THE GENERAL - MONSTERS - Official Discussion Thread. NO LINKS OR ASKING FOR LINKS

[jekylhyde]

3 minutes ago, ThePreacher said:

Is it true that these are only demos? How do you know?

Obviously I don't know for sure, but to me these sound like demos. The compositions themselves are good, but the mix on both songs is muddy and all over the place. There's no way these are final versions. 

[Voodoochild]

11 hours ago, GNFNRUK said:

I mean Bucket plays something that sounds VERY similar during the outro on the demo but I suppose it could just be Slash replicating it on the final mix.

I think what Richard and Slash play live is the same as the studio version. Richard emulated Bucket's fast chromatic tapping by just using his pick to hit the strings, while Slash plays similar, but just with hammer-on and pull-offs.

11 hours ago, evader said:

Holy shit, it just occurred to me that the cellphone guitar solo could have been Ashba. I may need to phone a friend on this one. @Voodoochild?

Hahaha, I don't think I could help much in this case. The quality of that cellphone recording is too bad for me to pick the tone. When I was learning how to play that riff, it crossed my mind that it sounded like Robin's approach - simple and carefully chosen notes, kinda like IRS or Hard School's demo intro. But yeah, it could be Ashba too, but I think it's unlikely. I hope it's not him, at least.  

[Coma16]

17 minutes ago, AtlasShrugged said:

They're very clearly rips from a bad vinyl pressing

No, it's not very clear that they're vinyl rips. Especially how clean Monsters sounds compared to how TG sounds (which I don't believe is Slash at the ending)

[rumandraisin]

4 hours ago, D.. said:

I did cross my mind, didn't want to mention it and upset people But I highly doubt it's DJ either, it just feels Slash all the way.

I think the only studio Gn'R song I heard from DJ was his Better remix. I sadly lost it, but I remember it being very Halloween-esque. Kind of like if Better had been reworked for a Tim Burton movie. It was

cool, but nothing like those leaks. I expect DJ to have reworked other songs with this kind of style.

 

DJ never worked in the studio for Guns. They didn't do any recording officially after 2007 as confirmed by Tommy and Bumble and Ashba himself. They did knock ideas around depending on who you believe and Ashba worked on the Better remix and recorded ten or so songs which were all knocked back by Axl. 

Or if you believe 4tus it was the opposite and they were working constantly, looking to the next record, looking seriously at what they had, they all wanted it etc...

[Sweersa]

How funny would it be if they released Soul Monster and it’s based on the Me & My Elvis instrumental with killer Axl vocals and a guitar solo. Possibly up to three tracks with similar names, Monsters, Soul Monster, and Monstrocity. My guess is as least two are the same. 

[Coma16]

2 minutes ago, Sweersa said:

How funny would it be if they released Soul Monster and it’s based on the Me & My Elvis instrumental with killer Axl vocals and a guitar solo. Possibly up to three tracks with similar names, Monsters, Soul Monster, and Monstrocity. My guess is as least two are the same. 

I would love Me and My Elvis, it's my favorite from all the instrumentals.

[Sweersa]

1 minute ago, Coma16 said:

I would love Me and My Elvis, it's my favorite from all the instrumentals.

Mine too, or tied with Zodiac 13.

[Blackstar]

6 minutes ago, Sweersa said:

How funny would it be if they released Soul Monster and it’s based on the Me & My Elvis instrumental with killer Axl vocals and a guitar solo. Possibly up to three tracks with similar names, Monsters, Soul Monster, and Monstrocity. My guess is as least two are the same. 

Well, we now know that Monsters and Soul Monsters are the same.

[Voodoochild]

So yeah, me and @Blackstar were talking about The General and Monsters orchestral pieces played before the concerts. I'm not 100% sure, as it may have occurred one time or another, but I tried to find Monsters orchestra piece in several 2006 bootlegs, and could never find it. It was always just The General. Here my early findings:

- The General piece was played before concerts in 2009/10, but it was mostly used in 2006/07. I played guitar along with that in two recordings (not sure from which shows those were), and it seemed that the orchestra is a bit shorter than the leak, and it looped back to the beginning. It has a similar secondary melody (I assume those were horns?) in the ending that resembles the first few notes that Slash plays in the beginning of his outro solo. 

- Monters orchestral piece wasn't played together with The General, as far as I could find. I wasn't able to find any instance of it being played before 2010. This is one example:

 

- Our conclusion is: The General orchestra was the whole song, but shorter. It was probably never played together with the Monsters part, but we all (yeah, me included) assumed those pieces were mixed together and was the same thing because of how similar they sound. 

I'll post this also on the Beltrami thread, just in case.

