Fernando's answer *UK SUBS post PG19*

[RussTCB]

I appreciate you saying that, I'm just trying to help out

In all honesty, no. Not without MAJOR changes to the band and its management.

Middle ground on what? Them telling us nothing and us doing what? Them telling us they have nothing planned and us doing what? Them calling us racists and haters and us doing what? Them putting out a subpar product show after show and us doing what? Beta telling us we complain too much if we want new music and us doing what? It is not our job to make Axl and Team Brazil feel warm and fuzzy about themselves, especially when they've turned GNR into what it is now: a complete and utter joke.

I'm saying a middle ground between fans expressing their opinions without resorting to personal attacks, hate and racism.

Based on my observations, with the exception of ER, not one of you can be trusted to adequately identify "personal attacks," "hate" or "racism," so no, I don't think there's middle ground to be had there either.

Huh? Are you suggesting you need me or the other mods here to set a definition of those things for you?

[Randy Lahey]

I appreciate you saying that, I'm just trying to help out

In all honesty, no. Not without MAJOR changes to the band and its management.

Middle ground on what? Them telling us nothing and us doing what? Them telling us they have nothing planned and us doing what? Them calling us racists and haters and us doing what? Them putting out a subpar product show after show and us doing what? Beta telling us we complain too much if we want new music and us doing what? It is not our job to make Axl and Team Brazil feel warm and fuzzy about themselves, especially when they've turned GNR into what it is now: a complete and utter joke.

I'm saying a middle ground between fans expressing their opinions without resorting to personal attacks, hate and racism.

I take it you never read Axl's letter to Madison? Volatile band and volatile fans. It's at the point where only a new album or a reunion is going to make any of the forum fans happy.

Oh I'm very aware of the Axl/Madison issue but you're not suggesting that to be the reason for personal attacks and insults right?

I'm just saying it is a two way street of dreams.

[magisme]

I appreciate you saying that, I'm just trying to help out

In all honesty, no. Not without MAJOR changes to the band and its management.

Middle ground on what? Them telling us nothing and us doing what? Them telling us they have nothing planned and us doing what? Them calling us racists and haters and us doing what? Them putting out a subpar product show after show and us doing what? Beta telling us we complain too much if we want new music and us doing what? It is not our job to make Axl and Team Brazil feel warm and fuzzy about themselves, especially when they've turned GNR into what it is now: a complete and utter joke.

I'm saying a middle ground between fans expressing their opinions without resorting to personal attacks, hate and racism.

Based on my observations, with the exception of ER, not one of you can be trusted to adequately identify "personal attacks," "hate" or "racism," so no, I don't think there's middle ground to be had there either.

Huh? Are you suggesting you need me or the other mods here to set a definition of those things for you?

No. I'm saying your definitions, based on the way you've moderated, are bogus. I don't need you to to do anything for me.

[Gia]

ouch

[RussTCB]

I appreciate you saying that, I'm just trying to help out

In all honesty, no. Not without MAJOR changes to the band and its management.

Middle ground on what? Them telling us nothing and us doing what? Them telling us they have nothing planned and us doing what? Them calling us racists and haters and us doing what? Them putting out a subpar product show after show and us doing what? Beta telling us we complain too much if we want new music and us doing what? It is not our job to make Axl and Team Brazil feel warm and fuzzy about themselves, especially when they've turned GNR into what it is now: a complete and utter joke.

I'm saying a middle ground between fans expressing their opinions without resorting to personal attacks, hate and racism.

Based on my observations, with the exception of ER, not one of you can be trusted to adequately identify "personal attacks," "hate" or "racism," so no, I don't think there's middle ground to be had there either.

Huh? Are you suggesting you need me or the other mods here to set a definition of those things for you?

No. I'm saying your definitions, based on the way you've moderated, are bogus. I don't need you to to do anything for me.

I have no idea how one could know my personal definition of "hate, personal insults and racism" based on my moderation here.

[vaida]

Awwwww

your sig is oversized and breaks MyGnr sig rules. Just saying.

[The Linguini Occurrence]

Anyone claiming that racist remarks and insults are hurled toward Team Brazil on a regular basis is absolutely lying to themselves. Is is the majority of posters? No. But it does happen and it happens a lot.

This post is confusing as hell to me. The first sentence is saying the racist remarks and insults are not hurled on a regular basis, and the last sentence is saying it happens a lot.

Russ, do you think it happens a lot or not? BTW this is my first opportunity to say welcome to the forum

[ManetsBR]

Awwwww

your sig is oversized and breaks MyGnr sig rules. Just saying.

