Rate: Knockin' on Heaven's Door - Days of Thunder edition

[zombux]

On 8/3/2017 at 7:35 AM, Nasty Bronchitis said:

Hi guys. I'm new here. Lurker a long time ago, created an account finally.

This kind of discussion motivates me to do so.

Listen to Matt Sorum himself at 11:10 minute mark. He mentions working for the Days of Thunder soundtrack.

Spitfire vídeo interview Matt Sorum

As being said already, Steven's drumming style is so different than Matt. As pointed out by forum member EvH, both DOT and UYI versions are the SAME drum tracks. Just listen carefully to each other. Different mix: Hell DOT version has Izzy loud in the mix 

That's an interesting point that has always appeared on the KOHD Days Of Thunder drummer controversy. 

Valid but refutable.

Let's remember Steven was put in standby mode since the beginning of 1990, therefore they worked with a couple of drummers (Adam Maples, Martin Chambers).

All of this before Matt Sorum entered the picture.

According to Mick Wall, phone interviewing Axl,  Steven was "reinstated" in february under a new contract. Also it's mentioned the band was gonna reconvene in the studio in may and start working with new member Dizzy Reed.

My guess is that's when Sorum began working with them behind the scenes.

All of this while Adler already played his last gig in april at Farm Aid and was walking on thin ice. Signed away his rights, became a wage earner.

July press statement about Adler firing was a mere formal PR procedure. He was OUT of the unit months before.

 

 

bump... are there any "news" concerning this topic?

indeed, there was a huge mess during 1990, but it really seems like Matt Sorum was already doing some studio session work with GNR, resulting in Days of Thunder's KOHD (released June 1990, so the sessions must have happened before that) - while somewhat later, Steven Adler recorded Civil War in June 1990 (and was subsequently fired on July 11, 1990).

also, is there some firm date of Dizzy joining the band? some say that he joined at some point in late 1990, but based on that "Mick Wall phone interview" quote (I haven't heard it myself) Dizzy was already there around May 1990...

[F*ck Fear]

Anything from the AFD lineup. Those versions of KOHD will always be best, imo.

With that said, I've always loved the 2002 lineup's take on the song, too. Buckethead lays down some great guitar work, and Axl's vocal approach really fit it.

Everything thing else on the list I can pass on.

Never was a fan of the album version due to it having too much going on.

Hated the Reggae version. 

The current version sucks too.

[Tom2112]

This is definitely a song that is better at the gig, than listening to the gig at home. 

The nu-guns version are very long. I prefer the 90s versions of the song especially "give me some reggae" i'd love if they brought that back😁 absolute favorite version is Wembley Freddie tribute

[NeonKinight]

"I like the Nu-Guns version of KOHD best. Because Mr. Buckethead. That's why."

This solo...this is what knockin' on heavens door sounds like.

I dare to say that THIS is the best solo i've ever heard on a gnr song.

 

[Fashionista]

Can someone repost the DOT version?

[zombux]

4 minutes ago, Fashionista said:

Can someone repost the DOT version?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lzzo9E1HEtM

[Nikki_Sixx]

Remember guys, Slash and Duff saw Sorum play with The Cult on the 'Sonic Temple' tour at Universal Amphitheatre in LA, and this was the point of origin for their interest in Sorum as a replacement for Adler.

The Cult played the Universal Amphitheatre for two nights, April 1st and 3rd 1990.  These were the closing nights of the tour, which means Sorum was 'free' after those dates.

Just a tidbit of information to fuel the discussion

[zombux]

Just now, Nikki_Sixx said:

The Cult played the Universal Amphitheatre for two nights, April 1st and 3rd 1990.  These were the closing nights of the tour, which means Sorum was 'free' after those dates.

on the opposite side of the fence, GNR with Steven Adler played the Farm Aid IV on April 7th 1990. so... I smell some "Shadow company" there?  

[Jdawg19]

Ritz 88

[Drakestar]

On 7/25/2017 at 8:28 AM, Sosso said:

I prefer the HOB 2001 version wtih Buckethead. I really dig his solos at the Songs. Kinda mindblowing.

This version is the best from the 2006 tour imo:

 

I love this version as well. I'm not sure if it is the arrangement or that he actually tries to give a great vocal performance on it. It seemed like he was really feeling the song, becoming part of it and then presenting that to us. It is fun when he is running around like a lunatic as well, but sometimes it is nice just to feel the artistic vibe.

[default_]

On 25/07/2017 at 9:28 AM, Sosso said:

I prefer the HOB 2001 version wtih Buckethead. I really dig his solos at the Songs. Kinda mindblowing.

This version is the best from the 2006 tour imo:

 

This one is fantastic, Axl was fantastic in 2006, holy fn shit. 

