DieselDaisy Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 4 minutes ago, Padme said: One of the reason why we have the WC is because of what I said. I don't like it. I'm just telling you the reality of the situation. If it was up to me I would have all European teams and five or six teams from the Americas. And that would be it. In that case all or most of them would have real chances to win Nah. That would remove all the beauty of the world cup!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Jaro- Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 17 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said: I don't agree. Every team should assume the mentality that there is a belief ''they can win the thing'', or why even bother in the first place? I totally agree with you on this one - main difference between Croatia 2018, with Croatia 2016, 2014, 2012... is that this year the went to Russia to win the World Cup, in years prior their goal was to pass the group and then we'll see... Same players, different approach and mindset... Every sport is competition and if winning isn't a goal, then it is not sport anymore... Achiving that goal is different because all the opponents (should) have the same goal... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Padme Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 Just now, DieselDaisy said: Nah. That would remove all the beauty of the world cup!! Now I don't understand you. You claim all teams expect to win. When you are told that's not the case. You come up with the beauty about Panama, Iran and Australia? They are not there because they are beautiful nor they make the WC beautiful. They are there to promote some unkown eventual good player. Yes it is possible that once in a blue moon a team like Iran could end up playing the round of 8. But that doesn't make them a powerful team. It would be just a one off thing like Leicester City Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 Just now, Padme said: Now I don't understand you. You claim all teams expect to win. When you are told that's not the case. You come up with the beauty about Panama, Iran and Australia? They are not there because they are beautiful nor they make the WC beautiful. They are there to promote some unkown eventual good player. Yes it is possible that once in a blue moon a team like Iran could end up playing the round of 8. But that doesn't make them a powerful team. It would be just a one off thing like Leicester City The brilliance of the world cup rests with your minnows (like the FA Cup), your ''giant killers'', - North Korea beating Italy in 1966 - Cameroon beating Maradona in Italia 1990. - Senegal beating France in 2002 - Korea in 2002 (semis, albeit with some shockingly biased umpiring). - Costa Rica in 2014 (advancing to the quarters and beaten on pens). Surely if there was a template for your Panamas to emulate, it was this? Look at Wales and Iceland in the last Euros. Croatia? Who rated them before 1998: they were not even an independent country until 1991! Yet here we are today, whilst not exactly ''minnows'' now with players like Modric, contesting the FIFA World Cup on Sunday - who would have backed them reaching the final? Your Germans and South Americans have been at home for weeks! So much for them. One day an outright minnow will do a Leicester City and win the World Cup. I'm convinced. It has already happened with the Euros, Greece '04. That is what the Panamanians should believe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtariLegend Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 Even Greece (and they were terrible), didn't play the weaker teams to get to the final. They beat the host nation Portugal twice (who beat England on penalties), helped eliminate Spain in the group stages, beat France (who beat England too) and beat the Czech Republic (who were fantastic in that tournament and by far played the best football). They were rubbish and it wasn't pretty, it required luck too... but they didn't take the easy path. Teams that get the easy route to the final without playing 2 or 3 fancied teams, tend to never win. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axl_morris Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 4 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said: One day an outright minnow will do a Leicester City and win the World Cup. I'm convinced. It has already happened with the Euros, Greece '04. That is what the Panamanians should believe. SCOTLAND Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 If you are entering the world cup in order to receive condescension from smug Europeans and South Americans - ''ahh bless them, they can even play quite well'' - and demonstrate your national dances and music with a cheerful face, going home happy to have been beaten in all your group matches, then you shouldn't be there. You enter a World Cup to win the thing. It is that simple. 2 minutes ago, Axl_morris said: SCOTLAND They'd have to firstly get there! I'm not even sure increasing the competition to 48 teams will get the Scots on the plane. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Padme Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 2 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said: The brilliance of the world cup rests with your minnows (like the FA Cup), your ''giant killers'', - North Korea beating Italy in 1966 - Cameroon beating Maradona in Italia 1990. - Senegal beating France in 2002 - Korea in 2002 (semis, albeit with some shockingly biased umpiring). - Costa Rica in 2014 (advancing to the quarters and beaten on pens). Surely if there was a template for your Panamas to emulate, it was this? Look at Wales and Iceland in the last Euros. Croatia? Who rated them before 1998: they were not even an independent country until 1991! Yet here we are today, whilst not exactly ''minnows'' now with players like Modric, contesting the FIFA World Cup on Sunday - who would have backed them reaching the final? Your Germans and South Americans have been at home for weeks! So much for them. One day an outright minnow will do a Leicester City and win the World Cup. I'm convinced. It has already happened with the Euros, Greece '04. That is what the Panamanians should believe. Again you are talking about a bunch one off situations. Panama celebrating one goal against England. That is not a team with expectations of winning anything. they were more than happy with that one goal. Greece 04 was because the Olympic Games were born in Greece back in the golden era of philosophy and the birth of Western Culture. They also hosted the first ever Olympics for that same reason. But Greece doesn't win more medals than the U.S., China or Germany Germany, Brazil, Italy, Netherland and Argentina will make a come back. The same way England did this time around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChristmasFnatic Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 1 hour ago, DieselDaisy said: France will be overwhelming favourites but I'll be rooting for you (you were my ''second team'' after Japan anyhow). You never know? This France are not the perfect team - they're not as good as the 1998-2000 team - and certainly a hell of a lot stranger things have happened in football such as Leicester City. I think your defenders will have to be perceptive about that Mbappe chap, who looks near unplayable. Also, Croatia are keeping alive the dream of a ''new'' World Cup winner rather than the same old bunch of knackers. It would be pleasing and fitting that such an unpredictable World Cup is concluded with a new World Cup winner. Just wondering, why did you pick Japan and Croatia? Not England, etc.? Also, to those more familiar with World Cup history, was there ever a time where a player didnt play to win or let another nation win(maybe cuz he is playing for that nation)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 3 minutes ago, Padme said: gain you are talking about a bunch one off situations. An ''one off situation''? 2002, South Korea beat Spain and Italy and got through to the semis where they were beaten by the Germans 1-0. Turkey got through to the semis in the same World Cup where they were beaten 1-0 by Brazil. A Turkey v South Korea 2002 World Cup Final was/is not inconceivable!! 2014, Costa Rica were beaten by pens in the quarters by the Dutch. 2018, Japan led Belgium 2-0, that same Belgium who were beaten 1-0 by France in a reasonably close encounter. A Japanese-Croatian final this time round was more than a distinct possibility. 9 minutes ago, Padme said: Greece 04 was because the Olympic Games were born in Greece back in the golden era of philosophy and the birth of Western Culture. They also hosted the first ever Olympics for that same reason. But Greece doesn't win more medals than the U.S., China or Germany Don't understand what this is all about?? 10 minutes ago, Padme said: Germany, Brazil, Italy, Netherland and Argentina will make a come back. The same way England did this time around. Some of them will. Some of them will regress. New minnows will emerge. Minnows this time round will no longer be considered ''minnows'' next time round. The football hierarchy is not a fixed monolith. It is in constant flux, and reassembled during every World Cup/Continental Competition, constantly on a two year basis. Uruguay were a superpower at one time, whereas now they are considered a middling side. Do you know who the greatest team of the 1950s were? The Hungarians, the Might Magyars. They would be considered outright minnows now if they even qualified for a World Cup. Did you know that the Germans were considered barely considered ''underdogs'' up until 1954 (this was just a few years after the war)? England this competition! England were considered a joke up to 2016, images of them being ridiculed and called ''wankers'' by their own supporters on the pitch after being defeated by Iceland. Now England are a respectably competitive ''force'' in world football again! You could say that the seeds of Croatia today were planted in 1998. Up until 1998 Croatia were outright minnows. Croatia have built dynasties and are now seeing the fruits. Within a twenty year period Croatia have advanced from minnows, through to middling, to now contesting a Final. Who is to say there won't be a period of Croatian domination thereafter? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waemoth Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 15 minutes ago, ChristmasFnatic said: Also, to those more familiar with World Cup history, was there ever a time where a player didnt play to win or let another nation win(maybe cuz he is playing for that nation)? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disgrace_of_Gijón Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 15 minutes ago, ChristmasFnatic said: Just wondering, why did you pick Japan and Croatia? Not England, etc.? I said ''second team''. I took it as granted that most would assume my ''first team'' would be England. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvanG Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 11 hours ago, Waemoth said: Well here in Sweden, getting that bronze is still seen today as a great achievement. I agree. Holland got bronze 4 years ago... at first nobody cared about that match, including the team, but they still went out there to win and demolished Brazil. It's still disappointing that they didn't reach the finals because of penalties (yet again), but we can look back at that world cup and say that they didn't lose a single match. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChristmasFnatic Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 5 minutes ago, Waemoth said: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disgrace_of_Gijón Will read. Thanks! 