Copyright Strikes....

[allwaystired]

20 minutes ago, RussTCB said:

Yeah, and it's so funny to me (in a bad way) that the people trying to make excuses for TB and their associates don't have any clue about that aspect of the story. 

TB has aligned themselves with people who post actual hate and rascim. They've also aligned themselves with people who leak material while taking down live videos and claiming they're acting on be behalf of the band while doing so.

Those are facts that have been bubbling under the surface for quite some time. TB have been able to (slightly) hide behind ignoring the situation. Now we've reached a point where the fanbase has just had enough and are speaking out.

In the overall scheme of things, all of this means nothing. I mean, it's all just surrounding a rock band to begin with. This isn't a world shaking thing we're talking about after all. All of us could stop going to GNR shows and/or stop buying any and all merch tomorrow and it truthfully won't mean a thing. The band will keep raking in money off of people that aren't us and that's fine. I'm not saying it's right, I'm just saying that's what will happen.

However, I feel strongly that this fanbase has been treated like shit by TB for more than long enough. We're not going to censor people who have every right to feel insulted by TB and who they associate with. 

Circling back to your original point; it's laughable to me that we've been accused of "promoting hate" when it's TB who is openly associating with and encouraging the ones who actually promote hate and racism. 

I'm not sure where suggesting tolerating and failing to reprimand racism is not right is "promoting hate" personally. Beyond parody really - and a classic play at the moment in the political world - someone says something, then you throw it back at them accusing them of the same thing. A Trump special. 

I just don't understand it, at all. 

We know we have some odd, peculiar, aggressive individuals happy to make, distribute and laugh at appalling racism. They don't hide this. They're proud of it. They can retrospectively deny it if they wish (as they deny being part of the takedowns) but we have many levels of proof. 

We know they are happy to threaten, stalk and lie to people, including impersonating band members. Tommy Stinson was happy to call them out online for impersonating him. Again, we have proof of all this.

So seriously, what the fuck is going on here, when making racist images doesn't even get you a forum ban?! Why defend these people, at the expense of right-minded fans? 

We're missing a piece of this puzzle for sure.  

 

Edited October 28, 2019 by allwaystired

[Blackstar]

4 minutes ago, Jordan Rose said:

In 2002 on stage he said he didn't mind the photos and videos. He also said how Bucket bought a bootleg of a show off they'd done off ebay and was proud of it. 

So what changed? Why after Saskatoon leaked did he and the minions explicitly give Alford and the "it" access to an official account to fast track takedowns of all unofficial videos? 

He also told a story from the stage in Coachella about a Prince bootleg he had. And the funny thing is that he added, "Do you know what this [a bootleg] is?" probably thinking that the younger generations don't know what bootlegs are 

 

[Jordan Rose]

6 minutes ago, allwaystired said:

We're missing a piece of this puzzle for sure.  

 

This is news to me. Could you be more specific? Is this Walker/Mofo/EmEssEl spreading racist memes and racist towards whom?

[fantomas]

The lack of creative output has made it quite clear that Slash and Duff are simply in it for the money. They're simply going through the motions for a paycheck. So much for artist integrity. 

[allwaystired]

1 minute ago, Jordan Rose said:

This is news to me. Could you be more specific? Is this Walker/Mofo/EmEssEl spreading racist memes and racist towards whom?

To summarize really quickly: 

'Those that shall not be named' created and shared some very racist images and memes about Margot a while back. Complaints were made to the Nightrain forum, nothing happened. It was indefensible stuff, and no one could understand why it wasn't condemned. Obviously it's just a small (albeit disgusting) aspect of these individuals behaviour, that's reared it's head again due to the recent events. 

My 'we're missing a piece of this puzzle' suggestion refers really to that there MUST be some reason that these individuals are allowed to behave like this without condemnation. Not banning someone form a forum for something like that is just absolutely bizarre, and coupled with all the other things that have gone on, it's incomprehensible. 

 

[guitarpatch]

29 minutes ago, Jordan Rose said:

In 2002 on stage he said he didn't mind the photos and videos. He also said how Bucket bought a bootleg of a show off they'd done off ebay and was proud of it. 

So what changed? Why after Saskatoon leaked did he and the minions explicitly give Alford and the "it" access to an official account to fast track takedowns of all unofficial videos? 

It’s either coming from Axl or the camp just has taken a stance that they don’t care about it and therefore won’t lift a finger either way for it. (Talking about fan generated content/not leaks). 

