Steven Adler in Argentina

[sanity_lost]

13 hours ago, Top-Hatted One said:

If they told him the plan was fly all the way to Argentina so you can play for 3mins in front of his wife and her family then they are even bigger A-Holes than what is being suggested 

Would it have been kinder/ less assholish to not invite him at all?

11 hours ago, BorderlineCrazy said:

I still wonder what is people trying to argue.

Steven came to Argentina and was allowed to play only one song at each show. That is a disgusting thing to do and it's not up to discussion. It doesn't matter if that's the original arrengement or not, it's something disgusting to do to an old friend (and the fans, we were over the moon having Steven here and the band didn't care even when it meant no effort to let him play one more song each night at least). They had Angus Young (who I love but has NOTHING to do with GNR) playing two covers at three shows in a row but they couldn't let Steven play at least the two songs he had been playing with them at both shows. If you're ok with this, if you don't see how fucked up it is, then I'm sorry but you don't have a fucking heart.

 

What are people arguing? I am arguing that we don't know what all is involved and there are people on both sides of this issue. You call it disgusting and fucked up and not open to discussion. I disagree. Maybe it is a terminology issue. Because I do think it sucks, but as I don't know what all went down I can't call it anything worse than that. I can't speak for anyone else, but I don't mean to disparage Steven in my comments, I try to point out why the other side may have valid reasons for their actions. The other side might just be being sadistic assholes or they may wanted him involved, but had their reasons on why they were limiting it to guest appearances. As you have said, these reasons could be wide and varying. Yes you are only talking about Argentina, but the same applies to Argentina as it does to the rest of the tour. How it all ended up going down in Argentina really, really sucks in my opinion. I can't put fault at either side because I don't know how the misunderstanding came about.

I get that for some fans it does not matter what happened.  Izzy and Steven not being full time members means it all sucks to them. Or at the very least has a dark shadow over everything. That is perfectly fine. There is nothing wrong with us wanting a perfect storybook ending. I want it too. We will likely argue over it, of course, because there is a difference between wanting it and expecting others to make changes to derail their lives to give it to us. Plus, I am sure there are other fans out there who have a different perfect ending in mind that they'd prefer to happen. We will always argue over that as well. Especially when we perceive someone else taking a stance that is different than ours or when we perceive (mistakenly or not) that someone is passing their opinion off as indisputable.

We all like to share our thoughts and beliefs. It is unlikely we will ever change anyone else's opinion, but we still like to argue it all the same.

[Swedish]

A part of me wishes that they'd chosen one route with this whole Steven thing from the beginning...

Have him play 100% of the songs from the beginning or have him not involved with the regrouping at all.

Having him play a song or two here and there just puts the whole Steven thing in a weird place and everything get's over analyzed and blown out of proportions. That's just bad PR for the band, the fans don't known what to believe and non hardcores don't know who the fuck's in the band.

[WhazUp]

18 minutes ago, sanity_lost said:

Would it have been kinder/ less assholish to not invite him at all?

What are people arguing? I am arguing that we don't know what all is involved and there are people on both sides of this issue. You call it disgusting and fucked up and not open to discussion. I disagree. Maybe it is a terminology issue. Because I do think it sucks, but as I don't know what all went down I can't call it anything worse than that. I can't speak for anyone else, but I don't mean to disparage Steven in my comments, I try to point out why the other side may have valid reasons for their actions. The other side might just be being sadistic assholes or they may wanted him involved, but had their reasons on why they were limiting it to guest appearances. As you have said, these reasons could be wide and varying. Yes you are only talking about Argentina, but the same applies to Argentina as it does to the rest of the tour. How it all ended up going down in Argentina really, really sucks in my opinion. I can't put fault at either side because I don't know how the misunderstanding came about.

I get that for some fans it does not matter what happened.  Izzy and Steven not being full time members means it all sucks to them. Or at the very least has a dark shadow over everything. That is perfectly fine. There is nothing wrong with us wanting a perfect storybook ending. I want it too. We will likely argue over it, of course, because there is a difference between wanting it and expecting others to make changes to derail their lives to give it to us. Plus, I am sure there are other fans out there who have a different perfect ending in mind that they'd prefer to happen. We will always argue over that as well. Especially when we perceive someone else taking a stance that is different than ours or when we perceive (mistakenly or not) that someone is passing their opinion off as indisputable.

We all like to share our thoughts and beliefs. It is unlikely we will ever change anyone else's opinion, but we still like to argue it all the same.

Great post and this is a great point.  This is exactly why to me it is counterproductive to say things like people in this thread have like saying people of different opinions are heartless, or calling things disgusting when we really do not know what went down.  I am just simply reserving judgement - obviously it sucks that both sides couldn't come to a result that is a happy ending for both sides but I am not going to judge so harshly on information that is so little right now

[themadcaplaughs]

First off, I have no issues with Frank, but it always hits me how great Steven sounds when I watch these videos.

