Copyright Strikes....

[SoulMonster]

23 minutes ago, jamillos said:

Also, just how many times do you stick your hand through a fence to get bitten each time before you realize what you’re doing is idiotic? 

Years of patience. Yes, we’ve been there, done that. 

If whatever response TB has had towards our previous attempts at civil communication feels like being bitten, then yes, of course people would stop trying. No one likes being bit. But is it really that bad? Some harsh words and arrogance? Are we really this sensitive? I feel like that is what I get thrown my way at an average day on the forums  Maybe I am too stupid to withdraw?

That being said, my communication with TB it have always been civil enough. The problem isn't that, but more a fundamentally different way of seeing things. But again, it must be possible to align such differences through communication. Again, not over night, and not by pushing them away through accusations or "woe be me's". Secondly, as mysteron and downzy have discussed, entering such communication from a platform TB perceive as "the enemy" probably puts you at a significant disadvantage from the get-go. Doing it from the official forum, or directly without coming from any forum (as in my case), might be a lot more effective. And again, just to stress this, my posts in this thread have never been about this forum only but the hardcore fan base in total wherever we are (here, there and everywhere). I could of course post this on Nightrain, but I am not paying money to access that shitty forum just to spread this message. And I am not really active on other social media.

[Mysteron]

40 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

If whatever response TB has had towards our previous attempts at civil communication feels like being bitten, then yes, of course people would stop trying. No one likes being bit. But is it really that bad? Some harsh words and arrogance? Are we really this sensitive? I feel like that is what I get thrown my way at an average day on the forums  Maybe I am too stupid to withdraw?

That being said, my communication with TB it have always been civil enough. The problem isn't that, but more a fundamentally different way of seeing things. But again, it must be possible to align such differences through communication. Again, not over night, and not by pushing them away through accusations or "woe be me's". Secondly, as mysteron and downzy have discussed, entering such communication from a platform TB perceive as "the enemy" probably puts you at a significant disadvantage from the get-go. Doing it from the official forum, or directly without coming from any forum (as in my case), might be a lot more effective. And again, just to stress this, my posts in this thread have never been about this forum only but the hardcore fan base in total wherever we are (here, there and everywhere). I could of course post this on Nightrain, but I am not paying money to access that shitty forum just to spread this message. And I am not really active on other social media.

I think if GNR are going to ignore these forums, they should really develop their own forum so people do have a platform to communicate. It's not for me because I am used to these ones, but there should be somewhere. Social media isn't very well structured for that purpose. 

[jamillos]

45 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

If whatever response TB has had towards our previous attempts at civil communication feels like being bitten, then yes, of course people would stop trying. No one likes being bit. But is it really that bad? Some harsh words and arrogance? Are we really this sensitive? I feel like that is what I get thrown my way at an average day on the forums  Maybe I am too stupid to withdraw?

That being said, my communication with TB it have always been civil enough. The problem isn't that, but more a fundamentally different way of seeing things. But again, it must be possible to align such differences through communication. Again, not over night, and not by pushing them away through accusations or "woe be me's". Secondly, as mysteron and downzy have discussed, entering such communication from a platform TB perceive as "the enemy" probably puts you at a significant disadvantage from the get-go. Doing it from the official forum, or directly without coming from any forum (as in my case), might be a lot more effective. And again, just to stress this, my posts in this thread have never been about this forum only but the hardcore fan base in total wherever we are (here, there and everywhere). I could of course post this on Nightrain, but I am not paying money to access that shitty forum just to spread this message. And I am not really active on other social media.

So on the one hand you’ve basically said we should tone it down, because they might pop in occasionally and make conclusions. On the other hand you’re saying that we should use some other platforms than the forum(s) for the communication, because this is their enemy territory anyway. See there’s a contradiction right there for me. If we use some other, private/social/whatever media, then why the heck couldn’t we talk some shit here in the meantime? (After all, that’s what it’s for, right?)

