"The General" is officially delayed... but "The General" AND "Monsters" is (unofficially) out of the bag

[Its Tino]

2 hours ago, Arnuld said:

Is the song this week? Are people calling the Juke Box companies, Radio stations, train stations, bus stations, the airlines, studios, speaker manufacturers, record stores, (there have to be at least 5 left), Geffen Records, interscope records, and the personal line of Jimmy Iovine?! Cmon we must know when the General is going to drop! 
 

The problem is the band has released so little in the past 30 years it has whittled the psycho fan base down to almost nothing. I went to a Pearl Jam concert last week. Now that band has a psycho fan base. They had an entire arena singing along to deep cuts. 

Isn’t it an amazing experience?! My first PJ show I was essentially in awe for most of it. 

[evilfacelessturtle]

5 hours ago, jacdaniel said:

Did you hear Slash's solo on the General? 

How many Guns N Roses songs has he recorded where the solo went nowhere? 

As a Slash fan, I can't deny that he's lost a lot of his melodic sensibility since around 2014 or so. He's turned into a shredding wanker and I miss the old Slash.

[Sweersa]

7 hours ago, Blackstar said:

Absurd and Hard Skool were mastered at Sterling Studios (I don't remember the name of the engineer), probably with only the streaming platforms in mind. I suppose they took the criticism about the compression and loudness into consideration, so they went to Bob Ludwig for Perhaps (and most likely The General, as well).

I had no idea Bob mastered Perhaps. That’s incredible! He did a fantastic job on CD. I hope Absurd and Hard Skool get a remix and remaster, assuming they get put on an album. They at the very least would require a remaster if they were put on an album with other tracks. 

[Illusion1987]

On 9/24/2023 at 9:35 AM, gunsnchalupas said:

Mix and mastering are two different things. 

Chinese Democracy had dynamic mastering, but that doesn't mean the choices made in the mix were good or bad. 

Spaghetti Incident was mastered hot on CD, but people generally like the mix. It is still difficult to listen to due to the lack of dynamics. The original UYI albums were not mastered hot, but people generally are negative about the mix.

They made the choice to go with a more dynamic master for Chinese Democracy. This was because of Bob Ludwig. He was a proponent of Axl going against the grain and using the most dynamic master possible. He made three versions for them, one mastered hot with no dynamics, one in the middle, and one with the most dynamics possible. They chose the most dynamic mix, despite the trend at the time being that albums should be mastered as hot as possible. 

Appetite was mastered without the use of any compression, which was not a common thing. Compression is usually required for recordings, but the intended purpose is to level out performances, not to boost loudness to the top possible level, which is how it is used now. 

These guys are all in their 70s and can't hear anymore. They also want the songs to be commercially successful hits (which won't happen regardless), and the commercial standard is to master music hot at the expense of anybody who wants to listen to it on anything other than cheap laptop speakers. It is idiotic, but it isn't going away. 

Define "mastered as hot as possible"?

[GNRRHCP98]

The Stones have another single dropping this Friday. Someone on here (I believe) said a radio host mentioned GNR dropping a new track this week.

Perhaps (no pun intended) they will? It would be a great day for rock, that’s for sure!

Edited September 26, 2023 by GNRRHCP98

[gunsnchalupas]

1 hour ago, Illusion1987 said:

Define "mastered as hot as possible"?

Using compression to make an album as loud as possible. Google, loudness war. 

[gunsnchalupas]

 

Perhaps on top, HS on the bottom. 

The loudness war only really started around the mid 90s, so most of GNRs output was spared from it. Spaghetti' is the only GNR album to suffer from it. You can argue about it being a Punk album, and how it might have worked as an aesthetic choice. Ironically, albums that aren't boosted with loudness are easier to play louder than albums with immense clipping, so I would argue that it doesn't work as an aesthetic choice.

If I recall, almost everything Slash has put out since 5 O'Clock has been mastered loud. I don't know if this is an active choice on the part of Slash, or indifference to where popular music was trending. 

It's difficult to say with Axl, because he barely released anything, so all we have to go by is CD where Axl made the bold choice to release the most dynamic version of the album that was presented to him despite it being counter to the trends at the time in popular rock music. 

[betterman]

1 hour ago, GNRRHCP98 said:

The Stones have another single dropping this Friday. Someone on here (I believe) said a radio host mentioned GNR dropping a new track this week.

Perhaps (no pun intended) they will? It would be a great day for rock, that’s for sure!

U2 also dropping their new single

[Free Bird]

6 hours ago, evilfacelessturtle said:

As a Slash fan, I can't deny that he's lost a lot of his melodic sensibility since around 2014 or so. He's turned into a shredding wanker and I miss the old Slash.

Well, when you say he lost his melodic sensibility since 2014, do you mean before or after he recorded and released WOF?

Regardless, because whoever describes Living The Dream as a shredding wankfest hasn't listen to it. It's an opinion to say you don't like the songs but to claim the solos have no melodic sense is simply not true. Most of them are well structured and can not be considered shredding at all.

