Why are everyone's opinions so black or white here?

[Jakey Styley]

Seriously, do half of you even think for yourselves?

-Chinese Democracy is either a piece of shit or a masterpiece

- Axl is 100% responsible for the old lineup splitting, or it's Slash's fault

-Chinese Democracy was either a commercial failure or a grand success

- etc

Why is there no kind of middle ground with so many GNR forum-goers? It's a crazy way of thinking.

Chinese Democracy is at least an alright album.

Old GNR broke up mostly because of creative differences.

Chinese Democracy sold quite well but didn't reach expectations.

Edited January 9, 2014 by Jakey Styley

[DR DOOM]

Not everyone.

It does seem that Axl does get some looney tunes followers though, I can understand him hiding.

[WhazUp]

Part of the problem is the insane people on the forum have the loudest voices

But yeah there are a lot of extreme points that are of little relevence logcally. First that comes to mind are those who call GNR both old and new as "Axl's band" which is absolute bullshit when referring to the old band. Same thing with those who think Axl broke up the band all by himself and nobody else did anything to contribute to that. The middle ground is where it's at.

Some people need to look past their "side" and just be logical

Edited January 9, 2014 by WhazUp

[Damn_Smooth]

Shut up, pick a side and quit whining about it.

[Subtle Signs]

There aren't that many wackos on here from what I can tell. It does seem though that there are a few (mostly younger) kids who bash Slash in hopes of scoring party passes to current Gn'R shows.

I don't work for the record company so I don't care what Chi Dem sold. It has 3 of my all time favorite Gn'R songs on it (better, TWAT, citr) & that is what I care about.

I support and enjoy the work of both Axl and Slash (what a concept!)as well as the projects of many former Gunners from Duff to Buckethead.

None of us know what went down as far as the breakup goes. Marc Canter would have the most knowledge since he is/was friends with the guys.

Edited January 9, 2014 by xGNRxSTARx

[Bobbo]

I don't think it was just Axl that broke up gnr. It wasn't ALL his fault. But he certainly was the most responsible.

CD was a failure. But I think it had 3 solid songs and 1 that was ok. It certainly wasn't the worst album ever created, but it was light years from being the best.

[liers]

I tend to be in the middle, though I lean toward's axl's side.

That said, I have no problem saying good things about Slash and bashing axl when they each deserve it, unlike certain members who think one is awful and the other can do no wrong.

Edited January 9, 2014 by liers

[Snowmass]

Because when Guns was a band they were the most amazing band ever....pure magic. Axl was/is a polarizing figure and Slash/Duff et al were/are legends. Axl feeds the "black & white" because he won't let Slash/Guns go. All he had to do was go solo and shut up/take the high road with regards to Slash & Guns. Unfortunately due to his personal issues and the people he has surrounded himself with he's gone a different route....so now "what we've got here is....failure to communicate...."......

[pestilence]

if slash would've just listened to keith richards advice we wouldn't be in this situation

[Randy Jesus]

My opinion isn't black or white. It is 50 shades of grey.

[wasted]

I think the most successful forums are built on communities that form around a controversial, unsolveable issue. To be part of the community posters have to have a clear point of view. To be seen to win even if subconsciously you got to pick a side. Its more of a game. Like the debate team.

Then humans are one of the only animals that does "third person punishment" if a monkey sees another monkey beating a smaller monkey it just carries on ignores it. Even 3 year old humans see something wrong they interfere. In this case Axl is seen as doing something, its human instinct to call him out etc. This instinct is unstoppable until it is clear he has been brought to justice.

This feeds back into the community thing.

Sitting on the fence is almost antisocial and not getting involved against human instinct.

[metallex78]

I happen to like both Axl and Slash, and I like Chinese Democracy and Slash's solo efforts.

I just think that the Axl purists who choose to ignore and make excuses for how GN'R continue to fuck up every single thing they seem to do, is quite funny...

They're the same ones who criticize Slash for touring and releasing new music regularly, like if GN'R did that it would somehow be a bad thing

I would LOVE for GN'R to come out, and kick ass and move forward with this band, but it's hard to ignore that they do anything but that, from failed DVD releases, lack of new music, and nostalgia setlists.
I'd love 2014 to prove me wrong when it comes to GN'R...

[Rustycage]

if slash would've just listened to keith richards advice we wouldn't be in this situation

He would have just ended up killing himself intentional or not.

[Patience 4 Axl]

Unfortunately it's just the nature of the beast here. It's very difficult to remain neutral, because no matter what you say, inevitably you'll either be labeled an Axl worshipper if you agree with him, or a cupcake if you don't.

If someone prefers the old Guns, you're called a mullet-head and told to stop living in the past.

If someone doesn't like CD, it's because you're a bitter ex-fan who cannot get over the fact Slash isn't in the band anymore.

If someone hopes for a reunion , you get the goofy "not in this lifetime" quote.

If someone makes fun of Axl's weight, the picture of Slash with his shirt off at the beach gets posted.

And on and on it goes...

It's always been that way here. People have their opinions, and with all the discussions, heated debates and name calling over the years, no one has ever changed my mind. And I know I haven't changed any either. It is what it is.