Sig police?

[username]

So he still didn't answer that letter. Extremely pointless answer.

If he really spent 2 hours on "other more active forums" (which I'm assuming would include MyGNR) he'd realize there's not as much hate as he thinks.

I outlined this in another really long post, but I'll briefly restate it: that's the problem with those of you (and there are only a few) who just bash Fernando or Beta for the easy reasons: deriding them for being house maids, Brazilian, whatever. You guys make it way too easy for them to ignore VALID criticisms (their handling and apparent mismanagement of the band, for example) and just lump it all together as "hate."

I truly wish people didn't ever cupcake them and make fun of them in racist or sexist ways or even just bash them for their history, because it reduces the level of discourse and if I were in their shoes I'd probably have the same reaction and just lump it all together. No one wants to be reading stuff about themselves like that.

However I do think there are valid questions, criticisms and concerns that they could take an opportunity to address, and I think it's kind of ignorant of Fernando to imply that ALL of our members are spewing hate. You can't write off a whole fanbase like that, and the truth is that we moderate D&N to the extent that those kinds of hateful posts aren't allowed, so unless he spent 2 hours in the Attitude subforum I'm not sure where he's getting this idea from.

I'm not sure there's a distinction between (fair) criticism and hate in Fernando's world though.

Edited August 26, 2013 by username

[guitarpatch]

Instead of always being negative about the negativity on mygnr, couldn't they be positive about all the positivity on httgth or paradise city?

Probably the best way to handle at this point. Man these guys need to learn some PR... Honestly, if you can't relatively handle a band's fan base and fan forums, then you may want to question how you could possibly work with the complex egos, situations, and nitwits that run around the music business.

[username]

Instead of always being negative about the negativity on mygnr, couldn't they be positive about all the positivity on httgth or paradise city?

Or create a reason for positivity. Just thinking out of the box here, you know.

[Gia]

He could've just answered the questions

[Aninha_Hudson]

Instead of always being negative about the negativity on mygnr, couldn't they be positive about all the positivity on httgth or paradise city?

Or create a reason for positivity. Just thinking out of the box here, you know.

Great posts.

[frozen_rose]

Instead of always being negative about the negativity on mygnr, couldn't they be positive about all the positivity on httgth or paradise city?

Probably the best way to handle at this point. Man these guys need to learn some PR... Honestly, if you can't relatively handle a band's fan base and fan forums, then you may want to question how you could possibly work with the complex egos, situations, and nitwits that run around the music business.

Or just let Slash handle the PR for them. He always did a great job with radio interviews, etc.

[Tom2112]

I think he's mistaking passion for anger. We just want a simple answer, a date, some communication that our favourite band is in fact playing together and preparing a new album. We love and support the band but... everything has its limits. I for one cannot support a band that isn't forging forward creatively.

2 outcomes of further delays with at least starting a new record 1: band members start to leave... bumbles been itching to make a record for ever, I wouldn't blame him for jumping ship if he got a good offer. 2 the fans lose total interest and it causes more of a backlash... that means the shows don't sell out, less money, effectively shooting yourself in the foot.

I want to support the band, but I have to feel as though we're appreciated for that to continue. The band has to really get it's PR together because it seems like they haven't a clue about their fan-base. To think that your hardcore fans are your enemies is ridiculous, We love GnR, we want the best from them and for them, we have no problem with GnR associates we just want to communicated with and treated with respect.

[RussTCB]

Completely mistake, sorry for the confusion. I meant to say that anyone saying it DOESN'T happen is kidding themselves.

And thank you for the welcome!

Anyone claiming that racist remarks and insults are hurled toward Team Brazil on a regular basis is absolutely lying to themselves. Is is the majority of posters? No. But it does happen and it happens a lot.

This post is confusing as hell to me. The first sentence is saying the racist remarks and insults are not hurled on a regular basis, and the last sentence is saying it happens a lot.

Russ, do you think it happens a lot or not? BTW this is my first opportunity to say welcome to the forum

[Aninha_Hudson]

As you can see I'm more of a Slash fan than Axl's but it's impossible not to follow all these recent events. I'd love to see Axl back in shape, releasing music and being more relevant as an artist, instead of a Elvis-like performer. My love for Slash's music doesn't make me a hater.

Some posters nailed it saying how this situation could've been avoided kinda easily. This community will be mildly interested in social network websites, beach towels and GH-tours because people here are the ones who know who's in the band and are interested in Axl's vision or trilogy or whatever he had planned until some time ago.