The other thing is, if you’ve been using your own way of communication, why won’t you share the progress with us? Having been asked here, you refused to do so. I don’t understand why. 
Look, we may be on the same side in the sense that I am basically a nice fella who doesn’t like neither violence nor acting like an asshole online. But for me, explaining patiently someone in such position the advantages of online videos for years is not the way to go. They either must have understood it by now, or they’re idiots. It’s not a crime to not understand these basic things, but it’s seriously stupid to be in such position and not know that (and refuse to hire someone who does) and act the way they have. 
If you want us to take you seriously, post your communication progress; otherwise, it’s just nice talk but no results. 

Explaining patiently maybe for years? You’ve gotta be kidding me...

[SoulMonster]

3 minutes ago, Mysteron said:

I think if GNR are going to ignore these forums, they should really develop their own forum so people do have a platform to communicate. It's not for me because I am used to these ones, but there should be somewhere. Social media isn't very well structured for that purpose. 

I think they have kind of tried that with Nightrain, but it was -- in kind words -- poorly executed.

[DieselDaisy]

Nightrain I would say is just their sort of forum. 

[SoulMonster]

1 minute ago, jamillos said:

So on the one hand you’ve basically said we should tone it down, because they might pop in occasionally and make conclusions. On the other hand you’re saying that we should use some other platforms than the forum(s) for the communication, because this is their enemy territory anyway. See there’s a contradiction right there for me.

I wouldn't say it is a contradiction as such, more of a difficulty and one that has become more apparent throughout this thread especially now with downzy's revelations on how bad the situation is between TB and mygnrforum. That being said, and going back to my two-fold suggestion on what to do, I still maintain that the solution to overcoming the conflict is to use whatever back channels we have (and with "we" I am again not talking about only fans here but every hardcore fan anywhere) to communicate with them while at the same time we (again in that inclusive sense) think twice about whether that next ad hominem attack towards them helps the situation or just adds more bricks onto the wall between us.

[SoulMonster]

13 minutes ago, jamillos said:

The other thing is, if you’ve been using your own way of communication, why won’t you share the progress with us? Having been asked here, you refused to do so. I don’t understand why. 

Private conversation is private. Suffice to say I haven't made much progress in the sense that they have announced any change in philosophy or strategy, but that was kinda implied in my posts, wasn't it? But again, I don't think you can change anyone's opinion on such matters quickly. The GN'R organization is a heavy boat with many parts.

Edited November 17, 2019 by SoulMonster

[SoulMonster]

8 minutes ago, jamillos said:

But for me, explaining patiently someone in such position the advantages of online videos for years is not the way to go. They either must have understood it by now, or they’re idiots. It’s not a crime to not understand these basic things, but it’s seriously stupid to be in such position and not know that (and refuse to hire someone who does) and act the way they have. 

It is never too late to understand something. I am kinda old and I learn something new every day. I think there is a possibility to come to some agreement on reality here (whether live videos are a positive or a negative), otherwise I wouldn't have urged people to not give up. It is also a matter of there being absolutely zero downsides to trying (I refuse to accept the "biting hands" analogy) whereas there are so many positives. But again, we each have to weigh the pros and cons and decide what to do. I just thought this thread became so negative and cynical some pages back, and so in conflict with my own experiences, that I wanted to present a more optimistic message. Peace out.

[jamillos]

12 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

It is never too late to understand something. I am kinda old and I learn something new every day. I think there is a possibility to come to some agreement on reality here (whether live videos are a positive or a negative), otherwise I wouldn't have urged people to not give up. It is also a matter of there being absolutely zero downsides to trying (I refuse to accept the "biting hands" analogy) whereas there are so many positives. But again, we each have to weigh the pros and cons and decide what to do. I just thought this thread became so negative and cynical some pages back, and so in conflict with my own experiences, that I wanted to present a more optimistic message. Peace out.

All fine & dandy; like I said, I get where you’re coming from. But just a reminder: Axl is what, fifty seven? I mean, Rock the Rock sounded good, but just how many years do we have left, with his way of singing (or at least the way he used to sing before and during the AC/DC stunt), before someone like Nando goes "Hey, I’ve been acting quite like a douche, now that I think about it. Let’s change shit"...?
Anyway, peace out. 