[Chris 55]

2 hours ago, gunsnchalupas said:

Spaghetti' is the only GNR album to suffer from it. You can argue about it being a Punk album, and how it might have worked as an aesthetic choice. 

 

I always wondered why the solo in "Down on the Farm" crackled at the end. 

[Dean]

3 hours ago, gunsnchalupas said:

 

Perhaps on top, HS on the bottom. 

The loudness war only really started around the mid 90s, so most of GNRs output was spared from it. Spaghetti' is the only GNR album to suffer from it. You can argue about it being a Punk album, and how it might have worked as an aesthetic choice. Ironically, albums that aren't boosted with loudness are easier to play louder than albums with immense clipping, so I would argue that it doesn't work as an aesthetic choice.

If I recall, almost everything Slash has put out since 5 O'Clock has been mastered loud. I don't know if this is an active choice on the part of Slash, or indifference to where popular music was trending. 

It's difficult to say with Axl, because he barely released anything, so all we have to go by is CD where Axl made the bold choice to release the most dynamic version of the album that was presented to him despite it being counter to the trends at the time in popular rock music. 

I did initially think that Slash may have influenced the decision for the mastering of the first two singles, however, upon revisiting Appetite for Democracy, the audio from that is exactly the same so it makes sense that it would have been an Axl call for both the live material and the singles. 

[Cosmo]

5 hours ago, betterman said:

U2 also dropping their new single

Get your iphones ready, boys 

[betterman]

I think there are some great tracks on Living the dream - one of my favourite Slash records, but there are some fillers there too

Boulevard of broken dreams is Ace!

[ZODIAC]

1 hour ago, betterman said:

I think there are some great tracks on Living the dream - one of my favourite Slash records, but there are some fillers there too

Boulevard of broken dreams is Ace!

I also love "The one you love is gone"!

[Voodoochild]

9 hours ago, gunsnchalupas said:

 

Perhaps on top, HS on the bottom. 

The loudness war only really started around the mid 90s, so most of GNRs output was spared from it. Spaghetti' is the only GNR album to suffer from it. You can argue about it being a Punk album, and how it might have worked as an aesthetic choice. Ironically, albums that aren't boosted with loudness are easier to play louder than albums with immense clipping, so I would argue that it doesn't work as an aesthetic choice.

If I recall, almost everything Slash has put out since 5 O'Clock has been mastered loud. I don't know if this is an active choice on the part of Slash, or indifference to where popular music was trending. 

It's difficult to say with Axl, because he barely released anything, so all we have to go by is CD where Axl made the bold choice to release the most dynamic version of the album that was presented to him despite it being counter to the trends at the time in popular rock music. 

Maybe it's worth to revisit Oh My God's soundwaves? 

It's cool to analise those things. I remember people saying Perhaps had clipping issues. At least from the mastering, it doesn't seem to have any missing frequencies, which is clearly the case with Hard Skool. Of course, the clipping could've been happen on the recording/mixing, but as far as I know, I could never hear any clipping or distorting frequencies on Perhaps.

[Appetitefordiscussion]

16 hours ago, Sweersa said:

I had no idea Bob mastered Perhaps. That’s incredible! He did a fantastic job on CD. I hope Absurd and Hard Skool get a remix and remaster, assuming they get put on an album. They at the very least would require a remaster if they were put on an album with other tracks. 

I didn’t know this either but makes sense now. From my first listen I thought Perhaps sounded closer to that album than the other two singles by miles. 

Edited September 26, 2023 by Appetitefordiscussion

[CAFC Nick]

16 minutes ago, Appetitefordiscussion said:

I didn’t know this either but makes sense now. From my first listen I thought Perhaps sounded closer to that album than the other two singles by miles. 

Absolutely.

Would love to understand the rationale of the final products for HS/Absurd. By the leak from the March 2020 Mexico show soundcheck, we know the arrangement for HS had been completed and likely recorded prior, meaning they had 18 months before it eventually was released to do a decent job on it but it turned out pretty abhorrent, mix wise at least. Perhaps sounded 10x better.

[gunsnchalupas]

8 hours ago, Dean said:

I did initially think that Slash may have influenced the decision for the mastering of the first two singles, however, upon revisiting Appetite for Democracy, the audio from that is exactly the same so it makes sense that it would have been an Axl call for both the live material and the singles. 

 

The default for modern rock or pop albums is to master them hot. So it is difficult to pin point if Hard School and Absurd being mastered that way would be a deliberate choice on the band, or ignorance to how it sounded. These are 60 year old men who have exposed their ears to a lot of loud noise over the last few decades. If someone auditioned a specific master to them, they may not care or notice about clipping or the master being loud. In the case of CD, Bob Ludwig campaigned Axl to choose the more dynamic master, but also provided two louder options. So we know in that scenario, it was made note of.

 

[Rovim]

13 minutes ago, gunsnchalupas said:

 

The default for modern rock or pop albums is to master them hot. So it is difficult to pin point if Hard School and Absurd being mastered that way would be a deliberate choice on the band, or ignorance to how it sounded. These are 60 year old men who have exposed their ears to a lot of loud noise over the last few decades. If someone auditioned a specific master to them, they may not care or notice about clipping or the master being loud. In the case of CD, Bob Ludwig campaigned Axl to choose the more dynamic master, but also provided two louder options. So we know in that scenario, it was made note of.

