The "New Album" Thread. Thanks to the long ass thread, I’m going home!

[DK6]

39 minutes ago, rocknroll41 said:

I was thinking again about Mayhue’s claim that the (mythical) next album would be AFD leftovers and, while I still think he misspoke, I’m actually starting to prefer the idea of them working on songs like Aint Goin’ Down, Just Another Sunday, etc. over more ChiDem era stuff. I know that sounds crazy, but I guess I’m just getting nostalgic for that “sound.”

That said, I’ll take anything, at the end of the day. Just exercising the fun little what-if scenario in my head, is all.

Besides, I think when Duff said Axl has “zillions of songs,” he was talking about all the different eras, not just the ChiDem era.

If we’re talking strictly AFD times, what do they have to work with? Aint Goin Down, Just Another Sunday, Crash Diet (they would have to buy the rights back), Too Much Too Soon (kinda corny but can still work), Bring It Back Home (kinda morphed into Slither but can still work)… I can’t really see them doing anything with Sentimental Movie. And songs like Cornshucker and It Tastes Good are obviously out of the question. We also don’t know if Axl ever wrote lyrics to Nightcrawler (despite it morphing into Speed Parade). Canter did say that Axl wanted to use a few Snakepit songs as recently as 2001, though, so make of that what you will.

Ive never heard those Hollywood Rose songs like Rock N Roll Rose, Rock N Roll Survivor, Bloodshot Eyes, etc. So I can’t comment on those.

God I hope not....

Some  of those are appallingly bad - just another sunday, too much too soon, 

Some are boring as batshit - bring it back home, aint goin down.

I actually don't mind crash diet and sentimental movie.

[NelvinHigby]

i’ve never really considered we know everything they’ve ever written, especially early on. Just because it’s not on bootlegs or leaks doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. It’s not hard to imagine that there’s tons of cassettes of ideas or even full songs. These guys had a lotta free time & were very persistent with making music. I doubt Mayhue misspoke, i think he is more likely to know more than us forum junkies. Just a thought. 

[rocknroll41]

Some kinda “Appetite for Destruction 2” coming out of nowhere would be quite something, that’s for sure.

[SoulMonster]

4 hours ago, rocknroll41 said:

Does anyone remember when that screenshot started floating around the internet? Was it before 2019? If so, that proves it’s legit, cause we didn’t know about Perhaps and Nothing yet, as far as I remember.

That's the type of thinking hoaxers like MSL relied upon: That if parts of it is legit, all must be legit.

I believe the list is most likely authentic but it isn't proven just because some of the titles were not known to us back then. 

[rocknroll41]

18 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

That's the type of thinking hoaxers like MSL relied upon: That if parts of it is legit, all must be legit.

I believe the list is most likely authentic but it isn't proven just because some of the titles were not known to us back then. 

Fair enough. But assuming it’s real, if we eliminate all the remixes and covers and little instrumental interludes like Thyme and pointless “sketch” songs like Nothing and songs that Axl doesn’t even sing like Going Down, we’re left with this:

Cuban Skies (assuming it has vocals), The General, Atlas Shrugged, Soul Monster, Absurd, Tonto (assuming it has vocals), Monstrosity (assuming it has vocals), Hard Skool, Perhaps.

Nine songs, and now we’re getting six. The current state of things is starting to make sense to me. I bet that after Perhaps and The General, the last pair of ChiDem songs will be Atlas and Soul Monster. And if I had to guess, State of Grace never got finished and always remained a “sketch,” and Axl probably never got around to doing vocals for Berlin or Zodiac (even if he had lyrics).

Edited July 25, 2023 by rocknroll41

[SoulMonster]

We might have had this discussion before, but my memory is gone: What do we know about the circumstances of the leak of this alleged email list? Who leaked it, when and where? Did it come with additional information about who sent it, and to whom? If the source is MSL's stolen emails, then I believe it is fake.

[jacdaniel]

I would say that list is legit and it checks out with what Slash was saying also. It's likely the current band chose not to rework everything. 

