Chinese @ 15. Your memories/thoughts - Then and now. Anything Goes.

[Draguns]

I was excited to hear Axl but wished that Slash and Duff were on it. To this day, I still think this should have been released as an Axl Rose solo project with the GNR name going into hiatus. I will always think that this was the worst business decision that Axl made. 

TWAT, CD, Better, IRS, Catcher, Sorry, Madagascar, Street of Dreams and Prostitute are good, but not great songs. I was most disappointed with This I Love. It just has too much of an Andrew Lloyd Weber feel to it. Scraped  and Riad are on par with My World as the worst GNR songs. Shackler's Revenge isn't my cup of tea.  If the World is kinda blah.  I mostly listen to TWAT, CD, Better, Madagascar, and Prostitute. 

[-W.A.R-]

It don't really matter. Guess I'll keep it to myself.

[Gordon Comstock]

11 hours ago, adamsapple said:

The shows I went to mean a lot more to me than the actual album. Met the band, made friends, lived my life. Mostly good memories, some not so good ones too. Anyway, in hindsight none of it really matters. But it seemed to at the time and I guess that's ok.

 

Yea, it was great seeing them in smaller venues and hanging out with fellow nerds at the Hard Rock, chatting with other die-hards outside an arena at noon for a show that maybe sold 10k tickets, etc... someone on here, I forget his username, brought inflatable dolphins to the Seattle 2011 show, which we waived around during Estranged... Bumblefoot ended up with mine at one point The forums were generally were more fun, more of a community (for better or worse) and it was more of a niche fandom.

That said, I still love the album. The demos have almost ruined it, there's better versions of almost every song (the best examples being Catcher and The Blues) but it's still a solid album and definitely one of GNR's top 3.

I didn't really get interested in the forums until the first clip of Better leaked in late 2005, signed up for CD/newgnr sometime in 2006, so I wasn't waiting as long as some people. But it was still a great experience listening to the full thing for the first time. I'd heard parts of Sorry, This I Love and Scraped when they posted it on myspace, but tried to hold off for a few days until the album was out. I went to the nearest Best Buy which was about an hour away (and was not the exclusive retailer in Canada ) and listened to the full album on the drive back, it was incredible.

Now, I only listen to the album occasionally, maybe once or twice a year (same with their other albums, honestly). But I became invested in it and it came out at a time in my life that I'll always have a soft spot for it. As far as what could've, should've or would've been... it don't really matter. It should've been released earlier, should've been a double album, should've had 2006 Axl doing late night performances and all that, but at the end of the day, for what it is - it's a great record.

Fuck it, I think I'll throw my headphones on and listen to the album now...

[Bitchisback]

It's funny how much of my life this album took up.  I got into GNR in like 1997/98 when I was 14/15 and they became one of my biggest interests in life.  I had to know everything about them, everything about the new band. All the rumors. Hanging out in chats during the first shows with the new band. Posting on the guns n roses official message boards.  Just waiting for this album to come out.  I am 40 now and that went on for like 25% of my life lol

 

I do enjoy the album though for better or worse.  I think it has incredible highs and some really mid mids.  A few songs on there though are probably some of my favorite songs of all time (TWAT, Madagascar and Sorry for sure).  I still listen to it as much as any other GNR album honestly.

[Gimmick]

Going through a re-listen right now. Even though I like it as a stand-alone song, I really hate where Catcher in the Rye is in the sequencing. Having it right after TWAT just sucks the energy out of the album, they should have put Riad there.

[mikeman5150]

4 hours ago, Old_school_gnr_fan said:

It's an Axl Rose solo record.

Robert Plant didn't release solo records and call it Led Zeppelin, Don Henley didn't release solo records and call it The Eagles, Mick Jagger didn't release solo records and call it The Rolling Stones.

Gotta have more than one original member on an album, otherwise it's a solo record.

For what it's worth, Chinese Democracy has a few bright spots like There Was A Time and Catcher In The Rye, but otherwise it's generally a letdown. I haven't listed to the full album in about ten years.

I think the big difference is that Axl never left Guns N’ Roses, everyone else bailed on him. I think he took it as a me against the world/last man standing carrying the torch for guns. 

[Gibson87]

Chinese saved my life in a way. I became a fan in 2012 and gave Chinese a fair, unbiased listen in 2015ish. Anyways, fast forward to 2017 and I'm a severely depressed college dropout. I didn't get out of bed for a week.

Chinese Democracy kept me going for some reason, especially Catcher and Prostitute. I didn't resonate deeply with the lyrical content but something about those two songs spoke to me and gave me something to look forward to every day. 

