THE GENERAL - MONSTERS - Official Discussion Thread. NO LINKS OR ASKING FOR LINKS

[Appetitefordiscussion]

6 hours ago, AxlRoseCDII said:

He said during the debut of Perhaps he doesn’t know how to sing it. I guess he must think it’s cool to admit to thousands of paying fans you didn’t practice.

I think he’s self aware and it’s a disclaimer. Honestly, I thought he sounded great. Especially the second half of the song. 

[Lethalis]

25 minutes ago, Voodoochild said:

How would you feel if they release The General on vinyl and Monsters digital only?

I'm with @Blackstar, I still feel like those two songs are tied somehow. 

I'm hoping they release Monsters together with Atlas Shrugged now. And add The General digitally to the Perhaps single.

So we get:

Perhaps / The General

Atlas Shrugged / Monsters

And hopefully more new stuff in the future.

[Master Of Reality]

38 minutes ago, Rovim said:

I think it's like Axl said it was: CD ll, ie the second half of Chinese was completed since at least 2007 probably. An album's worth of material with complete vocals and Axl, for whatever reason, decided to sit on it.

 

There was probably a lot going on with the record company. There were rumours it got rejected. Axl made his intentions very clear over the years to release a follow up to Chinese and tour for a long time. I just think they stopped supporting them financially after the Chinese release debacle and Axl not promoting his own record etc. . It's no secret people were pushing heavily for a reunion behind the scenes. Another record wasn't financially interesting for anyone at that point. 

[Lethalis]

15 minutes ago, StrangerInThisTown said:

I don't agree that an album or even EP is necessary in 2023, it's no longer an album oriented music world and it hasn't been for years now, all you need is a new single every now and then to keep your fans interested. Albums are so much work and they are quickly forgotten and fall off the charts very fast a few weeks after they're out, it's not like it used to be, where albums would only get bigger after they're released.

But I agree the one-two punch of The General followed by Monsters is awesome to listen to, they should keep that. Especially for the fans who confused Monsters to be The General all these years.

Yet so many other bands release albums... including Duff and Slash

3 minutes ago, Master Of Reality said:

There was probably a lot going on with the record company. There were rumours it got rejected. Axl made his intentions very clear over the years to release a follow up to Chinese and tour for a long time. I just think they stopped supporting them financially after the Chinese release debacle and Axl not promoting his own record etc. . It's no secret people were pushing heavily for a reunion behind the scenes. Another record wasn't financially interesting for anyone at that point. 

A reunion album with Duff and Slash however will spark more interest. And Duff and Slash will promote it if Axl doesn't feel like doing so.

[DTJ80]

52 minutes ago, Rovim said:

I think it's like Axl said it was: CD ll, ie the second half of Chinese was completed since at least 2007 probably. An album's worth of material with complete vocals and Axl, for whatever reason, decided to sit on it.

 

Yeah - I’ve always bought into the notion that there WAS more material. The thought that he wouldn’t have captured any studio vocals for years and years just never really seemed believable to me. Clearly record company politics put a spanner in the works for CDII.

[Mikey Whipwreck]

2 minutes ago, StrangerInThisTown said:

I don't agree that an album or even EP is necessary in 2023, it's no longer an album oriented music world and it hasn't been for years now, all you need is a new single every now and then to keep your fans interested. Albums are so much work and they are quickly forgotten and fall off the charts very fast a few weeks after they're out, it's not like it used to be, where albums would only get bigger after they're released.

But I agree the one-two punch of The General followed by Monsters is awesome to listen to, they should keep that. Especially for the fans who confused Monsters to be The General all these years.

I agree that it's probably not worth  it from a financial perspective to do a new album. And that a new album would be largely forgotten in a few months. If pulled a Billy Joel and stated they're no longer recording or releasing new music it wouldn't have any impact on ticket sales, and their old hits will continue to bring in the streaming money. It's not like they raked in major cash off Hard School or Perhaps. 

But they have an older fanbase that comes from the album era. Artistically it's more satisfying to listen to a collection of songs that go together with this type of band. Metallica's new album "sold" 146,000 copies the first week, 134,000 of those were actual sales. Meaning the album did very little business in terms of streaming. A modern act that had 146,000 opening week, maybe 10% of that would be actual sales the rest would be streaming. 

And these songs were recorded two decades ago or more, with the overdubs and updates completed several years back. So wouldn't be any more work to release them together. 

[StrangerInThisTown]

5 minutes ago, Lethalis said:

Yet so many other bands release albums... including Duff and Slash

I'm not saying it's not a valid way to release your music nowadays, just that it isn't the "go to" way anymore that you need to do. These days it is now just put out all the singles before the album has even released, to get the pre-order up, so you can say it charted at #1 when it releases, and then the album is pretty much dead in the water only a month after that. At that point you might aswell just keep putting out singles indefinitely instead of an album. 

