Ritz 91 and Chinese Democracy

[axl666]

So one thing that's been notable about the CD promotion over the years is the lack of videos. This means that when the songs are played live to large audiences it's the most time that most people encounter them.

Most of us over the years have seen this as an irrational way to introduce songs to the public.

However watching Ritz 91 I realised that GNR, even in the classic days, had previously done gigs where they played a large number of songs without any advanced promotion. You could probably go even further back to the Appetite days to also see it happen.

It just made me think that the CD promotion might not have been that much of an anomaly compared to what came before, though it was obviously more extreme in its total lack of engagement with non-concert promotion.

[Nice Boy]

The difference is that AFD and UYI sings soon did have videos released, which became iconic, whereas CD didn’t 

[darkside259]

5 hours ago, Nice Boy said:

The difference is that AFD and UYI sings soon did have videos released, which became iconic, whereas CD didn’t 

the cd era peak in the death of mtv meanwhile the peak of gnr happend in the birth of mtv and live trough the peak of video music era, idk if gnr would do music videos if they didn t have the big influence of mtv and music video industry, now days the thing is YT and gnr is a band reaching the sunset so is very hard to connect, maybe the could pull of a jhonny cash hurt video but that would be a golden thing to do and its no easy.

back in the days of gnr 80s 90s the rock was the  rebeld music and the youth music, now the trap, rap n reggueton with all the genres of electronic music and all kinds of pop is in that slot, maybe the equivalent of gnr nowdays is punk, and some kind of rebirth of rock with Liam galagher but is another world

[reayj2003]

I wish they’d done a video for Hardskool 

[Bitchisback]

The 90s and 2000s were completely different for the music industry man. Things really changed overnight 

[default_]

4 hours ago, Bitchisback said:

The 90s and 2000s were completely different for the music industry man. Things really changed overnight 

Thats right. At the same time, when CD was released the internet was changing to what it is now, youtube was starting to get big and I believe had Axl done the right thing and used the internet at GNRs favor, CDs fate would be different. 

Just imagine if they released a mini doc on youtube about the creation of CD, with Axl and the band talking about the process and why it took so long to release it. Then a music video and all sorts of things. It was a missed opportunity. 

Edited November 21, 2022 by default_

[BucketEgg]

1 hour ago, default_ said:

Thats right. At the same time, when CD was released the internet was changing to what it is now, youtube was starting to get big and I believe had Axl done the right thing and used the internet at GNRs favor, CDs fate would be different. 

Just imagine if they released a mini doc on youtube about the creation of CD, with Axl and the band talking about the process and why it took so long to release it. Then a music video and all sorts of things. It was a missed opportunity. 

a mini doc would have been so cool! i think youtube had a 10 minute limit back then. it would have been fun seeing chunks of 10-minute chinese democracy mini docs.

[Sweersa]

2006-2007 Axl was the last time he looked cool enough to be in an actual music video. 

48 minutes ago, BucketEgg said:

a mini doc would have been so cool! i think youtube had a 10 minute limit back then. it would have been fun seeing chunks of 10-minute chinese democracy mini docs.

People with "director" accounts could post longer videos, if I remember correctly. Regardless, 10 minute webisodes would be pretty cool.

[default_]

19 hours ago, BucketEgg said:

a mini doc would have been so cool! i think youtube had a 10 minute limit back then. it would have been fun seeing chunks of 10-minute chinese democracy mini docs.

Yeah, I believe Metallica did it for Death Magnetic and it build a huge hype and exposure to the album, got fans excited for the release and gathered new fans. But with GNR it is what it is. 

Edited November 22, 2022 by default_

[mystery]

In the late 2000s and even today music videos are still an important promotional tool. Red Hot Chili Peppers have 40 million views for Black Summer from Unlimited Love and 400 million for Dark Necessities from the Getaway. You can't tell me that wouldn't have helped Chinese Democracy from 2008-2010. 

Edited November 22, 2022 by mystery

[Legendador]

On 11/20/2022 at 7:04 AM, axl666 said:

So one thing that's been notable about the CD promotion over the years is the lack of videos. This means that when the songs are played live to large audiences it's the most time that most people encounter them.

Most of us over the years have seen this as an irrational way to introduce songs to the public.

However watching Ritz 91 I realised that GNR, even in the classic days, had previously done gigs where they played a large number of songs without any advanced promotion. You could probably go even further back to the Appetite days to also see it happen.

It just made me think that the CD promotion might not have been that much of an anomaly compared to what came before, though it was obviously more extreme in its total lack of engagement with non-concert promotion.

Don't forget that all Ritz gigs were advertized on the day of the gigs.

[mystery]

I feel like comparing what happened in 1991 to 2008 is kind of apples and oranges. The Ritz was a warmup gig for albums that were supposed to come out earlier than they did. Chinese Democracy was Axl pissed off at the record label and promotion of his album so he did like 3 interviews around the time of its release, went on boards including this one for some Q&As, and then dipped for most of 2009 while the album just died. 

[Legendador]

2 minutes ago, mystery said:

I feel like comparing what happened in 1991 to 2008 is kind of apples and oranges. The Ritz was a warmup gig for albums that were supposed to come out earlier than they did. Chinese Democracy was Axl pissed off at the record label and promotion of his album so he did like 3 interviews around the time of its release, went on boards including this one for some Q&As, and then dipped for most of 2009 while the album just died. 

It almost feels like he wanted the album to die if you think that he went sillent after its release and for a year up to the ONE SINGLE concert in 2009.

We will never know what really happened for him to have such a bad experience with the album and a worst one with its release.