Others here have stated my feelings. I would LOVE to see Steven back, but I am sure there are reasons to rely on him. Look how he ran his mouth after playing a few songs with the band at a handful of shows. Can you imagine the shit he'd say about Axl, Slash, and Duff after a whole tour? As someone else mentioned, Steven knew how many songs he'd play, and he even admitted the band paid for him to fly. Furthermore, after watching that video a few times, I'm not even entirely convinced he started to play. It looked like he was just mugging for the crowd.

[BorderlineCrazy]

2 hours ago, Oldest Goat said:

@BorderlineCrazy Very well said mate.

Love you long time

You're the best, G.O.A.T! 

And I do have likes this time

1 hour ago, Asia said:

Yes, you have a point here. Which is why I said that, if they definitely don't want to have anything to do with Steven (which is something that I can understand), they should not have him involved at all and if they did decide to involve him, giving him three songs every night wouldn't hurt nobody in any way, so, yes, it was a stupid and offensive move.

Especially that indeed Angus has nothing to do with GN'R and people don't come to a GN'R show to hear AC/DC songs, so it's much less justified to give him that many spots a night. Also Slash and Duff visited the AC/DC show twice and they were never allowed on stage, which I also consider not exactly fair when Angus is playing AC/DC songs on so many GN'R shows.

Anyway, like I said I was never defending the way they played it out because it was stupid and offensive to both the fans and Adler. That doesn't change the fact, though, that Steven isn't that perfect hero that some people try to make him be due to what happened. He is who he is and I bet not only Axl, Slash and Duff don't want to start any serious business with him.

Well, now I agree with you. Seeing what's been happening I also believe neither of those three want anything to do with Steven. The only one who seems to really like Steven is Susan...

But I don't think anyone was trying to make Steven look like a perfect hero or anything like that. I can't speak for other people but I think most (if not all) the people who was disappointed with the situation and defending Steven was because they think he was mistreated/disrespected and all his flaws and past mistakes don't justify such treatment. Personally, I don't blame them for firing him back in the day, I think that was probably the right thing to do or the only way to go.

47 minutes ago, sanity_lost said:

What are people arguing? I am arguing that we don't know what all is involved and there are people on both sides of this issue. You call it disgusting and fucked up and not open to discussion. I disagree. Maybe it is a terminology issue. Because I do think it sucks, but as I don't know what all went down I can't call it anything worse than that. I can't speak for anyone else, but I don't mean to disparage Steven in my comments, I try to point out why the other side may have valid reasons for their actions. The other side might just be being sadistic assholes or they may wanted him involved, but had their reasons on why they were limiting it to guest appearances. As you have said, these reasons could be wide and varying. Yes you are only talking about Argentina, but the same applies to Argentina as it does to the rest of the tour. How it all ended up going down in Argentina really, really sucks in my opinion. I can't put fault at either side because I don't know how the misunderstanding came about.

I've been trying and trying to find logical explanations to the way things went down and that's why I'm limiting my comment to what happened in Argentina. I can understand that when Steven injured his back, the other guys decided to move on without him because they had to rehearse and play dates and Steven wasn't gonna be able to do it and that's why he ended up not being involved as it was originally planned. They could have let him rejoin them full time to play a few songs at every gig after one of the breaks but I can understand them deciding to just go on they way they were doing it since things were going well. I've really tried and done my best to see things their way and understand them BUT when it comes to what happened in Argentina, as much as I've tried, I've been unable to find a possible explanation that would make some sense to me.

And there's something I wanted to clarify (also to @WhazUp) about what I said about some people not having a heart. I totally didn't mean that about people who love the band and/or its three members regardless of the things that are going on that some people don't like/think are wrong. I was meaning to refer to the people who's been constantly putting Steven down and bashing him and who seem to be unable to feel any empathy. Like they just can't put themselves in Steven's shoes and imagine how hard it must be to stand at the side of the stage looking at your friends playing your songs with somebody else. Regardless of who's to blame, I think about it and it breaks my heart and I can't grasp the idea that some people is completely indifferent about it, like they just don't care at all and don't feel anything about it. Still, expressing myself in this language which isn't my native one is not the easiest thing for me (let alone when I write at 4am instead of fucking sleeping ) and that probaby came out really wrong. I didn't mean to offend anyone and I hope I didn't.

[WhazUp]

Its all good @BorderlineCrazy I totally get what you are saying and respect it!  I love both Steven and the current GNR lineup so for me it sucks a lot that Steven was and is unsatisfied with how it all went down.  He was the highlight of the show I saw where he came out, I love the guy and his drum sound!   Whatever is happening behind the scenes it is unfortunate both parties couldnt come to a better result in that case

Edited March 4, 2017 by WhazUp

[RONIN]

Just one question for the people who are arguing that we shouldn't draw conclusions since we don't know what exactly happened (i.e. stop speculating):

What would you have us do on a discussion forum?

