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11 minutes ago, Rovim said:

Not just silly. Nirvana made Gn'R uncool, but only to some as Guns were still playing stadiums after Nirvana achieved real success. Gn'R had already established a huge fan base and a lot of fans in different countries were not automatically and suddenly bored or had moved on from the more classic and indulgent Hard Rock Gn'R were delivering.

They were still loved by many and it never really went away which is cool. There was anticipation for the follow up to UYI, even though a new scene had emerged and Gn'R was not a part of it. Then again, Metallica wasn't a part of it either and I think it's a good example cause Nirvana was more punk rock and not really geared towards the more traditional Rock/Metal bands with a big solo in almost every tune.

Alice In Chains was considered "grunge" but they were more similar to Guns than they were to Nirvana. Black Sabbath is what connects them all together anyway (Nirvana's Bleach, AIC, half of Soundgarden's sound, and Metallica to a certain extent)

Chris Novoselic said in 2009 Faith No More and Jane's Addiction paved the way for Nirvana. Mike Patton didn't think there was anything revolutionary in what Nirvana did musically.

There was a couple of bands that really influenced Kurt and that style, Meat Puppets etc. etc. On the surface, within a vacuum, stuff like the ballads, music videos, insane behavior, i'm sure it looked a bit like a big spectacle; maybe not like the Glam bands, but GN'R definitely looked like it lost its edge with the Illusion albums. I think that's why we need more live material, especially from '91 and '93.. We and the general public are being robbed of great performances. I keep trying to get my hard-rock and metal friends into GN'R, and it's so hard when Live Era and the tokyo show is the best we can do...

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3 minutes ago, UsedYourIllusion said:

There was a couple of bands that really influenced Kurt and that style, Meat Puppets etc. etc. On the surface, within a vacuum, stuff like the ballads, music videos, insane behavior, i'm sure it looked a bit like a big spectacle; maybe not like the Glam bands, but GN'R definitely looked like it lost its edge with the Illusion albums. I think that's why we need more live material, especially from '91 and '93.. We and the general public are being robbed of great performances. I keep trying to get my hard-rock and metal friends into GN'R, and it's so hard when Live Era and the tokyo show is the best we can do...

The Pixies, Sonic Youth, Butthole Surfers, Black Sabbath, Sex Pistols, The Beatles. Nirvana was an interesting blend for sure. The music sounds like surf music like the Pixies with pretty melodies from The Beatles but nasty like The Pistols and Sabbath earlier on. It wasn't as original as some people seem to think it was imo. Nirvana was also retro in a way which is ironic considering how they are viewed by many but more original than Gn'R was. Cobain was one of a kind.

the way Gn'R chooses to manage their content is very strict. I'm not a fan of it, I don't think it's an especially smart strategy but they seem to want to control the content as much as possible. It sucks for us fans. For example I can't watch Madagascar from Budapest 2006 on youtube anymore. Fucked up shit.

If I try to look at it from the band's perspective I can maybe say they are planning to do something in the future which will cost money, some kind of service or release of live shows but with this band anything is possible: they can just do it cause they don't like the idea people are watching shows for free on youtube and they have no plans to do anything with it in the near future (next decade or so)

Use Your Lubrication.

 

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Nirvana could have been way more successful that what they already achieved. If Cobain could have got a handle on his 'habit' & mental health, got away from Courtney, Nirvana actually doing a complete full tour...it would have been interesting what else they could have come up with. Honestly AIC gets very little credit anywhere with regards to grunge in general and I think there sound was the closet to it. 'Facelift' for me kick started the era.

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1 hour ago, Rovim said:

The Pixies, Sonic Youth, Butthole Surfers, Black Sabbath, Sex Pistols, The Beatles. Nirvana was an interesting blend for sure. The music sounds like surf music like the Pixies with pretty melodies from The Beatles but nasty like The Pistols and Sabbath earlier on. It wasn't as original as some people seem to think it was imo. Nirvana was also retro in a way which is ironic considering how they are viewed by many but more original than Gn'R was. Cobain was one of a kind.

the way Gn'R chooses to manage their content is very strict. I'm not a fan of it, I don't think it's an especially smart strategy but they seem to want to control the content as much as possible. It sucks for us fans. For example I can't watch Madagascar from Budapest 2006 on youtube anymore. Fucked up shit.

