Chinese @ 15. Your memories/thoughts - Then and now. Anything Goes.

[Sausagebrain]

Fred Durst called CD a 'piece of shit'.

That means  it's brilliant in my eyes! 

 

[BangoSkank]

20 hours ago, Gordon Comstock said:

 

My ideal CD and CD2 would've looked something like this:

CD1: New GNR (2006)

Chinese Democracy
Better
The Blues
If The World
There Was A Time
Rhiad
Perhaps
Madagascar
Hardschool
I.R.S.
Prostitute

CD2: Dark/Heavy GNR (2007)

Sorry
Shackler's Revenge
Scraped (Lies They Tell)
Catcher In The Rye
State Of Grace
Going Down
This I Love
Absurd
The General
Soul Monster

I could roll with this too. 

Something else I think about is if this were billed as a solo project not only would we have more albums (most likely) but we might even have a band that still tours between GNR legs, playing these songs. 

A lot of the music from this era still just fills me with a sense of "what might have been".

[colonizedmind]

My viewing / listening for today 

Anyone else been going through their download archives/physical Chinese era material? 

[bangit]

Listened to the album in full today, it really is a great record. Only 1 or 2 weak songs in my view. If the world and Riad. Utter shite Riad. If the world is ok but very average. 

The guitar work is incredibly good. Axl's vocal is amazing and every song is unique. It feels like a project as opposed to a collection of songs that flow in anyway. 

Sorry is better than I remembered. IRS is a beast. Even Shaklers was enjoyable. So many layers, great riffs, outrageous vocals etc. What's not to like. Feel sorry for old school fans and others that don't give it a chance. 

It is obviously different to UYI etc but it is a brilliant record in my view. 

Really enjoyed listening to it to be honest. Haven't heard it as an album in full for a long time. 

[colonizedmind]

42 minutes ago, bangit said:

Listened to the album in full today, it really is a great record. Only 1 or 2 weak songs in my view. If the world and Riad. Utter shite Riad. If the world is ok but very average. 

The guitar work is incredibly good. Axl's vocal is amazing and every song is unique. It feels like a project as opposed to a collection of songs that flow in anyway. 

Sorry is better than I remembered. IRS is a beast. Even Shaklers was enjoyable. So many layers, great riffs, outrageous vocals etc. What's not to like. Feel sorry for old school fans and others that don't give it a chance. 

It is obviously different to UYI etc but it is a brilliant record in my view. 

Really enjoyed listening to it to be honest. Haven't heard it as an album in full for a long time. 

For all the reasons that they bring it down, the layers, the crazy ideas, the endless cast of characters involved ALSO make this the last of the truly mad, excessive, ambitious and diversively realised rock and roll albums...never will that kinda money and that kinda gestation be spent on a RnR record again...

For that, it's a bookend to an era...it means a lot of things and one thing it won't be remembered for being is...boring. that's for sure.

Edited November 26, 2023 by colonizedmind

[colonizedmind]

On 11/24/2023 at 5:05 PM, janrichmond said:

I don't like vocals and I don't like how 'busy' it sounds. I didn't buy it when it came out because I didn't know about it, I only heard it when I joined the forum in 2015. I didn't follow the band after Slash left so I have no memories of NuGuns. I watched the VMA performance when that was shown on TV, it made me sad

Do you like Sorry? It's probably the least busy of th tracks. Like Axl doing his version of Pink Floyd with a twist 😝

On 11/24/2023 at 3:16 AM, -W.A.R- said:

It don't really matter. Guess I'll keep it to myself.

Oooo mysterious! It would be more fun If you leaked like the GNR MP3 database though 😉😏

[bangit]

8 minutes ago, colonizedmind said:

For all the reasons that they bring it down, the layers, the crazy ideas, the endless cast of characters involved ALSO make this the last of the truly mad, excessive, ambitious and diversively realised rock and roll albums...never will that kinda money and that kinda gestation be spent on a RnR record again...

For that, it's a bookend to an era...it means a lot of things and one thing it won't be remembered for being is...boring. that's for sure.

I was listening and thinking what song is next .. oh yeah, Madagascar. Fucking brilliant.  I never liked Riad. If the World is ok but a bit weird. 