Edited November 3, 2023 by StrangerInThisTown

[DTJ80]

18 minutes ago, StrangerInThisTown said:

I don't agree that an album or even EP is necessary in 2023, it's no longer an album oriented music world and it hasn't been for years now, all you need is a new single every now and then to keep your fans interested. Albums are so much work and they are quickly forgotten and fall off the charts very fast a few weeks after they're out, it's not like it used to be, where albums would only get bigger after they're released.

It is now just put out all the singles before the album is even out, to get the pre-order up, chart high when it releases, and then the album is pretty much dead in the water after that. At that point you might aswell just keep putting out singles indefinitely instead of an album.

But I agree the one-two punch of The General followed by Monsters is awesome to listen to, they should keep that. Especially for the fans who confused Monsters to be The General all these years.

Might not be necessary but they may actually want/choose to do it. Folks should be under no illusion that there would be hype and likely a spot at the top of the charts…..but then it drop’s pretty quickly. No different to most artists really.

However - in terms of legacy/discography it expands it (something Axl has lamented), give fans something cool and gets the band some attention. Folk will look back and see nothing other than a number one album…not for how long etc.

[Blackstar]

4 minutes ago, Lethalis said:

Yet so many other bands release albums... including Duff and Slash

A reunion album with Duff and Slash however will spark more interest. And Duff and Slash will promote it if Axl doesn't feel like doing so.

The problems is that an album consisting of CD era "leftovers" can't be the reunion album and can't be the second half of CD either, because that project and era don't exist anymore. So the standalone songs way seems to be the only "harmless" way to get these songs out.

[Master Of Reality]

11 minutes ago, Lethalis said:

Yet so many other bands release albums... including Duff and Slash

A reunion album with Duff and Slash however will spark more interest. And Duff and Slash will promote it if Axl doesn't feel like doing so.

I really hope they release it after all those years. If they did it when the reunion was still fresh it would have sparked a lot of interest. Right now, an album would be released purely to please the fans. Not a lot more... . The Perhaps video for example 'only' got 5 million views. Not bad, but nothing compared to bands their size. The interest for new GNR songs/albums from the general rock crowd is just not so big anymore. 

Edited November 3, 2023 by Master Of Reality

[22frets]

5 hours ago, KIKOZ3 said:

 

That's the problem with Slash these days.

 

He lost his good taste.

Instead of playing with emotion, nowadays he improvises and unceremoniously fries his guitar and the solo ends up being shit.

Playing fast has never been Slash's strong point.

He's not a technical guitarist.

I swear I can't understand.

I partially agree to what you said. In this case though, I wanted him to do the insane shred that he did in the leak instead of just the bends that he played live. 

Slash is a decent shredder, one who can put emotion into shredding and make it sound less sterile. He can also play a lot faster than he used to back in the day and do it well. The problem arises when he starts to shred when it doesn't fit the context of the song. I'm sure this approach is easier for him because he doesn't really have to think of a proper melody when he can just try to play all the notes in the scale, but it isn't that enjoyable for the person listening, especially when you expect a solo to sound a certain way based off the record. 

[Rovim]

17 minutes ago, Master Of Reality said:

There was probably a lot going on with the record company. There were rumours it got rejected. Axl made his intentions very clear over the years to release a follow up to Chinese and tour for a long time. I just think they stopped supporting them financially after the Chinese release debacle and Axl not promoting his own record etc. . It's no secret people were pushing heavily for a reunion behind the scenes. Another record wasn't financially interesting for anyone at that point. 

I think Axl had way too much time to release more material for the reason for the lack of releases to be only other parties involved. Musicians release music cause they need to and nobody makes real money directly from album sales anymore except rare cases. Axl doesn't owe me anything, but he is certainly a hoarder imo and I think he could have found a way to release more music if that was his number 1 priority. Overthinking it seems to complicate shit for him, but we don't really know his side of it cause he chooses not to go into details about his process even when he gives interviews.

[Rovim]

16 minutes ago, Blackstar said:

The problems is that an album consisting of CD era "leftovers" can't be the reunion album and can't be the second half of CD either, because that project and era don't exist anymore. So the standalone songs way seems to be the only "harmless" way to get these songs out.

frankly, it kinda sounds like lack of balls and/or a way to get as much mileage out of the leftovers. I know plans change, but Slash said that maybe they'll eventually release the singles as a full album, collecting all of it on one disk or whatever. I don't fully understand what you mean by "harmless", I wonder how much Axl cares about what the hardcore Gn'R fan thinks, like it was in the past when he made changes to the music just cause he read shit that was said here and in other forums about Catcher and Better for example.

[THELINESMAN]

If we ever do get a proper reunion album with fresh material, I hope it's full of more happy upbeat rockers with humour in again like PTU and GITR and angry upbeat stuff like RNDTH. Lots of these Chinese leftovers seem to be mid tempo. 

[Mikey Whipwreck]

16 minutes ago, Master Of Reality said:

I really hope they release it after all those years. If they did it when the reunion was still fresh it would have sparked a lot of interest. Right now, an album would be released purely to please the fans. Not a lot more... . The Perhaps video for example 'only' got 5 million views. Not bad, but nothing compared to bands their size. The interest for new GNR songs/albums from the general rock crowd is just not so big anymore. 

