Choose your Illusion - the next (hypothetical) album

[RONIN]

Given all the talk from Slash about a potential album....Where does the forum stand re: what should happen to the Chinese Democracy material, Axl's declining vocals and its effect on new compositions, etc?  Imho, I don't think the Chinese Democracy material should be touched - especially the Buckethead stuff. I'd hate to see his work get deleted a la the Brian May sessions ( a tragic fucking waste). I also think it's a big mistake to record new compositions with Axl's current vocals - given that he has completed vocal tracks from his prime still sitting in a vault.

The quandary for me is, how do Slash/Duff (and Izzy?) integrate themselves into the completed Chi Dem era Axl tracks organically and furthermore, preserve as much of Buckethead's presence as possible? If they find a way to do it, that would be my ideal scenario for a new album.  Perhaps release the Bucket stuff in a separate Chinese Boxset and do alternate versions of those songs using Axl's 90's/00's vocals? Similar to how Axl wrote lyrics around Slash's Coma riffs, maybe they can do the reverse with Slash and Duff writing around Axl's existing vocals - and Axl/Izzy can arrange it into something cohesive. That way the Chinese era is preserved and we get an "original GnR" twist to that material. Throw in some of their riffs from the 1996 album and voila, you have an album. The '96 album was supposed to feature a bunch of guest stars iirc - so in keeping with that, maybe toss in a few tracks using Bucket, Brian May, etc as high profile guests and have Slash/Duff weave their way around that. Best of both worlds right there. Hope springs eternal...

I think this would really stack the deck in their favor because you can bridge the gap from Illusions to the present in the most practical way possible. All this stuff is sitting right there in the vault - they don't even have to do any new compositions to make a great GnR album. Besides, (with all due respect) do we really want the "b-team" (Fortus/Frank) on a follow-up album to Use Your Illusion? Session players on a legendary band's comeback album? What have they done to earn that spot? At least Bucket and Brian May are legends in their own right - deserving to be featured with AFD 4. They would elevate that material. For the same reason Axl didn't want Gilby on the next album, there's a strong case to be made here about the participation of Fortus and Frank. 

Lastly, should you do a GnR album that doesn't feature Slash and Izzy riffing against each other? They tried that with Illusions and as per Axl and most fans/critics, the results were inferior compared to AFD (even though they arguably were working with stronger material for UYI). The Izzy/Slash tandem is foundational to the sound of the band. How can you do a new album without that? 

Edited August 23, 2018 by RONIN

[LikeADog93]

In a perfect world, the album would start with Izzy and Slash collaborating and coming up with riff ideas, then presenting their ideas to Axl who would then write lyrics, and to top it off, bring in Duff and Steven to complete the tracks. But this is not a perfect world, this is GNR world, where nothing logical ever occurs.

Edited August 22, 2018 by LikeADog93

[Gibson87]

An album with the current lineup and some CD era stuff. Don't really care if Izzy is on the record 

[RONIN]

9 minutes ago, LikeADog93 said:

In a perfect world, the album would start with Izzy and Slash collaborating and coming up with riff ideas, then presenting their ideas to Axl who would then write lyrics, and to top it off, bring in Duff and Steven to complete the track. But this is not a perfect world, this is GNR world, where nothing logical ever occurs.

Agreed. If we're working with the assumption that Axl's vocals are toast even in the studio, the only viable option is to use his completed vocal takes from the Chinese sessions. That's the current limitation that the band faces right out of the gate.

Then you have the Izzy MIA situation...

 

Edited August 22, 2018 by RONIN

[GNR 1991]

Best of both worlds:

6 songs from the Chinese Democracy sessions without adding or deleting any parts.

6 songs from the NITL lineup with brand-new Axl vocals.

This way, the Bucket/Finck era gets more out of their tenure and pleases those fans AND you can market this album as “the first  original GnR album w/ Slash since UYI”. Win win.

 

You guys need to really let the Izzy thing go. He’s not going to go into a studio with these guys ever again and they aren’t gonna release any mid 90’s album that probably doesn’t even exist.

Edited August 23, 2018 by GNR 1991

[Gordon Comstock]

Quote

No album should be released without the participation of Izzy. It will never live up the old material and only diminish their legend (post-black album Metallica). Stay retired or keep touring without Izzy, don't care. If they get Izzy, release the 1996 album - the only "real" GnR album worth caring about.

Does anyone actually think bringing Izzy back would somehow equate to another AFD or Illusions-level record? You could lock the original 5 in a room and whatever they come up with, no matter how good, it wouldn't "live up to the old material". Nor should they try to make something like one of their old records. That was half their lifetime ago, it won't happen again, that chemistry/environment can't just be recreated.

