THE GENERAL - MONSTERS - Official Discussion Thread. NO LINKS OR ASKING FOR LINKS

[DannyVinyard]

4 hours ago, rumandraisin said:

Exactly that. It's very clear what Azoffs plan was. Get Chinese out, fuck with communication and members pay, touring plans and force Axl in to a reunion situation. I'm so glad Axl was able to hold out until he was ready. Say what you will but Axl in that era always came out on top and stuck to his integrity even if it meant being pretty much seen as the enemy by fans, press and the mainstream who just wanted a reunion. He never caved in. 

This is the Axl I miss, the real Axl Rose, not the TB controlled cash gouger that we have now. 

Not sure how there was a lack of communication between Axl and Robin though. Did they really not have each other's cell phone numbers?!  You'd think Axl would realize his contract was up soon and reach out to him for an extension.

 

[Draguns]

3 hours ago, Voodoochild said:

No, it’s still subjective. Why would you pigeonhole my opinion as being “fandom speaking” while you state your opinion as gospel? 

Also, the album didnt leak on MySpace, the band released it there. It was actually a bold move, even if not the smartest.

BTW, I don’t give two flying fucks to sales and being “successful”. I like what I like, and I didn’t like those other two albums at all back then and never really wanted to get back to listen again. 

I NEVER   said that my opinion is gospel. In fact you were the one stating that it's subjective. That's why I said what I said in my reply. No need to lash out.  Chill out.

Additionally, I forgot it was released officially on MySpace. I have other things on my mind. Apologies for that part. 

3 hours ago, CaioAKR said:

Nah, I'm with Voodoo on this one. I find CD a million times better than Death Magnetic and Black Ice. It's subjective, of course, but you really can't call it a fact. Being more successful says nothing about the quality. I much prefer something different and interesting like CD than a lesser rehash of past material.

I NEVER  said my opinion was fact. Wow!  

Edited December 5, 2023 by Draguns
added text

[Draguns]

3 hours ago, evilfacelessturtle said:

 

 

I'm equally an AC/DC and GNR fan (don't care about Metallica) and I would never compare Black Ice to CD. Black Ice had some interesting ideas, but only a few fully realized songs. Rock N Roll Train is one of the worst songs they've ever done. But it's stupid and simplistic with a big chanting chorus, and it was the lead single after a long hiatus, so of course it was successful. It's also exactly what people expected from AC/DC. CD was never trying to be a mainstream hit and serve up that low hanging fruit.

Money Made should have been the lead single, that was the best song by a mile.

 

 

The only reason why  I compared it was because all three were released right around the same time. 

[CaioAKR]

5 minutes ago, Draguns said:

I NEVER   said that my opinion is gospel. In fact you were the one stating that it's subjective. That's why I said what I said in my reply. No need to lash out.  Chill out.

I NEVER  said my opinion was fact. Wow!  

It's the way you worded it. "It's your fandom talking. You're not being realistic. Both albums were better."

It's all fine. Just pointing why we answered like that.

Edited December 5, 2023 by CaioAKR

[Draguns]

11 minutes ago, CaioAKR said:

It's the way you worded it. "It's your fandom talking. You're not being realistic. Both albums were better."

It's all fine. Just pointing why we answered like that.

I worded the way I did because he was saying that my post was subjective. His post is subjective as well. How come you didn't say anything to him? I don't appreciate words being put into my mouth.

You probably took his side because you didn't like what I said. 

Edited December 5, 2023 by Draguns

[Coma16]

Did they start shipping yet ?

[CaioAKR]

11 hours ago, Draguns said:

I worded the way I did because he was saying that my post was subjective. His post is subjective as well. How come you didn't say anything to him? I don't appreciate words being put into my mouth.

You probably took his side because you didn't like what I said. 

I mean, yeah, he said your take was subjective and then you said thinking CD was better than Black Ice and Death Magnetic was not realistic. Saying it's "not realistic" implies you think our opinion is objectively wrong, you see?

Anyway, this is really a minor thing that shouldn't derail this thread. lol All is fine. Hope The General is released on Spotify this week and, who know, maybe Monsters shows up soon enough.

 

Edited December 5, 2023 by CaioAKR

[Voodoochild]

7 hours ago, Draguns said:

I NEVER   said that my opinion is gospel. In fact you were the one stating that it's subjective. That's why I said what I said in my reply. No need to lash out.  Chill out.