So probably 7 or 8 songs will be released one day and then that's that for the CD era. 

[rocknroll41]

Something else I just remembered is that in 2006 Axl said that twenty-six songs were “nearly done.”

We got fourteen in 2008, so the remaining twelve were probably the nine I listed above plus Nothing, Thyme, and Going Down. Maybe also OMG and one other song like Light My Fire or KOHD Acoustic or 10%er. Gotta account for some wiggle room there, since the final lyrics for Shackler’s and TIL were done super last minute, it seems.

That said, the point still stands that cd2 was never really as big as we thought. I know Baz claims that Axl played him four albums in 2007, but Axl probably just played him updated versions of Rough Mixes 1-4 or something. Tommy did say that ChiDem was originally meant to be much shorter. Maybe the plan at one time was to release three or four small albums, and then that became two long albums, and then only one.

When Tommy later said that there were twenty-two songs left over from ChiDem, he was probably also talking about instrumentals. I know he said Axl worked on vocals every year, but that could mean anything. Axl coulda just patched one or two lines per year, for all we know.

Edited July 25, 2023 by rocknroll41

[SoulMonster]

10 minutes ago, rocknroll41 said:

Something else I just remembered is that in 2006 Axl said that twenty-six songs were “nearly done.”

We got fourteen in 2008, so the remaining twelve were probably the nine I listed above plus Nothing, Thyme, and Going Down. Maybe also OMG and one other song like Light My Fire or the new KOHD. Gotta account for some wiggle room there, since the final lyrics for Shackler’s and TIL were done super last minute, it seems.

That said, the point still stands that cd2 was never really as big as we thought.

The full quote form Axl was: "We're working on 32 songs, and 26 are nearly done". This is well aligned with what he said later in the year when he talked about them working on 2.5 albums of material. And it fits well with Tommy's quote from 2011 that they had 22 unreleased songs that were finished (but possibly without vocals).

[Spoon87]

1 hour ago, NelvinHigby said:

i’ve never really considered we know everything they’ve ever written, especially early on. Just because it’s not on bootlegs or leaks doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. It’s not hard to imagine that there’s tons of cassettes of ideas or even full songs. These guys had a lotta free time & were very persistent with making music. I doubt Mayhue misspoke, i think he is more likely to know more than us forum junkies. Just a thought. 

Absolutely this. I couldn't help but laugh when I saw people convincing themselves mantra like that he, the guy who has been with (part of) the band since the beginning of time, misspoke in what seems to be part of his job. I don't know about you guys, but when I have to speak to people or even a small crowd in my job, I don't make a mistake and I don't mix things up. I am prepared and do the shit.

Of course, I'd also like to hear more of the CD stuff, don't get me wrong, because I also think that for example Shadow of your love gets old rather quick and I usually prefer the more thought out tracks to the quick rockers, but in this case, I really believe there is more stuff to the Appetite era songs than we convinced ourselves to over the years via bootlegs and endless talking. We are not the experts, the guys in and around the band are.

Edited July 25, 2023 by Spoon87

[Tom2112]

13 minutes ago, rocknroll41 said:

Something else I just remembered is that in 2006 Axl said that twenty-six songs were “nearly done.”

We got fourteen in 2008, so the remaining twelve were probably the nine I listed above plus Nothing, Thyme, and Going Down. Maybe also OMG and one other song like Light My Fire or the new KOHD. Gotta account for some wiggle room there, since the final lyrics for Shackler’s and TIL were done super last minute, it seems.

That said, the point still stands that cd2 was never really as big as we thought. I know Baz claims that Axl played him four albums in 2007, but Axl probably just played him updated versions of Rough Mixes 1-4 or something. Tommy did say that ChiDem was originally meant to be much shorter, at one point. Maybe the plan at one time was to release three or four small albums, and then that became two long albums, and then only one.

Tommy more recently said Chinese was to be a double, but it just took so long and certain songs weren't complete so they went with what was finished and what fit. 