This band doesn't release information. Period. When they do, it's largely horseshit or half-truths like Buckethead's abrupt exit from the band or Slash's lame attempt to save face after turning up at Axl's house in 2006. None of these guys are ever going to give us the actual story so like normal human beings, we piece together the events given what we know and draw our conclusions. If Chinese Whispers wasn't around, there would be almost nothing to document 1994-2005 aside from a few odd press releases from the band.

Given what we do know about this situation:

Do I think Adler tried something dumb like trying to play another song off the cuff without consulting the rest of the band?  Yep.

Is it silly for him to feel annoyed given that he knew exactly what he was getting into (Argentina gig)?  Yep.

Are his expectations that the band would behave like decent human beings and let him play more unreasonable?  Nope. 

Regardless of the exact circumstances, do Axl, Duff, and Slash look like greedy douchebags right now?  Yep.

[PatrickS77]

On 4.3.2017 at 9:56 PM, themadcaplaughs said:

First off, I have no issues with Frank, but it always hits me how great Steven sounds when I watch these videos.

Others here have stated my feelings. I would LOVE to see Steven back, but I am sure there are reasons to rely on him. Look how he ran his mouth after playing a few songs with the band at a handful of shows. Can you imagine the shit he'd say about Axl, Slash, and Duff after a whole tour? As someone else mentioned, Steven knew how many songs he'd play, and he even admitted the band paid for him to fly. Furthermore, after watching that video a few times, I'm not even entirely convinced he started to play. It looked like he was just mugging for the crowd.

Geez. Are you thick or what? Can't you see that the reason for him running his mouth is the very fact how he has been treated?? How he was not made a permanent part of the reunion. How he was made to watch someone else play his songs. Would he be allowed to do a whole tour, there would be no reason for him to be running his mouth. Axl, Duff and Slash's treatment of him is the reason for him speaking out. We, as fans, pay top dollars for these shows and make it all possible. It's disrespect to the max to both Steven and the fans of having Steven in the venue, to have him play a teaser worth of one song and then to have him step aside. It's not only Steven that gets disrespected. We get disrespected too.

Edited March 7, 2017 by PatrickS77

[TOS--LOA]

16 hours ago, RONIN said:

Just one question for the people who are arguing that we shouldn't draw conclusions since we don't know what exactly happened (i.e. stop speculating):

What would you have us do on a discussion forum?

This band doesn't release information. Period. When they do, it's largely horseshit or half-truths like Buckethead's abrupt exit from the band or Slash's lame attempt to save face after turning up at Axl's house in 2006. None of these guys are ever going to give us the actual story so like normal human beings, we piece together the events given what we know and draw our conclusions. If Chinese Whispers wasn't around, there would be almost nothing to document 1994-2005 aside from a few odd press releases from the band.

Given what we do know about this situation:

Do I think Adler tried something dumb like trying to play another song off the cuff without consulting the rest of the band?  Yep.

Is it silly for him to feel annoyed given that he knew exactly what he was getting into (Argentina gig)?  Yep.

Are his expectations that the band would behave like decent human beings and let him play more unreasonable?  Nope. 

Regardless of the exact circumstances, do Axl, Duff, and Slash look like greedy douchebags right now?  Yep.

Of course Axl, Duff and Slash look bad. We only have one side of the story from a manchild and his mom. 

[bigpoop]

29 minutes ago, TOS--LOA said:

 a manchild and his mom. 

[Asia]

3 minutes ago, bigpoop said:

Aaaaaa, did you really fucking have to post it, man??!!!

[Dangelus]

On 3/4/2017 at 8:07 AM, BorderlineCrazy said:

I still wonder what is people trying to argue.

Steven came to Argentina and was allowed to play only one song at each show. That is a disgusting thing to do and it's not up to discussion. It doesn't matter if that's the original arrengement or not, it's something disgusting to do to an old friend (and the fans, we were over the moon having Steven here and the band didn't care even when it meant no effort to let him play one more song each night at least). They had Angus Young (who I love but has NOTHING to do with GNR) playing two covers at three shows in a row but they couldn't let Steven play at least the two songs he had been playing with them at both shows. If you're ok with this, if you don't see how fucked up it is, then I'm sorry but you don't have a fucking heart.

Ths is not about Steven being a saint as some people want to present it. As I already said, I'm a way bigger fan of Slash and Axl than of Steven but I love them despite the things they do wrong, I don't need to pretend they do everything perfect. And I'm not even talking about Steven playing a full show nor all his songs at the shows because that can be more complex and they might have reasons to not do that (which they're stupid enough to not explain and just give vague answers), I'm talking about letting the guy play the two songs everyone was expecting at both shows. There is no possible explanation for that that could make sense, it's horrible, it looks like trying to make it clear to Steven that he's not wanted.