[alfa75]

50 minutes ago, AtlasShrugged said:

Yep. Think it's wishful thinking from people who don't like the songs. Only thing we are waiting on is how the two are or aren't linked together when officially released and a higher quality version (which I think will also improve the songs).

They're very clearly rips from a bad vinyl pressing

Or rather people who like the song but have been critical of Slash and cannot reconcile with the fact that he did in fact, nail it.

[Twinaleblood]

6 minutes ago, Voodoochild said:

So yeah, me and @Blackstar were talking about The General and Monsters orchestral pieces played before the concerts. I'm not 100% sure, as it may have occurred one time or another, but I tried to find Monsters orchestra piece in several 2006 bootlegs, and could never find it. It was always just The General. Here my early findings:

- The General piece was played before concerts in 2009/10, but it was mostly used in 2006/07. I played guitar along with that in two recordings (not sure from which shows those were), and it seemed that the orchestra is a bit shorter than the leak, and it looped back to the beginning. It has a similar secondary melody (I assume those were horns?) in the ending that resembles the first few notes that Slash plays in the beginning of his outro solo. 

- Monters orchestral piece wasn't played together with The General, as far as I could find. I wasn't able to find any instance of it being played before 2010. This is one example:

 

- Our conclusion is: The General orchestra was the whole song, but shorter. It was probably never played together with the Monsters part, but we all (yeah, me included) assumed those pieces were mixed together and was the same thing because of how similar they sound. 

I'll post this also on the Beltrami thread, just in case.

Great job, this makes things even clearer! When GNR's twitter referred to The General as the most played intro, they were then talking about the one mostly used in 2006/07. We wrongly assumed, because of the similar Beltrami approach, the one from 2010 was parts of the same song and it was Soul Monster all along instead. Thank you for the effort!

[Sweersa]

1 minute ago, Blackstar said:

Well, we now know that Monsters and Soul Monsters are the same.

Was it confirmed? I know it’s a strong possibility, but curious if we got a definitive answer. 

[DSTK]

1 minute ago, Sweersa said:

Was it confirmed? I know it’s a strong possibility, but curious if we got a definitive answer. 

Are you for real ? Confirmed by who ? Do you want someone from Guns to come out & Confirm rumours about a leak ?

You'll get an answer when it's released 

[Blackstar]

Just now, Sweersa said:

Was it confirmed? I know it’s a strong possibility, but curious if we got a definitive answer. 

Marco Beltrami has recognized Monsters as one of the songs he worked on and he's confident that it was a separate work than the one he did on The General. And Monsters also matches Axl's description of Soul Monster perfectly, plus there's "monsters" and "soul" in the lyrics. So it's case closed, really.

 

[Sweersa]

1 minute ago, DSTK said:

Are you for real ? Confirmed by who ? Do you want someone from Guns to come out & Confirm rumours about a leak ?

You'll get an answer when it's released 

It getting released as “Monsters” is not confirmation it was Soul Monster. Could all be circumstantial, so yes, I’m looking for something DEFINITIVE.

1 minute ago, Blackstar said:

Marco Beltrami has recognized Monsters as one of the songs he worked on and he's confident that it was a separate work than the one he did on The General. And Monsters also matches Axl's description of Soul Monster perfectly, plus there's "monsters" and "soul" in the lyrics. So it's case closed, really.

 

Thank you, sounds like indeed they are the same songs, with 90% confidence. 😊 

[Blackstar]

1 minute ago, Sweersa said:

It getting released as “Monsters” is not confirmation it was Soul Monster. Could all be circumstantial, so yes, I’m looking for something DEFINITIVE.

Thank you, sounds like indeed they are the same songs, with 90% confidence. 😊 

For me it's 100% (and I'm rarely that confident about something).

[DoMw94]

They're not vinyl rips and they're not demos. This is obvious in both cases.

They're compressed files that have been leaked, obviously they're not perfect.

And for crying out loud, yes it is Slash!

Edited November 1, 2023 by DoMw94

[THELINESMAN]

56 minutes ago, ThePreacher said:

Is it true that these are only demos? How do you know?

I think they're demos, can't be certain, but think. Here's why:

Sound/Mix Quality: Too poor/varied. But that could be why they delayed release...

Vocals: I think Axl runs out of lyrics in The General and there are a few scratch vocals in place "oohs" where there could be lyrics. The vocals are a bit weak in places too I think and many seem to date around the early 2000s. Seems strange to me that he would not have rerecorded parts of this with his 2010 epic rasp voice like he did the This I Love remix. BUT, as other people have said, he likes weird vocal takes...

