The "New Album" Thread. Thanks to the long ass thread, I’m going home!

[Nick85]

Man, being a fan of GNR is fucking exhausting. Just release something already.

[metalavenger99]

If they don't debut Perhaps by the third date of the American tour, then would you guys start to worry? 

Seriously when is it the right time to start worrying? 

[Stay.Of.Execution]

Just now, metalavenger99 said:

Seriously when is it the right time to start worrying? 

After the last show in Vancouver 

[Martin Riggs]

2 hours ago, bmus1 said:

 

Dead lmfao

Between this and the “You guys have wife’s?” post just before it was quite the way to wake up. 😂 

[SoulMonster]

57 minutes ago, bumbleslash69 said:

It's really hard to say if there are more songs with vocals. At one point around 2006 we were told a few of the 2001-02 duds (Riad, Silkworms) wouldn't be on Chinese Democracy. I want to say we were also told CITR wouldn't be on it. Yet, they were on it or released way down the road. Before the Village leak the only other song we had vocals on that was in general circulation was Checkmate, and that was there too and eventually released. That really does lend itself to the theory that we got all there was. There was a Tommy Stinson quote saying there were 22 songs written and recorded during CD. If 14 were on the album and the other eight are comprised of Absurd, Perhaps, Hard Skool, the General, Atlas, State of Grace, OMG, and Going Down. Then that's 22. Maybe the General is State of Grace and OMG doesn't count, maybe a few of the scratch track songs with vocals were completed. Still gets right around 22. Slash has also implied there weren't that many leftover songs when talking about recording new parts for them.

However, on a more optimistic note some of the songs had vocals added down the line after the Village demos. Better and Shackler's come to mind. Axl gave numbers in the low 30s when talking about "finished" songs. Tommy Stinson and all his Replacements glory is pretty far from what I'd call a reliable narrator when it comes to recollecting on the past. He's fun, but hard to take too seriously. Perhaps there are more songs out there. I liked to believe there are a few more collections of demos like the Village sessions. For instance, in 2006 a few of the songs had been reworked - Chinese Democracy and TWAT. You'd think there'd be more sessions to account for that in some degree. There are also different vocals on the This I Love remix that aren't on the album if I'm remembering right.

As far as Axl's production though. A GnR forum probably isn't the right place to say it, but he's just not a prolific or great song writer. Outside of the early days of Guns in the mid-late 80s, there isn't a lot of documented evidence of him producing a ton of lyrics on his own. From what I gather, he's much more a band leader type of frontman who enjoys the process of overseeing recordings. 

Imo after 20 some odd years of trying to piece this together. There probably are another 15-20 songs, counting what we've heard, that weren't released on Chinese Democracy. I don't think there is a vault of finished songs. I think there is a vault of Eye on Yous and Quick Songs and Buckethead solos. 

Hmm, some comments/questions:

1. I can't remember anyone saying in 2006 that Rhiad, Catcher and Silkworms would not be on the record. What's the source for this?

2. I don't agree that Tommy is unreliable, and he said they had 22 songs in addition to the 14 songs on CD. But not all with vocals.

3. I can't remember Slash ever having said there weren't many leftover songs. What's the source for this?

4. I also can't remember Axl stating that they had more than 30 "finished" songs. He talked about having material for 2.5 records with two of them being practically done.

5. And I don't think anyone here would disagree with Axl not being a proficient artist 

But anyway, I think you got some of your facts wrong and this might play into how you conclude. Still, I kind of conclude the same as you, that there are about one record completely finished and then a vault of instrumentals, riffs, beats, samples, solos, guitar tracks, vocal outtakes and demos, etc.

35 minutes ago, metalavenger99 said:

Seriously when is it the right time to start worrying? 

That's not the right question to ask. The right question is, "Should I expect anything"? The answer then is "No!" and your question becomes moot.

[SlashisGOD]

Lovely being a GnR fan.

[rumandraisin]

1 hour ago, bumbleslash69 said:

It's really hard to say if there are more songs with vocals. At one point around 2006 we were told a few of the 2001-02 duds (Riad, Silkworms) wouldn't be on Chinese Democracy. I want to say we were also told CITR wouldn't be on it. Yet, they were on it or released way down the road. Before the Village leak the only other song we had vocals on that was in general circulation was Checkmate, and that was there too and eventually released. That really does lend itself to the theory that we got all there was. There was a Tommy Stinson quote saying there were 22 songs written and recorded during CD. If 14 were on the album and the other eight are comprised of Absurd, Perhaps, Hard Skool, the General, Atlas, State of Grace, OMG, and Going Down. Then that's 22. Maybe the General is State of Grace and OMG doesn't count, maybe a few of the scratch track songs with vocals were completed. Still gets right around 22. Slash has also implied there weren't that many leftover songs when talking about recording new parts for them.