I was very pissed off and disappointed when Duff accepted to open for Axl's solo band with Loaded a few years ago. It was very similar to this, it was painful to see Duff being some sort of a bonus and then seeing a band using the name GNR with some random dude playing bass, playing Duff's stuff for 2-3 hours. It didn't make any sense and it was sad because Guns N' Roses is Duff's band, not Tommy Stinson's (and I love Tommy, not saying this against him). I mean, there are videos on YouTube titled "Guns N' Roses featuring Duff McKagan"!! What is that shit? There is no Guns N' Roses without motherfucking Duff McKagan!!! It was easier to accept Izzy's case because he seemed to be sort of disappeared and so it was nice to see him join Axl and play for his fans once again. It was weird and it was awkward and it was wrong but it was better than nothing. Duff's thing was more painful but he accepted it because he wanted to reconnect with Axl and it paid off (Axl said it wasn't the same guy as back in the day or something like that and here he is now). Now Steven's case, he just couldn't win, he was never given a real chance of anything. He was silent for the whole year, he practiced as much as possible, showed up at every gig he was invited and it made no difference. He did it because he NEEDED to do it and he probably felt/thought things could get better with time. Eventually he ended up putting an end to his participation when he finally realized that there was nothing else coming for him, that he was gonna be a wildcard showing up once in a while to play the same two songs while some random dude who has nothing to do with GNR was there playing HIS SONGS. And thank God I didn't have to see Slash guesting in GNR, standing on the side watching Dj or Finck butchering his songs, otherwise I would have probably jumped off a bridge. Maybe I should have taken the easy road and pretend Axl Rose is Guns N' Roses and who else is in the band is irrelevant but I can't, I happen to love this band, not just one man, one of the five members. The band with its spirit and sound and style and image and attitude.

Anyway, it doesn't matter if the casuals don't care and it doesn't matter if the band don't honor it, there are five guys who created this band, made it work and changed the lives of thousands of people. Steven's place in GNR's history can't be taken away and that warms my heart, especially when I have to see so many people unnecessarily trying to put him down for no reason. SLASH + IZZY + AXL + STEVEN + DUFF = GUNS N' ROSES

10/10 post dude. Couldn't agree more.

[downzy]

Personal insults will not be tolerated.  

Please consider this a general warning.  

[dgnr]

On 04/03/2017 at 8:07 AM, BorderlineCrazy said:

I still wonder what is people trying to argue.

Steven came to Argentina and was allowed to play only one song at each show. That is a disgusting thing to do and it's not up to discussion. It doesn't matter if that's the original arrengement or not, it's something disgusting to do to an old friend (and the fans, we were over the moon having Steven here and the band didn't care even when it meant no effort to let him play one more song each night at least). They had Angus Young (who I love but has NOTHING to do with GNR) playing two covers at three shows in a row but they couldn't let Steven play at least the two songs he had been playing with them at both shows. If you're ok with this, if you don't see how fucked up it is, then I'm sorry but you don't have a fucking heart.

Ths is not about Steven being a saint as some people want to present it. As I already said, I'm a way bigger fan of Slash and Axl than of Steven but I love them despite the things they do wrong, I don't need to pretend they do everything perfect. And I'm not even talking about Steven playing a full show nor all his songs at the shows because that can be more complex and they might have reasons to not do that (which they're stupid enough to not explain and just give vague answers), I'm talking about letting the guy play the two songs everyone was expecting at both shows. There is no possible explanation for that that could make sense, it's horrible, it looks like trying to make it clear to Steven that he's not wanted.

I was very pissed off and disappointed when Duff accepted to open for Axl's solo band with Loaded a few years ago. It was very similar to this, it was painful to see Duff being some sort of a bonus and then seeing a band using the name GNR with some random dude playing bass, playing Duff's stuff for 2-3 hours. It didn't make any sense and it was sad because Guns N' Roses is Duff's band, not Tommy Stinson's (and I love Tommy, not saying this against him). I mean, there are videos on YouTube titled "Guns N' Roses featuring Duff McKagan"!! What is that shit? There is no Guns N' Roses without motherfucking Duff McKagan!!! It was easier to accept Izzy's case because he seemed to be sort of disappeared and so it was nice to see him join Axl and play for his fans once again. It was weird and it was awkward and it was wrong but it was better than nothing. Duff's thing was more painful but he accepted it because he wanted to reconnect with Axl and it paid off (Axl said it wasn't the same guy as back in the day or something like that and here he is now). Now Steven's case, he just couldn't win, he was never given a real chance of anything. He was silent for the whole year, he practiced as much as possible, showed up at every gig he was invited and it made no difference. He did it because he NEEDED to do it and he probably felt/thought things could get better with time. Eventually he ended up putting an end to his participation when he finally realized that there was nothing else coming for him, that he was gonna be a wildcard showing up once in a while to play the same two songs while some random dude who has nothing to do with GNR was there playing HIS SONGS. And thank God I didn't have to see Slash guesting in GNR, standing on the side watching Dj or Finck butchering his songs, otherwise I would have probably jumped off a bridge. Maybe I should have taken the easy road and pretend Axl Rose is Guns N' Roses and who else is in the band is irrelevant but I can't, I happen to love this band, not just one man, one of the five members. The band with its spirit and sound and style and image and attitude.

