2023 WORLD TOUR

[SoulMonster]

1 hour ago, jamillos said:

The principle is the same.  

There is clearly a difference between allowing athletes to travel abroad to compete and taking culture to a country.

[SoulMonster]

53 minutes ago, Lio said:

A GNR show won't do the homosexuals any good either. Big acts doing shows there will benefit the leaders/leading class of those countries imo, and that's what I personally wouldn't want to be doing. I don't want to support a country like that in any way.

GNR can be political with Trump (not my president) and Ukraine (the flags), but then do a show in a country where it's illegal to be gay? Yeah, sorry, I don't get that. I wonder if none of the crew are gay.

A single GN'R show won't do much a difference, yes, but culturally boycotting a country or not boycotting a country can make a huge difference in the long run. We have much more ways of impacting the direction of a country if we actually have interacting surfaces than if we decide that "I hate this, we are going to stay far away from this country and let them sort things out themselves." Again, look at Iran, what good has our boycotting of Iran, economic and cultural, done to the people there? And compare to UAE which has developed far in the right direction. UAE is one of the most multicultural places on earth and yes, there are lots of issues there still, but they are moving in the right direction (just like Saudi). It wouldn't have happened so quickly if we had boycotted these countries to the point where there was no business, tourism and culture exchange. That would have created another "us vs them" situation which the regimes would have use for all its worth.

And does only the elite benefit from, say, a rock country taking place in their country? Or does the entire people benefit from such normalized relations, especially those who actually go to the show, those who earn money from selling food outside the venue, the taxi drivers that bring people to the event, the hotels that host tourists coming for the event? What about newspapers who report on the foreign, "dangerous rockers" and they lyrics and their image? Can this lead to discussions around the dinner tables? Can these led to youth being inspired? And just imagine what impact it would have if, say, an artist said something gay-friendly during a show in, say, Saudi Arabia. It's a wonderful opportunity to actually do something good, to have an impact. 

To me this is fairly simple. If we turn away because we are rightfully appalled by how a country behaves, like in relation to gays, we immediately kill off our ability to actually make a difference. It is only through communication (and I use that word widely now), that we can have an impact. Boycotting, especially financial, benefits the elite who then have an outside enemy they can point to to unite their people (which is alpha and omega for terrible regimes) and who can anyways simple continue to be enriched through corruption that circumvents boycots.

Look at the efforts some terrible regimes have put in place to avoid "cultural pollution", by restricting Internet and foreign TV broadcasts. They are immensely afraid of their youth comparing outside countries to their own country and saying, "Why can't we have this, too?" because that would inevitably lead to demands of reforms, which in turn can lead to demonstrations and attempt at overtaking the regime. 

54 minutes ago, cineater said:

Er, I just said I don't get a good vibe off that city. 

Have you been to Abu Dhabi?

[Stay.Of.Execution]

3 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

A single GN'R show won't do much a difference, yes, but culturally boycotting a country or not boycotting a country can make a huge difference in the long run. We have much more ways of impacting the direction of a country if we actually have interacting surfaces than if we decide that "I hate this, we are going to stay far away from this country and let them sort things out themselves." Again, look at Iran, what good has our boycotting of Iran, economic and cultural, done to the people there? And compare to UAE which has developed far in the right direction. UAE is one of the most multicultural places on earth and yes, there are lots of issues there still, but they are moving in the right direction (just like Saudi). It wouldn't have happened so quickly if we had boycotted these countries to the point where there was no business, tourism and culture exchange. That would have created another "us vs them" situation which the regimes would have use for all its worth.

And does only the elite benefit from, say, a rock country taking place in their country? Or does the entire people benefit from such normalized relations, especially those who actually go to the show, those who earn money from selling food outside the venue, the taxi drivers that bring people to the event, the hotels that host tourists coming for the event? What about newspapers who report on the foreign, "dangerous rockers" and they lyrics and their image? Can this lead to discussions around the dinner tables? Can these led to youth being inspired? And just imagine what impact it would have if, say, an artist said something gay-friendly during a show in, say, Saudi Arabia. It's a wonderful opportunity to actually do something good, to have an impact. 