[Blackstar]

12 hours ago, Nikki_Sixx said:

Remember guys, Slash and Duff saw Sorum play with The Cult on the 'Sonic Temple' tour at Universal Amphitheatre in LA, and this was the point of origin for their interest in Sorum as a replacement for Adler.

The Cult played the Universal Amphitheatre for two nights, April 1st and 3rd 1990.  These were the closing nights of the tour, which means Sorum was 'free' after those dates.

Just a tidbit of information to fuel the discussion

Yes, Sorum said in a 1991 interview that they called him right after the Cult tour was finished.

The Chicago sessions went nowhere, however, and the band returned to Los Angeles in disarray. Before leaving the Midwest, Slash and McKagan took in a Cult show at Alpine Valley Music Theater and were impressed by Sorum, a former Los Angeles session musician.

"That's when I first met they guys, and they were in kind of a state," Sorum recalls. "It [fame] got thrown on them in a major way. They came from out of the clubs to selling millions of records and they didn't have time to adjust...

"They didn't approach me again until the very last show I did with the Cult in April last year, so I had a sneaking suspicion something was going on.

"The next day, I got a call from Slash at my house. Originally, I was just to go down and do the album. Then, about two weeks into rehearsal, I went up to Slash's house for a little barbecue and he asked me to join the band."

http://www.a-4-d.com/t2886-1991-05-dd-interview-with-matt-on-chicago-tribune

20 hours ago, zombux said:

indeed, there was a huge mess during 1990, but it really seems like Matt Sorum was already doing some studio session work with GNR, resulting in Days of Thunder's KOHD (released June 1990, so the sessions must have happened before that) - while somewhat later, Steven Adler recorded Civil War in June 1990 (and was subsequently fired on July 11, 1990).

also, is there some firm date of Dizzy joining the band? some say that he joined at some point in late 1990, but based on that "Mick Wall phone interview" quote (I haven't heard it myself) Dizzy was already there around May 1990...

12 hours ago, zombux said:

on the opposite side of the fence, GNR with Steven Adler played the Farm Aid IV on April 7th 1990. so... I smell some "Shadow company" there?  

How do we know that Civil War was recorded in June? I'm under the impression it was recorded earlier.

Adler's "probation period" started on March 28, 1990. In the Mick Wall interview Axl mentions the Adler probation contract as something that had happened a week before, so that interview must have taken place in early April 1990, before Farm Aid (April 7).

All Slash, Duff and Adler in their books place the Civil War recording session right after Farm Aid (but they also all place the contract after the Civil War session, so it gets confusing there, because it's certain that it was signed on March 28)

Sorum says in the quote above that they called him right after the Cult tour ended (April 3) to rehearse, and two weeks later he was officially hired, which makes it late April-early May 1990.

It looks like Adler was officially fired in July 1990, but he was de facto fired earlier.

There is piano on Nobody's Child Civil War, isn't there? Maybe that's an indication that Dizzy was already there, or it was Axl playing?

Edited July 6, 2018 by Blackstar

[BreakDown2014]

 

 

When Chris Pitman actually made the difference

[Dean]

6 minutes ago, Wagszilla said:

Rocket Queen in 2002 is really quite wonderful thank to Mr. Pitman. 

Whenever possible...

[Sosso]

8 minutes ago, Wagszilla said:

Rocket Queen in 2002 is really quite wonderful thank to Mr. Pitman. 

Indeed! I always liked his additions to the songs. 

[UsedYourIllusion]

Gotta go with either Ritz ‘87, Marquee ‘87 or Rock In Rio II second night; just great versions period. Stripped down and more sincere sounding to me. Plus that high note during the call and response part of the Marquee version shows how great a singer early Axl really was

[Fashionista]

2 hours ago, Blackstar said:

Yes, Sorum said in a 1991 interview that they called him right after the Cult tour was finished.

The Chicago sessions went nowhere, however, and the band returned to Los Angeles in disarray. Before leaving the Midwest, Slash and McKagan took in a Cult show at Alpine Valley Music Theater and were impressed by Sorum, a former Los Angeles session musician.

"That's when I first met they guys, and they were in kind of a state," Sorum recalls. "It [fame] got thrown on them in a major way. They came from out of the clubs to selling millions of records and they didn't have time to adjust...

"They didn't approach me again until the very last show I did with the Cult in April last year, so I had a sneaking suspicion something was going on.

"The next day, I got a call from Slash at my house. Originally, I was just to go down and do the album. Then, about two weeks into rehearsal, I went up to Slash's house for a little barbecue and he asked me to join the band."

http://www.a-4-d.com/t2886-1991-05-dd-interview-with-matt-on-chicago-tribune

How do we know that Civil War was recorded in June? I'm under the impression it was recorded earlier.