They know who’s doing it, and at best don’t feel one way or the other in addressing it. It’s incredibly short sighted for 2019 and perhaps should tell you everything you need to know about their strategy moving forward. Hit it and quit it 

 

Edited October 28, 2019 by guitarpatch

[DieselDaisy]

1 hour ago, Azifwekare said:

Imo, Rock In Rio 2011 is when GNR died. From that point, it was 100% visible how tired, fed up and unmotivated the entire band were.

Something certainly died in Rose around that time. Nostalgia got heavily ramped up. Vocals declined rapidly. The whole Chinese 2 thingy was shelved it seemed. 2010 was probably the last year he looked much of anything really. 

[SoulMonster]

I don't think TB is pulling some Machiavellian trick here, secretly engaging moronic underlings to vipe the Internet for GN'R live videos for reasons that can only be described as mysterious. I think they understand the value of live videos on Internet. I think Beta's latest comment indicate this.

But I do think they want to take down some videos, as indicated by Fernando's and Beta's recent comments. Probably videos that are less...flattering to Axl. So maybe some plan gone awry? Some communication issue between them and whoever does it? As for her comments about the identity of the persons taking the videos down, and them not being a fan, maybe she is just over her head with all this and not fully committed to figuring it out and quite frankly a bit pissed with it all. That doesn't mean she is behind it or know exactly what is going on.

Remember Hanlon's razor: "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity".

[SoulMonster]

5 minutes ago, guitarpatch said:

They know who’s doing it, and at best don’t feel one way or the other in addressing it. It’s incredibly short sighted for 2019 and perhaps should tell you everything you need to know about their strategy moving forward. Hit it and quit it 

Sorry for my ignorance, but how do they know who is behind it? How does anyone really know this? Can we for certain say it is one or two guys who take them all down? Or could it be a case of the management (or someone connected to it) taking down some videos, then the two assholes taking down a bunch of others to spite people here and there and just because they are worthless human being with no past or future, then even someone else taking down some other videos? I just don't see how we can with any degree of certainty say that it is proven who has been taking down thousands of videos (nor how this evidence has been presented to TB). 

[action]

racism and bullying should never be allowed. if management did those things to a fan (can't really comment here since I'm not aware what happened there), then the victim should file a complaint. no one is above the law.

I think, if we're discussing such an important event, we should be provided with all the facts, preferrably with screenshots. Since all of that supposedly happened on a public forum, there is no restriction to post it all here, and for us to comment on it. I say, we should put it all on the table.

Also, @RussTCB, feel free to remove this post should this be against the board policy. I couldn't find anything in the board rules.

What was the cause for the memes, what was TB's involvement in it, and has the victim filed a complaint or not?

I find it very hard arguing over something I know nothing about, but I feel this is still a big deal.

Like I said: racism and xenophobia is a serious offence. That's where I draw the line.

[allwaystired]

2 minutes ago, action said:

racism and bullying should never be allowed. if management did those things to a fan (can't really comment here since I'm not aware what happened there), then the victim should file a complaint. no one is above the law.

I think, if we're discussing such an important event, we should be provided with all the facts, preferrably with screenshots. Since all of that supposedly happened on a public forum, there is no restriction to post it all here, and for us to comment on it. I say, we should put it all on the table.

Also, @RussTCB, feel free to remove this post should this be against the board policy. I couldn't find anything in the board rules.

What was the cause for the memes, what was TB's involvement in it, and has the victim filed a complaint or not?

I find it very hard arguing over something I know nothing about, but I feel this is still a big deal.

Like I said: racism and xenophobia is a serious offence. That's where I draw the line.

Just to very quickly nip this one in the bud:

It WASN'T TB who have said or done anything racist. No one is suggesting they have, so best to clear that up. 

 

 

[BlueJean Baby]

Out of respect for Margott, I don't feel these things should be posted. I saw them, they were horrific. It involved photoshopping a monkey's face onto pics of her, that is all I will say. Margott is originally from Peru, she is a pretty lady and such nasty depictions of her online are extremely racist and the people who did this shit are disgusting individuals. 🤬

[BlueJean Baby]

2 minutes ago, allwaystired said:

Just to very quickly nip this one in the bud:

It WASN'T TB who have said or done anything racist. No one is suggesting they have, so best to clear that up. 

 

 

Not directly, but it was brought to the attention of the admins of the official forum and to Live Nation/Tickermaster, who own the official forum and basically passed the buck back to the admins, who are part of TB. 