To me this is fairly simple. If we turn away because we are rightfully appalled by how a country behaves, like in relation to gays, we immediately kill off our ability to actually make a difference. It is only through communication (and I use that word widely now), that we can have an impact. Boycotting, especially financial, benefits the elite who then have an outside enemy they can point to to unite their people (which is alpha and omega for terrible regimes) and who can anyways simple continue to be enriched through corruption that circumvents boycots.

Look at the efforts some terrible regimes have put in place to avoid "cultural pollution", by restricting Internet and foreign TV broadcasts. They are immensely afraid of their youth comparing outside countries to their own country and saying, "Why can't we have this, too?" because that would inevitably lead to demands of reforms, which in turn can lead to demonstrations and attempt at overtaking the regime. 

Why lots of it is true, you can look at Qatar. That country has benefited a lot from football the past ten years and even got a world cup handed to them. But it doesn't really look like it had an effect regarding human rights over there. The money goes to the wrong people and they can do whatever they fuck they want with it. 

Also I don't think that either way, boycotting or not, will have an effect on a country and their culture really. That's something that has to develop from within 

Edited May 29, 2023 by Stay.Of.Execution

[SoulMonster]

4 minutes ago, Stay.Of.Execution said:

Why lots of it is true, you can look at Qatar. That country has benefited a lot from football the past ten years and even got a world cup handed to them. But it doesn't really look like it had an effect regarding human rights over there. The money goes to the wrong people and they can do whatever they fuck they want with it. 

Also I don't think that either way, boycotting or not, will have an effect on a country and their culture really. That's something that has to develop from within 

Qatar is also moving in the right direction. The FIFA World Cup was a great opportunity to exert some pressure on the regime there, but FIFA botched it. Fucking pathetic FIFA. 

And yes, it has to happen from within, I am not saying we are going to send rock stars and pop idols to UAE to start demonstrations and raid the palaces  But that change from within happens a bit more quickly with some nudging from outside. It can be as simple as an openly gay footballler travelling there and competing there, an artist expressing support for Pride rights at a show there, etc. It is about inspiration and support. And not turning out backs to them.

Through such interactions we can help citizens expect and demand reforms. Because through the interfaces they see that it works elsewhere, they see how it could be, they see a future for their country. And because support means something. It means something knowing there are people outside rooting for you, cheering you on, even if that is all we can do.  

[ChrisW]

They come to our country and think they'll do as they please, like start some mini-Iran or spread some fucking disease.  And they talk so many god damn ways!

[jamillos]

1 hour ago, SoulMonster said:

There is clearly a difference between allowing athletes to travel abroad to compete and taking culture to a country.

You said it yourself: "What good has the extensive boycotts of that country done? If we truly want to nudge a country in the right direction we need communication and interaction, not exclusion and boycotts."
Again, the principle is still the same: punishing ordinary citizens for their fascist government’s conduct. Whether it’s Arabia or Russia doesn’t matter; you either agree with it or not, no cherry-picking. 

[allwaystired]

Axl had people beat a pinata of Trump in Mexico onstage......perhaps an onstage act of defiance against the dismal human rights record might be in order here? Maybe a few words in support of tolerance, freedom of speech and gay rights? 

We shall see, but I think the chances are slim. 

[SoulMonster]

53 minutes ago, jamillos said:

You said it yourself: "What good has the extensive boycotts of that country done? If we truly want to nudge a country in the right direction we need communication and interaction, not exclusion and boycotts."
Again, the principle is still the same: punishing ordinary citizens for their fascist government’s conduct. Whether it’s Arabia or Russia doesn’t matter; you either agree with it or not, no cherry-picking. 