Scraped has always been interesting, I like it but can understand if others don't. 

Really hope that we get all the Chinese leftovers eventually! Given how different the tracks are, it must have been a nightmare deciding on the order and what eventually made the final album. Clearly there are a lot of other tracks that are all different which didn't make it. Where would The General have gone on that album? 

[colonizedmind]

Just now, bangit said:

I was listening and thinking what song is next .. oh yeah, Madagascar. Fucking brilliant.  I never liked Riad. If the World is ok but a bit weird. 

Scraped has always been interesting, I like it but can understand if others don't. 

Really hope that we get all the Chinese leftovers eventually! Given how different the tracks are, it must have been a nightmare deciding on the order and what eventually made the final album. Clearly there are a lot of other tracks that are all different which didn't make it. Where would The General have gone on that album? 

Ya...about 32 in a near finished form if we take Axl by his word. That means there's another 12 or so vocal lead tracks to drop...I hope they'll be some song titles we don't know and are completely guarded in W.A.R's vault...don't see why not, we've been surprised before..

I've got "Sorry" on right now as I write this....nothing he's ever done before was like this...it's like a hardcore version of Pink Floyd...we still never quite know who he's talking about...he said it wasn't Slasher...be kinda surreal with him playing it semi regularly 😸

The Bucket solo is amazing....more subdued but says more! 

[janrichmond]

20 minutes ago, colonizedmind said:

Do you like Sorry? It's probably the least busy of th tracks. Like Axl doing his version of Pink Floyd with a twist 😝

No. It's just more self pity

I like The Blues 

[colonizedmind]

4 minutes ago, janrichmond said:

No. It's just more self pity

I like The Blues 

It's Axls Elton number in his own stylings 👍

4 minutes ago, janrichmond said:

No. It's just more self pity

I like The Blues 

Most music is a transference of emotion, often in rock, the sharing of the blues...but I get ya

 

[colonizedmind]

24 minutes ago, bangit said:

I was listening and thinking what song is next .. oh yeah, Madagascar. Fucking brilliant.  I never liked Riad. If the World is ok but a bit weird. 

Scraped has always been interesting, I like it but can understand if others don't. 

Really hope that we get all the Chinese leftovers eventually! Given how different the tracks are, it must have been a nightmare deciding on the order and what eventually made the final album. Clearly there are a lot of other tracks that are all different which didn't make it. Where would The General have gone on that album? 

If Chinese ever gets a deluxe remastered release someday down the street of dreams, it would be really awesome if someone capable did a proper ATMOS mix of the record....it really could open up all those layers and be a revelatory experience...I was just thinking about that as "Prosititute" ends and closes my play-through for today....

[colonizedmind]

23 hours ago, Sausagebrain said:

Fred Durst called CD a 'piece of shit'.

That means  it's brilliant in my eyes! 

 

Fuck him...he was just jealous as he had his "own" ChiDem on his hands with Gold Cobra or whatever that shit was called...

[Gaanzer]

1 hour ago, janrichmond said:

No. It's just more self pity

I like The Blues 

Musically, Sorry is a very solid track, lyrically .., well. But that's how I feel about quite a few CD era tracks, which is my right as a subjective pos. 😉

[colonizedmind]

1 hour ago, Gaanzer said:

Musically, Sorry is a very solid track, lyrically .., well. But that's how I feel about quite a few CD era tracks, which is my right as a subjective pos. 😉

It's interesting...it's the track that seem to give CD critical journos a surprise when it came to the tour in 09/10 with many reviews highlighting it as a high point in the set and of the album when listening again...

It was darn good live in 2010, to be fair! Would of loved a version with Sebastian doing some backing on it...he was there on many of those moments in 2010, so wonder if the idea got knocked about...

[Sosso]

On 11/25/2023 at 8:20 PM, Gordon Comstock said:

 

My ideal CD and CD2 would've looked something like this:

CD1: New GNR (2006)

Chinese Democracy
Better
The Blues
If The World
There Was A Time
Rhiad
Perhaps
Madagascar
Hardschool
I.R.S.
Prostitute

CD2: Dark/Heavy GNR (2007)

Sorry
Shackler's Revenge
Scraped (Lies They Tell)
Catcher In The Rye
State Of Grace
Going Down
This I Love
Absurd
The General
Soul Monster

Great tracklist for CDII but Sorry would be such a bad choice as the opening track. The General or Absurd would be better.