[Mysteron]

49 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

I think they have kind of tried that with Nightrain, but it was -- in kind words -- poorly executed.

It's all odd. As others have said, once the glitz, glamour and the novelty of the reunion wears off, it'll be them and us again further down the road. It looks as though they have attempted to change the way the fanbase posts, and the thing is, these forums have been around so long that people are not going to change. And with regard to the leaks, it was non forum avenues (social media, reddit, discord etc..) that were more damaging as well.

[allwaystired]

4 hours ago, Mysteron said:

It's all odd. As others have said, once the glitz, glamour and the novelty of the reunion wears off, it'll be them and us again further down the road. It looks as though they have attempted to change the way the fanbase posts, and the thing is, these forums have been around so long that people are not going to change. And with regard to the leaks, it was non forum avenues (social media, reddit, discord etc..) that were more damaging as well.

It's strange that people constantly refer the leaks as 'damaging' - I don't see how they are at all personally. 

Has it made ANYONE who went to the trouble of finding them and listening less likely to buy future product? Or really impacted in any negative way whatsoever? I'd argue that the leaks are actually really positive- they get people excited, they renew interest, and show that some people, somewhere, still care about GNR as a creative vehicle. 

[Mysteron]

2 minutes ago, allwaystired said:

It's strange that people constantly refer the leaks as 'damaging' - I don't see how they are at all personally. 

Has it made ANYONE who went to the trouble of finding them and listening less likely to buy future product? Or really impacted in any negative way whatsoever? I'd argue that the leaks are actually really positive- they get people excited, they renew interest, and show that some people, somewhere, still care about GNR as a creative vehicle. 

I'm just looking at it from their possible perspective. It was more to point out how much more dangerous modern methods of communicating were.

[guitarpatch]

6 hours ago, Mysteron said:

It's all odd. As others have said, once the glitz, glamour and the novelty of the reunion wears off, it'll be them and us again further down the road. It looks as though they have attempted to change the way the fanbase posts, and the thing is, these forums have been around so long that people are not going to change. And with regard to the leaks, it was non forum avenues (social media, reddit, discord etc..) that were more damaging as well.

Or a new release is not really a long term focal point. They’ll do it, milk it, and then pay Izzy/Steven for another go around when things start to slip. Then it’s over/retired for a long stretch 

[downzy]

8 hours ago, SoulMonster said:

So, previous administrators here at mygnrforum interfered with GN'R business? Could you shed more light on this? I immediately think that maybe this could help explain the hostility the management has towards this forum.

We've had a relatively cordial relationship since I took over as owner.  So previous issues had not reflected our communications with them.

But to answer your question, it shouldn't come as big surprise when a former administrator kept pushing a story about clothing restrictions that ultimately had to be rectified by Axl himself.

6 hours ago, Mysteron said:

And with regard to the leaks, it was non forum avenues (social media, reddit, discord etc..) that were more damaging as well.

Thank you.  You would think this would be clearly evident to anyone paying attention.

[Pele]

8 hours ago, Mysteron said:

I think if GNR are going to ignore these forums, they should really develop their own forum so people do have a platform to communicate. It's not for me because I am used to these ones, but there should be somewhere. Social media isn't very well structured for that purpose. 

They did, with Paradise City and Nightrain.

Problem is, the artist formerly known as 'Warchild' signs up and is allowed to post, meaning immediate disharmony.

[Ratam]

Maybe i't have the wrong impression, but i feel for first time that  @downzy feel bit disappoint about TB, is like he triyng the best to reach good relationship with them, but he find TB are an wall impossible of to penetrate.

[Azifwekare]

34 minutes ago, Pele said:

They did, with Paradise City and Nightrain.

Problem is, the artist formerly known as 'Warchild' signs up and is allowed to post, meaning immediate disharmony.

This idea might be a bit wild, but one way of fixing this would be if TB, like... didn't let him do that?