Anyway, it doesn't matter if the casuals don't care and it doesn't matter if the band don't honor it, there are five guys who created this band, made it work and changed the lives of thousands of people. Steven's place in GNR's history can't be taken away and that warms my heart, especially when I have to see so many people unnecessarily trying to put him down for no reason. SLASH + IZZY + AXL + STEVEN + DUFF = GUNS N' ROSES

DUUUDE... I think I'm gonna print this and stick it in some wall!! Well done! I'm so glad I still had a like to spend in this post 

And after this your Boca really deserves the championship, as soon as your football starts working again and you can actually go to stadiums - Argentina without futbol is as much fucked up as GN'R without Steven  

[BorderlineCrazy]

1 hour ago, dgnr said:

DUUUDE... I think I'm gonna print this and stick it in some wall!! Well done! I'm so glad I still had a like to spend in this post 

And after this your Boca really deserves the championship, as soon as your football starts working again and you can actually go to stadiums - Argentina without futbol is as much fucked up as GN'R without Steven  

That's nice! If I ever go to Portugal, I'll sign it for you 

Well, football seems to be coming back this weekend, supposedly. Right now, I'm more excited about the Benfica vs Porto match that's coming in a few weeks, though. You can do this!

[WhazUp]

23 hours ago, RONIN said:

Just one question for the people who are arguing that we shouldn't draw conclusions since we don't know what exactly happened (i.e. stop speculating):

What would you have us do on a discussion forum?

To me personally the issues I have aren't even with speculating what possibly might be going on, but the issue is going on a discussion forum and instead of speculating, going off and harshly bashing one side or another and talking about what morally should have been done.  To me speculation with a sense of logic is fine, where discussions devolve is when the "big 3" are called money hungry sellouts or Steven Adler is called a junkie, stuff like that.  That to me just means we all should step back and look at what we really know about this issue - which is not much.

[BOSSY78]

On 3/3/2017 at 6:56 PM, BorderlineCrazy said:

In his last interview, he said "I did this to myself, I'm not a victim" but why listening to him when we can just bash him for wanting to play more than 8 minutes. What a delusional guy he is 

Really anxious to see you prove otherwise...

You can't make someone travel half the world to only let him play one song.

See the thing is Steven wasn't even supposed to be there that night. So yes it would be his fault. He showed up on an unscheduled day and demanded to play.

They let him play a song. My guess is even after he made a d**k move and walked out without noone knowing why he was even there when not scheduled, he could have played more on his scheduled night. But him trying to play more and screwing up a scheduled set he wasn't even a part of is likely what did it for him.

 

[BOSSY78]

On 3/5/2017 at 4:57 PM, RONIN said:

Just one question for the people who are arguing that we shouldn't draw conclusions since we don't know what exactly happened (i.e. stop speculating):

What would you have us do on a discussion forum?

This band doesn't release information. Period. When they do, it's largely horseshit or half-truths like Buckethead's abrupt exit from the band or Slash's lame attempt to save face after turning up at Axl's house in 2006. None of these guys are ever going to give us the actual story so like normal human beings, we piece together the events given what we know and draw our conclusions. If Chinese Whispers wasn't around, there would be almost nothing to document 1994-2005 aside from a few odd press releases from the band.

Given what we do know about this situation:

Do I think Adler tried something dumb like trying to play another song off the cuff without consulting the rest of the band?  Yep.

Is it silly for him to feel annoyed given that he knew exactly what he was getting into (Argentina gig)?  Yep.

Are his expectations that the band would behave like decent human beings and let him play more unreasonable?  Nope. 

Regardless of the exact circumstances, do Axl, Duff, and Slash look like greedy douchebags right now?  Yep.

I agree with most of what you said.

As a fan and I'm sure for Steven it must be hard for him watching someone else live the dream that he helped create and play music he was a part of.

On another hand I'm trying to see the side of the band, which we don't exactly know which is why we all spec on it. 

What I do know is he was rather quick to show disrespect and allow his mother too in interviews as well. He's very passive aggressive. 

As a fan it was never said Steven was back. My expectations were never that he would be. It was never promoted that way. I honestly feel this has a lot to do with the partnership, especially when it comes to Izzy since we know he wanted equal loot(his own words).

Rather it be a band or business I would never expect someone to just hand back someone an equal share whom was paid for their share already. Not out of the goodness of their heart and no matter how rich someone was. We wouldn't do it in our own personal lives and I don't expect them to either.