If I try to look at it from the band's perspective I can maybe say they are planning to do something in the future which will cost money, some kind of service or release of live shows but with this band anything is possible: they can just do it cause they don't like the idea people are watching shows for free on youtube and they have no plans to do anything with it in the near future (next decade or so)

Use Your Lubrication.

 

Which in itself is almost censorship and this was something they were dead against during tthe illusion release. Then again they were asking for all interviews to be proof read by xl/slash before the interviews went to print :lol:

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3 hours ago, Rovim said:

Mike Patton didn't think there was anything revolutionary in what Nirvana did musically.

There wasn't, but they were the first band like that to reach mainstream success. But there had been many bands like Nirvana in the 80's that were making records before Nirvana was even around. But what set Nirvana apart was Kurt's voice and how simplistic their music was.

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6 hours ago, rocknroll41 said:

Yeah, another personal issue with UYI that Axl probably has is the fact that it was around the same time that GnR were starting to seem like a joke in the wake of Kurt Cobain and grunge and all that. I once read that “Nirvana did to GnR what GnR did to all of the glam and hair metal bands... made them look silly...”

Yep. Sure that’s part of it. Seemed like such a big deal at the time, and sort of sent the UYI-era out with an aura of “failure” or un-coolness.

Looking back though- I think they merely slipped from being unquestioned “king of the hill”- to a Top 5/Top 10 band- particularly once international markets were taken into consideration (as was mentioned). Also strikes me how “quick” the grunge thing came and went. I remember sitting around with friends in our college dorm the day No Code came out (1996)... and all of us being like... “ummm.... ok. So what’s next?” (which is no knock on No Code- some decent stuff there- but not the head bangin’, arena rockin’, even your girlfriends would like, etc. type music that had been coming out of Seattle...).

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I don't care! Just please release the UYI Slash version (without the synths and straight rock n roll version) and please record a decent 2021 version of "Crash Diet", "Just Another Sunday" and "Bring it Back Home".

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Posted (edited)
50 minutes ago, Legendador said:

I don't care! Just please release the UYI Slash version (without the synths and straight rock n roll version) and please record a decent 2021 version of "Crash Diet", "Just Another Sunday" and "Bring it Back Home".

I’d also be down for updated takes on Too Much Too Soon, and maybe even Sentimental Movie.... Probably not It Tastes Good, Don’t It...

if they really do ever do a reissue of UYI, I’d hope they include The Rumbo Tapes in full, actually. I really like those versions of The Garden, Don’t Cry, Yesterdays, Bad Obsession, and Back Off, Bitch.

Edited by rocknroll41
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18 hours ago, Basic_GnR_Fan said:

Which overdubs are you referring to?

The spoken word in KOHD, The Spoken word outro of breakdown is terrible in an otherwise perfect song, 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8, the whisper and sighs in Don't Cry.. Things like that.. Some of Axl's layered vocals are a bit much too... 

17 hours ago, Ant said:

That weird sound effect on Garden of Eden. The breaking eggshell on Dead Horse. Maybe that speech at the end of Breakdown. 

Yes the Garden Of Eden noises as well... I believe they are using a Nutcracker in Dead Horse...

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7 hours ago, Rovim said:

Not just silly. Nirvana made Gn'R uncool

Nirvana made Axl seem uncool... Which he was legitimately becoming at the time...

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4 hours ago, EvanG said:

There wasn't, but they were the first band like that to reach mainstream success. But there had been many bands like Nirvana in the 80's that were making records before Nirvana was even around. But what set Nirvana apart was Kurt's voice and how simplistic their music was.

You don’t even have to look far in the GNR world to see that. Tommy Stinson and The Replacements were a big part of that influence which Nirvana built upon. Always on the cusp of breaking through before tripping over their own feet. 

On a mainstream level, Appetite is really the connection between the lack of substance in the pop metal scene and the turn to Nirvana/grunge in the early 90’s. People wanted a bit more depth than just having a good time. It just needed to be presented better and more relatable than those bands beforehand to hit that stride. 

GNR were rockstars. That’s why they were looked upon and presented in that light at the time. Nirvana wanted to knock them off the perch and it’s easier to punch up than punching down.

