Rovim Posted November 12, 2016 Share Posted November 12, 2016 (edited) If I was a current Metallica fan I'd want no release at all ever again after hearing the 3 shitty tunes from Hardwired. The difference between a shit release and no release to me is marginal. Like I'm a Slash fan, but I don't really listen to Apocalyptic Love. And I don't really listen to Death Magnetic either when I feel like I want to hear some Metallica. I can just put Ride The Lightning on or And Justice For All. When I want to listen to music with Axl vocals on it, you bet your ass Chinese is gonna be played as well. That's the difference. Metallica dried up. I'd rather know Axl at least got stuff in the vault that could some day come out or leak than knowing, actually knowing it's over like many Metallica fans already know. I don't mean to shit on Metallica, just don't think they're inspired anymore. That's the problem with some of these metal and hard rock bands, they don't know when to quit/die/close the book and it becomes unworthy to even exist. Axl has a perfect track record. 5 great albums. Metallica 5 great albums. I was being fair, objective, and generous so included both Chinese and The Black album. Honestly, right now as it currently stands, they're both fuckin' pathetic. It would have never come to this for The Beatles. They stroke while the iron was shit hot, released 10 masterpieces, feud a little and broke up. That's the way you should do it. Impossible for Axl of course. None of it is very rock n' roll. None of it has the spirit of a real band. I still want Guns to exist out of love, but it goes against everything rock n' roll is about. These reunions or bands that last for 50 years. Worst of all are bands that release more shit and tour forever just because they got used to it, the comfort in having that amount of money without actually doing the real work plus other ego perks. Edited November 12, 2016 by Rovim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thunderram Posted November 12, 2016 Share Posted November 12, 2016 (edited) 1 hour ago, ludurigan said: i couldnt care less about metallica. i have watched some metallica shows and they are going on autopilot for years the fact that metallica plays the same stupid setlist doesnt prevent anyone from that band to tell that the threeunion is doing the same at least metallica releases albums. Nobody said they couldn't say it. The point is that they are hypocritical in doing so. Not really sure what the hell you are trying to argue against. As for your last comment, to date they've released one more album than GN'R this millennium. ONE. So for the past 13 years, they've toured on the strength of 2 albums the last of which was released more than 8 years ago. Not exactly setting the world on fire or worthy of touting well above GN'R. They both not done much. Hell, Slash has released more than twice as much as Metallica the past 18 years. Even this double album that's dropping in a week won't catch them up. But I guess they get brownie points for being one album better than GN'R the past 18 years. Cool. Edited November 12, 2016 by thunderram Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F*ck Fear Posted November 12, 2016 Share Posted November 12, 2016 Their last album both came out on the same year. He's right though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasted Posted November 12, 2016 Share Posted November 12, 2016 Metalicker have no grounds to call any band nostalgia act. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkenchantress Posted November 12, 2016 Share Posted November 12, 2016 I don't care about Metallica since long long ago but he is right so far. That, if you even can call this a GnR reunion... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted November 12, 2016 Share Posted November 12, 2016 (edited) 8 hours ago, NicDwolfwood said: I didnt remove shit.. you just were SHIT at reading what I said. I said because of this shit, it doesnt exonerate them from being a nostalgia act too. READ BEFORE YOU REPLY, OTHERWISE DONT REPLY hahaha. Outtakes are sad attempts at making money off dumbass people. Outtakes are exactly that because they either werent good enough to be on the original record, or in this case some of those songs on the EP were better than some of the atrocious songs that ended up on DM. So they ended up looking shit because those probably should of replaced horrible songs on DM. You are just using bias to sustain your arguments. Firstly, most of the great acts have released outtakes records, Who Odds and Sods, Zeppelin Coda, Dylan Basement Tapes, etc. - not to mention larger archival projects such as The Beatles Anthology. Outtakes records are actually very 'fan friendly' interesting releases (some of my favourite albums are outtakes albums!). Secondly, statements like ''atrocious songs...horrible songs'' are absolute subjectivity and can be dismissed with all of the haste they deserve. 