So you're gonna have complaints (complaints, complaints...). They are doing cool stuff here and there, but after waiting 15 years for CD, TB has to understand people are more interested in new music than anything else.

The lack of music is a problem and so is the lack of communication. Axl won't visit his forum again and I really believe his access to the internet is controlled. The band members are clueless about the future of the band, that leaves the responsibility to Team Brazil.

How do they act? They post generic stuff for social network fans and that's it. They won't answer simple questions and want the message boards censored. And they want to end negativity?

Give me a break... They want the community to be more positive by doing nothing on their part. They should be the ones finding ways to have a better relationship with their fans, not the other way around.

Posters like SoulMonster who think people are dying to hear new music, or have a sense of entitlement, or an agenda should really avoid posting stuff like that, they sound really stupid.

I think it's very clear nobody hear is losing sleep after this or are demanding, or think Axl owe them something. People are just frustrated, if they post extreme stuff that you believe it's real, you are very naive, or just a cupcake. I think this community, after the latest adjustments is very healthy and truthfully represents the real GNR fanbase.

If some posters don't like it, they should create their own boards.

If TB doesn't like it, they should find a way to change this. They are all into spiritual stuff but they don't look in peace with themselves. They look and sound very insecure when they have to deal with reality. I feel bad for them.

Good day y'all.

[Naupis]

Oh I'm very aware of the Axl/Madison issue but you're not suggesting that to be the reason for personal attacks and insults right?

No one is saying that.

However, it sets the tone for how the band thinks one should communicate grievances they may have with the other side.

In Axl's world, if your pissed off about something/someone throw intelligent discussion out the window and just start personally attacking.

Is it any surprise that the fan base responds in kind when they have issues with the band/management.

[Tom2112]

The funny thing is this forum is probably the best place for the GnR team to find out about their fans. We're not kissing their asses, we tell it how it is... they get way too much fan worship this should be a blast of fresh air for them. Other forums make me dry heave "Dj's a dream, such a nice guy" true he's a nice guy but what does that have to do with music? "Axls voice is better than ever, I can't understand the fan criticism" well, his voice is not better than ever, it's not that bad (as I've stated before he seems to be putting a lot more effort in recently) but, I guarantee that Axl would agree that he isn't firing on all cylinders, if he was to listen back on a lot of the live recordings.

I don't agree with the hating or racism, you can argue a point without sinking so low as to use racial slurs or blatant character attacks.

I hold out hope that someone on the GnR team is reading our posts (every once in a while at least) and can decipher between the morons and the ones that actually care and want the best from our favourite band.

[Facekicker]

Completely mistake, sorry for the confusion. I meant to say that anyone saying it DOESN'T happen is kidding themselves.

And thank you for the welcome!

Anyone claiming that racist remarks and insults are hurled toward Team Brazil on a regular basis is absolutely lying to themselves. Is is the majority of posters? No. But it does happen and it happens a lot.

So what are these racist remarks? Given that racist remarks are not welcome here can you tell me what Fernando is talking about?

Edited August 26, 2013 by Facekicker

[WhazUp]

Well all in all there is a reason why forums like mygnr are more active.... WAY more active actually. HTGTH isn't just merely a congregation of "positive fans" it is a forum that is censored so that a lot of people who want to voice their honest opinions can't even do so there

I get that racist comments are a bit too far (although to be honest I can't really think of too many examples of this actually occuring) but here is where you get a truer more up front look at people's opinions for better or worse. And the fact that the uncensored opinions here are critical is telling that it isn't all unwarranted.

It doesn't take much thinking to know why this critism is popping up, and unfortuntely it seems that Team Brazil and GNR's actions won't lend itself to a change in negativity here

[Ali]

So he still didn't answer that letter. Extremely pointless answer.

If he really spent 2 hours on "other more active forums" (which I'm assuming would include MyGNR) he'd realize there's not as much hate as he thinks.

I outlined this in another really long post, but I'll briefly restate it: that's the problem with those of you (and there are only a few) who just bash Fernando or Beta for the easy reasons: deriding them for being house maids, Brazilian, whatever. You guys make it way too easy for them to ignore VALID criticisms (their handling and apparent mismanagement of the band, for example) and just lump it all together as "hate."

I truly wish people didn't ever cupcake them and make fun of them in racist or sexist ways or even just bash them for their history, because it reduces the level of discourse and if I were in their shoes I'd probably have the same reaction and just lump it all together. No one wants to be reading stuff about themselves like that.