Who knows where they were with some of those songs. To me, State of grace is an obvious one that would be finished as he went in and sang over it, Which means he was inspired by it. The instrumental tracks? Who knows what was done in the following 8yrs and who knows what was done after 2008. Hopefully we find out one day. Axl doing an ask me anything would be amazing, just to get answers on all this BS once and for all.

[metalavenger99]

I personally think that if we ever get to hear those songs, it's gonna happen because of a leak, and not because of an official release of EVERY single one of the CD2 songs happening at some point. (We've already heard Perhaps in case they do end up playing it) Or unless we're talking about a posthumous release of course, but that is the most depressing scenario to picture of all.

Then the problem is that the Village leaks were the result of a completely random situation right? Zutaut's locker being auctioned, i doubt that's happening again, but what if something just kind of similar occurs?

So, not only a bunch of material dating back all the way to the late 90's, stored in who knows what format, who knows where in the country, coming from a hoarder or an ex employee of a studio or a related company, would have to surface to the public or suddenly be found without them being aware, BUT EVEN THEN, some intermediary would have to be interested in acquiring it or just picking it up without really knowing what it is, so this time it could end up on anonymous good hands, and then maybe, maybe make it's way onto the internet without drama, intentionally, or unintentionally i guess?

All of this is extremely unlikely and every time i think about it, it depresses the hell out of me!

Maybe the search would have to turn into some of those well known cases when the lost media people gets together to find specific stuff at all costs. But then you know the legal side that comes after and shit. I've remember reading about a search for Chinese Democracy commercials from the early 2000's, but most likely those posts were made by someone already on GNR message boards. 

 

[Uncle Bob]

8 hours ago, Blackstar said:

It was posted a few pages back (has also been posted quite a few times), but here it is

I still have doubts about its authenticity, though.

I have always thought this wasn't meant to be a sequel to Chinese Democracy, but a bonus 2nd disc for a possible re-release. That would explain the random remixes.

It was rumored back then that Axl wanted to put out a re release of the album, I believe.

[Rovim]

2 hours ago, Spoon87 said:

Absolutely this. I couldn't help but laugh when I saw people convincing themselves mantra like that he, the guy who has been with (part of) the band since the beginning of time, misspoke in what seems to be part of his job. I don't know about you guys, but when I have to speak to people or even a small crowd in my job, I don't make a mistake and I don't mix things up. I am prepared and do the shit.

Of course, I'd also like to hear more of the CD stuff, don't get me wrong, because I also think that for example Shadow of your love gets old rather quick and I usually prefer the more thought out tracks to the quick rockers, but in this case, I really believe there is more stuff to the Appetite era songs than we convinced ourselves to over the years via bootlegs and endless talking. We are not the experts, the guys in and around the band are.

when Marc Canter was still posting in his "Canter Banter" section on this forum and a poster asked if anything unreleased material remained from the AFD era, he said that Gn'R used everything they had and there was nothing left unreleased. 

[MaskingApathy]

1 minute ago, Rovim said:

when Marc Canter was still posting in his "Canter Banter" section on this forum and a poster asked if anything unreleased material remained from the AFD era, he said that Gn'R used everything they had and there was nothing left unreleased. 

And I would trust him since he was around during the writing and recording of those songs.

[Uncle Bob]

2 hours ago, Spoon87 said:

Absolutely this. I couldn't help but laugh when I saw people convincing themselves mantra like that he, the guy who has been with (part of) the band since the beginning of time, misspoke in what seems to be part of his job. I don't know about you guys, but when I have to speak to people or even a small crowd in my job, I don't make a mistake and I don't mix things up. I am prepared and do the shit.

Of course, I'd also like to hear more of the CD stuff, don't get me wrong, because I also think that for example Shadow of your love gets old rather quick and I usually prefer the more thought out tracks to the quick rockers, but in this case, I really believe there is more stuff to the Appetite era songs than we convinced ourselves to over the years via bootlegs and endless talking. We are not the experts, the guys in and around the band are.