Thing is what happens when you’ve then reached the top? I don’t think Kurt or Axl really expected what that experience came with or handled it well. Few can. 

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Posted (edited)

Thing is what happens when you’ve then reached the top? I don’t think Kurt or Axl really expected what that experience came with or handled it well. Few can. 

Agree with that. When you reach the top.of popularity some have a plan on what the music should sound  next. This is i think where gnr become unstuck, they didnt know what to do next. Nirvana on the other hand i think just became unpopular because there were many other bands waiting in the wings with better sounding music. Music post 94 was changing rapidly from grunge to indi to alternative to heavier and then nu-metal.

Here in oz, when pantera released far beyond driven in 94 it immediately went to number1. No other metal band had done that, so by 94 the musical landscape was changing .  Nirvanas inutero and insecticide album reviews were getting 3 out of 5, not the 5/5 like nevermind. The only grunge bands i think that were remaining popular post 94 was AIC, STP and soundgarden.

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2 minutes ago, guitarpatch said:

You don’t even have to look far in the GNR world to see that. Tommy Stinson and The Replacements were a big part of that influence which Nirvana built upon. Always on the cusp of breaking through before tripping over their own feet. 

There are too many to mention, but since you've mentioned The Replacements, other bands from Minneapolis like Hüsker Dü and Soul Asylum were doing the same thing... mixing punk and hardrock influences over poppy melodies, and they might have been popular in the underground scene, but they never made it big. Well, Soul Asylum briefly did in the 90's, but that was already after Nirvana exploded onto the scene.

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29 minutes ago, Tom-Ass said:

Nirvana made Axl seem uncool... Which he was legitimately becoming at the time...

The costume changes, late starts and riots wernt helping.

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Posted (edited)

Well, I'm gonna play this game and dream on. 

1991: December 16 Shows from Philadelphia's The Spectrum
1992: April 1st Show from Mexico's Palacio de los Deportes
1993: January 15 Show from Tokyo Dome. 

As alternatives, I'd like to see a warm-up show from the spring of 91' and of course an Inglewood show from August 3rd in full quality. 

Extras? Won't bother myself with that - all these posters, images amd merch are made/printed for nothing and cost too much. All I need is videos/pro-shots/live cocnerts. Maybe, demos and outtakes would be nice, but only for some "hardcore" edition, as are not essential after all. 

Edited by nikothebellic
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45 minutes ago, nikothebellic said:

Well, I'm gonna play this game and dream on. 

1991: December 16 Shows from Philadelphia's The Spectrum
1992: April 1st Show from Mexico's Palacio de los Deportes
1993: January 15 Show from Tokyo Dome. 

As alternatives, I'd like to see a warm-up show from the spring of 91' and of course an Inglewood show from August 3rd in full quality. 

Extras? Won't bother myself with that - all these posters, images amd merch are made/printed for nothing and cost too much. All I need is videos/pro-shots/live cocnerts. Maybe, demos and outtakes would be nice, but only for some "hardcore" edition, as are not essential after all. 

Oh man....I would take alllllll of that.

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5 hours ago, rocknroll41 said:

I’d also be down for updated takes on Too Much Too Soon, and maybe even Sentimental Movie.... Probably not It Tastes Good, Don’t It...

if they really do ever do a reissue of UYI, I’d hope they include The Rumbo Tapes in full, actually. I really like those versions of The Garden, Don’t Cry, Yesterdays, Bad Obsession, and Back Off, Bitch.

There's also the Locomotive version with Steven Adler on drums (starting with the bass line), which is amazing.

I did had a 2 CD bootled named "Coverin'" with more than 60 covers they performed during the Illusions tour, that would be a great package to celebrate the 30th issue of the TSI.

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Throw in the Spaghetti sessions. Like they did with Appeite + Lies.

Oh and maybe Back and Forth Again & the early piano sketch of TIL would be cool, even though that's more '94 ish..

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Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, EvanG said:

There wasn't, but they were the first band like that to reach mainstream success. But there had been many bands like Nirvana in the 80's that were making records before Nirvana was even around. But what set Nirvana apart was Kurt's voice and how simplistic their music was.