I'm doing much better these days and don't listen to GN'R as much but that record will always have a special place in my heart.

[jamillos]

What did Chinese mean to you, at the time, as it finally released and that period in general? The myth, the legend, the frustration...
You said it – the myth, the legend, the frustration… although I can’t really say I ever was overly frustrated. It was more of looking forward to and big expectations on my part rather than frustration, even though I obviously did want to hear it at last as much as the next person. 

Having been a fan since 1992, I basically witnessed the band waning away throughout the vast portion of my "fanhood". And I got used to that. And then that mysterious 2001/2002 era emerged, when I would try to grasp any bits of the new songs' live versions in mp3 anywhere I could, as I didn’t have my own internet connection back then. When I wanted to listen to OMG, I had to get the movie pirated and burned on a CD, then fast forward to the end… 

And then the 2006 era came, Axl looked and sounded great again, and then I saw that T.W.A.T video from the NYC '06 warm-up shows, and I knew it would be awesome. I was blown away by that live rendition, with Axl’s screams, Ron’s guitars and all that. 

The album itself was not a let-down. I did miss some more simple, kick-ass song without long intros, in the vein of Perfect Crime and the likes, but the album sounded pretty much as I’d expected. A certain era definitely concluded that day I put the CD in the drive for the first time. That was a sacred moment, and nobody and nothing was allowed to disturb me.  

What does Chinese mean to you now, 15 years on?
I haven’t heard it in its entirety in a very long time; I think the last time was around the Village leaks. Sure, it’s more of an Axl solo than a true GNR record, but most of us got used to those replacement musicians and gradually adopted them as "GN'R" – which is funny when you look at it from today’s perspective, because now I can once again clearly see what it really was – replacements. Good ones, and good on Axl for having kept it going, but still replacements. The record surely is a bit underappreciated, but a lot of this was caused by the absolute zero promotion and too much fiddling about in the studio, not to mention no-Slash and no real radio hits etc. Good stuff anyway. I remember how excited I was when we progressively got to hear the individual new tunes prior to the release, be it leaks or Shackler in the video game. 

Does the record hold up? Or would you have preferred the '99 version, 2000 intensions or whatever else...
The Village stuff was obviously better in all sorts of aspects, but I don’t really care that much any more. This probably would have been worse if these leaks had happened just a year or two after the release. 
But if you’re asking about holding up in terms of the aspect of time, then it’s perfectly ok. I’ve never been a fan of this "it sounds dated now" nonsense regarding any music, Guns or not. I prefer Pink Floyd's A Momentary Lapse of Reason in the original version, even though they re-recorded it recently, trying to make it sound more modern. The sound of the 1987 is huge part of the record, and I don’t need any reeditions. CD sounds the way it does, and I’m perfectly fine with it. That is, when I do listen to it, which is, as I said, very seldom. 

What have you thought of the tracks we've since had officially and unofficially from CD2/3
Monsters is clearly the best one. Out of the 5 new Village tracks (I only count previously unheard material containing vocals), HS is pretty much top tier, while Perhaps would be somewhere in the middle. Silk Worms / Absurd should have been avoided and should have stayed in 2001, where it belongs. What sucks is that when they'll release a new album, this song probably will be there, i.e. taking up space of another song. I’m not saying it’s horrible, but I just could do without it. The General is not an easy song to listen to, but I quite like that one as well. 

Was Axl rail-roaded by sussy managers, was he the problem, was it the movement in the industry at the time away from big budget music making money, or was it a combo?
Had nothing to do with some major changes in the industry. It was probably money pricks and other leeches complicating things, in combination with Axl’s quirks, obstacles, and perfectionism (read Brain’s interview about how he was recording the drums in that church etc.), also various lawsuits, problems with managers, and the fact he had to replace every single member of the band. A lot of pages have been written about it already, and it definitely wasn’t one-sided either way. It was his doing plus many other circumstances. 

The 2001/2002 era sucked in many ways – Axl looking and sounding weird, the band looking like a circus, the album nowhere near to be seen ("soon" wasn’t the word), cancellations of gigs and then the whole tour –, but I did like one aspect, which was the mystery, the enigmatic shroud around the band and particularly Axl, where nobody in the public knew what was going on or what would happen, and everyone was expecting this mysterious album to emerge at any time. Axl didn't do many interviews and generally stayed out of the public eye for most of the time. That was pretty cool.
Too bad he's kept the non-communication till these days, where it’s definitely not cool any longer, even though it’s understandable that he's butt-hurt from the bad experience surrounding the CD era and doesn’t want to promise anything. I’m not asking him to do that, but perhaps some middle ground would be advisable. 