My boss constantly says wrong stuff on social media regarding what we are working on, because he's the boss but he's not a creative director nor he's designing anything, so he sometimes gets stuff wrong.

I believe the issue is Tom first said the sound was very "AFD alike", then he said these were AFD unreleased songs.

He could possibly meant that the sound was very AFD in regards to aggresivity but got mixed up and next he said these came from AFD instead of CD, because of mentioning AFD first.

I don't believe there is any AFD leftovers since it's common knowledge these were released in UYI

[Stay.Of.Execution]

10 hours ago, AxlRoseCDII said:

Every time I see "HOT" on the thread, I think maybe something is actually happening, and am always wrong.

Most of the time this thread is just fucking boring, especially when it's "hot". People discussing the same shit over and over about some songs nobody has ever heard 

Edited July 25, 2023 by Stay.Of.Execution

[SoulMonster]

I am very certain there is not a lot of material left over from the AFD period, except Arkeen songs. I believe Mayhue meant after CD. 

[Cosmo]

I had not seen the video with the dude filming himself during the soundcheck for Perhaps. They seem to have changed the riff a bit, it really reminds me of Mary Jane's Last Dance by Tom Petty now. Wonder if the piano will be as present, when playing this riff.

[SoulMonster]

I am pretty certain that email list of alleged track list to CD2, from January 2008, comes from MSL's alleged memory stick of stolen emails from Beta. He made this big splash back in 2010, or whenever it was, claiming to have explosive documents about GN'Rs, including Axl's enemy list (which he leaked), the band's plans, unreleased songs and Axl's biography - threatening to release the contents if the band didn't follow through with the market plans they (allegedly) had. These plans included a big re-launch of CD with shows at Superbowl (?), and Creem Magazine had some role in it all, too.

It all fizzled out. It was never verified that MSL spoke the truth and that he actually sat on stolen emails containing confidential information about the inner workings of the band. Nor what is ever proven that he was lying. Some stuff was leaked though, like Axl's enemy list, that email with song tracklist for CD2, and better_gone remix.

But the thing with MSL, as he was happy to brag about, was that he liked to bluff that he had more than he had to fool hoarders into giving up their stuff in return for what he claimed to have, then armed with this additional music he could then do an even bigger bluff, gradually obtaining more and more unreleased music by fooling more and more people who would believe he sat on more from just hearing a little. For instance, if he had one unreleased song he would send hoarders a snippet of this and claim he had much more, fooling them to think he sat on more than just that one song and giving up what they had in return for it all, which gave MSL more songs allowing him to fool even more hoarders. 

I believe the "cache of emails" is just a variation of this scam. He had contacts and probably knew a bit about the inner workings of the band, including song titles to unreleased songs, and somehow he also had the better-gone remix, and used this to create a semi-plausible list of emails which he hoped to trade for unreleased material. Hoping that the little he had that was genuine would fool people into thinking it was all real, and something people would be willing to trade lots of songs for. The whole threat to release the material if GN'R didn't follow through on "the plans" was just a ruse to get attention so people would contact him for trades. He knew the band wouldn't care because it was just humbug and obviously made-up content. It is rumoured he got more remixes as a result of this (the TIL with different vocals, blood in the water, etc) - so maybe it worked after all.

Anyway, this is my theory based on MSL's modus operandi. He eventually gave up and found some interest elsewhere.

And the tracklist came from this cache of emails. Could it be real? Yes, maybe that was a genuine nugget of real info he possessed, although I doubt it. Could it all be real? Yes, but I highly doubt it. Could it contain some real information, like the names of songs worked on (which he might have heard from insiders or hoarders) - yes, absolutely.

 

Edited July 25, 2023 by SoulMonster

[colonizedmind]

2 hours ago, Uncle Bob said:

I have always thought this wasn't meant to be a sequel to Chinese Democracy, but a bonus 2nd disc for a possible re-release. That would explain the random remixes.

It was rumored back then that Axl wanted to put out a re release of the album, I believe.