It wasn't more simplistic compared to other punk bands that came before it. Perhaps a better word to describe it would be catchy. It had a more pop element like The Beatles. Even on Bleach you had "About A Girl". The mainstream production of Nevermind didn't hurt either. Cobain's charisma and expressive voice sealed the deal.

Edited by Rovim

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, Tom-Ass said:

Nirvana made Axl seem uncool... Which he was legitimately becoming at the time...

Depends on how you define cool. I meant the image and the music of the band as a whole. Slash's leather pants and what not. Long and intricate Zeppelin influenced guitar solos. The bloat of UYI. It wasn't just about Axl. It was the rejection of bands that were the offspring of 70's classic rock, the sex, drugs, and rock n' roll bands. Gn'R was the top band at the time from that family tree, maybe the last of it's kind. They epitomized everything Nirvana wasn't.

Nirvana was seen as the new thing, the modern band which was considered the coolest by a large portion of music consumers but as I said earlier a lot of people still liked Gn'R just like they still liked AC/DC and Zeppelin or Queen.

I think Slash had no problem accepting his place and the band's place in music. It was a Hard Rock band. He said Axl wanted to be Pearl Jam as you probably know and Slash said he didn't even like Pearl Jam. Axl was desperate. He wanted to be like Nirvana, Faith No More, Pearl Jam, and Nine Inch Nails. The next thing. I think he thought Gn'R could somehow absorb new influences and become more relevant or relevant again and Slash would have loved it if they went back to a more Appetite style approach, reusing their formula like AC/DC. No wonder it didn't work out.

The outcome years later wasn't surprising in retrospect: Chinese Democracy came out, had some Guns elements, some 70's influences, and some 90's influences. Axl successfully managed to combine the old with the less old that he liked, filtered through the Gn'R approach made from the finest ingredients he could find. (Bucket, Tommy, Robin, Brain, Andy Wallace, RTB) while Slash mainly stayed in his comfort zone, recycling the formula that has always served him well.

Ironically, Slash formed Velvet Revolver with Scott which the critics were always shitting on pointing out the similarities to Eddie Vedder, labeling STP as a rip off Pearl Jam wannabees.

Edited by Rovim
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3 hours ago, nikothebellic said:

Well, I'm gonna play this game and dream on. 

1991: December 16 Shows from Philadelphia's The Spectrum
1992: April 1st Show from Mexico's Palacio de los Deportes
1993: January 15 Show from Tokyo Dome. 

As alternatives, I'd like to see a warm-up show from the spring of 91' and of course an Inglewood show from August 3rd in full quality. 

Extras? Won't bother myself with that - all these posters, images amd merch are made/printed for nothing and cost too much. All I need is videos/pro-shots/live cocnerts. Maybe, demos and outtakes would be nice, but only for some "hardcore" edition, as are not essential after all. 

For me it’s the other way around. I have zero interest in (audio) live shows but do love demos and alternate takes of my favorite songs. I love to see how songs have evolved and progressed. 

Pro shots are awesome, of course. 

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13 hours ago, UsedYourIllusion said:

There was a couple of bands that really influenced Kurt and that style, Meat Puppets etc. etc. On the surface, within a vacuum, stuff like the ballads, music videos, insane behavior, i'm sure it looked a bit like a big spectacle; maybe not like the Glam bands, but GN'R definitely looked like it lost its edge with the Illusion albums. I think that's why we need more live material, especially from '91 and '93.. We and the general public are being robbed of great performances. I keep trying to get my hard-rock and metal friends into GN'R, and it's so hard when Live Era and the tokyo show is the best we can do...

Yeah all the good stuff is gone from YouTube. Can't watch it anymore.

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1 hour ago, Shackler's said:

Throw in the Spaghetti sessions. Like they did with Appeite + Lies.

Oh and maybe Back and Forth Again & the early piano sketch of TIL would be cool, even though that's more '94 ish..

The ChiDem engineer from the late 90s said that Axl forced them to erase the 1994 tape of TIL, so that one is out of the equation.

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6 hours ago, Tom-Ass said:

 I believe they are using a Nutcracker in Dead Horse...

I always thought that it was a sound of a cassette being put into a cassette player.

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40 minutes ago, AslatIE said:

I always thought that it was a sound of a cassette being put into a cassette player.

100% it's nutcrackers, it's been mentioned in articles before

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