With Steven I would like to say a lot had to do with his rehearsals with Slash and Duff and I also believe that in time he may have been given more shows or time on stage. Perhaps it was a bit of let's see how he does with this type thing. Of course, I don't think he was ever gonna do all the show but perhaps it could have eventually been more.

As an outsider and not a fan looking in, I can see why it would piss them off to have him show up when he's not scheduled and demand to play. They may be thinking "there goes that ego again". Then after they allowed him to play a song on a non scheduled night he tried to play more. Professionally that is disrespectful. 

As a fan we see it as them disrespecting him by not letting him play more but they as the professionals who have a set and schedule don't.

It reminds me of that one time when he tried to play a song back in the old day and it wasn't the one the rest of band was playing and he got mad and kept playing it anyway. He wanted to play the song he wanted and that's not how it works. He was shut off then too.(short explanation here)

The set needs to be played in the order Axl, the singer wishes because it's his voice. Again they may see this situation as typical Steven. Fans see it as typical Axl.

With Axl's comments that he had invited Steven back stage one time and was rewarded by his reunion talk and disrespect in the media when things didn't go this way it makes sense to me how seeing Steven do the exact same thing was likely what they expected all along. I mean why not he tried to dictate the stage and what days he played an what songs he played already. Surely enough he's now started the interviews.

Remember he also had some things to say about how Slash and Duff supposedly felt about him right before this all reunion of sorts happened.

Sure they've all said bad shit in the media but it seems the band is trying to move on from their past issues. Meanwhile Steven is still living in them.

And promoting a book that blames your drug use on the band in its title is likely a sore subject as well. Of course his mother was called out on that and admitted once Steven told her the extent of his drug use before GnR she was wrong. She also said it was used to help sale the book. I can't imagine they take that very lightly either. 

I feel bad for Steven I really do. He will always be GnR to me just as Sorum will as well. I loved Sorum on Illusions.

Here's to hoping we get Izzy and here's to hoping there is a full on reunion for AFD. Though, I feel Steven may be messing up his chances to get something that seemed maybe possible before.

Sorry this is so long. My work schedule has been crazy and I'm catching up. Not all is a direct quote to anyone but my thoughts on things.

 

[Rovim]

33 minutes ago, BOSSY78 said:

See the thing is Steven wasn't even supposed to be there that night. So yes it would be his fault. He showed up on an unscheduled day and demanded to play.

They let him play a song. My guess is even after he made a d**k move and walked out without noone knowing why he was even there when not scheduled, he could have played more on his scheduled night. But him trying to play more and screwing up a scheduled set he wasn't even a part of is likely what did it for him.

 

I don't know if the "punishment" quite fits the "crime" here. I mean so what? what's the big deal? for them I mean... for Steven it's such a huge thing, and it would take so little from Axl to make it happen.

He probably just doesn't want to, for some reason I don't think he trusts Steven or wants him there at all. Is it really about Steven fuckin' up again, or is it just a case of Axl not really into giving him a chance to be a bigger part of it or at all?

My point is I think Steven didn't get a real chance of doing more with Guns and he doesn't deserve to be disrespected like this.

Edited March 7, 2017 by Rovim

[BOSSY78]

14 minutes ago, Rovim said:

I don't know if the "punishment" quite fits the "crime" here. I mean so what? what's the big deal? for them I mean... for Steven it's such a huge thing, and it would take so little from Axl to make it happen.

The truth is he just doesn't want to, for some reason I don't think he trusts Steven or wants him there at all. Is it really about Steven fuckin' up again, or is it just a case of Axl not really into giving him a chance to be a bigger part of it or at all?

My point is I think Steven didn't get a real chance of doing more with Guns and he doesn't deserve to be disrespected like this.

I agree there is a lack of trust but I don't think it's just Axl. Steven himself had some interesting things to say about Slash and Duff which show they didn't trust him on certain things.

Imagining being in a room listening to the 3 talk about it and wanting to see how things go. Now only using Steven's words here, Slash may have brought up that he feels he's lying to everyone about his sobriety and Duff may have brought up to collaborate when he allowed him to play for him and the disaster. Steven said Duff doesn't think he can play and they don't trust his sobriety and think he's lying. Again not saying they said it. I only have Steven's words here. Next Axl says yes and last time I hung with him he lived in the media and blamed me for his life being unhappy. On and on it goes. 

So yes I can see where according to Steven's own words there may have been trust issues and a sort of even probationary period or set of shows to see how he did and how he handled things.

We as fans only have Steven's words on his sobriety but to all I've heard again from Steven he's been sober. We know he's been putting out videos of him playing stuff but again we weren't there in rehearsals and they'd know more there than us. We also know he tried to show up unscheduled and tried to play whatever he wanted and play more than he was given on an unscheduled concert. That book.... And now his interviews at the very least show some of the points that may have been brought up. 

