely popular, and the fact that it still cracks the GNR top 20 all these years on despite zero promotion says something.

Yeah, it's a strong piece, IMO owing to its creation dating back to the golden era. But it did really need at least one more section to add some contrast to it. It's a bit too much of the same thing all the way through. Still a great song though.

Edited August 28, 2023 by evilfacelessturtle