11/05/23 - Toluca, MX - Hell and Heaven Fest

[WhazUp]

1 hour ago, HollyWoodRose84 said:

Steven Tyler is currently in rehab. And I’m no way trolling or making a false assumption/statement. The PR release about his voice was done to save face and possibly the remainder of their tour. 

Has this been confirmed or is it just a guess?

I have yet to hear about rehab, and I specifically remember a friend caught Aerosmith right before the tour dates went in limbo and the vocal chord news, and he said Steven's vocals were absolutely fried - and that was even before all the news.  As of right now, unless anyone has actual legit sources, I don't think it is unreasonable to think that he was having vocal issues because his vocal chords were having issues

[kiwiguns]

1 hour ago, Free Bird said:

My personal prediction is that they indeed will work on the record, after Slash did what Slash has to do, like, maybe at the end of 2024. They probably gonna visit the studio but, unfortunately, there won't be a release (of this bew record) for reasons we will never know.

Edit: The same reasons for the CD era songs delay probably...

It's clear the reason why CD era songs are being released is because the record label owns that material. That's why we are getting old or recorded material from that era. 

As I have indicated previously, the band has the leverage, to control its own future and they are placing themselves in a position to do so either via a renegotiation with UMG under better terms or going independent via their own label.

Axl won't return to the days of having a record label control all aspects of the material. Its clear the CD era experience broke him. 

The fact that the big 3 have remained together and the reunion tour has gone so well, Axl, Slash, Duff and Guns N Roses are In a very strong position to decided their own future path... 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 7, 2023 by kiwiguns

[tox]

4 hours ago, Blackstar said:

Very good quality recording of The General (not from the live stream):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqRVLPwJcw8

From the video above (and the live stream) It looks like he wanted to say more about The General but got pissed off about something (probably technical issues) before the song started.

All anyone can do is speculate what that whole interaction before the song was about. When I heard Axl say this  I felt that he was going to mention something about why he wrote it and his past child abuse but someone offstage was telling him not to get into it.

[colonizedmind]

So did we know prior this was gonna stream? Also what's with the sound on the stream? It all seems like high end, record the feed screen but this actually did stream? Did it encode at a super low bit rate?

[DoMw94]

45 minutes ago, tox said:

I felt that he was going to mention something about why he wrote it and his past child abuse but someone offstage was telling him not to get into it.

I doubt he would ever openly discuss child abuse on stage these day, especially in a festival setting. The child abuse aspect wouldn't explain why it was a new song either, like he was going to say. That's just its (potential) subject matter.

He also says "I can't hear a word you're saying" before introducing it, so it was probably related to on-stage technical issues, which seem to happen a lot these days.

43 minutes ago, colonizedmind said:

So did we know prior this was gonna stream? Also what's with the sound on the stream? It all seems like high end, record the feed screen but this actually did stream? Did it encode at a super low bit rate?

It wasn't a proper proshot livestream, it was a local radio station pointing a few cameras at the stage and screens. It wasn't soundboard audio either

Edited November 7, 2023 by DoMw94

[colonizedmind]

49 minutes ago, WhazUp said:

Has this been confirmed or is it just a guess?

I have yet to hear about rehab, and I specifically remember a friend caught Aerosmith right before the tour dates went in limbo and the vocal chord news, and he said Steven's vocals were absolutely fried - and that was even before all the news.  As of right now, unless anyone has actual legit sources, I don't think it is unreasonable to think that he was having vocal issues because his vocal chords were having issues

Agreed, Steven has a lifelong history of substance abuse, he knows, we know...that'll always be an issue but mostly when he gets on stage, he's an incredible frontman and in any state, gives it his all and has had an amazing voice well into his 70s....the vocal bleed was quite specific and initially hoped it wasn't as bad as they found out, after further tests...Steven has just done rehab already earlier this year and I don't think 3 shows into the "farewell", would he go down so soon and he doesn't took out of it on the YT clips...So I'm sure he did injury his throat...the way he still screams and he's had many throat injuries and surgeries before...there's a history. However, it wouldn't be a total surprise if he's fallen off the wagon, with all the pressure about court cases mounting up about sex abuse cases, etc.

Edited November 7, 2023 by colonizedmind

[colonizedmind]

3 minutes ago, DoMw94 said:

I doubt he would ever openly discuss child abuse on stage these day, especially in a festival setting. The child abuse aspect wouldn't explain why it was a new song either, like he was going to say. That's just its (potential) subject matter.

He also says "I can't hear a word you're saying" before introducing it, so it was probably related to on-stage technical issues, hich seem to happen a lot these days.

It wasn't a proper proshot livestream, it was a local radio station pointing a few cameras at the stage and screens. It wasn't soundboard audio either

So unofficial then....that makes total sense now with the questionable (but still cool to have - video wise) SQ

[Blackstar]

19 minutes ago, kiwiguns said:

It's clear the reason why CD era songs are being released is because the record label owns that material. That's why we are getting old or recorded material from that era. 