Of course we got Steven saying he was supposed to play more, sort of share the set with Frank and everything we have heard says differently. I sort of used that in my logic. I'm thinking maybe he was told it's a possibility. I'm honestly trying to make Steven's words true when so far on that matter they don't seem to be.

It would make sense at some point depending on how things went he could have had a bigger part. Perhaps those were Slash and or Duff's words to him. Maybe in this second leg even and leading up to AFD anniversary to where a special show could have been done. Again there I'm trying to take his word about Fernando wanting to do something and possibly having all 5 together for a show.

My fan side is heart broken for him. I was really looking forward to hearing him drum again with GNR. I can see where he feels that way and you do. My fan side does too.

Edited to add Steven's own words meaning things he's said and I used his thoughts to come up and spec on things based off what he said.

Edited March 7, 2017 by BOSSY78
Added

[BorderlineCrazy]

12 hours ago, BOSSY78 said:

See the thing is Steven wasn't even supposed to be there that night. So yes it would be his fault. He showed up on an unscheduled day and demanded to play.

They let him play a song. My guess is even after he made a d**k move and walked out without noone knowing why he was even there when not scheduled, he could have played more on his scheduled night. But him trying to play more and screwing up a scheduled set he wasn't even a part of is likely what did it for him.

 

Look, I'm pretty tired of arguing the same thing, we've been going in circles and I'd really like to move on but I gotta say what you're saying doesn't make any sense to me. You're talking as if the guys were about to hit the stage and Steven appeared out of nowhere and said "hey, how you doing? How many songs am I doing tonight?" while it's a known fact that Steven was in the band's hotel at least one day before the first show and played with them at the first shows's souncheck.

That doesn't change the (apprent) fact that Steven was supposed to play on the second show and not both but there were no dick moves, no surprise appearence or anything. The band knew he was there and the setlist could have been adapted to have him doing both songs both nights. 

[shjtjustgotreal]

Olee

ole ole ole

Steveen, steeeeeveen

[BOSSY78]

13 hours ago, BorderlineCrazy said:

Look, I'm pretty tired of arguing the same thing, we've been going in circles and I'd really like to move on but I gotta say what you're saying doesn't make any sense to me. You're talking as if the guys were about to hit the stage and Steven appeared out of nowhere and said "hey, how you doing? How many songs am I doing tonight?" while it's a known fact that Steven was in the band's hotel at least one day before the first show and played with them at the first shows's souncheck.

That doesn't change the (apprent) fact that Steven was supposed to play on the second show and not both but there were no dick moves, no surprise appearence or anything. The band knew he was there and the setlist could have been adapted to have him doing both songs both nights. 

In the Mitch Lafon interview Steven said he was there at the concert he had his wife in-laws sister law etc, like 9 people he said. He went up to go on stage cause he wanted to play a few songs and Axl was like wtf is he doing here? He's not supposed to be here until tomorrow. He then told him how he flew such amount of Miles and has his family there. He was allowed to play one song and the lights were turned off after he tried to play more and there was a discussion behind the riser with the crew who made him get off stage.

So yes I'm taking his explanation just as he explains it. He said he showed up at the concert on the wrong night. He admitted that. He said he was supposed to play the second night not that night. 

So yes to me it's a dick move he just showed up to play when he wasn't supposed to and then attempted to play more songs when he wasn't even supposed to be there. I guess some can say it's a dick move he wasn't allowed to play more and I get that too.

So yes sorry to me him saying Axl asked "wtf is he doing here he's supposed to be here tomorrow?", Shows the band as a whole didn't know. 

In another interview he explains further. His whole reasoning for just randomly showing up and trying to play on the wrong night was he and his wife have never been with his in-laws together at the same time. He said he's been with them or she's been with them but never together. I didn't understand how that was possible but it was his reasoning.

Not sure where the whole sound check part came from either. I've not heard that.

But yes round and round we all go because I can see what may be their side of things.

Sure my fan side feels sorry for him. The guy loves the band so much you can tell but at the same time he took no time to come out and do an interview. He spoke of Axl and the past again basically saying he was kicked out as a conspiracy so Axl could take over. That was within 5 minutes. He claimed he was doing less drugs then them. In the interview with his mother they claimed Axl was a big druggie which noone else has ever agrees with in the band. Each one of the band members have always said Axl wasn't an addict like they were. Claimed he was  an addict when he came out on MTV and said Steven wasn't a part of the band due to drugs. His mother claimed that and he agreed. Can't remember exactly words here that were said. But they were pretty bad.

His mother released a book, which is her right but admits the part of the title which says 'How I Lost My Son To Guns N' Roses' was to sale books and because she blamed the band for his drug addictions. A point Steven and Jay(interviewer) both proved her wrong on. 