[swishtz]

 

4 minutes ago, allwaystired said:

Just to very quickly nip this one in the bud:

It WASN'T TB who have said or done anything racist. No one is suggesting they have, so best to clear that up. 

 

 

 

[allwaystired]

4 minutes ago, BlueJean Baby said:

Out of respect for Margott, I don't feel these things should be posted. I saw them, they were horrific. It involved photoshopping a monkey's face onto pics of her, that is all I will say. Margott is originally from Peru, she is a pretty lady and such nasty depictions of her online are extremely racist and the people who did this shit are disgusting individuals. 🤬

I totally agree. There's no benefit at all in posting them again. 

[RussTCB]

21 minutes ago, action said:

racism and bullying should never be allowed. if management did those things to a fan (can't really comment here since I'm not aware what happened there), then the victim should file a complaint. no one is above the law.

I think, if we're discussing such an important event, we should be provided with all the facts, preferrably with screenshots. Since all of that supposedly happened on a public forum, there is no restriction to post it all here, and for us to comment on it. I say, we should put it all on the table.

Also, @RussTCB, feel free to remove this post should this be against the board policy. I couldn't find anything in the board rules.

What was the cause for the memes, what was TB's involvement in it, and has the victim filed a complaint or not?

I find it very hard arguing over something I know nothing about, but I feel this is still a big deal.

Like I said: racism and xenophobia is a serious offence. That's where I draw the line.

I don't care to have the vile things actually posted here on our board, but that's just my choice. 

16 minutes ago, allwaystired said:

Just to very quickly nip this one in the bud:

It WASN'T TB who have said or done anything racist. No one is suggesting they have, so best to clear that up. 

That's absolutely correct. I should make that clear. It's not TB who've said racist things, it's one of the people they associate with who has told everyone they act on behalf of the bamd. 

15 minutes ago, BlueJean Baby said:

Out of respect for Margott, I don't feel these things should be posted. I saw them, they were horrific. It involved photoshopping a monkey's face onto pics of her, that is all I will say. Margott is originally from Peru, she is a pretty lady and such nasty depictions of her online are extremely racist and the people who did this shit are disgusting individuals. 🤬

This ^^^^^^^^^

[Lio]

21 minutes ago, action said:

racism and bullying should never be allowed. if management did those things to a fan (can't really comment here since I'm not aware what happened there), then the victim should file a complaint. no one is above the law.

I think, if we're discussing such an important event, we should be provided with all the facts, preferrably with screenshots. Since all of that supposedly happened on a public forum, there is no restriction to post it all here, and for us to comment on it. I say, we should put it all on the table.

Also, @RussTCB, feel free to remove this post should this be against the board policy. I couldn't find anything in the board rules.

What was the cause for the memes, what was TB's involvement in it, and has the victim filed a complaint or not?

I find it very hard arguing over something I know nothing about, but I feel this is still a big deal.

Like I said: racism and xenophobia is a serious offence. That's where I draw the line.

The racism was done by the two individuals we all suspect are behind the takedowns. The one who did the monkeyface meme is the same one who has been bragging about taking down videos. He has a long history on the boards. He impersonated Izzy many years ago, he's been an avid NuGNR fan, especially DJ Ashba. Then he turned around and told everyone here he was trolling, apologizing for it, and opening a Slash fanpage. He was banned everywhere for spreading personal information about admins/mods/people on the forum. He's also the one supposedly threatening another fan, after which a year later, last summer, he went to get the Zutaut leaks with the threatened fan. A few years ago, Tommy Stinson called him out on FB for impersonating him. He's been insulting TB and has profile pics on social media with TB and GNR members. Now this is the person Beta was defending. And he's really happy about it, as he reposted it to his social media and saying he hopes now everyone leaves him alone.

These are all facts.

The other individual remains more mysterious. What I do know of him is he makes the Nightrain a nightmare.

[SoulMonster]

32 minutes ago, BlueJean Baby said:

Not directly, but it was brought to the attention of the admins of the official forum and to Live Nation/Tickermaster, who own the official forum and basically passed the buck back to the admins, who are part of TB. 

So members of Team Brazil are admins at the official forum (I assume we are talking about Nightrain here), yet owned by Live Nation/Ticketmaster?