Maybe he'll try this again, with Slash and Duff re-recording the whole of CD along with a couple of bonus new tracks like HS and Absurd 😉. I always wondered if they actually went and recorded studio versions of the CD tracks they play live, kinda likely....even if just to hear how they sound before touring in 2016...touring demos are often made....I mean Better got that whole new "Lose Yourself" style opening, so I certainly think that was reworked in the studio....so there's probably instrumental versions of at least 9 CD tracks of D and S! 

The CD era is FAR from over....it'll never be over, until about 30 years from now and you know why...

[Seb91]

If the leaked tracklist is real then it would explain a fair amount. Seems there wasn't/isn't enough for a full follow up but enough for a re-release/bonus edition. It also explains the way the songs are being released at the moment. However, given Axl sat on an album's worth of material for years prior to 2008 and nothing this band does makes sense then who knows? For me, the million dollar question is really how many of the instrumentals got vocals. To me, Oklahoma and Me and My Elvis are the strongest of the leftovers, so hope they did get vocals at some point!

[colonizedmind]

I wonder why that Collider Slash interview is embargoed...what's it to coincide with? His new movie...

[Cosmo]

There is absolutely no commercial appeal for a Chinese Democracy re-release with bonus tracks in more than 15 years after it's original release. Even as an anniversary edition. It's not seen as a cherished/classic for a deluxe edition re-release. That would be a complete waste of money, energy and tracks that would be better marketed off as new material.

[AxlRoseCDII]

1 hour ago, SoulMonster said:

I am pretty certain that email list of alleged track list to CD2, from January 2008, comes from MSL's alleged memory stick of stolen emails from Beta. He made this big splash back in 2010, or whenever it was, claiming to have explosive documents about GN'Rs, including Axl's enemy list (which he leaked), the band's plans, unreleased songs and Axl's biography - threatening to release the contents if the band didn't follow through with the market plans they (allegedly) had. These plans included a big re-launch of CD with shows at Superbowl (?), and Creem Magazine had some role in it all, too.

It all fizzled out. It was never verified that MSL spoke the truth and that he actually sat on stolen emails containing confidential information about the inner workings of the band. Nor what is ever proven that he was lying. Some stuff was leaked though, like Axl's enemy list, that email with song tracklist for CD2, and better_gone remix.

But the thing with MSL, as he was happy to brag about, was that he liked to bluff that he had more than he had to fool hoarders into giving up their stuff in return for what he claimed to have, then armed with this additional music he could then do an even bigger bluff, gradually obtaining more and more unreleased music by fooling more and more people who would believe he sat on more from just hearing a little. For instance, if he had one unreleased song he would send hoarders a snippet of this and claim he had much more, fooling them to think he sat on more than just that one song and giving up what they had in return for it all, which gave MSL more songs allowing him to fool even more hoarders. 

I believe the "cache of emails" is just a variation of this scam. He had contacts and probably knew a bit about the inner workings of the band, including song titles to unreleased songs, and somehow he also had the better-gone remix, and used this to create a semi-plausible list of emails which he hoped to trade for unreleased material. Hoping that the little he had that was genuine would fool people into thinking it was all real, and something people would be willing to trade lots of songs for. The whole threat to release the material if GN'R didn't follow through on "the plans" was just a ruse to get attention so people would contact him for trades. He knew the band wouldn't care because it was just humbug and obviously made-up content. It is rumoured he got more remixes as a result of this (the TIL with different vocals, blood in the water, etc) - so maybe it worked after all.

Anyway, this is my theory based on MSL's modus operandi. He eventually gave up and found some interest elsewhere.

And the tracklist came from this cache of emails. Could it be real? Yes, maybe that was a genuine nugget of real info he possessed, although I doubt it. Could it all be real? Yes, but I highly doubt it. Could it contain some real information, like the names of songs worked on (which he might have heard from insiders or hoarders) - yes, absolutely.

 

Logically speaking, it would at least have to be somewhat real (the memory theory for instance) if he said the names of songs like Perhaps right? Or is there an explanation for that otherwise?