Other bands of that era and stature tend to actually promote their new songs and album. Advertisements, interviews, talk show appearances and so forth. 

Whereas GNR promotion for a new single is posting about it once on social media and never mentioning it again, outside of performing the songs live. 

 

[AxlSlashthebest]

there songs need an epic solo of Slash

[AxlRQ93]

the two songs are disturbing somehow 

[Coma16]

2 minutes ago, Mikey Whipwreck said:

Other bands of that era and stature tend to actually promote their new songs and album. Advertisements, interviews, talk show appearances and so forth. 

Whereas GNR promotion for a new single is posting about it once on social media and never mentioning it again, outside of performing the songs live. 

 

Except with Perhaps of course.

[Sweersa]

10 minutes ago, Rovim said:

frankly, it kinda sounds like lack of balls and/or a way to get as much mileage out of the leftovers. I know plans change, but Slash said that maybe they'll eventually release the singles as a full album, collecting all of it on one disk or whatever. I don't fully understand what you mean by "harmless", I wonder how much Axl cares about what the hardcore Gn'R fan thinks, like it was in the past when he made changes to the music just cause he read shit that was said here and in other forums about Catcher and Better for example.

Hard Skool and Absurd will need some work before they are put onto the same disc as Perhaps. (Mix and master)

I'd be OK with an eventual album not containing those first two singles. 

[Blackstar]

5 minutes ago, Rovim said:

frankly, it kinda sounds like lack of balls and/or a way to get as much mileage out of the leftovers. I know plans change, but Slash said that maybe they'll eventually release the singles as a full album, collecting all of it on one disk or whatever. I don't fully understand what you mean by "harmless", I wonder how much Axl cares about what the hardcore Gn'R fan thinks, like it was in the past when he made changes to the music just cause he read shit that was said here and in other forums about Catcher and Better for example.

I don't mean it so much in the sense that Axl is afraid of criticism, but in the sense an album is much more of a "statement" than individual songs. And what kind of statement would such an album be? It can't be the continuation of CD, since that project was over long ago and it wouldn't really connect with CD 1 as years have gone by. And it can't be the reunion album either, because it comes from another era. So it's kind of out of time and place.

The standalone way is a way to still release these songs that Axl has been sitting on for so long and wanted to release without making a "statement". I don't mind it at all. My only problem is the big gaps between releases.

[guitarpatch]

A few thoughts on the album front 

1. the follow up album was most likely done. Once UMG stopped funding the project, it probably made things complicated. Especially when the follow up was ready and you get into advances 

2. Singles vs album approach. It seems like they are working these releases within their touring deals. 2 songs per tour and you get to go to the well many times over vs just one album release. Maybe it’s just all part of the negotiation. It creates a news cycle and fulfills their promotion obligation since Axl doesn’t do interviews 

3. Whenever they’re done getting everything out, we will see everything released on one album. With all of the $50 color vinyl variants that you would want 

4. The more these rehashed songs get released, the better chance of an expanded Chinese Democracy box set 

Edited November 3, 2023 by guitarpatch

[Master Of Reality]

12 minutes ago, Rovim said:

I think Axl had way too much time to release more material for the reason for the lack of releases to be only other parties involved. Musicians release music cause they need to and nobody makes real money directly from album sales anymore except rare cases. Axl doesn't owe me anything, but he is certainly a hoarder imo and I think he could have found a way to release more music if that was his number 1 priority. Overthinking it seems to complicate shit for him, but we don't really know his side of it cause he chooses not to go into details about his process even when he gives interviews.

I know. He seems to be very insecure about releasing songs from that era.  And the record company not supporting him probably stopped his interest in releasing anything back in 2010-2014. Such a waste of time and talent. Really happy to finally hear these songs with Slash and Duff, but if he just decided to go solo back in the day and let those who created it shine with him. It all became to complicated under the GNR moniker. 

[oneway23]

The limp-dicked way they've been going about these drip-fed releases is the only way it works for all involved parties.  Release these decades old, warmed-over leftovers in a collection on one disc and it suddenly and somewhat unfairly becomes "the comeback album", with all the requisite attention and promotional requirements.

 

The way they're going about things is clearly the level at which Axl is comfortable operating.

[oneway23]

5 minutes ago, guitarpatch said:

1. the follow up album was most likely done. Once UMG stopped funding the project, it probably made things complicated. Especially when the follow up was ready and you get into advances 

I fully believe CD 2 was ready to go in 2011-2012, but, Irving Azoff took that management role knowing full well his ultimate aim was an Appetite-era reunion.

[guitarpatch]

Just now, oneway23 said:

I fully believe CD 2 was ready to go in 2011-2012, but, Irving Azoff took that management role knowing full well his ultimate aim was an Appetite-era reunion.

If you know anything about Azoff, it’s obvious. That’s what he does. Why Axl didn’t see that? No clue. Unless he wanted the reunion to happen earlier