As I have indicated previously, the band has the leverage, to control its own future and they are placing themselves in a position to do so either via a renegotiation with UMG under better terms or going independent via their own label.

Axl won't return to the days of having a record label control all aspects of the material. Its clear the CD era experience broke him. 

The fact that the big 3 have remained together and the reunion tour has gone so well, Axl, Slash, Duff and Guns N Roses are In a very strong position to decided their own future path

According to the credits and copyright registrations, GNR owns the versions of CD era songs that have been released by this lineup, not the label.

[Blackstar]

20 minutes ago, tox said:

All anyone can do is speculate what that whole interaction before the song was about. When I heard Axl say this  I felt that he was going to mention something about why he wrote it and his past child abuse but someone offstage was telling him not to get into it.

This probably too much reading into it. I don't think Axl would talk about the subject matter so openly.

[colonizedmind]

20 minutes ago, Blackstar said:

This probably too much reading into it. I don't think Axl would talk about the subject matter so openly.

He used to but now....not even in this talky Axl 2023....it's all positive stage banter....In fact, those that keep archive...when was the last stage rant?? Has he had one since the reunion? I don't think so, if he did, we'd sure know about it as the press wouldn't waste time, laying into him "same old Axl" and rehashing it forever...

[adamsapple]

45 minutes ago, tox said:

 someone offstage was telling him not to get into it.

And maybe that was for the better.

[DoMw94]

18 minutes ago, colonizedmind said:

Has he had one since the reunion? I don't think so

There's been a couple. Ones that immediately come to mind are in Melbourne last year when he stopped mid-song to yell at a lighting guy, and if you listen to the Paris 2023 IEM bootleg you can hear him kicking off at staff at the end of Anything Goes.

Nothing like the old days though.

Edited November 7, 2023 by DoMw94

[Underhardy]

There’s not one chance someone side-stage was telling Axl not to go into The General’s meaning. To me, it seemed Axl was kind of taking the piss out of it. He said it’s a ‘new’ song, then probably thought, well, a 20-year-old new song, and he just said Nevermind instead of getting into that. 

[Spiritual_Chaos]

Just sounds like he is taking the piss out of over-introducing and yapping before songs.

Edited November 7, 2023 by Spiritual_Chaos

[colonizedmind]

1 hour ago, adamsapple said:

And maybe that was for the better.

Fernando said Sir....Sir....save it for that chapter to sell the book!! 

[DoMw94]

44 minutes ago, Spiritual_Chaos said:

Just sounds like he is taking the piss out of over-introducing and yapping before songs.

This this this

 

 

[Blackstar]

1 hour ago, Underhardy said:

There’s not one chance someone side-stage was telling Axl not to go into The General’s meaning. To me, it seemed Axl was kind of taking the piss out of it. He said it’s a ‘new’ song, then probably thought, well, a 20-year-old new song, and he just said Nevermind instead of getting into that. 

51 minutes ago, Spiritual_Chaos said:

Just sounds like he is taking the piss out of over-introducing and yapping before songs.

It didn't seem like taking the piss to me, because he usually grins when he does that (and he wasn't this time).

 

[colonizedmind]

On 11/6/2023 at 2:46 PM, Mickey said:

Of all the complaining over the years since Duff & Slash came back into the band, has been weird, since we could just have ended up with a couple of shows in 2016 and nothing else. But luck would have it, that they still have a friendship to build on, and let bygones be bygones. I'm just happy I got to see them 2 times (2017-2018) and Axl in AC/DC in Denmark 2016. I just hope that GnR will be back with an album they can play live without Axl having to struggle with his voice. So he should steer clear of those songs that he can't sing well anymore.

This show would be great to see some real proshot put on the bands YouTube channel, so we have something to look at while we're waiting for the next round of liveshows!

...And here is a game changer....it is a big thing to consider that of all the big bands, Guns have the smallest catalogue and are playing over 90% of material which was written and recorded over 30 years ago....which, considering it is also some of the more challenging vocals in rock, is tiring for an older man, no matter how in shape and much prep you may do...

Other bands, for the most part will have 7, 8 albums of material from more recent eras sprinkled throughout the set, to compliment those original, must hear hits....but because of the those more recent vocal material tunes, it helps to not strain the voice and give the set more moments of easier to hit the mark vocals....Axl really does not have that luxury....BUT new album with fresh vocals and 6 or 7 of those being played on the next big tour, that would make a big difference, as well as the already suggested, reimagining of some of the hits, where appropriate, of vocal lines and attacks....a la (sick) Estranged....

Edited November 7, 2023 by colonizedmind

[colonizedmind]

55 minutes ago, Blackstar said:

It didn't seem like taking the piss to me, because he usually grins when he does that (and he wasn't this time).