There’s obviously way more I could write on this topic, like many others, but I’ll just leave it at this...

Edit: The biggest shame is they didn't release TIL with that Axl's vocals from the Brain remix. Best Axl I've heard, ever. 

Edited November 24, 2023 by jamillos

[rumandraisin]

It's been a while since I've played the actual album but play the earlier mixes every week. The 2007 leak of IRS and Madagascar are heavy as fuck, the bass and there was still room for the guitars to breath. Especially on IRS the guitar in the second half when Axl starts screaming is killer. The drums on both are huge, Brain recording them in an old masonic hall as he spoke about. 

What were they thinking by knocking all the life out of it? Tommy's bass almost muted, the drums softened and all the edge taken out of it. 

The final album suffered from a poor mix and Bumblefoot and Frank pointlessly added. 

As for the rest of the songs it's the 2001 mixes for me, the RTB mixes with Brain on drums. 

I might play the album in its final form, it's been a while. 

[adamsapple]

5 hours ago, Gordon Comstock said:

 

Yea, it was great seeing them in smaller venues and hanging out with fellow nerds at the Hard Rock, chatting with other die-hards outside an arena at noon for a show that maybe sold 10k tickets, etc... someone on here, I forget his username, brought inflatable dolphins to the Seattle 2011 show, which we waived around during Estranged... Bumblefoot ended up with mine at one point The forums were generally were more fun, more of a community (for better or worse) and it was more of a niche fandom.

That said, I still love the album. The demos have almost ruined it, there's better versions of almost every song (the best examples being Catcher and The Blues) but it's still a solid album and definitely one of GNR's top 3.

I didn't really get interested in the forums until the first clip of Better leaked in late 2005, signed up for CD/newgnr sometime in 2006, so I wasn't waiting as long as some people. But it was still a great experience listening to the full thing for the first time. I'd heard parts of Sorry, This I Love and Scraped when they posted it on myspace, but tried to hold off for a few days until the album was out. I went to the nearest Best Buy which was about an hour away (and was not the exclusive retailer in Canada ) and listened to the full album on the drive back, it was incredible.

Now, I only listen to the album occasionally, maybe once or twice a year (same with their other albums, honestly). But I became invested in it and it came out at a time in my life that I'll always have a soft spot for it. As far as what could've, should've or would've been... it don't really matter. It should've been released earlier, should've been a double album, should've had 2006 Axl doing late night performances and all that, but at the end of the day, for what it is - it's a great record.

Fuck it, I think I'll throw my headphones on and listen to the album now...

I agree, it was a different vibe and I loved it, especially this whole underground and cult following thing about it. Those shows were...I don't know, they just had a different energy about them. Some mystique and a strange circus vibe (which I loved), yet at the same time there was a very humble element to it. Band was tight and they sounded amazing live. You could see them in small arenas but also at big festivals and tickets were a fraction of today's prices. I would spend more money on gas than tickets, driving across Europe to see them multiple times between 2002 and 2010. 2006 being my favorite shows hands down. Axl had a different aura in 2006, really different from before or after.

I remember one show I dragged a friend along who wasn't too keen on GNR and especially Axl. I said just come and see for yourself you won't regret it. When they opened with WTTJ his jaw dropped to the floor and after Paradise City he had tears in his eyes, freaking out like a squirrel on acid, said this should have been televised nationwide and how it was the best concert ever and Axl is the greatest and what have you, totally excited, praising Axl all the way back and to this day.

 

[ChineseDemocracy2004]

Friends,

Did all tracks bar Scraped and This I Love leak prior to release or am I remembering incorrectly?

[adamsapple]

5 hours ago, Gimmick said:

Going through a re-listen right now. Even though I like it as a stand-alone song, I really hate where Catcher in the Rye is in the sequencing. Having it right after TWAT just sucks the energy out of the album, they should have put Riad there.

Truth be told, that song would stand out anywhere. It's incredible. I like the album version but I prefer the demo with Brian May on guitar.

[jamillos]

20 minutes ago, ChineseDemocracy2004 said:

Friends,

Did all tracks bar Scraped and This I Love leak prior to release or am I remembering incorrectly?

+ Sorry 

[Voodoochild]

The album means a world to me. I've met my wife because of it, among a lot of other things. I've been covering all the songs from CD in my YouTube channel for a reason - there's only one left, Riad, which was always a favorite of mine and I want to make justice to the awesomeness of the track. I still think it's the most underrated GNR song of all. Best drums and guitar riff of that era IMO.

[janrichmond]

I wish I liked it

[Sweersa]

23 hours ago, guitarpatch said:

Hit Best Buy in LA at opening. This store was one of the flagship music stores that also sold instruments and they’d usually get a lot of promo items/signed items etc.. 