Additionally, I forgot it was released officially on MySpace. I have other things on my mind. Apologies for that part. 

I NEVER  said my opinion was fact. Wow!  

I'm ok, but maybe you're the one who needs to chill. I didn't want to upset you with my comment. But I didn't say you SAID that, I said you stated your opinion - that both albums were supposedly BETTER than CD - as a fact. I said that was just your opinion, not a fact, and that's what I meant when I said it was subjective. 

When I said that I like CD a lot more, that's subjective too, of course. And that's what I said: it's your opinion, and I said my opinion - that you promptly dismissed as "fandom talking", which I don't appreciate either, but it's all good. 

Anyways, I apologize if what I said offended you, but I stand by what I said: what you said about CD is just your opinion, and that's subjective. 

[Lethalis]

In my opinion Chinese Democracy is much better than Metallica's Death Magnetic. I like Metallica, but their newer stuff just isn't as great as their old stuff. A couple of songs come close, but that's it.

That being said, AFD and UYI are much better - in my opinion - than CD though. But CD holds its own against other "newer" material of other bands. Maybe not in sales, but I don't care about sales.

Anyways... every album is just a point in time and it doesn't tell the whole story. RHCP's Stadium Arcadium was really good, but the newer album... I don't know, meh. I'm not going to judge them by that though, because they have released so much great stuff that I don't even care whether their last album is great or not.

Edited December 5, 2023 by Lethalis

[Spiritual_Chaos]

CD didn't have the singles or the type of songs people wanted or knew the band for. That's just how it is. 

[Lelex95]

7 minutes ago, Spiritual_Chaos said:

CD didn't have the singles or the type of songs people wanted or knew the band for. That's just how it is. 

Well to be honest street of dreams and Chinese democracy could have been singles and neither would have suggested a drastic change o style. 
There was a time with a bit of a different mix and a different drumming style to me is very uyi and better is great rocker if you let go of the poppy intro. 

[jackparker123]

No real promo from Axl and no music videos basically destroyed any chance of Chinese Democracy being the commercial success that it deserved to be.

I imagine Axl felt mysterious and edgy going into hiding but it was self sabotage on an industrial scale and he effectively ended his career as a commercial recording artist in that moment.

Here we are today, 15 years later and still waiting for the follow up!

[Axl_morris]

Any more information on when monsters is being released?

[Draguns]

2 hours ago, Voodoochild said:

I'm ok, but maybe you're the one who needs to chill. I didn't want to upset you with my comment. But I didn't say you SAID that, I said you stated your opinion - that both albums were supposedly BETTER than CD - as a fact. I said that was just your opinion, not a fact, and that's what I meant when I said it was subjective. 

When I said that I like CD a lot more, that's subjective too, of course. And that's what I said: it's your opinion, and I said my opinion - that you promptly dismissed as "fandom talking", which I don't appreciate either, but it's all good. 

Anyways, I apologize if what I said offended you, but I stand by what I said: what you said about CD is just your opinion, and that's subjective. 

The way you worded it kinda came across as you downplaying my opinion. Anyway, I apologize as well. I like what you usually post on here.  I hope you didn't take offense to my comment as well. 

[Voodoochild]

23 minutes ago, Draguns said:

The way you worded it kinda came across as you downplaying my opinion. Anyway, I apologize as well. I like what you usually post on here.  I hope you didn't take offense to my comment as well. 

It's all good 

[bmus1]

2 hours ago, jackparker123 said:

 imagine Axl felt mysterious and edgy going into hiding but it was self sabotage on an industrial scale and he effectively ended his career as a commercial recording artist in that moment.

Here we are today, 15 years later and still waiting for the follow up!

I know people who thought GNR broke up after Chinese Democracy came out, and the Slash/Duff reunion pulled Axl out of hiding. Obviously if you paid any attention to GNR, anyone could find out that wasn't true, but the second that album came out the world stopped caring.

[Tyson]

I think the singles off of Chinese Democracy should have been I.R.S. (with a radio edit that removes the extended guitar solo prior to the first repeated chorus) and then This I Love.  

[Lelex95]

49 minutes ago, Tyson said:

I think the singles off of Chinese Democracy should have been I.R.S. (with a radio edit that removes the extended guitar solo prior to the first repeated chorus) and then This I Love.  