I don't manage a major multi-million dollar artist though, so I could be wrong.

17 minutes ago, Ratam said:

Maybe i't have the wrong impression, but i feel for first time that  @downzy feel bit disappoint about TB, is like he triyng the best to reach good relationship with them, but he find TB are an wall impossible of to penetrate.

The only thing that has been penetrated in any way in all this has been the fans.

[cineater]

14 hours ago, SoulMonster said:

That live videos make fans happy and leads to promotion for a band that in return leads to new fans and interest in live shows, is self-evident, don't you think? 

Again, not being a bitch but no I don't think that is true for every band.  That's why I asked if you had any research or data facts.  Somebody has that research.

[Ratam]

5 hours ago, Azifwekare said:

This idea might be a bit wild, but one way of fixing this would be if TB, like... didn't let him do that?

I don't manage a major multi-million dollar artist though, so I could be wrong.

The only thing that has been penetrated in any way in all this has been the fans.

Seriously, i'm always look to Dowzny as very positive about TB. This is the first time he sound a bit  to disappoint.

[DieselDaisy]

6 hours ago, cineater said:

Again, not being a bitch but no I don't think that is true for every band.  That's why I asked if you had any research or data facts.  Somebody has that research.

Are you seriously arguing that an abundance of accessible live material could be construed as a bad thing? Really?

Edited November 18, 2019 by DieselDaisy

[allwaystired]

7 hours ago, DieselDaisy said:

Are you seriously arguing that an abundance of accessible live material could be construed as a bad thing? Really?

The only way that could possibly be the case is if there was an abundance of accessible live material commercially available....which of course there isn't. 

There's only so many times you can watch the 'UYI Live in Tokypo' or 'Appetite For Democracy' DVDs (I'll get in here with the inevitable 'zero' jokes for AFD- personally I quite enjoy it though!) before you lose interest. There absolutely HAS to be something to keep fan interest alive. 

[DieselDaisy]

1 minute ago, allwaystired said:

The only way that could possibly be the case is if there was an abundance of accessible live material commercially available....which of course there isn't. 

There's only so many times you can watch the 'UYI Live in Tokypo' or 'Appetite For Democracy' DVDs (I'll get in here with the inevitable 'zero' jokes for AFD- personally I quite enjoy it though!) before you lose interest. There absolutely HAS to be something to keep fan interest alive. 

I am repeating myself here but bootlegs - this is back in the good old days of VHS trading - undoubtedly pushed my fandom to far greater levels than it would have been with merely the studio albums. Guns were one of the best rock n' roll bands that has ever existed during their heyday, 1986-93, and only really by watching stuff like the Ritz 88 and the Deer Creek one can you truly appreciate that (unless somebody invents a time machine).

[allwaystired]

2 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

I am repeating myself here but bootlegs - this is back in the good old days of VHS trading - undoubtedly pushed my fandom to far greater levels than it would have been with merely the studio albums. Guns were one of the best rock n' roll bands that has ever existed during their heyday, 1986-93, and only really by watching stuff like the Ritz 88 and the Deer Creek one can you truly appreciate that (unless somebody invents a time machine).

Absolutely. Why those shows aren't available in an official capacity is madness. To not only refuse to monetize interest in them but to actually restrict access to them for the most enthusiastic aspects of the fanbase makes no sense. It baffles me why it seems preferable to let them rot than to use them. 

[jamillos]

... especially considering there are better shows/videos than Tokyo, as cool as it is. 

[DTJ80]

1 hour ago, DieselDaisy said:

I am repeating myself here but bootlegs - this is back in the good old days of VHS trading - undoubtedly pushed my fandom to far greater levels than it would have been with merely the studio albums. Guns were one of the best rock n' roll bands that has ever existed during their heyday, 1986-93, and only really by watching stuff like the Ritz 88 and the Deer Creek one can you truly appreciate that (unless somebody invents a time machine).

Is the Deer Creek one of good quality - don’t think I have seen any footage of that?