[magisme]

Chinese Democracy is at least a pretty good album.

Old GNR broke up mostly because of creative differences.

Chinese Democracy sold quite well but didn't reach expectations.

1. No.

2. OK.

3. I guess, depends on your frame of reference.

[wasted]

I happen to like both Axl and Slash, and I like Chinese Democracy and Slash's solo efforts.

I just think that the Axl purists who choose to ignore and make excuses for how GN'R continue to fuck up every single thing they seem to do, is quite funny...

They're the same ones who criticize Slash for touring and releasing new music regularly, like if GN'R did that it would somehow be a bad thing

I would LOVE for GN'R to come out, and kick ass and move forward with this band, but it's hard to ignore that they do anything but that, from failed DVD releases, lack of new music, and nostalgia setlists.

I'd love 2014 to prove me wrong when it comes to GN'R...

I think with that kind of opinion. The "CD is great, Slash rocks" thing you will get attacked from both sides. You'll get people saying CD was terrible and people saying Slash hasn't done anything great since he left GNR. You have reinforced the community by giving two opinions to attack.

[TeeJay410]

I have the general middle opinion, but it's not as sexy a position and doesn't really support that intriguing a narrative. Those who support Axl, CD's misunderstood greatness justifies everything Axl did and vindicates him trough everything he went through. Slash supporters view CD's arguable failure as justification of slash leaving and proper punishment for Axl ruining the band.

[Iron MikeyJ]

I think the most successful forums are built on communities that form around a controversial, unsolveable issue. To be part of the community posters have to have a clear point of view. To be seen to win even if subconsciously you got to pick a side. Its more of a game. Like the debate team.

Then humans are one of the only animals that does "third person punishment" if a monkey sees another monkey beating a smaller monkey it just carries on ignores it. Even 3 year old humans see something wrong they interfere. In this case Axl is seen as doing something, its human instinct to call him out etc. This instinct is unstoppable until it is clear he has been brought to justice.

This feeds back into the community thing.

Sitting on the fence is almost antisocial and not getting involved against human instinct.

Interesting point of view.

[pestilence]

if slash would've just listened to keith richards advice we wouldn't be in this situation

He would have just ended up killing himself intentional or not.

he was luckyhe didn't end up that way anyway.....junkies always have lies nd excuses....

and don't get me wrong.. there was a point i thought slash was the shit

[Cory Trevor]

because the lineup changes were too fuckin drastic

[Nosaj Thing]

In my opinion, Chinese Democracy is an awful record. Worst I have listened to in years. I do have a middle opinion regarding real Guns break up. I don't blame one person, I don't even blame all of them. I simply think that Guns had to die - one way or another.

[jbhutto]

I think most of the problem stems from the lack of productivity from Axl. Being a GnR fan is frustrating and instead of having new music to listen to like most fans of other musicians/bands do, they have to sit around and wait and that's where you get all of the extreme opinion forming and people taking out their frustration on one another (or Axl / Slash or whoever). Not saying you wouldn't have some of that anyway, but if there was talk of new music or a new album or something that was at least substansially tangible then all of the Axl vs. Slash / CD is crap/amazing / DJ is gay talk would probably slip to the background (for real fans anyway, media/casual fans are always going to harp on the breakup) or at least do a slight sidestep and allow for room for talk about the new album or w/e.

[wasted]

Axl is the axis of polemicists.

Edited January 9, 2014 by wasted

[Padme]

Seriously, do half of you even think for yourselves?

-Chinese Democracy is either a piece of shit or a masterpiece

- Axl is 100% responsible for the old lineup splitting, or it's Slash's fault

-Chinese Democracy was either a commercial failure or a grand success

- etc

Why is there no kind of middle ground with so many GNR forum-goers? It's a crazy way of thinking.

Chinese Democracy is at least an alright album.

Old GNR broke up mostly because of creative differences.

Chinese Democracy sold quite well but didn't reach expectations.

The biggest problem with CD was that it wasn´t worthy the amount of time and money spent on it. I don´t want just an ok album from GN´R because I know Axl can do much better than that.

They all played a role in the break up. But I can´t reduce it to "creative differences" Izzy didn´t leave because of that. Axl has many issues and nobody knew how to deal with that. Or they just didn´t want to. So they let Axl and his ass kissers entourage to run the show until things reach a point of no return. For me this current band is not GN´R. They are the Axl Rose Bunch performing AFD songs

CD did well under the current state of the music industry with MTV being about reality shows,with leaks, iTunes and youtube. And with record company executives that only care about pop divas, party music and rappers.

[GivenToFly]

In my opinion, Chinese Democracy is an awful record. Worst I have listened to in years. I do have a middle opinion regarding real Guns break up. I don't blame one person, I don't even blame all of them. I simply think that Guns had to die - one way or another.

See, I don't understand this. For the life of me I cannot understand it. In perspective how is it that awful? Compare it with some of the shit that's played out there, I don't understand how one can dislike it that much. Compared with the Black Eyed Peases and Nicky Minajes of the world and with all the shit whose names I don't know and all the awful entire genres like glam rap and dubstep and anything-core Chinese Democracy is seriously the worst? Really?