However, on a more optimistic note some of the songs had vocals added down the line after the Village demos. Better and Shackler's come to mind. Axl gave numbers in the low 30s when talking about "finished" songs. Tommy Stinson and all his Replacements glory is pretty far from what I'd call a reliable narrator when it comes to recollecting on the past. He's fun, but hard to take too seriously. Perhaps there are more songs out there. I liked to believe there are a few more collections of demos like the Village sessions. For instance, in 2006 a few of the songs had been reworked - Chinese Democracy and TWAT. You'd think there'd be more sessions to account for that in some degree. There are also different vocals on the This I Love remix that aren't on the album if I'm remembering right.

As far as Axl's production though. A GnR forum probably isn't the right place to say it, but he's just not a prolific or great song writer. Outside of the early days of Guns in the mid-late 80s, there isn't a lot of documented evidence of him producing a ton of lyrics on his own. From what I gather, he's much more a band leader type of frontman who enjoys the process of overseeing recordings. 

Imo after 20 some odd years of trying to piece this together. There probably are another 15-20 songs, counting what we've heard, that weren't released on Chinese Democracy. I don't think there is a vault of finished songs. I think there is a vault of Eye on Yous and Quick Songs and Buckethead solos. 

I'm fairly sure there's very little left vocally. Atlas, General, OMG, Perhaps, Soul Monster. Maybe one or two others. Probably endless instrumentals though. Go with your gut instinct, do you really believe stuff like Zodiac, Quick Song and Seven are these finished tracks with vocals left lying about ready for release?

[rocknroll41]

28 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

Hmm, some comments/questions:

1. I can't remember anyone saying in 2006 that Rhiad, Catcher and Silkworms would not be on the record. What's the source for this?

2. I don't agree that Tommy is unreliable, and he said they had 22 songs in addition to the 14 songs on CD. But not all with vocals.

3. I can't remember Slash ever having said there weren't many leftover songs. What's the source for this?

4. I also can't remember Axl stating that they had more than 30 "finished" songs. He talked about having material for 2.5 records with two of them being practically done.

5. And I don't think anyone here would disagree with Axl not being a proficient artist 

But anyway, I think you got some of your facts wrong and this might play into how you conclude. Still, I kind of conclude the same as you, that there are about one record completely finished and then a vault of instrumentals, riffs, beats, samples, solos, guitar tracks, vocal outtakes and demos, etc.

That's not the right question to ask. The right question is, "Should I expect anything"? The answer then is "No!" and your question becomes moot.

Dizzy said on the band’s old website in 2006 that Silkworms and Riad wouldn’t be on the album anymore. I clearly remember that. Idk where the Catcher thing comes from. Maybe cause it wasn’t part of the MSL or Skwerl leaks?

Axl told rolling stone mag in 2006 that they were working on 32 songs and that 26 of them were almost done, but only 13 would be on the final album: https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/axl-rose-breaks-his-silence-on-chinese-democracy-111138/

My guess is that the 13 in question are the ones we got except one other song in place of TIL and Shackler’s (cause those didn’t have updated lyrics yet). Bumble confirmed that Atlas was gonna be on the album and got scratched at the last minute, so it’s probably that one.

Edited July 26, 2023 by rocknroll41

[rumandraisin]

5 hours ago, Voodoochild said:

I think the guitar arrangement - which pretty much is the majority of the instrumental piece in GNR - could get credit. The solos should be considered songwriting too, but I don't think it is the case.

Don't know what Fortus was about, but I think he considered the guitar arrangement in Better when he said he wrote that part. The original 3-Dollar Pyramid demo was almost the same, just with a different approach in the chorus. The first 2006 leak already had the chorus. And keep in mind that, from CD's booklet, Paul Tobias played on the song, although we don't know if he was still recording when Richard joined the band in 2001/02 (I think there's also some confusion about when he actually joined the band). 

I love the song, for me it was the best one from the Village. 

But why should we care if people will like it or not? I don't think people will, regardless. Even The General. 

Parts of 3 Dollar were used in Better from the sound of it. The same with Sorry, bits sound identical albeit possibly reamped. So I'm guessing some rhythm parts of Paul's from 3 Dollar ended up in Better. 

Paul probably had a crossover period with 4tus anyway. He stopped touring but stayed in the studio. 