I have no real interest in the mid-90s sessions. All the good riffs were probably used on other solo songs or unreleased CD songs, and Axl didn't even do any vocals during those sessions IIRC.

 

The best options in the poll would be 1 or 2, give me 8-10 new songs, I don't care if they're re-worked CD songs or new Slash/Duff/4tus/Frank songs, just get the best/most complete ones together, throw a cover of The Seeker or Wichita Lineman on there, release it and tour it. After that they can work on all-new material and release a CD box-set with Bucket/Brain/Finck songs.

[angriestwhopper]

Vault is only Axls thoughts. Despite them making zero profit on it due to the 100 collaborations and writing credits

[EvanG]

Take away all their money, throw the AFD lineup in a crappy apartment together with a bunch of instruments, hang up a webcam for our entertainment without them knowing, and let them do their thing. It will probably still not be as good as back then because they're almost 60 now, but if they don't end up killing each other, maybe we will get a worthy follow-up out of it.

[MaskingApathy]

I think they're perfectly capable of writing all new material, plus maybe using a few ideas from the vault. As far as Fortus/Frank go, I don't really care anymore as long as they don't do anything weird. Izzy and Steven, who knows. I wouldn't expect them to be involved but if they made a guest appearance or something on a song then that would be nice. I personally wouldn't mind a few covers on there too, specifically Seeker and Rosie. I would also add Chinese and Better because I like those two songs. That's just my ideas though. For now I'm enjoying the return of SMKC

[ludurigan]

1 hour ago, RONIN said:

Given all the talk from Slash about a potential album....Where does the forum stand re: what should happen to the Chinese Democracy material, Axl's declining vocals and its effect on new compositions, etc?  Imho, I don't think the Chinese Democracy material should be touched - especially the Buckethead stuff. I'd hate to see his work get deleted a la the Brian May sessions ( a tragic fucking waste). I also think it's a big mistake to record new compositions with Axl's current vocals - given that he has completed vocal tracks from his prime still sitting in a vault.

The quandary for me is, how do Slash/Duff (and Izzy?) integrate themselves into the completed Chi Dem era Axl tracks organically and furthermore, preserve as much of Buckethead's presence as possible? If they find a way to do it, that would be my ideal scenario for a new album.  Perhaps release the Bucket stuff in a separate Chinese Boxset and do alternate versions of those songs using Axl's 90's/00's vocals? Similar to how Axl wrote lyrics around Slash's Coma riffs, maybe they can do the reverse with Slash and Duff writing around Axl's existing vocals - and Axl/Izzy can arrange it into something cohesive. That way the Chinese era is preserved and we get an "original GnR" twist to that material. Throw in some of their riffs from the 1996 album and voila, you have an album. The '96 album was supposed to feature a bunch of guest stars iirc - so in keeping with that, maybe toss in a few tracks using Bucket, Brian May, etc as high profile guests and have Slash/Duff weave their way around that. Best of both worlds right there. Hope springs eternal...

I think this would really stack the deck in their favor because you can bridge the gap from Illusions to the present in the most practical way possible. All this stuff is sitting right there in the vault - they don't even have to do any new compositions to make a great GnR album. Besides, (with all due respect) do we really want the "b-team" (Fortus/Frank) on a follow-up album to Use Your Illusion? Session players on a legendary band's comeback album? What have they done to earn that spot? At least Bucket and Brian May are legends in their own right - deserving to be featured with AFD 4. They would elevate that material. For the same reason Axl didn't want Gilby on the next album, there's a strong case to be made here about the participation of Fortus and Frank. 

Lastly, should you do a GnR album that doesn't feature Slash and Izzy riffing against each other? They tried that with Illusions and as per Axl and most fans/critics, the results were inferior compared to AFD (even though they arguably were working with stronger material for UYI). The Izzy/Slash tandem is foundational to the sound of the band. How can you do a new album without that? 

 

Ideal scenario for a new album is obviously get the five guys (or, at least, the four guys) in a room for two weeks and just fucking write. It's easy. Do it on acoustic guitars. Do it with electric guitars with a drummer (hopefully steven). Just fucking do it. Its gonna be great. No one wants Appetite 2 or Illusion 3. Give us "GNR at 50-something years old" writing about stuff that Ax$l, Izzy and Dough care about. Write about whatever you feel like writing. Love songs? Donald Trump? Girls that leave to Vietnam? I don't care. Just fucking do it. It's simple like that.