[Gordon Comstock]

17 minutes ago, Sosso said:

Great tracklist for CDII but Sorry would be such a bad choice as the opening track. The General or Absurd would be better.

 

It's a weird opener but I listened to that playlist earlier and it kinda works, it sets the right tone. A slow burner with a heavy outro, leading into one of their heavier songs.

Scraped with the drum intro would probably be the most traditional opener...

[El Guapo]

10 hours ago, Gaanzer said:

Musically, Sorry is a very solid track, lyrically .., well. But that's how I feel about quite a few CD era tracks, which is my right as a subjective pos. 😉

Yeah, musically it's kinda cool, Bucket is so good on this one.

The lyrics really ruin it for me, unfortunately. Just too much  cringe to ignore. XD

[GivenToFly]

On 11/23/2023 at 1:21 PM, colonizedmind said:

Does the record hold up? Or would you have preferred the '99 version, 2000 intensions or whatever else...

I recently listened again to the first disc of those Rough Mixes leaks, the one that's meant to be the version of the album that was presented to the label and got rejected. If that is indeed what it is, I find that so frustrating! It's a perfectly good album, even without proper mixing. While I do think the final version released in 2008 is better, it's certainly not so much better as to justify the whole mess that the history of GNR became as a result of that rejection. Although who knows, maybe Axl would have found a way to fuck things up anyway...

[BillConnor_1982]

1 album in 30 years….

[rumandraisin]

14 hours ago, GivenToFly said:

I recently listened again to the first disc of those Rough Mixes leaks, the one that's meant to be the version of the album that was presented to the label and got rejected. If that is indeed what it is, I find that so frustrating! It's a perfectly good album, even without proper mixing. While I do think the final version released in 2008 is better, it's certainly not so much better as to justify the whole mess that the history of GNR became as a result of that rejection. Although who knows, maybe Axl would have found a way to fuck things up anyway...

It wasn't presented to the label and it wasn't the intended tracklist. It's just one of the rough mix discs of songs they were working on at that point. 

[rumandraisin]

On 11/26/2023 at 7:31 PM, bangit said:

Listened to the album in full today, it really is a great record. Only 1 or 2 weak songs in my view. If the world and Riad. Utter shite Riad. If the world is ok but very average. 

The guitar work is incredibly good. Axl's vocal is amazing and every song is unique. It feels like a project as opposed to a collection of songs that flow in anyway. 

Sorry is better than I remembered. IRS is a beast. Even Shaklers was enjoyable. So many layers, great riffs, outrageous vocals etc. What's not to like. Feel sorry for old school fans and others that don't give it a chance. 

It is obviously different to UYI etc but it is a brilliant record in my view. 

Really enjoyed listening to it to be honest. Haven't heard it as an album in full for a long time. 

If The World was the only track actually improved by the time the album came out. I'm surprised it remained without drums until Frank added his parts, the two demos we have had terrible drum machine parts. The rest of the song was there on both and remained fairly unchanged but at least they put some real drums on it. 

[Voodoochild]

7 hours ago, rumandraisin said:

If The World was the only track actually improved by the time the album came out. I'm surprised it remained without drums until Frank added his parts, the two demos we have had terrible drum machine parts. The rest of the song was there on both and remained fairly unchanged but at least they put some real drums on it. 

I think the Antiquiet demo had Brain drums, those were not drum machine. It was actually quite interesting because it had a very busy snare pattern on the second verse.

[ZoSoRose]

To commemorate I listened to the whole album front- back, this weekend. It has been a while. Honestly, it is still one of my all- time favorite albums. How could it not be with all the hours spent on here talking about the damn thing on here over 15 years 

First half is strong as hell. Chinese- Shacklers- Better is a great opener. Riad has also grown on me immensely over the years. Scraped is the weak link. I did get that one live, once. That was neat, though. 

I also prefer the final album to the demos for the most part.