Adler's "probation period" started on March 28, 1990. In the Mick Wall interview Axl mentions the Adler probation contract as something that had happened a week before, so that interview must have taken place in early April 1990, before Farm Aid (April 7).

All Slash, Duff and Adler in their books place the Civil War recording session right after Farm Aid.

Sorum says in the quote above that they called him right after the Cult tour ended (April 3) to rehearse, and two weeks later he was officially hired, which makes it late April-early May 1990.

It looks like Adler was officially fired in July 1990, but he was de facto fired earlier.

There is piano on Nobody's Child Civil War, isn't there? Maybe that's an indication that Dizzy was already there, or it was Axl playing?

The piano is credited to Dizzy on Civil War.

Axl said in an April 90 interview with Mick Wall that Steven was def out for a while, but that he did "the Guns N' Roses thing" and had cleaned up and was rehired. (We now know he was put on probation in March while the band tried out other drummers). Axl mentions in this same interview, conducted around April 6th that Dizzy has just been hired. Adler is still "in" the band but they are trying Matt out just in case. Farm Aid a week or so latee helps show the band they need a new drummer if they're gonna tour. Slash and Duff are becoming frustrated because Steve is either unable or unwilling to play the new songs their way. I think by May they start recording with Matt exclusively and out of this you get KOHD. Steven is officially a member of the band but I would imagine his last recording sessions are in April with perhaps a few last desperate attempts to get him straight in May and June. It's similar to how Izzy left in Aug 91, but the decision wasn't for sure and announced until November, or how Slash had been drifting out of Guns for a year but it wasn't made official until Oct 96. Basically these things are dragged out until it's certain the member can/will no longer be in the band. Matt was probably recording and on standby from April onward while they recorded also with Steven and hoped he'd get it together, and by July realized the situation wasn't fixable. Steven was the wife, Matt was the mistress lined up in the wings ready at a moment's notice.

 

 

Edited July 6, 2018 by Fashionista

[Blackstar]

16 minutes ago, Fashionista said:

The piano is credited to Dizzy on Civil War.

Yeah, the Nobody's Child version and the UYI are identical, aren't they? I just asked because maybe I missed something.

I remember the Mick Wall interview, that's why I mentioned it. I had a quick look in it again now, and I don't see a Dizzy mention, unless I missed it. Maybe it was another interview?

[Fashionista]

8 minutes ago, Blackstar said:

Yeah, the Nobody's Child version and the UYI are identical, aren't they? I just asked because maybe I missed something.

I remember the Mick Wall interview, that's why I mentioned it. I had a quick look in it again now, and I don't see a Dizzy mention, unless I missed it. Maybe it was another interview?

Yes, they are, even in terms of mixing and whatnot. The Dizzy part comes from an unpublished part of that interview, that Wall published in a book in 91 called The Most Dangerous Band in The World.

https://books.google.com/books?id=2NmZXj1MqqMC&pg=PA298&lpg=PA298&dq=axl+rose+dizzy+heavy+metal+piano,+D-I-Z-Z-Y+mick+wall&source=bl&ots=K10JxWDE07&sig=lOoEpNDnxTWcNPVK2O9PtzrhJwI&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiZvvzto4ncAhVHdt8KHckVDTsQ6AEIMzAB#v=onepage&q=axl rose dizzy heavy metal piano%2C

 

[Fashionista]

Also, according to Robert John, Axl was the last one who wanted to fire Steven. Slash and Duff were fed up long before him. Alan Niven, no lover of Axl's, has said this as well. He said the main issue wasn't drugs, but Steven not being up to playing the new songs; that Slash and Duff, who dealt with Steven more often, got tired quicker. Axl has said things to this effect himself.

"All the way up to getting Matt Sorum to play on the record, we thought that would get Steven back,” says Duff. “Then we realised, it’s just not going to happen. It’s just not. I wouldn’t be being honest if I told you I knew exactly the point.”

Basically, they were holding out hope Steven would get it together even after Matt joined. Basically look at April-July as a 3 month grace period where everyone hoped Steven would get it together while they recorded with Matt in case.

Edited July 6, 2018 by Fashionista

[Blackstar]

13 minutes ago, Fashionista said:

Yes, they are, even in terms of mixing and whatnot. The Dizzy part comes from an unpublished part of that interview, that Wall published in a book in 91 called The Most Dangerous Band in The World.

https://books.google.com/books?id=2NmZXj1MqqMC&pg=PA298&lpg=PA298&dq=axl+rose+dizzy+heavy+metal+piano,+D-I-Z-Z-Y+mick+wall&source=bl&ots=K10JxWDE07&sig=lOoEpNDnxTWcNPVK2O9PtzrhJwI&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiZvvzto4ncAhVHdt8KHckVDTsQ6AEIMzAB#v=onepage&q=axl rose dizzy heavy metal piano%2C

 

Thanks. The link leads to the Stephen Davis book, which references the 1991 Wall book. I've read the Davis book and I don't trust it much, it has a lot of mistakes. I haven't read the 1991 Wall book. In his newest book "The last of the Giants" he reproduces the 1990 interview mixed with parts of a radio interview (probably that's the "phone interview") he did with Axl at the same time, but there's no mention of Dizzy.