 

He seemed confused more than anything...maybe no-one was hearing what he was saying through the stage mic...he went to that just before...

[Powerage5]

9 hours ago, DSTK said:

Shame it was an absolute dog shit quality stream isn't it...the quality is appalling for a 'pro' shot 

It isn’t really a proshot though. If I remember right, it’s a local radio station or something that I’m assuming gets media access. The same source streamed KISS last year, and that was just a single, wide angle shot for the entire show. This one actually looks quite a bit better than KISS did last year. Like @DoMw94 said, it’s not soundboard audio but at least it’s relatively free of obtrusive crowd noise since the camera is a bit elevated (And obtrusive crowd noise is quite prevalent on audience recordings in Latin America). Would like to see the full show in that quality still. 

[Joraz]

4 hours ago, DoMw94 said:

There's been a couple. Ones that immediately come to mind are in Melbourne last year when he stopped mid-song to yell at a lighting guy, and if you listen to the Paris 2023 IEM bootleg you can hear him kicking off at staff at the end of Anything Goes.

Nothing like the old days though.

Man, as a 23 year old at his first big band concert after missing them coming around in '17 hearing him rant about the lighting was a moment ill never forget, was actually the most rock n roll thing ever i swear

[BillConnor_1982]

3 hours ago, Underhardy said:

There’s not one chance someone side-stage was telling Axl not to go into The General’s meaning. To me, it seemed Axl was kind of taking the piss out of it. He said it’s a ‘new’ song, then probably thought, well, a 20-year-old new song, and he just said Nevermind instead of getting into that. 

Exactly. What was he going to do, stand there for 5 minutes and give a run down on the 20 year old history of the song?  He seems to be ‘less talk, more rock’ than in the old days when he would rattle on for 5 minutes about nonsense 

[adamsapple]

19 minutes ago, colonizedmind said:

new album with fresh vocals and 6 or 7 of those being played on the next big tour, that would make a big difference, as well as the already suggested, reimagining of some of the hits, where appropriate, of vocal lines and attacks....a la (sick) Estranged....

I love that moment in Estranged, I believe that was a brief glimpse of his brain not being on autopilot. Let me explain. 

The elephant in the room no "vocal coach" seemingly ever told him is muscle memory. He's been singing that stuff for almost 40 years, hence him being tired of rehearsing it but still being able to pull it off in his sleep - while the brain is sending the ever same signals to the muscles, using the ever same communication paths. However, the body can no longer respond the same way to that particular conditioning because of aging. To get rid of that neurological tunnel vision, a change of angle is needed. He can workout and do breathing exercises all he wants, it won't do shit for him because he is keeping the tires in shape but not the engine.

If I was his coach I'd say climb up a tree and sing in french even if you don't speak the language. Sing while you are swimming with your clothes on. Sing in the back of your car parked in front of a green light during rush hour. You get the idea.

Anyway, I doubt he'd go for less than 100% technical perfection in the studio. And we all know he's not fucking around when it comes to studio recordings. So even if they do come up with new material, he will end up facing the same struggle live unless he either starts embracing full on baritone or working with an actual vocal coach.

[Blackstar]

1 hour ago, adamsapple said:

I love that moment in Estranged, I believe that was a brief glimpse of his brain not being on autopilot. Let me explain. 

The elephant in the room no "vocal coach" seemingly ever told him is muscle memory. He's been singing that stuff for almost 40 years, hence him being tired of rehearsing it but still being able to pull it off in his sleep - while the brain is sending the ever same signals to the muscles, using the ever same communication paths. However, the body can no longer respond the same way to that particular conditioning because of aging. To get rid of that neurological tunnel vision, a change of angle is needed. He can workout and do breathing exercises all he wants, it won't do shit for him because he is keeping the tires in shape but not the engine.

If I was his coach I'd say climb up a tree and sing in french even if you don't speak the language. Sing while you are swimming with your clothes on. Sing in the back of your car parked in front of a green light during rush hour. You get the idea.

Anyway, I doubt he'd go for less than 100% technical perfection in the studio. And we all know he's not fucking around when it comes to studio recordings. So even if they do come up with new material, he will end up facing the same struggle live unless he either starts embracing full on baritone or working with an actual vocal coach.

I have thought that it could be muscle memory, too, in addition to insisting on singing the songs on the same range that they were sung on the record.

He has proven, though, that he can instantly and effortlessly adjust his delivery to his baritone voice. and change the melody when needed, etc.

[W. Axl Kev]

I love GN’R (every iteration) but I’m convincing myself to like this song. The subject matter sounds very personal and jarring so I won’t suggest he’s wrong to release it now (there’s no right time) but it would’ve slotted perfectly into who he was between 2002-2012. I’d have loved to have heard that Axl sing it.