5 hours ago, thunderram said: Sure you can. A member of Metallica made a statement about something they've been guilty of themselves for several years now while also having not released an album since before Chinese Democracy. Therein lies the comparison. But they are about to release an album in a week or so, and are already playing three songs from it! Wait until November 18th and they're already 2:1 on Axl. Further, releases commencing 2008, original material in bold, Metallica Death Magnetic (album) Sept 2008 "Remember Tomorrow", Maiden Heaven: A Tribute to Iron Maiden 2008 Orgullo, Pasión, y Gloria: Tres Noches en la Ciudad de México (live film/album) November 2009 Français Pour une Nuit (live film) Nov 2009 "You Really Got Me" (collaboration with Ray Davies) See My Friends 2010 The Big Four: Live from Sofia, Bulgaria (Live film with Slayer, Megadeth and Anthrax) Nov 2010 Six Feet Down Under (live E.P.) Sept 2010 Six Feet Down Under Part II (Live E.P.) Nov 2010 Live at Grimey's (live E.P.) Nov 2010 Lulu (album with Lou Reed) Nov 2011 Beyond Magnetic (outtakes E.P.) Dec 2011 "When a Blind Man Cries", Re-Machined: A Tribute To Deep Purple's Machine Head 2013 Quebec Magnetic (live film) Dec 2012 Through the Never (film/live album) Sept 2013 "Ronnie Rising Medley", Ronnie James Dio - This is Your Life (tribute album) 2014. ''Lords of Summer'' (single) March 2014. Hardwired... to Self-Destruct (album) Nov 2016 Guns N' Roses Chinese Democracy (album) Nov 2008 Appetite for Democracy 3D (live film) July 2014 Who has the happier fanbase (subjectivity aside)? Edited November 12, 2016 by DieselDaisy 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Live Like a Suicide Posted November 12, 2016 Share Posted November 12, 2016 (edited) Coming from a member of a band whose last album was released the same year as Chinese Democracy... Edited November 12, 2016 by Live Like a Suicide Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Towelie Posted November 12, 2016 Share Posted November 12, 2016 (edited) 11 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said: You are just using bias to sustain your arguments. Firstly, most of the great acts have released outtakes records, Who Odds and Sods, Zeppelin Coda, Dylan Basement Tapes, etc. - not to mention larger archival projects such as The Beatles Anthology. Outtakes records are actually very 'fan friendly' interesting releases (some of my favourite albums are outtakes albums!). Secondly, statements like ''atrocious songs...horrible songs'' are absolute subjectivity and can be dismissed with all of the haste they deserve. But they are about to release an album in a week or so, and are already playing three songs from it! Wait until November 18th and they're already 2:1 on Axl. Further, releases commencing 2008, original material in bold, Metallica Death Magnetic (album) Sept 2008 "Remember Tomorrow", Maiden Heaven: A Tribute to Iron Maiden 2008 Orgullo, Pasión, y Gloria: Tres Noches en la Ciudad de México (live film/album) November 2009 Français Pour une Nuit (live film) Nov 2009 "You Really Got Me" (collaboration with Ray Davies) See My Friends 2010 The Big Four: Live from Sofia, Bulgaria (Live film with Slayer, Megadeth and Anthrax) Nov 2010 Six Feet Down Under (live E.P.) Sept 2010 Six Feet Down Under Part II (Live E.P.) Nov 2010 Live at Grimey's (live E.P.) Nov 2010 Lulu (album with Lou Reed) Nov 2011 Beyond Magnetic (outtakes E.P.) Dec 2011 "When a Blind Man Cries", Re-Machined: A Tribute To Deep Purple's Machine Head 2013 Quebec Magnetic (live film) Dec 2012 Through the Never (film/live album) Sept 2013 "Ronnie Rising Medley", Ronnie James Dio - This is Your Life (tribute album) 2014. Hardwired... to Self-Destruct (album) Nov 2016 Guns N' Roses Chinese Democracy (album) Nov 2008 Appetite for Democracy 3D (live film) July 2014 Who has the happier fanbase (subjectivity aside)? Subjectivity can't really be put aside though.... far be it from me to defend Axl's lack of productivity (I'm not btw), but it should be about quality, not quantity. I would take the song "Better" over everything from that vast list of post-2008 releases from Metallica. One great song trumps 100 average ones. Edited November 12, 2016 by Towelie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted November 12, 2016 Share Posted November 12, 2016 4 minutes ago, Towelie said: Subjectivity can't really be put aside though.... far be it from me to defend Axl's lack of productivity (I'm not btw), but it should be about quality, not quantity. I would take the song "Better" over everything from that vast list of post-2008 releases from Metallica. One great song trumps 100 average ones. I believe it can (although obviously not by GN'R fans who are quite honestly the most biased fans in existence!). In fact I am a practitioner myself in this very thread, as I am defending Metallica's legacy and Kirk's statement while disliking Metallica! Metallica are heavy metal and I do not like metal in the slightest, although I did use to listen to that genre when I was a teenager. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted November 12, 2016 Share Posted November 12, 2016 11 minutes ago, Live Like a Suicide said: Coming from a member of a band whose last album was released the same year as Chinese Democracy... Neither of them are Neil Young or James Brown here. Metallica are notorious plodders, but they look positively active when compared with Axl, and I suspect Metallica fans are the happier. You have to remember that Metallica released three albums between c. 1992 to c. 2007, a time when Axl put out exactly zilch (covers aside). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Live Like a Suicide Posted November 12, 2016 Share Posted November 12, 2016 Just now, DieselDaisy said: Neither of them are Neil Young or James Brown here. Metallica are notorious plodders, but they look positively active when compared with Axl, and I suspect Metallica fans are the happier. You have to remember that Metallica released three albums between c. 1992 to c. 2007, a time when Axl put out exactly zilch (covers aside). Right, but Kirk's point of contention is that Guns is a nostalgia act because they haven't produced an album since 2008, or played any new songs at recent shows. In some respects, he is right, because Guns has only recently reunited and are playing old songs for fans. However it is also too early to judge the band, considering it went on hiatus in 2014 and only re-emerged some months ago with a different lineup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swedish Posted November 12, 2016 Share Posted November 12, 2016 In a year or so they may not be (if they release an album) but right now Kirk's right in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted November 12, 2016 Share Posted November 12, 2016 9 minutes ago, Live Like a Suicide said: Right, but Kirk's point of contention is that Guns is a nostalgia act because they haven't produced an album since 2008, or played any new songs at recent shows. In some respects, he is right, because Guns has only recently reunited and are playing old songs for fans. However it is also too early to judge the band, considering it went on hiatus in 2014 and only re-emerged some months ago with a different lineup. He just seemed to be referring to 'Guns N' Roses' in toto with no particular specificity to the 2016 rapprochement, and, as we all know, 2011 - 2014 was particularly high on nostalgia. Newly reunited bands have recorded albums first, namely Deep Purple #2 (Perfect Strangers) and Van Halen (A Different Kind of Truth); there is no rule that specifies that one should ''play the hits for x number of years upon reuniting before considering new material''. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocknroll41 Posted November 12, 2016 Share Posted November 12, 2016 51 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said: You are just using bias to sustain your arguments. Firstly, most of the great acts have released outtakes records, Who Odds and Sods, Zeppelin Coda, Dylan Basement Tapes, etc. - not to mention larger archival projects such as The Beatles Anthology. Outtakes records are actually very 'fan friendly' interesting releases (some of my favourite albums are outtakes albums!). Secondly, statements like ''atrocious songs...horrible songs'' are absolute subjectivity and can be dismissed with all of the haste they deserve. But they are about to release an album in a week or so, and are already playing three songs from it! Wait until November 18th and they're already 2:1 on Axl. Further, releases commencing 2008, original material in bold, Metallica Death Magnetic (album) Sept 2008 "Remember Tomorrow", Maiden Heaven: A Tribute to Iron Maiden 2008 Orgullo, Pasión, y Gloria: Tres Noches en la Ciudad de México (live film/album) November 2009 Français Pour une Nuit (live film) Nov 2009 "You Really Got Me" (collaboration with Ray Davies) See My Friends 2010 The Big Four: Live from Sofia, Bulgaria (Live film with Slayer, Megadeth and Anthrax) Nov 2010 Six Feet Down Under (live E.P.) Sept 2010 Six Feet Down Under Part II (Live E.P.) Nov 2010 Live at Grimey's (live E.P.) Nov 2010 Lulu (album with Lou Reed) Nov 2011 Beyond Magnetic (outtakes E.P.) Dec 2011 "When a Blind Man Cries", Re-Machined: A Tribute To Deep Purple's Machine Head 2013 Quebec Magnetic (live film) Dec 2012 Through the Never (film/live album) Sept 2013 "Ronnie Rising Medley", Ronnie James Dio - This is Your Life (tribute album) 2014. Hardwired... to Self-Destruct (album) Nov 2016 Guns N' Roses Chinese Democracy (album) Nov 2008 Appetite for Democracy 3D (live film) July 2014 Who has the happier fanbase (subjectivity aside)? You forgot the one-off single "Lords of Summer" from 2014. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free Bird Posted November 12, 2016 Share Posted November 12, 2016 13 hours ago, DieselDaisy said: So we are now seeing Nugnr as an aberration, something to not be regarded? Can we just clarify this? I mean, ironically I've been saying similar stuff for years only to be told by the Axl fanatics: ''Nooo, you are wrong. Nugnr is Guns N' Roses. You do not get to dictate what is Guns. It says Guns on the album (Chinese) cover'' etc etc! These Axl fanatics wouldn't except this as GNR if Slash had managed to get the rights for the name back then and he would be the only member. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted November 12, 2016 Share Posted November 12, 2016 3 minutes ago, rocknroll41 said: You forgot the one-off single "Lords of Summer" from 2014. I've edited it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvanG Posted November 12, 2016 Share Posted November 12, 2016 10 hours ago, lassie said: As good Metallica is, there best stuff was in the 80s, and The black album, the stuff since then is nothing special, And they have never made songs like Sweet child o mine. Estranged. November Rain. Coma. So Fine. One in a million. Cival War. Breakdown. You could be mine. Songs there are better than Metallica has ever done. And i do love the Metallica stuff in the 80s. Master of puppets. Ride The lighting etc. That's pretty subjective, isn't it? At least throw an ''IMO'' in there if you make such comments. With Load and Reload they turned more to a hardrock sound, and a lot of fans didn't like that, they just wanted metal from Metallica, and that's fine. But others did like their new sound... more melody, they evolved their sound a bit. It's all a matter of taste. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalsh327 Posted November 12, 2016 Share Posted November 12, 2016 They've become more "fan friendly" post Napster and the best thing to come out of St Anger was Some Kind of Monster, who are a far cry from the Black Album documentary. Metallica own their masters so now anything back catalog is all money in their pockets. Not sure when GNR get those rights so they can do a Deluxe Appetite esp. if Axl's had his contract renegotiated multiple times. As far as nostalgia goes, they just released 2 Deluxe Editions of Kill Em All and Ride the Lightning, they did a 30th anniversary residency bringing former members back on stage with them. Supposedly we'll get the "And Justice For Bass" mix when AJFA Deluxe comes out. Keep in mind the Big 4 tour was heavily back catalog and 2 DM songs, plus they brought Mustaine out which is no different than Adler coming out with GNR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvanG Posted November 12, 2016 Share Posted November 12, 2016 (edited) 8 hours ago, thunderram said: Don't be an idiot. The core of this current band has been broke up for over 20 years. They've been back together for less than a year. Yet you're crying because they haven't released a new album since their first show in April. No, I'm crying that Axl hasn't released an album since 2008, and for that one I had to wait 17 years. Do get your facts straight. Edited November 12, 2016 by EvanG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xedos Posted November 12, 2016 Share Posted November 12, 2016 It´s stupid to argue about this statement from Kirk because it is 100% not meant in a mean way. Everyone in Metallica is friend with someone in GnR, so he was not trying to bully anybody. But at the end of the day I think he is absolutely right. People are going to see GnR with sentimental fellings. Same as I will do as soon as they come to Germany. This Band meant the world to me when I was a teenager and to call this "nostalgia" is kind of true. But on the other hand I am sure that Axl, Slash and Duff will work on new stuff during this Tour and they will come out with a mindblowing record !!! Maybe it will be called "Notalgia" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swedish Posted November 12, 2016 Share Posted November 12, 2016 16 minutes ago, EvanG said: That's pretty subjective, isn't it? At least throw an ''IMO'' in there if you make such comments. With Load and Reload they turned more to a hardrock sound, and a lot of fans didn't like that, they just wanted metal from Metallica, and that's fine. But others did like their new sound... more melody, they evolved their sound a bit. It's all a matter of taste. This! Load is (unpopular opinion) one of my favourite Metallica albums! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvanG Posted November 12, 2016 Share Posted November 12, 2016 1 minute ago, youngswedishvinyl said: This! Load is (unpopular opinion) one of my favourite Metallica albums! Yeah, I liked a lot of the stuff on those albums too. I'm a melody guy, and that has always been lacking with Metallica, you won't find many melodies on their 80s and early 90s stuff. So there are a lot of people who didn't start liking Metallica until those albums. But there's no right or wrong, it's whatever you prefer. But some posters act like those albums can't be any good just because they prefer the metal songs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted November 12, 2016 Share Posted November 12, 2016 In actual fact, considering I do not really like metal, I'd probably be more inclined to listen to Load than any other Metallica album. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swedish Posted November 12, 2016 Share Posted November 12, 2016 28 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said: In actual fact, considering I do not really like metal, I'd probably be more inclined to listen to Load than any other Metallica album. You know what? I think I'll bust out my old Load cassette later today! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Good, Fuck'n, Night. Posted November 12, 2016 Share Posted November 12, 2016 13 hours ago, wasted said: Metallica have a new album out. But there last one was same year CD came out. So they have 3 new songs which are probably rehashes of what they did. So the last time they played something new was around St Anger. So they aren't a nostalgia act? However much Metallica develop they will never get to Shackler's, If the World, Prostitute of new songs. They've never done anything new that they kept in their set list. Metallica are doing nostalgia albums and GNR keep evolving at their own pace but have never rehashed the past yet on an album. My god there are some loons on this board. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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