I'm guessing Steven proved why there may be a lack of trust and sorry we disagree here which is fine but I can only feel sorry for a guy so much that says shit like this in the media right now.

I don't blame his choice to not want to only do a song here or there. That's terrible in my opinion that that's all he got to do but perhaps his actions now show me there is likely more there than we may ever understand. Trust being a big factor.

To me it seems the band is trying to move on from the past disagreements and things that kept them apart, Steven talking about it and acting like he wasn't really that bad on drugs just doesn't vibe here. We all know his drug use was a huge issue and why he was removed from the band. Steven distorting truths and placing his own blames on others isn't good for him.

I respect your opinion on how you feel on things perhaps you forgot the Lafon interview or his words idk.

 

 

Edited March 8, 2017 by BOSSY78
Edit

[The Holographic Universe]

24 minutes ago, BOSSY78 said:

In the Mitch Lafon interview Steven said he was there at the concert he had his wife in-laws sister law etc, like 9 people he said. He went up to go on stage cause he wanted to play a few songs and Axl was like wtf is he doing here? He's not supposed to be here until tomorrow. He then told him how he flew such amount of Miles and has his family there. He was allowed to play one song and the lights were turned off after he tried to play more and there was a discussion behind the riser with the crew who made him get off stage.

So yes I'm taking his explanation just as he explains it. He said he showed up at the concert on the wrong night. He admitted that. He said he was supposed to play the second night not that night. 

So yes to me it's a dick move he just showed up to play when he wasn't supposed to and then attempted to play more songs when he wasn't even supposed to be there. I guess some can say it's a dick move he wasn't allowed to play more and I get that too.

So yes sorry to me him saying Axl asked "wtf is he doing here he's supposed to be here tomorrow?", Shows the band as a whole didn't know. 

In another interview he explains further. His whole reasoning for just randomly showing up and trying to play on the wrong night was he and his wife have never been with his in-laws together at the same time. He said he's been with them or she's been with them but never together. I didn't understand how that was possible but it was his reasoning.

Not sure where the whole sound check part came from either. I've not heard that.

But yes round and round we all go because I can see what may be their side of things.

Sure my fan side feels sorry for him. The guy loves the band so much you can tell but at the same time he took no time to come out and do an interview. He spoke of Axl and the past again basically saying he was kicked out as a conspiracy so Axl could take over. That was within 5 minutes. He claimed he was doing less drugs then them. In the interview with his mother they claimed Axl was a big druggie which noone else has ever agrees with in the band. Each one of the band members have always said Axl wasn't an addict like they were. Claimed he was  an addict when he came out on MTV and said Steven wasn't a part of the band due to drugs. His mother claimed that and he agreed. Can't remember exactly words here that were said. But they were pretty bad.

His mother released a book, which is her right but admits the part of the title which says 'How I Lost My Son To Guns N' Roses' was to sale books and because she blamed the band for his drug addictions. A point Steven and Jay(interviewer) both proved her wrong on. 

I'm guessing Steven proved why there may be a lack of trust and sorry we disagree here which is fine but I can only feel sorry for a guy so much that says shit like this in the media right now.

I don't blame his choice to not want to only do a song here or there. That's terrible in my opinion that that's all he got to do but perhaps his actions now show me there is likely more there than we may ever understand. Trust being a big factor.

To me it seems the band is trying to move on from the past disagreements and things that kept them apart, Steven talking about it and acting like he wasn't really that bad on drugs just doesn't vibe here. We all know his drug use was a huge issue and why he was removed from the band. Steven distorting truths and placing his own blames on others isn't good for him.

I respect your opinion on how you feel on things perhaps you forgot the Lafon interview or his words idk.

 

 

You have a good perspective on the matter. I agree with you entirely. To me Steven isnt worthy of being a part of GNR in any capacity in the future. I believe that based off Stevens comments that it was communicated to him that he will never play more than one song again with GNR and that is why he is now running his mouth again. People can act like he deserves to be there, but if he wanted that to happen then he should have taken the Izzy approach. Steven is a goofy motherfuck who isnt respected by any musicians at all. And as I said before, nobody outside of this forum gives a shot about him.

Edited March 8, 2017 by The Holographic Universe

[BorderlineCrazy]

Steven at Slash and Duff's hotel on thursday morning. First show was on friday.

Steven leaving the hotel with the band to go to the stadium the day of the first show.

Steven with the band (except for that one member who was at a different hotel and doesn't show up for soundchecks) and crew doing the soundcheck for the first show. The pictures were uploaded by SLASH'S GIRLFRIEND.

So no, I'm sorry but I'm not buying the Steven tried to ambush the band theory. If they only wanted him to play the second show, they could have told him before taking him to the soundcheck but maybe they were fine with him doing both shows and there was only one guy who wasn't and he happened to find out at the very last moment...

Edited March 8, 2017 by BorderlineCrazy