 

do we know that Ludwig pushed for the dynamic master version of Chinese to be chosen by Axl? I highly doubt it was ignorance. Axl has been doing this for a long time.

also, not all 60 year old men are too deaf to notice the details in a piece of music. Some still have the ears of a bat even in their 70 year old or whatever. 

Edited September 26, 2023 by Rovim

[gunsnchalupas]

2 hours ago, Voodoochild said:

Maybe it's worth to revisit Oh My God's soundwaves? 

It's cool to analise those things. I remember people saying Perhaps had clipping issues. At least from the mastering, it doesn't seem to have any missing frequencies, which is clearly the case with Hard Skool. Of course, the clipping could've been happen on the recording/mixing, but as far as I know, I could never hear any clipping or distorting frequencies on Perhaps.

 

Oh My God does have clipping. Also, I assume that the mastering may have been done out-of-house because it was for a soundtrack. I would have to either listen to the End Of Days soundtrack and/or rip a few songs. I don't know enough about how soundtracks are put together, but I assume that there is some basic mastering done to equalize the volume across multiple songs that are recorded separately.

If CD was released in 1999-2001, it would almost certainly suffer from brickwalling. There are some exceptions, but almost every major rock and pop album was mastered that way. We got very lucky that CD was released as dynamically as it was. Which isn't to say the mix is bad, good, or whatever, but at least we can hear it properly. 

There can still be clipping on individual tracks that doesn't show up on the complete waveform. So if people can hear clipping on a specific song but the waveform seems dynamic, it is still possible that one of the instruments or tracks in the song is causing it. That's a bit different though than an entire song getting brickwalled where it is fairly obvious and exhausting to listen to. 

[BreakDown2014]

1 minute ago, gunsnchalupas said:

 

Oh My God does have clipping. Also, I assume that the mastering may have been done out-of-house because it was for a soundtrack. I would have to either listen to the End Of Days soundtrack and/or rip a few songs. I don't know enough about how soundtracks are put together, but I assume that there is some basic mastering done to equalize the volume across multiple songs that are recorded separately.

If CD was released in 1999-2001, it would almost certainly suffer from brickwalling. There are some exceptions, but almost every major rock and pop album was mastered that way. We got very lucky that CD was released as dynamically as it was. Which isn't to say the mix is bad, good, or whatever, but at least we can hear it properly. 

There can still be clipping on individual tracks that doesn't show up on the complete waveform. So if people can hear clipping on a specific song but the waveform seems dynamic, it is still possible that one of the instruments or tracks in the song is causing it. That's a bit different though than an entire song getting brickwalled where it is fairly obvious and exhausting to listen to. 

Thank you for your post!  I didn't know the term "clipping" before.

To my ears, Perhaps has some clipping issues, even if the waveform seems dynamic. Happens with the guitars and some vocals. I wonder if it happens to anybody else (maybe my ears are too messed up).

[gunsnchalupas]

8 minutes ago, Rovim said:

do we know that Ludwig pushed for the dynamic mix to be chosen by Axl? I highly doubt it was ignorance. Axl has been doing this for a long time.

also, not all 60 year old men are too deaf to notice the details in a piece of music. Some still have the ears of a bat even in their 70 year old or whatever. 

I never said 60 year old men are deaf. I said these are 60 year old whose ears have been exposed to loud noises on a fairly regular basis. 

You can find numerous references to the mastering process of CD by googling some variation of Bob Ludwig Chinese Democracy Mastering dynamics. The original source might be gone from the internet, but there are numerous discussion topics quoting it and discussing it.

Whether Axl would have chosen the more dynamic version, even had Ludwig preferred a louder version of the master, we don't know. The point I am making is that we know a big reason why CD was so dynamic may have been that Bob Ludwig preferred that version of the master, and made that known to Axl and co. 

[surforia]

When does the vinyl come out again ?

[gunsnchalupas]

My point also isn't to rag on Axl or Slash for choosing loud masters. That's the unfortunate industry standard of almost all rock or pop music, so anybody mastering their music is almost certainly going in that direction unless they are told otherwise. While there has been some pushback against that kind of mastering from music enthusiasts, it's hardly a mainstream notion that albums mastered loud is bad. It's the default state of rock music, and only the most egregious examples like Death Magnetic seem to get any real mainstream pushback. 

Whether they simply don't notice, don't care, or prefer it - most mainstream rock acts have their albums mastered way too loud with some sort of clipping or distortion. 

[LA_0013]

18 hours ago, Sweersa said:

I had no idea Bob mastered Perhaps. That’s incredible! He did a fantastic job on CD. I hope Absurd and Hard Skool get a remix and remaster, assuming they get put on an album. They at the very least would require a remaster if they were put on an album with other tracks. 

Best thing they can do with Abrusb is get the verse lyrics back in synch with the music! I actually really like the Prodigy / punk vibe of the track and the mix but the delay really grates my ears