I was talking about Iran not Russia. And as far as I know, there are no sports boycotts of Iran.

No, my point was about not excluding countries where we want to see social reforms. Financial sanctions against Russia is something else entirely. 

[TheSlashrose]

2 hours ago, Stay.Of.Execution said:

Why lots of it is true, you can look at Qatar. That country has benefited a lot from football the past ten years and even got a world cup handed to them. But it doesn't really look like it had an effect regarding human rights over there. The money goes to the wrong people and they can do whatever they fuck they want with it. 

Also I don't think that either way, boycotting or not, will have an effect on a country and their culture really. That's something that has to develop from within 

Ok a the teacher could explain this 

[jamillos]

4 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

I was talking about Iran not Russia. And as far as I know, there are no sports boycotts of Iran.

No, my point was about not excluding countries where we want to see social reforms. Financial sanctions against Russia is something else entirely. 

It was initially about the UAE, not Iran or financial sanctions against Russia, plus I was talking about athletes, but that doesn't matter. You can dance around it, but the principle still stands: punishing citizens collectively for their government, yes or no. I think I made my point, over and out.

[Stay.Of.Execution]

5 minutes ago, TheSlashrose said:

Ok a the teacher could explain this 

Try making sense?

[Skamos66]

just uploaded this if anyone has any thoughts on it

[SoulMonster]

13 minutes ago, jamillos said:

It was initially about the UAE, not Iran or financial sanctions against Russia, plus I was talking about athletes, but that doesn't matter. You can dance around it, but the principle still stands: punishing citizens collectively for their government, yes or no. I think I made my point, over and out.

And I am still very much on the fence regarding whether it is right to sanction athletes and making it impossible for them to compete internationally. 

As I said, if you want to nudge a country towards social reform, tourism, business and culture can help. So that speaks in favor of allowing athletes to compete, even those from terrible regimes. And then comes in addition the argument that sports shouldn't be used as a political tool. 

On the other hand, when looking at Russia specifically, this isn't about nudging a country towards social reform, this is about punishing Russia for an imperialistic war. It is simple not the same because the objectives are different. 

[wendirosez]

7 minutes ago, Skamos66 said:

just uploaded this if anyone has any thoughts on it

I like it. It has been well thought out. I appreciate the front cover / thumbnail too. Very Cool @Skamos66

[jamillos]

15 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

And I am still very much on the fence regarding whether it is right to sanction athletes and making it impossible for them to compete internationally. 

As I said, if you want to nudge a country towards social reform, tourism, business and culture can help. So that speaks in favor of allowing athletes to compete, even those from terrible regimes. And then comes in addition the argument that sports shouldn't be used as a political tool. 

On the other hand, when looking at Russia specifically, this isn't about nudging a country towards social reform, this is about punishing Russia for an imperialistic war. It is simple not the same because the objectives are different. 

It's still punishing the citizens for their government. Yes it's simply the same, that's why I used the word principle repeatedly. Well, I guess principles sometimes only apply when convenient in current situation. 

Anyway, gotta go.

[SoulMonster]

38 minutes ago, jamillos said:

It's still punishing the citizens for their government. Yes it's simply the same, that's why I used the word principle repeatedly. Well, I guess principles sometimes only apply when convenient in current situation. 

Anyway, gotta go.

Again, I haven't said I am in favor of boycotting Russian athletes  It seems you really want me to take position, sorry for letting you down. 

[JimiRose]

On 5/28/2023 at 7:43 PM, Mysteron said:

It's actually quite safe there, you'd be surprised. 

Yeah, commit a crime they chop your hand off. You can't even fuck your wife in the ass. Not sure how they'd know...? But either way, if you did, you're going to jail. 

On a serious note, it is very safe there, but it is definitely not a place for anyone who respects women, gays, blacks or any form of true equality. It is very fake and put on. But it's full of oil money and sunshine. And we know GnR love oil money. 

