SoulMonster Posted May 30, 2023 Share Posted May 30, 2023 4 minutes ago, allwaystired said: "Flaunt being gay all the time"- you mean, people just being themselves? Should people 'tone down' their sexuality? Being 'too gay' is a problem?! The judge? People should act straight when being judged to avoid trouble?! Bloody hell I thought we'd left these sort of comments behind in the dark ages. What I am saying is that if being yourself means that you flaunt a homosexual lifestyle, then UAE - as well as many other countries in the world -- is unfortunately not a good tourist destination for you. That's just how it is. If you do flaunt being homosexual, and are questioned by the police, and eventually a judge, I would advise to tone it down fot your own safety. And if you up to this point was unaware of the harsh reality facing gays around the world, then I am sorry to disappoint you. Going back to my original point: there is no problem being a gay tourist in a country like UAE. Unless you are stupid about it. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allwaystired Posted May 30, 2023 Share Posted May 30, 2023 (edited) 12 minutes ago, SoulMonster said: What I am saying is that if being yourself means that you flaunt a homosexual lifestyle, then UAE - as well as many other countries in the world -- is unfortunately not a good tourist destination for you. That's just how it is. If you do flaunt being homosexual, and are questioned by the police, and eventually a judge, I would advise to tone it down fot your own safety. And if you up to this point was unaware of the harsh reality facing gays around the world, then I am sorry to disappoint you. Going back to my original point: there is no problem being a gay tourist in a country like UAE. Unless you are stupid about it. What is the acceptable level of gay in this bizarro world? I'd love to know the definitions..... You do realise how offensive it is to tell people they should 'tone down' being gay right?! "Flaunting a homosexual lifestyle". Fucking hell. Edited May 30, 2023 by allwaystired 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulMonster Posted May 30, 2023 Share Posted May 30, 2023 4 minutes ago, allwaystired said: What is the acceptable level of gay in this bizarro world? I'd love to know the definitions..... We are not talking about "this bizarro world", we are talking about United Arab Emirates. UAE would argue that the "acceptable level of gay" is zero. I would argue that you can easily travel there as a gay tourist, but if you would prefer to avoid unpleasantness, you ought to not flaunt being gay while being there. 5 minutes ago, allwaystired said: You do realise how offensive it is to tell people they should be 'tone down' being gay right?! Only while travelling in countries where homosexuality is a capital crime Why are you trying to make this into me being against "gay flaunting" in general? I am OBVIOUSLY talking about travel advice when travelling to countries that have death sentence for homosexuality. Would you recommend gay people to travel there and openly advocate their sexuality? Is that your advice to gays? Come on now, @allwaystired, would you recommend gay people to travel to Dubai and flaunt being gay? Or do you agree that would be a bad decision? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulMonster Posted May 30, 2023 Share Posted May 30, 2023 I did a quick check of gay magazine's recommendations when travelling to UAE (oh mygnrforum, how you screw with my browser history), Like Nomadic Boys, and OF COURSE they recommend to not overtly express any homosexuality while in UAE. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allwaystired Posted May 30, 2023 Share Posted May 30, 2023 Just now, SoulMonster said: We are not talking about "this bizarro world", we are talking about United Arab Emirates. UAE would argue that the "acceptable level of gay" is zero. I would argue that you can easily travel there as a gay tourist, but if you would prefer to avoid unpleasantness, you ought to not flaunt being gay while being there. Only while travelling in countries where homosexuality is a capital crime Why are you trying to make this into me being against "gay flaunting" in general? I am OBVIOUSLY talking about travel advice when travelling to countries that have death sentence for homosexuality. Would you recommend gay people to travel there and openly advocate their sexuality? Is that your advice to gays? Come on now, @allwaystired, would you recommend gay people to travel to Dubai and flaunt being gay? Or do you agree that would be a bad decision? I recommend anyone to be themselves at all times, and the very moment someone tells them "not to flaunt a homosexual lifestyle" or to "tone down" their sexuality to tell them to get back to the dark ages. I'm amazed anyone would say that to honest. And anywhere you may put yourself at risk for being who you are isn't a place that deserves your time, effort or money. Next up: black people should 'act less black' when dealing with the police? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulMonster Posted May 30, 2023 Share Posted May 30, 2023 (edited) 8 minutes ago, allwaystired said: I recommend anyone to be themselves at all times, and the very moment someone tells them "not to flaunt a homosexual lifestyle" or to "tone down" their sexuality to tell them to get back to the dark ages. I'm amazed anyone would say that to honest. And anywhere you may put yourself at risk for being who you are isn't a place that deserves your time, effort or money. Next up: black people should 'act less black' when dealing with the police? :O If a gay friend of yours asked you for advice travelling to UAE, and specifically asked your opinion on kissing other men while in public there, your advice would basically be, "Go for it, be yourself!"??? That's one of the least responsible things I have read in a while. Wow. And yes, my whole point was that if you can't accept not kissing your boyfriend while in UAE, then UAE is NOT a good tourist destination for you. I am all for people refusing to accommodate barbaric laws, but I would never advise anything to travel to UAE to make a stand if that could result in extreme legal unpleasantness, at least not without making sure they are 100% aware of the potential consequences. That's the shitty card gays are still dealt in large portions of this world. And how disingenuous is it of you to constantly leave out the fact we are talking about UAE in your responses, as I am arguing that people in general should be less gay? Is it punishable by death to be black where you live? Or have you fundamentally failed to grasp this discussion? Edited May 30, 2023 by SoulMonster Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulMonster Posted May 30, 2023 Share Posted May 30, 2023 (edited) The site Queer In The World states: "Almost all reports for arrests for same-sex sexual activity [in Dubai] we could find involved having sex in a public place, so in case you were in doubt, public displays of affection are unquestionably off-limits whether you are gay, straight or unicorn." But don't listen to that, listen to @allwaystired who thinks you shouldn't heed such advice but "be yourself at all times". Edited May 30, 2023 by SoulMonster Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulMonster Posted May 30, 2023 Share Posted May 30, 2023 From the site Garcón International: "In 2008, a British couple was sentenced to three months in prison for engaging in homosexual acts in public [in the UAE]. In 2017, a gay Scottish man was sentenced to three months in prison for touching a man's hip in a bar. Although, the ruler of the Dubai Emirate (Sheikh Mohammed bin Rashid Al Maktoum) eventually intervened and forced these charges to be dropped. These incidents show that even innocent actions can be interpreted as homosexuality and result in imprisonment." But no, according to @allwaystired you shouldn't care about this, be yourself. If it feels natural to caress other men in public in UAE then go for it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rovim Posted May 30, 2023 Share Posted May 30, 2023 21 minutes ago, allwaystired said: I recommend anyone to be themselves at all times, and the very moment someone tells them "not to flaunt a homosexual lifestyle" or to "tone down" their sexuality to tell them to get back to the dark ages. I'm amazed anyone would say that to honest. And anywhere you may put yourself at risk for being who you are isn't a place that deserves your time, effort or money. Next up: black people should 'act less black' when dealing with the police? what if that someone can ruin your life or worse? if principals alone dictated every action in a human being, it would have been a disaster cause you need to consider what the reality is and respect it for self preservation. You make it sound like it was one guy in the streets of some democratic country and not the law in the UAE (as fucked up as it is) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allwaystired Posted May 30, 2023 Share Posted May 30, 2023 Just now, Rovim said: what if that someone can ruin your life or worse? if principals alone dictated every action in a human being, it would have been a disaster cause you need to consider what the reality is and respect it for self preservation. You make it sound like it was one guy in the streets of some democratic country and not the law in the UAE (as fucked up as it is) Alternatively, you could avoid the place like the plague and spend your time and money in a country with a semi-decent human rights record. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allwaystired Posted May 30, 2023 Share Posted May 30, 2023 11 minutes ago, SoulMonster said: From the site Garcón International: "In 2008, a British couple was sentenced to three months in prison for engaging in homosexual acts in public [in the UAE]. In 2017, a gay Scottish man was sentenced to three months in prison for touching a man's hip in a bar. Although, the ruler of the Dubai Emirate (Sheikh Mohammed bin Rashid Al Maktoum) eventually intervened and forced these charges to be dropped. These incidents show that even innocent actions can be interpreted as homosexuality and result in imprisonment." But no, according to @allwaystired you shouldn't care about this, be yourself. If it feels natural to caress other men in public in UAE then go for it! I'm saying fuck visiting some dictatorial regime where you have to be something you're not. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulMonster Posted May 30, 2023 Share Posted May 30, 2023 (edited) 37 minutes ago, allwaystired said: And anywhere you may put yourself at risk for being who you are isn't a place that deserves your time, effort or money. That's an admirable position to take, but very unpractical. Sometimes we have to travel to areas with laws that offend us or directly endanger us. If you happen to be gay, that would include a very large portion of the world, I am afraid. And yes, you can just stay at home (wherever that is), but then you devalue your life. Besides, what if you are invited to a wedding in Abu Dhabi (like I was), would you then stand on your principles? What if your business takes you to Saudi Arabia? An an atheist it is not that different to me. I have travelled extensively in countries where my lack of faith could result in death. And as you might know, I am fond of arguing for atheism, yet I won't do that if I risk death as a consequence. I am pragmatic, For me, that beats being principled. So no, I would never proclaim my faithlessness from a podium in Teheran, nor would I recommend a gay man kissing another man on Jumeirah Beach. But sure, if you can't accept this, then just stay at home. But don't come at me as if my well-meant advice means that I in any shape or form agree with discrimination against gays. 4 minutes ago, allwaystired said: I'm saying fuck visiting some dictatorial regime where you have to be something you're not. No, that is not what you are saying. You are saying that I am offensive to gay people because I advise them to not flaunt their homosexuality while in UAE, an advice shared by every gay website I have read over the last 30 minutes. Edited May 30, 2023 by SoulMonster Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rovim Posted May 30, 2023 Share Posted May 30, 2023 (edited) 11 minutes ago, allwaystired said: Alternatively, you could avoid the place like the plague and spend your time and money in a country with a semi-decent human rights record. you can also totally avoid where the discussion is at currently which you are already doing. Point is: gay people who already chose to visit such places with shit laws should definitely not flaunt their sexuality. Gay tourists still visit these places and so, the way that you think they should conduct themselves is uninformed at best imo. Edited May 30, 2023 by Rovim 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allwaystired Posted May 30, 2023 Share Posted May 30, 2023 Well, I don't think my life is devalued whatsoever by not visiting these countries. Thanks for the travel advice folks. And thanks for getting involved @Rovim A job on the Travel Board in the UAE awaits you both! Your work here is done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rovim Posted May 30, 2023 Share Posted May 30, 2023 (edited) 10 minutes ago, allwaystired said: Well, I don't think my life is devalued whatsoever by not visiting these countries. Thanks for the travel advice folks. And thanks for getting involved @Rovim A job on the Travel Board in the UAE awaits you both! Your work here is done. that wasn't the question. If your life is missing that special trip to the UAE, but how a gay tourist should behave where homosexuallity is illegal. it's a forum, so I'll get involved when I want to get involved in the conversation. If you're not interested in my opinions, you can always ignore it. Edited May 30, 2023 by Rovim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allwaystired Posted May 30, 2023 Share Posted May 30, 2023 7 minutes ago, Rovim said: that wasn't the question. If your life is missing that special trip to the UAE, but how a gay tourist should behave where homosexuallity is illegal. it's a forum, so I'll get involved when I want to get involved in the conversation. If you're not interested in my opinions, you can always ignore it. Oh no, no. I couldn't possibly. I always find your valiant knight defence of GNR against the maurading naysayers very endearing. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulMonster Posted May 30, 2023 Share Posted May 30, 2023 13 minutes ago, allwaystired said: Well, I don't think my life is devalued whatsoever by not visiting these countries. Thanks for the travel advice folks. And thanks for getting involved @Rovim A job on the Travel Board in the UAE awaits you both! Your work here is done. If this discussion has provided some actual information of the do and don'ts of travelling as a gay person to the UAE, then that is great. I don't know if the Travel Board would be happy though But seriously, if you accept going there without flaunting your sexuality, whether gay or straight, then you will be entirely fine. Lots of gay people travel there, hook up using Grindr, go to clubs, and have a great time. Just be aware of what you shouldn't do. And if people don't want to do that, if they don't want to curb themselves or don't want to visit countries with laws the don't like, that is fine, too. What is not fine is lambasting me for providing sense advice shared by gay organizations themselves and trying to paint me as against gay behavior myself, or suggesting that gay people should "be themselves" in countries where that could have severe implications. The former is laughable, the latter is irresponsible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allwaystired Posted May 30, 2023 Share Posted May 30, 2023 (edited) 19 minutes ago, SoulMonster said: If this discussion has provided some actual information of the do and don'ts of travelling as a gay person to the UAE, then that is great. I don't know if the Travel Board would be happy though But seriously, if you accept going there without flaunting your sexuality, whether gay or straight, then you will be entirely fine. Lots of gay people travel there, hook up using Grindr, go to clubs, and have a great time. Just be aware of what you shouldn't do. And if people don't want to do that, if they don't want to curb themselves or don't want to visit countries with laws the don't like, that is fine, too. What is not fine is lambasting me for providing sense advice shared by gay organizations themselves and trying to paint me as against gay behavior myself, or suggesting that gay people should "be themselves" in countries where that could have severe implications. The former is laughable, the latter is irresponsible. I think we'll just leave "if you are the type who have to flaunt being gay all the time" sitting there. I'd love to know what a "flaunting gay type" is..... Anyway, we should probably move on from this enlightening chat and get back on topic. So.....any new info on the tour anyone? Edited May 30, 2023 by allwaystired Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulMonster Posted May 30, 2023 Share Posted May 30, 2023 6 minutes ago, allwaystired said: I think we'll just leave "if you are the type who have to flaunt being gay all the time" sitting there. I'd love to know what a "flaunting gay type" is..... In the context of the UAE - which again is what we are talking about - that would be someone who can't refrain from public displays of homosexual affection. Like holding hands, hugging, kissing or even gentle touching. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BucketEgg Posted May 30, 2023 Share Posted May 30, 2023 It's starting tomorrow! Most likely nothing new will be in the setlist, but who knows? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ssiscool Posted May 30, 2023 Share Posted May 30, 2023 32 minutes ago, BucketEgg said: It's starting tomorrow! Most likely nothing new will be in the setlist, but who knows? Perhaps a couple of different covers? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stay.Of.Execution Posted May 30, 2023 Author Share Posted May 30, 2023 40 minutes ago, BucketEgg said: It's starting tomorrow! nope 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BucketEgg Posted May 30, 2023 Share Posted May 30, 2023 11 minutes ago, Stay.Of.Execution said: nope ah crap, i forgot may has 31 days 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cineater Posted May 30, 2023 Share Posted May 30, 2023 3 hours ago, BucketEgg said: ah crap, i forgot may has 31 days And we have the whole issue of what time is it there when I'm here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stay.Of.Execution Posted May 30, 2023 Author Share Posted May 30, 2023 15 minutes ago, cineater said: And we have the whole issue of what time is it there when I'm here. Two hours ahead of central Europe. 8 hours ahead of nyc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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