Anyways, I think I summed up my thoughts and answered @colonizedmind's questions a bit when I made a NuGNR nostalgia thread 2 months ago. To copy it here-

On 9/27/2023 at 12:37 AM, ZoSoRose said:

Time is a circle... or something

It is no secret that I am a huge Slash fan. Every time I see a reunion show, I end up leaving with a huge smile on my face. It is great to see him back in the band (Duff, too). It is as it should be. Hooray!

That being said, I have that nostalgia- thing for all of the memories I had made with NuGNR. With The General finally coming out, I thought it might be nice to reminisce for a bit. Here is an unnecessary wall of text as an ode to the 1999- 2014 lineups. Thanks to everyone who played in the band in all the different lineups. Despite the controversies, those lineups still made a lot of people happy (and frustrated) on here.

I became a GNR fan in around 2005. My intro to the band was thanks to Youtube. For some reason, I went through a "The Godfather" phase freshman year of high school. I mean, 1 and 2 are incredible movies. Some of my favorites, in fact. But what a weird fucking thing... maybe it was because I liked the music so much, especially the main theme. Well, that was around when I started playing guitar. Youtube was brand spanking new and I decided to search "Godfather Guitar" or something. What do you think came up?

So I had discovered Slash. I didn't really dig further, funny enough. That year was that weird "only OLD rock music is good" phase some idiot teenagers go through. I guess I thought 80s bands were too new? I was a moron. Anyways, the following year or so I was listening to my iPod (remember those?), the one with the clicky- wheel, and I had all sorts of pirated rock music I was discovering on there. "Sweet Child O' Mine" came up and then the solo came up and FUCK. I remember it vividly, I was doing yard work and then I went inside to listen better. I was hooked then, it all clicked, and I started going down the GNR rabbit hole. I soon picked up my first GNR album- Use Your Illusion I on CD and I played the shit out of it. I realized GNR was as much the Axl- show as it was the Slash- show with that record. My favorite part was the outro to Coma and that was all Axl. Wikipedia and Youtube were my friends and I learned and listened to all sorts of stuff related to the band. I was so bummed to find out I missed their 2006 stop in Detroit at the time (I also sadly missed the 2007 VR show in Detroit, as my mom didn't want me going into the city alone with my teenage friends... well, they went. Lame). So how does discovering them tie into NuGNR? Well, as a fresh GNR fan in 2005/2006, there was only NuGNR and Velvet Revolver. I dug VR, but wasn't into Scott's voice as much (at the time, I liked high- pitched singers like Plant and Axl. In hindsight, Scott was excellent with STP and VR. RIP), but then I read about Chinese Democracy.

A mythical album that was supposed crazy- Axl's magnum opus with this crazy new band called GNR but it wasn't really GNR except it was? Sounded really interesting. Then, holy shit, there were songs from it out?! Then I got into the leaks, and you know what? I thought those songs fucking ROCKED. I loved The Blues, TWAT, Better, IRS, etc. All of them, really. It wasn't an old band vs. new band thing for me, I just liked all the music. And there were so many songs that were leaked. It felt like I had the album, already (we basically did). Buckethead and Robin Finck weren't Slash, but I didn't care because their guitar playing fucking (and Ron's) worked for me. I still firmly will say Chinese is a kick- ass guitar record. Then I discovered the forums.

The first forum I discovered was Chinesedemocracy.com which led me to finding NewGNR.com and then of course, this forum (pour one out for CD.com and NewGNR.com). I read them all pretty regularly and MyGNR eventually became my most visited website. Crazy to think that was closer to 20 years ago than not. GNR became one of my favorite bands during the last 2 years of high school along with my Led Zeppelin obsession. I wanted to see them so fucking bad and was worried 2006 was my last shot. Its funny thinking that now, since they tour so fucking much, but in the 2000s Axl really only did the 2001/02 and 2006/07 tours, so him coming to town was still a rarity. Finally, in the start of my senior year, Chinese Democracy was actually released and my interest in the band soared. I remember the Axl chats pretty vividly. I had lurked here for a year or two prior, but made an account when he was on here. It was pretty cool, and it put the Chinese takeout songs to the forefront since Chinese was sadly released as a single album- "Atlas Shrugged", "Oklahoma", "Checkmate/Jackie Chan", "Soul Monster", and the big grail for some reason: "The General". Dreams of ChiDem 2 coming in 2009 with these songs and Robin Finck SRV solos were fresh in the air. Oh well. It was fucking dumb in hindsight we all hyped these songs so much without even knowing wtf they were. Its all part of the fun, I guess.