[mikeman5150]

To those saying that CD videos would’ve helped with overall sales, I agree, but I doubt it would’ve helped that much. People would’ve been able to conclude faster and easier that Slash wasn’t there and therefore it sucks. I’m not one of those people, I love CD, but it was unfairly written off by many just because Slash wasn’t there. It was the cool thing to hate on NewGNR. Kinda like it’s been cool to hate on Nickelback since about 2005

[darkside259]

20 minutes ago, mikeman5150 said:

To those saying that CD videos would’ve helped with overall sales, I agree, but I doubt it would’ve helped that much. People would’ve been able to conclude faster and easier that Slash wasn’t there and therefore it sucks. I’m not one of those people, I love CD, but it was unfairly written off by many just because Slash wasn’t there. It was the cool thing to hate on NewGNR. Kinda like it’s been cool to hate on Nickelback since about 2005

the "cool" thing it s not an objetive point, saying that i think that back in the nugnr days the numetal was the "cool" thing and that is subjective too

[Free Bird]

1 hour ago, mikeman5150 said:

To those saying that CD videos would’ve helped with overall sales, I agree, but I doubt it would’ve helped that much. People would’ve been able to conclude faster and easier that Slash wasn’t there and therefore it sucks. I’m not one of those people, I love CD, but it was unfairly written off by many just because Slash wasn’t there. It was the cool thing to hate on NewGNR. Kinda like it’s been cool to hate on Nickelback since about 2005

You guys somehow can't imagine that people don't like CD not because of Slash's absence but because it's a totally different music than what the original band used to record

[Spaghetti4twenty]

honestly, maybe Axl didn’t really care about album sales. He probably would’ve made a different album if that were the case 

 

i respect that 

Edited November 23, 2022 by Spaghetti4twenty

[axlvai]

Who wanted GnR without Slash in the 2000s?? Thats was the problem.

[Frankfurt93]

it is time for CD fans to realize that apart from 5 people smw out there far, far away, nobody gave a flying fuck for CD or any Axl actions post July 17th, 1993.

it changed a bit 2016, but still 50% of HC don't really consider this anything else but a semi tribute band

[darkside259]

15 hours ago, Frankfurt93 said:

it is time for CD fans to realize that apart from 5 people smw out there far, far away, nobody gave a flying fuck for CD or any Axl actions post July 17th, 1993.

it changed a bit 2016, but still 50% of HC don't really consider this anything else but a semi tribute band

oh i didn t know you did the poll! can you share that data with us?

 

[duffgnr86]

There is an official video of Better that never get released but it leaked.. what really happened to that?

[mikeman5150]

On 11/23/2022 at 12:12 AM, Free Bird said:

You guys somehow can't imagine that people don't like CD not because of Slash's absence but because it's a totally different music than what the original band used to record

Absolutely some people don’t like it because it’s different, but you’re kidding yourself if you don’t think that many never even gave it a chance/listened to it because Slash wasn’t there. I think to the general fan base, everything after slash left was the VMA’s freak show and nobody really cared. If they did, they would’ve sold a lot more albums, and a lot more concert tickets. 

[Free Bird]

5 hours ago, mikeman5150 said:

Absolutely some people don’t like it because it’s different, but you’re kidding yourself if you don’t think that many never even gave it a chance/listened to it because Slash wasn’t there. I think to the general fan base, everything after slash left was the VMA’s freak show and nobody really cared. If they did, they would’ve sold a lot more albums, and a lot more concert tickets. 

I don't think so. There's maybe a minority who didn't give it a chance because of Slash.

It's music. If you like it, you like it, if you don't, you don't. Nobody else benefits from that.

When I was young, I was the only one in my surroundings listening to GNR and rock music in general. Everybody else was either into radio pop music or into hip hop. This one dude once said to me that I was only listening to rock music because I wanted to be cool. What a stupid statement. There's nothing worse than listening to music that you don't like.

Why should anybody castrate himself the other way arround. I mean credit where credit's due. There's some bad ass guitar on CD but also music that's simply not for fans of simple hard rock and especially not for people who expected the classic GNR sound.

 

[mystery]

8 hours ago, mikeman5150 said:

Absolutely some people don’t like it because it’s different, but you’re kidding yourself if you don’t think that many never even gave it a chance/listened to it because Slash wasn’t there. I think to the general fan base, everything after slash left was the VMA’s freak show and nobody really cared. If they did, they would’ve sold a lot more albums, and a lot more concert tickets. 

People underestimate how big it was that Slash was no longer part of the band to the general audience. He was also having chart success with Velvet Revolver which included more recognizable Guns N' Roses members than the band itself did at the time. VR was delivering that classic rock sound that people were clamoring for in the mid-2000s while Chinese Democracy was not that. Also and I've talked about this at length, Axl's appearance along with the other members definitely made people go wtf. Axl looked completely different in 2002 than in 1993-94 and was being made fun of endlessly for the braids, his face, weight gain, and the weird hip-hop fashion he adapted in 2002. Guns was just an uncool band until nostalgia kind of kicked in during the early 2010s and was solidified with the 2016 reunion.

[Gunner Gilby]

On 11/23/2022 at 6:12 PM, Free Bird said:

You guys somehow can't imagine that people don't like CD not because of Slash's absence but because it's a totally different music than what the original band used to record

Really? Cos every classic Guns album had a quite different sound to what came before. The acoustic songs on Lies were a departure from Appetite. The Illusion's had a new permanent keys player added. Both ten minute piano and guitar driven epics. Izzy and Duff taking on the occasional lead vocal. Spaghetti was all covers. Every album sounded different to the last. Chinese was no different. Just the next slight evolution in sound.