However I do think there are valid questions, criticisms and concerns that they could take an opportunity to address, and I think it's kind of ignorant of Fernando to imply that ALL of our members are spewing hate. You can't write off a whole fanbase like that, and the truth is that we moderate D&N to the extent that those kinds of hateful posts aren't allowed, so unless he spent 2 hours in the Attitude subforum I'm not sure where he's getting this idea from.

With all due respect, while I've certainly noticed in increased crackdown on the insults being hurled back and forth, that is a more recent initiative and due to the fact that there isn't always a mod available to monitor the forum, one which cannot be upheld all the time. Which, is not to say that hate has been permitted in the past. But, at times, like in the case of the last time BBF came to chat, there was a lot of unnecessary hostility being directed towards him for quite a while during a time when no mod happened to be online. I understand it was just one of those scenarios when no one was present and available at the time, but by the time the cleaning-up of the thread happened, the damage may have already been done.

You can't un-ring the bell, so to speak.

The unfortunate thing is that you're right, while it isn't the majority of the posters here who hurl insults towards the management team, for whatever reason, the insults that do come out may tend to stick out like a sore thumb. Like you said, when there are insults that stick out like a sore thumb, it does make it much easier just to disregard everything that's said here.

I don't know what the solution is, but there is something that can be done on both sides to make things like band member chats happen sometime again in the future.

Ali

[axlsalinger]

It's almost like Fernando stumbled out of an episode of Leave it to Beaver and onto the forums ... "Golly gee, Wally, it sure is negative in here". I mean, are they just figuring out now what happens on internet message boards? If so, I can assure him that the internet contains a lot of people spewing negative bile. You can spend your entire life walking the streets trying to erase every "Fuck you" you see written on walls ... but you ain't never gonna get it all cleaned up.

I also noticed he didn't answer the question.

In truth, I get a little tired of the insults and I understand it's hard to remain neutral when it's your friends and family getting criticized. Unfortunately it's a fact of life if you're in the public eye, and you're going to have to get used to it. The good news is you make a lot of money so at least you can pay for therapy.

The bottom line here: this is a band that was torn apart so that the singer could continue the name, and he proceeded to release one album in 20 years. All the while lording a bunch of unreleased "big guns" over our heads. FIVE FUCKING YEARS of nothing, after finally releasing Chinese Democracy.

You tell me why there's any reason to be positive when it comes to this band.

[Randy Lahey]

The bottom line here: this is a band that was torn apart so that the singer could continue the name, and he proceeded to release one album in 20 years. All the while lording a bunch of unreleased "big guns" over our heads. FIVE FUCKING YEARS of nothing, after finally releasing Chinese Democracy.

You tell me why there's any reason to be positive when it comes to this band.

[GNR123GNR456]

I swear, these people think that were this evil entity that's out to get them. We're all on the same boat, not Fernando's boat, but the one that includes wanting new music and wanting what's best for GN'R. It's kind of hard to be positive when management team is now writing long nonsensical letter's like Axl, blaming all the negativity to the fans but not realizing what's right infront of them. Like, for example Rock In Rio 2011, the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, the Neil Young show, the constant touring with similar set-lists, the unprofessionalism by the management ("complaint's, complaint's, complaint's") What's there to be positive about what it doesn't seem like Axl even cares anymore about the new band, and is happy on touring the world as a nostalgia act while member's of HIS OWN BAND are seemingly becoming frustrated and eager to write new music.

We're not negative, atleast I'm not. I'm just getting tired of seeing Axl being a laughing stock and not trying to be the very best he can be. Just three years ago, he was in great shape and sounded fantastic. He has full power and rasp, and was belting out song's like it was 1991. Now, he's seemingly just going with the motion's, like it's his job to tour instead of having a passion for it. Like he's happy playing in bowling alley's and small theater's, instead of playing big arena's and fans paying to see the whole band, not just him and hear the song's from 1991.

It's not negativity, it's being realistic. It's noticing what's happening and being able to realize it. As long as Axl and his management are against the fans, the longer we will continue to speak out against GN'R. We all just want new music, we all want Axl to be the very best he can be, we all want this band to succeed and be the biggest band in the world again. Don't let the negativity full you Team Brazil, we all want GN'R to succeed. It's just that by touring as a nostalgia act, it's getting hrder to harder to enjoy this band. What's there to look forward to if the band is playing song's from 2 decades ago? We all want to trilogy of albums, the Vegas DVD, new music, and the band to be in the mainstream again. But as long as Axl doesn't want that, than the "negativity" will continue.