A year went by and there was still no tour. There were rumors and little tidbits (orchestra, Van Halen, Azoff blah blah blah, reunion talk, Robin drama, DJ coming in). DJ was announced as the new guitar player (everyone rightfully thought it was a bad choice from the get- go on here), so surely that meant a tour was coming. Finally, right at the start of college, they announced the Asian tour and then the Canadian tour. The 2010 Canadian tour was surreal for me because there was a show relatively close. I was from metro Detroit, and going to school in Lansing. A show was announced 3 hours away in London, Ontario at a smaller arena. My friend who is not on the forums, but who got into GNR and grew up with them this way the same way was also hyped. I bought two tickets (I didn't drive or have a car), and luckily, his mom agreed to drive us and got us a hotel room. I remember the Taiwan kick- off show like it was just last night. That was absolute peak- GNR fan craze for me. The reunion was close, but I was older and wiser for that. I was a stupid teenager with misplaced priorities in 2009. Of course a Guns N' Roses concert with 1 original member across the globe would be the most exciting thing in the world to me at the time. I followed the show on here, it was a blast. Everyone was at peak hype. The setlist was exciting with "new" Chinese songs in the set, DJ got most everyone's approval (crazy, looking back, but he did exceed expectations in 2010. That quickly died off...), and then the band went on to play crazy marathons in Tokyo. Plus, a great soundboard of the last Tokyo show leaked which was amazing to listen to. Finally, the excruciating wait for the London show ended, and I got to go with my friend to see them. That experience is probably one of my favorite memories. I was also going through my first heartbreak at the time (now I am engaged to the same chick) and I didn't know how to deal with that. GNR was the perfect remedy. We had the quintessential GNR experience at that London show. A long wait, a rowdy crowd where I almost got into a big fight with a low- rate UFC fighter that wanted my spot, girls getting naked in the crowd during the wait for the cameras, Sebastian Bach and Danko Jones opening, and finally, GNR. It blew my fucking head off. We were really close to the stage, and let me tell you, those 2010 shows were magic. Axl sounded fucking amazing and moved around a ton. Now that I think about it, that still might be my overall favorite concert because of the sheer joy I had seeing them. You can't really replicate that when you get older. Priorities change, and even though you still get excited about things, it isn't the same. The show ended super late (because the band went on super late), and we just didn't care. We met people from here and other diehards who shared stories of attending the Vegas 2001 show. At the time, I would have loved seeing them with Bucket and I thought 9 years seemed like an eternity, but now I can say that 2010 London show was 13 years ago. Almost 14. What in the fuck?

I can attach a lot of my memories throughout college to following the band and this forum. I wasn't some loser, I swear! I had a great college experience with a great circle of friends. I should have studied more, but meh, who cares? I had fun! All throughout it I was on this site every day. Meeting people on here, arguing with internet strangers, following shows, pining for new music that wouldn't ever really come in the way we imagined, and even speculating on what a reunion would look like. Rio 2011 was a shift, but hearing Estranged was magic. I saw them in Detroit that winter and getting that live was sublime. That show didn't match London 2010 because it wasn't my first time and because we sat in the stands, but getting Estranged live that first time meant the world. Then, my same buddy and I saw them a few months later on the Up Close and Personal Tour and holy shit, we were so fucking excited to see them in a small venue. We were front row and there was like no barrier. Ron met us before the show (I've had the pleasure of hanging out with him several times, and he is a great dude) and let me play his guitar and signed autographs which blew my mind, and I caught guitar picks from everyone and a drumstick that show. Even high- fived Axl a few times. For 21- year- old- me, I was pretty stoked. We later attended the Hall of Fame, and that was an awesome trip and show, but it didn't match the high of that theater GNR show. We also got to meet Slash at one of his gigs, that year. Not NuGNR related, but 2012 was killer, overall. I always liked Slash and NuGNR, it wasn't a versus thing for me. One of my favorite years and it had lots of Guns- related memories attached. 