Edited July 26, 2023 by rumandraisin

[El Guapo]

WHY CAN'T THEY JUST WRITE NEW STUFF FOR FUCKS SAKE?? I cAnT TAKE tHiS AnYMoRE!!

[gavgnr]

They love that us pain in the arse die hards are literally crying out for new music, whilst they coin it in from the casuals paying top dollar for gig tix.

It’s a control thing.

[AxlRoseCDII]

There’s nothing to “worry” about, it sucks but as GNR fans we just have to move on. Clearly they don’t really care about us or releasing music. Our lives will probably just be better if we focus on artists who release music and actually care about their fans.

[rumandraisin]

11 minutes ago, gavgnr said:

They love that us pain in the arse die hards are literally crying out for new music, whilst they coin it in from the casuals paying top dollar for gig tix.

It’s a control thing.

Are they (Axl) even aware of us though?

This is what it boils down to. There is no reason to release music. From the band's point of view they sell tickets and endlessly tour the world. No one is asking for music to be released apart from the remaining hardcore fans here. 

[Voodoochild]

47 minutes ago, rumandraisin said:

I'm fairly sure there's very little left vocally. Atlas, General, OMG, Perhaps, Soul Monster. Maybe one or two others. Probably endless instrumentals though. Go with your gut instinct, do you really believe stuff like Zodiac, Quick Song and Seven are these finished tracks with vocals left lying about ready for release?

Yeah, I do. And I also believe there’s more than those songs. 

28 minutes ago, rumandraisin said:

Parts of 3 Dollar were used in Better from the sound of it. The same with Sorry, bits sound identical albeit possibly reamped. So I'm guessing some rhythm parts of Paul's from 3 Dollar ended up in Better. 

Paul probably had a crossover period with 4tus anyway. He stopped touring but stayed in the studio. 

I don’t think 3 dollar has anyone but Robin. It’s clearly his demo, much like there’s Bucket-only demos and those two Tommy’s demos. 

[bumbleslash69]

1 hour ago, SoulMonster said:

But anyway, I think you got some of your facts wrong and this might play into how you conclude. Still, I kind of conclude the same as you, that there are about one record completely finished and then a vault of instrumentals, riffs, beats, samples, solos, guitar tracks, vocal outtakes and demos, etc.

1 hour ago, metalavenger99 said:

There are definitely some cobwebs in my brain thinking that far back for most of that word spew lol. Thank you for reading through it. Rocknroll 41 did the homework for me. I appreciate that. The only two things I'll add are I thought they tried to discredit the CITR leak or claim it wasn't GnR? Very foggy memories on that one. And the Slash bit was how i inferred his interview about re-working a few older songs during the lockdown with Duff. There is an Eddie Trunk interview with him on that one.

Nonetheless, I wish there were enough breadcrumbs to suggest there actually is more than another album's length of finished songs in the vault. Despite the circus of that whole mess, it's a shame we didn't get to hear more from that blend of musicians. They definitely had it in them to make more songs like TWAT and Better. 

[DannyVinyard]

4 minutes ago, gavgnr said:

They love that us pain in the arse die hards are literally crying out for new music, whilst they coin it in from the casuals paying top dollar for gig tix.

It’s a control thing.

It's crazy that the casuals are still supporting this cash grab tour after 7 years. I wouldn't pay $5 to go t

 

14 minutes ago, AxlRoseCDII said:

There’s nothing to “worry” about, it sucks but as GNR fans we just have to move on. Clearly they don’t really care about us or releasing music. Our lives will probably just be better if we focus on artists who release music and actually care about their fans.

What sucks is I can't stand new music. I hate rap and hip hop. Every new artist is terrible and I will never, never bow down to the new garbage music that is polluting the air waves. I still listen to older rock music, mainly Guns N' Roses. My only hope for new music to listen to is Axl Rose. He has been a huge disappointment over the past 20 years. When he quit on the band in 2002, it was like a dagger through my heart. Him reuniting with the old band in 2016 is the worst because that put the kibosh on any new GNR music and  it's just an endless cash grab tour, which I will have no part in. I would not pay $5 to see any of these cash grab shows. Not a chance in hell, Axl.

[colonizedmind]

What if The General is completed BUT it's just an instrumental song...?

Edited July 26, 2023 by colonizedmind

[Jw224]

5 minutes ago, colonizedmind said:

What if The General is completed BUT it's just an instrumental song...?

We know from the leaked audio it has pretty aggressive screaming vocals.

[CaioAKR]

Guys, I know the skepticism is rooted in years of disappointment, but there ARE vocals on The General. lol At the end of the cellphone leak, that's 100% Axl screaming and it sounds awesome to me. Believe what you will, but if you listen closely to The General leaks, there's no way these aren't vocals.