[Fashionista]

3 minutes ago, Blackstar said:

Thanks. The link leads to the Stephen Davis book, which references the 1991 Wall book. I've read the Davis book and I don't trust it much, it has a lot of mistakes. I haven't read the 1991 Wall book. In his newest book "The last of the Giants" he reproduces the 1990 interview mixed with parts of a radio interview (probably that's the "phone interview") he did with Axl at the same time, but there's no mention of Dizzy.

 

I had the 91 book and Dizzy was mentioned.

[zombux]

6 hours ago, Blackstar said:

How do we know that Civil War was recorded in June? I'm under the impression it was recorded earlier.

Adler's "probation period" started on March 28, 1990. In the Mick Wall interview Axl mentions the Adler probation contract as something that had happened a week before, so that interview must have taken place in early April 1990, before Farm Aid (April 7).

All Slash, Duff and Adler in their books place the Civil War recording session right after Farm Aid (but they also all place the contract after the Civil War session, so it gets confusing there, because it's certain that it was signed on March 28)

Sorum says in the quote above that they called him right after the Cult tour ended (April 3) to rehearse, and two weeks later he was officially hired, which makes it late April-early May 1990.

It looks like Adler was officially fired in July 1990, but he was de facto fired earlier.

hmm hard to say here, that 1990 info of mine "might" come from Wikipedia, which is not the most reliable source. anyway, Nobody's Child came out in July so the track must have been recorded somewhat earlier.

good point about Dizzy!

[Nikki_Sixx]

11 hours ago, Blackstar said:

Yes, Sorum said in a 1991 interview that they called him right after the Cult tour was finished.

The Chicago sessions went nowhere, however, and the band returned to Los Angeles in disarray. Before leaving the Midwest, Slash and McKagan took in a Cult show at Alpine Valley Music Theater and were impressed by Sorum, a former Los Angeles session musician.

"That's when I first met they guys, and they were in kind of a state," Sorum recalls. "It [fame] got thrown on them in a major way. They came from out of the clubs to selling millions of records and they didn't have time to adjust...

"They didn't approach me again until the very last show I did with the Cult in April last year, so I had a sneaking suspicion something was going on.

"The next day, I got a call from Slash at my house. Originally, I was just to go down and do the album. Then, about two weeks into rehearsal, I went up to Slash's house for a little barbecue and he asked me to join the band."

http://www.a-4-d.com/t2886-1991-05-dd-interview-with-matt-on-chicago-tribune

Thanks for that quote, it leads us to the following conclusion :

GNR were in the Mid-West (at the Metro in Chicago) in the summer of '89, to try to write and rehearse the UYI material.  No Izzy.  No Axl.  Mostly.

Slash and Duff went to see The Cult at Alpine Valley Music Theatre in East Troy, Wisconsin, on June 24th 1989, while they were in Chicago.

Like I said in my earlier post, they approached Sorum on April 3rd 1990, when The Cult played the Universal Amphitheatre, which was the closing night of the tour, so also the end of Sorum's commitment to The Cult.

Slash called Sorum at his house the next day, and things went on from there.

[Nasty Bronchitis]

On 5/7/2018 at 3:12 AM, zombux said:

bump... are there any "news" concerning this topic?

indeed, there was a huge mess during 1990, but it really seems like Matt Sorum was already doing some studio session work with GNR, resulting in Days of Thunder's KOHD (released June 1990, so the sessions must have happened before that) - while somewhat later, Steven Adler recorded Civil War in June 1990 (and was subsequently fired on July 11, 1990).

also, is there some firm date of Dizzy joining the band? some say that he joined at some point in late 1990, but based on that "Mick Wall phone interview" quote (I haven't heard it myself) Dizzy was already there around May 1990...

I've got a fixation towards 1989 and 1990 in Gn'R history timeline.

Hope @Gambit83 @sidman69 or @ArtTavana (his book about the band) get to discuss about this UYI pre production era. Find people like Martin Chambers or Adam Maples to get their impression about their auditions, for instance.

The Adler/Sorum transition must have been super akward. Wife and mistress analogy is perfect @Fashionista

Here watch this party held for Stevie Vai's "Passion and Warfare" album. Apparently it was released on july 1990.

You can see Adler hanging out as well as Duff. There was another video of the same party where both are together like everything is fine and cordial between them. Vídeo is no more on YT sadly.

Must have been weeks or days before he got officially fired.