[SoulMonster]

36 minutes ago, BlueJean Baby said:

Out of respect for Margott, I don't feel these things should be posted. I saw them, they were horrific. It involved photoshopping a monkey's face onto pics of her, that is all I will say. Margott is originally from Peru, she is a pretty lady and such nasty depictions of her online are extremely racist and the people who did this shit are disgusting individuals. 🤬

That's horrible. And the posts weren't removed by the admins? Absolutely vile.

 

[action]

14 minutes ago, Lio said:

The racism was done by the two individuals we all suspect are behind the takedowns. The one who did the monkeyface meme is the same one who has been bragging about taking down videos. He has a long history on the boards. He impersonated Izzy many years ago, he's been an avid NuGNR fan, especially DJ Ashba. Then he turned around and told everyone here he was trolling, apologizing for it, and opening a Slash fanpage. He was banned everywhere for spreading personal information about admins/mods/people on the forum. He's also the one supposedly threatening another fan, after which a year later, last summer, he went to get the Zutaut leaks with the threatened fan. A few years ago, Tommy Stinson called him out on FB for impersonating him. He's been insulting TB and has profile pics on social media with TB and GNR members. Now this is the person Beta was defending. And he's really happy about it, as he reposted it to his social media and saying he hopes now everyone leaves him alone.

These are all facts.

The other individual remains more mysterious. What I do know of him is he makes the Nightrain a nightmare.

thanks for clearing that up.

I was under the impression, given the huge activity in this thread, that TB were the ones posting racist stuff.

So basically, we're giving attention to a massive troll who harrasses a fan in a racist way, and TB is acting a bit oblivious about it.

Now to make this clear, I don't give a flying fuck about the troll. there are many trolls / racists in the world.

Until I have evidence that TB is actively promoting such abusive behaviour, and until this on the contrary remains a case of huge neglect on their part, forgive me if I don't think what TB did or didn't, isn't the end of the world.

they are still twats (but then again, what's new), they will never become our best friends, and all we should put our energy in is: will they fucking release something new, or not?

[soon]

This is all very shocking news for me to read! How disgusting. Im late to this as Im not on socials or other Guns forums. Enough with these clowns. Iirc they've previously mocked someones disability too. My heart goes out to anyone who's been mocked or attacked online by these losers. 

I am angry and also sad. How do we turn our disgust and rage into some sort of positive change?

 

[RussTCB]

10 minutes ago, action said:

thanks for clearing that up.

I was under the impression, given the huge activity in this thread, that TB were the ones posting racist stuff.

So basically, we're giving attention to a massive troll who harrasses a fan in a racist way, and TB is acting a bit oblivious about it.

No. The trolls have garnered all of the attention themselves. 

TB has acted oblivious to it for a while, until Beta chose to openly lie about not knowing who it is. All while having full knowledge of who they are and what they've done. 

That's what's causing the latest problem. 

[Lio]

11 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

So members of Team Brazil are admins at the official forum (I assume we are talking about Nightrain here), yet owned by Live Nation/Ticketmaster?

At least two people touring with GNR are admins/mods. But they make sure to tell everyone they're volunteers. So basically that's an excuse not to be around much. (Or at least it was when I was still on there.)

8 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

That's horrible. And the posts weren't removed by the admins? Absolutely vile.

 

They were removed as far as I know, but it was then hushed up. The person who posted it was never reprimanded, warned, banned or whatever.

[SoulMonster]

3 minutes ago, Lio said:

At least two people touring with GNR are admins/mods. But they make sure to tell everyone they're volunteers. So basically that's an excuse not to be around much. (Or at least it was when I was still on there.)

They were removed as far as I know, but it was then hushed up. The person who posted it was never reprimanded, warned, banned or whatever.

Okay, that is a bit different to saying they are part of Team Brazil. And lax moderation can result in posts not getting deleted quickly enough - it has happened on larger platforms :). But not banning the posters when found out is inexcusable or just means that it is a place where anything is allowed, which I don't think is the case.

So what people are saying, is that whoever claims to be behind the the takedowns seem to enjoy protection at the official forum and get away with things that other would get in trouble for?

[Politania]

Beta was telling that she is sick of Margott 's behaviour,  right? Did i miss sth or I don’t understand but did Margott got in touch/ wrote sth to this guy, who's been called Walker,  and has been protecting by Beta? I didn't noticed any comment from Margott about this guy? 😕 she just politely asked gnr to do sth about takedowns?

@Lio thx for clearing up things to me as well.

Edited October 28, 2019 by Politania