Also, Sorry, Better and Shackler's had no vocals in the Village Sessions and This I Love and Scraped were nowhere to be found. It's pretty clear Axl recorded vocals after that.

Edited July 26, 2023 by CaioAKR

[rumandraisin]

10 minutes ago, colonizedmind said:

What if The General is completed BUT it's just an instrumental song...?

We know that one at least has vocals. 

[colonizedmind]

4 minutes ago, Jw224 said:

We know from the leaked audio it has pretty aggressive screaming vocals.

Do we? I thought folks were disputing if we can hear any vocals...really...

[DannyVinyard]

1 minute ago, CaioAKR said:

Guys, I know the skepticism is rooted in years of disappointment, but there ARE vocals on The General. lol At the end of the cellphone leak, that's 100% Axl screaming and it sounds awesome to me. Believe what you will, but if you listen closely to The General leaks, there's no way these aren't vocals.

I just wish we could get that full original recording, with the NU GNR members, instead of Slash and Duff, which is what we'll probably end up getting, if anything.

[UYI4]

13 minutes ago, rumandraisin said:

Are they (Axl) even aware of us though?

This is what it boils down to. There is no reason to release music. From the band's point of view they sell tickets and endlessly tour the world. No one is asking for music to be released apart from the remaining hardcore fans here. 

My guess is yes.  There’s some sort of buttsniffing going on in forums and on social media.  This is proven by interviews being removed amongst other things.  
 

also, why I think that they got the leaked CDs back and slash and Duff heard them and then they decided to redo some of those songs because their recording was after the leaks happened.  There’s no irony.  Also if the general is released I 100% believe they pay attention.  Otherwise why not one of the other 20+ songs on the discs.  
 

I question axl vocals being finished on much more, because apparently he kept getting pissed about recording vocals when people would ask him years ago.  I think band members meant “instrumentally songs are done.  We are just waiting on axl.”  But they weren’t allowed to say that.  Wasn’t it axl who went years without singing?  Listen to vocal coaches.  They critique him saying poor technique and lack of singing.  That alone says a lot.  Shouldn’t be so hard for what was the biggest band in the world to release an album.  A 5 song EP.  Video.  Etc…

bottom line someone doesn’t seem to have the balls too IMO.  Or there are other plans.  Hell, I just read an interview in Rolling Stone with Melissa where Caram asked her what she was doing for the next few years back in 2016 because they needed a keyboard player.  This goes to show they planned on doing a big tour for a while.  Not just a few like we are led to believe.  Pittman was right.  Nostalgia act.  It’s become what he described as oldies band playing 30 year old songs over and over.

it probably does and did suck to some extent being an integral part of relaunching the biggest band of all time back in the 90’s writing all of that music and then being stuck playing someone else’s shit for 20 years.  
 

they could have played Jungle, paradise, sweet child, November rain, live and let die, estranged, civil war, YCBM, patience and then done the rest new songs with new band.  But they didn’t.  They started to post CD release, but it took it being forced released.  I think Axl missed the old band once things got going.  At the end of the day I’m not one way or the other but the Chinese years and up to 2016 should have been a solo record.  Not a GNR album.  This is telling by re-recording appetite.  That’s an element of control and ego that’s just unhealthy and ridiculous.  I think if we don’t hear at least 2 new songs by years end (preferably more) then I’ll stop paying attention to this band after this many years.  It’s a big joke.  If I don’t pay attention it won’t matter.  But more and more people won’t care.  They’re becoming less popular at this point.  Most young people want nothing to do with a 40 year old band and eventually it’ll just be a historic thing like the Beatles or Elvis and be looked at as a band that was ruined by bullshit.  Similar to beach boys. 

 

[Jw224]

Just now, colonizedmind said:

Do we? 

Yep. It's pretty easily audible. I don't know why people are debating lol.

[colonizedmind]

5 minutes ago, CaioAKR said:

Guys, I know the skepticism is rooted in years of disappointment, but there ARE vocals on The General. lol At the end of the cellphone leak, that's 100% Axl screaming and it sounds awesome to me. Believe what you will, but if you listen closely to The General leaks, there's no way these aren't vocals.

Also, Sorry, Better and Shackler's had no vocals in the Village Sessions and This I Love and Scraped were nowhere to be found. It's pretty clear Axl recorded vocals after that.

...And Brain said on that YT podcast that Axl recorded vocals for The General...so I guess so. All that effort and no will to put them out, perhaps the older mellower Axl is far away from the feelings of these songs...after all, he was pretty angry around the writing of all this...