Guitars: Not all of this sounds like Slash to me. Hard Skool and Perhaps are distinctively him. Due to the nature of the song I think it's quite difficult to tell. Some are convinced the wah must be Slash, but that and other tones can be imitated. 

Music in general (pardon the pun): The song seems very thin in places, almost like other layers are missing and due to go in.
 

[Zeppelin]

58 minutes ago, DSTK said:

It's a leaked song or two & a forum of opinions...just enjoy it & hang on 5 weeks til the general is released as a B side...then you'll find out 

Tbh who gives a fuck, it's something exciting we didn't have a week ago 

 

13 minutes ago, DSTK said:

Are you for real ? Confirmed by who ? Do you want someone from Guns to come out & Confirm rumours about a leak ?

You'll get an answer when it's released 

Do you have some sort of anger issue? People are just asking questions out of genuine curiosity. Take a hit of something and tone it down a touch, instead of jumping down throats all the time.

[ZoSoRose]

Either way, I really dig the guitars on these songs- especially Monsters. The General’s parts took a bit to land with me. 
 

He absolutely nailed Monsters. Made it sound more like a lost mid-90s GNR song. I love it 

[Sweersa]

If these are final versions, which I believe is probably the case as the lead guitar sounds like Slash 90% of the time, I really hope someone deliberately lowered the quality before leaking or these were ripped in a way that caused audio quality issues because the production is awful. Makes a 128 bit rate MP3 sound like a FLAC in comparison. A lot of the lyrics are unintelligible too, which is funny because the fan-made version of Monsters had the same issue, understandably so. So maybe whomever leaked it did that as a joke and nod to Evader’s version. 

I hope the final versions are mixed and mastered like 2023 Perhaps, by Bob Ludwig, then we can really immerse ourselves in them. 

[DSTK]

14 minutes ago, Zeppelin said:

 

Do you have some sort of anger issue? People are just asking questions out of genuine curiosity. Take a hit of something and tone it down a touch, instead of jumping down throats all the time.

None at all dude...aren't you seeing one dumb question, one after the other on here too though ? Nearing stupid levels of comments that usually pop up on reddit 

What I replied there was common sense, not a shot at someone, & as you had nothing to do with any of it...I struggle to see how it's any of your business dude? 

You telling me to tone it down won't work kid, you seem to be never wrong & everyone else always is ...just enjoy the music or shut the fuck up for god sake 

Edited November 1, 2023 by DSTK

[axljungle]

1 hour ago, Barlog said:

It's Slash 100% although I don't think that these leaked versions are the final product.

The mixture is quite different than Perhaps

[kitstuai]

22 minutes ago, THELINESMAN said:

I think they're demos, can't be certain, but think. Here's why:

Sound/Mix Quality: Too poor/varied. But that could be why they delayed release...

Vocals: I think Axl runs out of lyrics in The General and there are a few scratch vocals in place "oohs" where there could be lyrics. The vocals are a bit weak in places too I think and many seem to date around the early 2000s. Seems strange to me that he would not have rerecorded parts of this with his 2010 epic rasp voice like he did the This I Love remix. BUT, as other people have said, he likes weird vocal takes...

Guitars: Not all of this sounds like Slash to me. Hard Skool and Perhaps are distinctively him. Due to the nature of the song I think it's quite difficult to tell. Some are convinced the wah must be Slash, but that and other tones can be imitated. 

Music in general (pardon the pun): The song seems very thin in places, almost like other layers are missing and due to go in.
 

Overall agree! But the vinyl delay is not due to the actual mix

[axljungle]

46 minutes ago, Voodoochild said:

So yeah, me and @Blackstar were talking about The General and Monsters orchestral pieces played before the concerts. I'm not 100% sure, as it may have occurred one time or another, but I tried to find Monsters orchestra piece in several 2006 bootlegs, and could never find it. It was always just The General. Here my early findings:

- The General piece was played before concerts in 2009/10, but it was mostly used in 2006/07. I played guitar along with that in two recordings (not sure from which shows those were), and it seemed that the orchestra is a bit shorter than the leak, and it looped back to the beginning. It has a similar secondary melody (I assume those were horns?) in the ending that resembles the first few notes that Slash plays in the beginning of his outro solo. 

- Monters orchestral piece wasn't played together with The General, as far as I could find. I wasn't able to find any instance of it being played before 2010. This is one example:

 

- Our conclusion is: The General orchestra was the whole song, but shorter. It was probably never played together with the Monsters part, but we all (yeah, me included) assumed those pieces were mixed together and was the same thing because of how similar they sound. 

I'll post this also on the Beltrami thread, just in case.

I could hear The General and Monsters orchestra