4 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said: I said ''second team''. I took it as granted that most would assume my ''first team'' would be England. Thought Padme is from Croatia. Sorry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 1 minute ago, EvanG said: I agree. Holland got bronze 4 years ago... at first nobody cared about that match, including the team, but they still went out there to win and demolished Brazil. It's still disappointing that they didn't reach the finals because of penalties (yet again), but we can look back at that world cup and say that they didn't lose a single match. Should have won it in 2010 if your manager had not decided on the strategy and tactics to basically foul the Spanish rather than play football. What a wasted opportunity as that was a talented generation of Dutch players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waemoth Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 From the Swedish Wikipedia article of the 1994 World Cup. I think it examplifies just how highly that bronze was regarded quite well. "Sweden played one of its best tournaments ever and finished in third place after a 4–0 victory versus Bulgaria in the bronze match. In Sweden, the World Cup bronze resulted in euphoria. In January 2001, Thomas Ravelli's match winning penalty save in the quarterfinal against Rumania was named one of history's greatest moments in sports." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvanG Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 3 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said: Should have won it in 2010 if your manager had not decided on the strategy and tactics to basically foul the Spanish rather than play football. What a wasted opportunity as that was a talented generation of Dutch players. It was because of Iker Casillas' toe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Waemoth said: From the Swedish Wikipedia article of the 1994 World Cup. I think it examplifies just how highly that bronze was regarded quite well. "Sweden played one of its best tournaments ever and finished in third place after a 4–0 victory versus Bulgaria in the bronze match. In Sweden, the World Cup bronze resulted in euphoria. In January 2001, Thomas Ravelli's match winning penalty save in the quarterfinal against Rumania was named one of history's greatest moments in sports." Well all that does is speak about the paltry number of ''great'' Swedish ''moments in sport''. PS If I was Swedish I'd be thinking more of, taking Brazil until the 80th minute goalless in a semi-final rather than a meaningless ''best of the worst'' play-off. Edited July 12, 2018 by DieselDaisy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moreblack Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 Croatia also possesses currently the Unofficial Football World Championship Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waemoth Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 (edited) 3 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said: Well all that does is speak about the paltry number of ''great'' Swedish ''moments in sport''. No shit. This is exactly what I'm saying. Not every nation has a background as contenders for the World Cup gold, nor did they ever have a chamce to win it. Which is why getting a bronze isn't a trash performance from quite a lot of teams over the world. Stop being defensive, and stop being naive. You're doing no one a favor. Edited July 12, 2018 by Waemoth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 2 minutes ago, Waemoth said: No shit. This is exactly what I'm saying. Not every nation has a background as contenders for the World Cup gold, nor did they ever have a chamce to win it. Which is why getting a bronze isn't a trash performance from quite a lot of teams over the world. ''Bronze'' bah. If you look at the losing finalists, silver, most of them remove their medals as they want nothing to do with them. The World Cup isn't the Olympics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waemoth Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 2 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said: ''Bronze'' bah. If you look at the losing finalists, silver, most of them remove their medals as they want nothing to do with them. The World Cup isn't the Olympics. Again, you can't seem to break free from your perspective of being from a nation which actually is good at football. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 Just now, Waemoth said: Again, you can't seem to break free from your perspective of being from a nation which actually is good at football. You're joking? I'm English! Granted there is less congruence than before this world cup started. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvanG Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 Huh? Daisy is English? I had no idea... But seriously, I agree partly with him, in sports being number one is the only thing that matters. Period. In tennis Federer has won 20 slams, but he played a lot more grand slam finals, but most people can't tell you how many he lost because they don't care about second place. But in hindsight it's still an achievement and it's better to be third than fourth. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waemoth Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 5 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said: You're joking? I'm English! Granted there is less congruence than before this world cup started. Over the years, the English teams has quite frequently made it to the quarter finals, have they not? I get that English football wasn't exactly at an all-time high previously, but despite that, they were still among the better teams around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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