All- in- all, I saw that lineup three times. 2010, 2011, 2012. After 2012, they didn't come back to Michigan until the reunion. From 2012-2014, I still followed them on here, but the frustration of diminishing venues and a lack of new music took its toll. There was still fun to be had when things weren't great. For better or worse, this place was pretty fun during things like Bridge School and the Golden Gods. It was nice Duff helped the band out towards the end and I am glad 2014 ended on a high note. Those final Vegas shows seemed pretty cool with some deep cuts and Axl sounding good. I would have liked to have been at the last Vegas show in 2014. It was also cool they put Appetite for Democracy out. It might not be the best NuGNR show, but it is a nice goodbye to that era. Either way, I think the reunion came at the right time. Ron seemed frustrated in the band for years, DJ had become a complete caricature, Tommy was perhaps checked out and focusing on The Replacements reunion, and the project did seem to have run out of gas.

2016 was GREAT. I wouldn't trade that year as a fan for even a new album. It was a dream come true for a GNR fan born in 1991. I never got to see the real- deal, and even though Steven and Izzy were sadly not there, that Vegas trip was incredible. A high level of hype like when I was excited for the Taipei show, but different at the same time (I had other things to care about than GNR in my mid- 20s). The two stadium shows I caught that year were fucking insane. The band may not be as good now as they were in 2016, but I'm still glad they pulled their shit together for this juggernaut. Still, I have a lot of incredible memories that NuGNR was a part of, a lot of the best years were when I was really, really into that band. and lineup. I can also say the same for 2016, and someday, this era too to an extent. It won't be around forever. 

I'm excited for The General with Slash and Duff, but it is still a NuGNR- song at heart. It is crazy we are finally getting it. Even if it sucks, it will be something just to have it out. It can't live up to the hype, but I am hoping it is at least a kick- ass tune. I would have been far more excited for it in 2010-2014, but better late than never! I also totally get why NuGNR was not for everyone. If you grew up while GNR was active, I understand why Axl and a cast of Bucketed and Bumbled characters is not GNR to you. That is cool. It's all just a band name to me, and for me, music is music. A lot has changed over the years, in my life and with the band. It is interesting that some people tie music to stages of their life, and that really sticks. I definitely do. I've met a lot of cool people on here. Some still post, many don't. Either way, I am thankful for the ride and everyone, even the bad stuff. It's a real gas.

Thanks, GNR!

TLDR- What I thought was beautiful is only memories

Edited November 28, 2023 by ZoSoRose

[Rovim]

I still think it's a great album and I still listen to it. After 15 years of listening to all 14 tracks it feels like such a calculated album.

Gn'R has always released very refined albums, but Chinese sounds like it was being constructed in such a way that sometimes I think Axl was trying to fit 3 albums worth of ideas into 1, or at least that's how it ended up being and that made it lose some energy that hard rock albums tend to have just from being a snapshot of when they were created, not like Chinese which feels more cinematic, like Axl had a lot of time and resources to attack each song from every angle and gradually added more new ideas to the same group of tunes, making a grand musical statement.

works for me though, even if I think it could have been even better if Axl knew when it was time to hit the breaks with his tinkering and move forward with its release. Instead, it was overcooked but I don't think it was ruined and some of the changes improved the record imo.

[colonizedmind]

On 11/26/2023 at 4:20 PM, BangoSkank said:

I could roll with this too. 

Something else I think about is if this were billed as a solo project not only would we have more albums (most likely) but we might even have a band that still tours between GNR legs, playing these songs. 

A lot of the music from this era still just fills me with a sense of "what might have been".

I like that point and you could well be right...when Slash goes off to do Conspirators and Duff solo stuff, Axl would of had his band (or rather material) if they had never been labeled as "GNR" to do too...

Although, I think at this point, his voice needs to rest during the time the others play....it could of been viable at one time though.

What might of been....probably the biggest sentiment we all have come back to in here other the 20 + years...I imagine so...

Edited November 29, 2023 by colonizedmind