I.R.S. Is definitely one of the best songs on the record, it’s a big jump in terms of style from their latest releases at the time (if we don’t consider oh my god) so in terms of sales maybe it would have been better to pick Chinese democracy which sound a bit more “guns like”. 
This I love is a great choice to be honest and for the same reasons I think street of dreams would have been a great choice. 
you can imagine more than two singles coming out for such a big album anyway. 

[Lethalis]

IRS and SoD would have been great singles.

[Sweersa]

SoD was a single, though not pushed much, and difficult to find. 

[General2112]

Anyone else think they will release the general in their 12 days of GNR Christmas calendar on their website 

[gnfnrs1972]

🥱 Waiting for the next leak. These songs are old now.

 

 

 

 

Just kidding I like both of them.

[ZoSoRose]

21 hours ago, Draguns said:

It's your fandom talking. It's not being realistic. Both albums were better.  If you look at the three albums lead off singles , "Rock N Roll Train" and "The Day That Never Comes" were more successful than CD. I like CD a lot. Additionally, there were no Slash and Duff on the album, which hurt sales of the album.

As an album CD was good, but not great.  It was missing elements that made GNR great. Casual fans saw this. Additionally, it was leaked onto MySpace, which hurt the sales of the album more.  As I previously stated, the worst business decision that Axl made at the time was keeping the GNR name. Even if he had promoted the album, I don't think it would have mattered as much as some fans think.  Casuals expected Slash and to a lesser extent Duff on a GNR album.  that wasn't what they got.

This kind of thing is purely subjective. In 2008 I was still very much forming my final opinions on GNR. I also loved Metallica and AC/DC in high school. That fall was huge for 16-17- year- old- me. New Metallica, AC/DC, and the fabled Chinese Democracy all back- to- back was unreal at that age. Of the three, teenage- me vastly gravitated towards Chinese and GNR. I listened to the hell out of Death Magnetic, but Chinese was easily my favorite of the 3. I am not denying that Black Ice and Death Magnetic were more commercially successful, I am just saying people have preferences that go beyond their "fandom talking". I genuinely like Chinese more than those other albums. Still, Death Magnetic was a "back to their original sound" album and Black Ice had a big lead single and AC/DC had been away for a minute. Plus, those bands had more than one key member and were "accepted" lineups despite not being all- original.

As a teenager, Black Ice didn't grab me a ton. I liked it fine, and listened to the singles here and there, but CD and DM were in higher rotation, for sure. The Black Ice tour was awesome, though. 

I agree with your second paragraph, though. It is still one of my favorite rock albums ever, but CD was always destined to be what it was imo. It was never going to set the world on fire. I actually think Chinese's title track is a bitching hard rock song, and a good lead single choice. It just wasn't the original band, was still a different sound for GNR, and had a lot of baggage behind it. Too bad. Axl keeping the name probably allowed him to generate more revenue in the short- term (playing stadiums and arenas with the name), but it definitely hurt the brand and his image in the long- term. Not saying it was the wrong choice, financially. CD would have sold less as an Axl- project and he would have been playing theaters like Slash. Not that there is anything wrong with, that. Even Steven Tyler and Robert Plant tour theaters when they are solo. 

I guess Axl would always have the "Axl is a dick" label with casual fans, so might as well lean in and take and use the band name, anyways. 

Edited December 5, 2023 by ZoSoRose

[Tyson]

3 hours ago, Lelex95 said:

I.R.S. Is definitely one of the best songs on the record, it’s a big jump in terms of style from their latest releases at the time (if we don’t consider oh my god) so in terms of sales maybe it would have been better to pick Chinese democracy which sound a bit more “guns like”. 
This I love is a great choice to be honest and for the same reasons I think street of dreams would have been a great choice. 
you can imagine more than two singles coming out for such a big album anyway. 

Street of Dreams would have worked too, but I think This I Love is a bit more emotionally resonant.  The ending to SOD is great though.  I do think that I.R.S. is actually a bit more classic GNR sounding than Chinese Democracy, with the great hook and all.  

Edited December 5, 2023 by Tyson

[JAxlMorrison]

The more I see this “General” clip from the Hollywood Bowl, the more convinced I am that they wanna utilize some of the footage for a video for the song. Slash, who at first I thought was just rocking out, uses a whole lot of exaggerated movements in it.