[MaskingApathy]

5 hours ago, ChrisW said:

They come to our country and think they'll do as they please, like start some mini-Iran or spread some fucking disease.  And they talk so many god damn ways!

It's all Greek to me

[ChristmasFnatic]

In RHCP reddit, people are complaining or saying how RHCP didnt play this song or that especially recently. One guy said he attended many RHCP songs but kept missing a song he likes. A lot are saying RHCP is full of surprises that may excite or disappoint you.

This is so opposite of what I read here lol. I just hope GNR will step up this tour. I will be attending 2 concerts and I wont read a single setlist of any concerts before!!! 

[Gordon Comstock]

40 minutes ago, ChristmasFnatic said:

In RHCP reddit, people are complaining or saying how RHCP didnt play this song or that especially recently. One guy said he attended many RHCP songs but kept missing a song he likes. A lot are saying RHCP is full of surprises that may excite or disappoint you.

This is so opposite of what I read here lol. I just hope GNR will step up this tour. I will be attending 2 concerts and I wont read a single setlist of any concerts before!!! 

 

I've been following RHCP setlists for most of the year, and when I saw them in Vancouver it was exciting not knowing what they'd play next (aside from the last few songs). It would be great if GNR rotated at least a few songs every night and trimmed the show down, but we all know the set will be bloated and there might be 2-3 changes from last year, at best.

[IzzysMissy]

8 hours ago, jamillos said:

Again, the principle is still the same: punishing ordinary citizens for their fascist government’s conduct. 

The thing is… Russian athletes openly support Putin and his war on Ukraine.. very openly. These athletes should be banned. Don’t even get me started on Russias establish state-sponsored doping program..

But anyway, as uneasy as I am with them playing in Dubai (having never been to Dubai) many of my LGBTQ+ friends travel there often so who knows what’s right anymore. Between Dubai and Israel they get to include the “Middle East” in their “world tour” shit merch so that’s prob a part of it as well..

 

[Joraz]

im genuinely calling that we'll get a setlist changeup and hopefully PTU and TAY with atleast 1 new song this tour

[jamillos]

2 hours ago, IzzysMissy said:

The thing is… Russian athletes openly support Putin and his war on Ukraine.. very openly. These athletes should be banned. Don’t even get me started on Russias establish state-sponsored doping program..

But anyway, as uneasy as I am with them playing in Dubai (having never been to Dubai) many of my LGBTQ+ friends travel there often so who knows what’s right anymore. Between Dubai and Israel they get to include the “Middle East” in their “world tour” shit merch so that’s prob a part of it as well..

 

Some of them do, definitely not all of them.

Edited May 30, 2023 by jamillos

[SoulMonster]

4 hours ago, IzzysMissy said:

But anyway, as uneasy as I am with them playing in Dubai (having never been to Dubai) many of my LGBTQ+ friends travel there often so who knows what’s right anymore. Between Dubai and Israel they get to include the “Middle East” in their “world tour” shit merch so that’s prob a part of it as well..

There is no problem being a gay tourist in Dubai. Just don't make out with people of your own gender publicly and you are fine. If you are the type who have to flaunt being gay all the time, can't not talk about it to custom officials, police, and eventually the judge, then you have a problem.  

[allwaystired]

2 hours ago, SoulMonster said:

There is no problem being a gay tourist in Dubai. Just don't make out with people of your own gender publicly and you are fine. If you are the type who have to flaunt being gay all the time, can't not talk about it to custom officials, police, and eventually the judge, then you have a problem.  

"Flaunt being gay all the time"- you mean, people just being themselves?

Should people 'tone down' their sexuality? Being 'too gay' is a problem?! 

The judge? People should act straight when being judged to avoid trouble?! 

Bloody hell I thought we'd left these sort of comments behind in the dark ages. 

 

Edited May 30, 2023 by allwaystired