Went in and they had red hand covers in the display. Didn’t grab one. Grabbed the normal cover and vinyl. Thought about it all day and went back after work. They were all pulled 

Wow that’s amazing. I thought all the red hand covers were from 2009.

The Better leak got me into guns. I went to Best Buy with my mom and bought a few CD and one vinyl copy the day it came out 

[Sweersa]

49 minutes ago, Voodoochild said:

The album means a world to me. I've met my wife because of it, among a lot of other things. I've been covering all the songs from CD in my YouTube channel for a reason - there's only one left, Riad, which was always a favorite of mine and I want to make justice to the awesomeness of the track. I still think it's the most underrated GNR song of all. Best drums and guitar riff of that era IMO.

That's amazing you met your wife through that album. 

What are your thoughts on who played the guitar solo on the leaked versions of Riad? I thought it was Buckethead for years, but some say Robin. My favorite version of the track is the 2008 leak. I didn't like the extended Pitman (stolen?) intro or Bumblefoot's parts (especially the solo) on the album version. 

[vloors]

First I remember it being released on myspace then listening to it.

Then I bought it and thought it would grow on me but it never has.

Every now and then I give it another go but its just not my piece of pie. 

[SlashisGOD]

I remember driving an hour and a half to the nearest Best Buy to pick up my copy. I was with my gf at the time and as soon as we popped in the cd she said “it doesn’t sound like Axl.” 
 

I thought the leaked versions were much better than the released ones. My favorite songs were Catcher and Street of Dreams(though I’ll always call it The Blues) and I put it back in the case and have listened to it sporadically over the years. It’s just an Axl solo album to me.

[Voodoochild]

16 minutes ago, Sweersa said:

That's amazing you met your wife through that album. 

What are your thoughts on who played the guitar solo on the leaked versions of Riad? I thought it was Buckethead for years, but some say Robin. My favorite version of the track is the 2008 leak. I didn't like the extended Pitman (stolen?) intro or Bumblefoot's parts (especially the solo) on the album version. 

It's both man. First, Robin, for a couple of high pitched sustained notes. Then it's all Bucket. Just like they played it live. 

 

[Appetitefordiscussion]

I remember when it came out. Mostly stuck to Velvet Revolver as a kid but hearing If The World for the first time really opened my mind up to Axl’s versatility and what he was doing those years. Contraband was great, but what Axl did with CD was very DIFFERENT, so that aspect really caught my ear.  Flash forward to 2014, I was really happy to hear Axl talk about the imminent remix album and follow up. Almost so much that I was initially bummed out to hear about the “cash grab nostalgia tour”. 

The 2019 locker leaks and reworked songs sparked my interest again, so I decided to order CD on vinyl. I’ve listened all the way through a few times, but now I tend to just throw on the C side (Scraped, Riad, Sorry, IRS) for a quick listen. Those songs grew on me, it just took 10 years LOL
 

But no, the critics are right. It’s not a GNR record. It’s “Better” 

[Sweersa]

My top two fav songs from that album is Better and This I Love. Scraped is fun too, a guilty pleasure, perhaps. Shackler’s too. I miss Shackler’s live. Axl was a power house during that song in concert. 

[F*ck Fear]

There Was A Time is my favorite song on the album.

I wish This I Love was recorded with raspy vocals. I can't listen to the album version. In 2010 it was fucking killer live.

Catcher, Riad & The Blues all have better versions than what's on the record.

[colonizedmind]

2 hours ago, Voodoochild said:

The album means a world to me. I've met my wife because of it, among a lot of other things. I've been covering all the songs from CD in my YouTube channel for a reason - there's only one left, Riad, which was always a favorite of mine and I want to make justice to the awesomeness of the track. I still think it's the most underrated GNR song of all. Best drums and guitar riff of that era IMO.

Yea...it gets a bit overshadowed because of the silly legal dispute which in turn meant it would be the only track not (and never) preformed live at the start of the Chinese 2009 tour....my word if one day Slash started playing that opening riff, it would be a bit crazy in here! 

[colonizedmind]

5 minutes ago, F*ck Fear said:

There Was A Time is my favorite song on the album.

I wish This I Love was recorded with raspy vocals. I can't listen to the album version. In 2010 it was fucking killer live.

Catcher, Riad & The Blues all have better versions than what's on the record.

Well we did get his raspy vocal take he did after the original vocal take. Not the original Brain remix but it's included in this remake by a fan (Axl's harder vocal)

Wait for the kick in around 1 minute...is that what you were more wanting, along those lines?