Ax$l's declining vocals is a sad reality BUT 1) he has proven he can sing properly when he wants to and 2) he can always forget about high notes and use his low voice. Also in the studio he can record slowly (one song per day, one song per week, whatever) so he can go places that he won't go on a live situation. And if he has Izzy and Dough singing backing vocals to help him and harmonize with him it will most likely sound fantastic. If they go for more mellow material its easier to sing. Id love a GNR acoustic album done in two weeks at this point.

 

 

 

 

one more thing...

I couldn't care less about the "Chinese Democracy material".  You have given the perfect answer for that, just "release the (...) stuff in a separate Chinese Boxset" and everyone will be happy. If $la$h, Dough, Izzy and a decent drummer were to give a go on the Axl tracks from that era, they would probably need to do some rewriting, re-structuring, re-arranging etc. That's the best (and apparently the only) way for them to "integrate themselves" into whatever solo material Axl has written. I think the only thing they should try to "preserve" is Axl's ideas, melody lines etc. No need to preserve Buckethead's or any of the other aliens presence. There is enough of that on Axl solo album and besides if there are recordings of Axl solo material with Bucketheads guitar on it then it is already preserved, right?

 

[Tom-Ass]

I picked option 4.. Option 5 is kind of redundant. 

[Tadsy]

I’m probably in the minority here but I’m past caring about a new album now. 

Any new album (if there ever is one) will feature the aliens on it and that doesn’t interest me even if 3/5ths of AFD is on it. 

Leave the legacy in tact and the catalogue alone now... CD already tarnished it once 😜

 

just release the illusions stuff properly and do some interviews or a book Axl... that will do me. 

[El Guapo]

Mh, best option would be AFD5 writing a new album from scratch. Not gonna happen.

Next best option: The current band writing 6-10 brand new songs and record them. Add the best songs from Axl's vault, completely rerecorded by the current band with brand new vocals from Axl.

I really, really hope the next album (if there is one) is not some kind of mishmash featuring long gone players and vocal tracks from all kinds of years/ sessions. That would give the album a similar vibe as Chinese and it would make the band look weak and fake.

[DieselDaisy]

Whatever produces the best album. 

[megaguns1982]

Current band should just hit the studio and see what happens.

[Caught_in_a_Coma]

Album should be titled "Lose Your Illusions", I think the Estranged video says this at the end of it

[adamsapple]

2018: CD Box Set or 2-CD Deluxe Edition with best of those sessions and Buckethead/Finck/Fotus/Ron on guitar but no Ashba

2019: New REAL Guns N' Roses album, preferably with Izzy and Steven for studio but Fortus is VERY welcome to add guiitars and song ideas for the album as well

2020: World Tour

2021: UYI Anniversary Box Set incl. documentary, pro shot concert (not Tokyo!) + Making Fucking Videos Part I, II and IV on DVD

[Apollo]

If there are 2-3 songs that really mean something to Axl, bring those to Slash/Duff. 

Releasing the remaining CD session songs on ITunes. It cleans out the vault. It gives fans new music. And it allows guys like Bumble and Bucket the opportunity to get paid for their work. And since it’s an iTunes songs release, Axl doesn’t face the pressure and criticism of releasing a “gnr” album that doesn’t have Slash:Duff  

Current GnR write and release a new album in Summer of 2019. Nine new songs and the three songs Axl brought with him (the general and Atlas or whatever). 

As a fan I would be in hog heaven to get 20-25 new Axl Rose songs in the next year. 

[Nick85]

I think a mix is probably the most realistic scenario, since it pretty much pleases everyone.  Would give us a chance to hear the best of whatever else is 'in the can' already, and I'm sure Slash and Duff will only elevate it. 

[SlashisGOD]

I’d  personally like the album to be written by Slash and Duff with contributions from Matt and Gilby but never gonna happen. I hope Izzy is involved to some extent.

[DTV88]

 

8 hours ago, Apollo said:

If there are 2-3 songs that really mean something to Axl, bring those to Slash/Duff. 

Releasing the remaining CD session songs on ITunes. It cleans out the vault. It gives fans new music. And it allows guys like Bumble and Bucket the opportunity to get paid for their work. And since it’s an iTunes songs release, Axl doesn’t face the pressure and criticism of releasing a “gnr” album that doesn’t have Slash:Duff  

Current GnR write and release a new album in Summer of 2019. Nine new songs and the three songs Axl brought with him (the general and Atlas or whatever). 

As a fan I would be in hog heaven to get 20-25 new Axl Rose songs in the next year. 

IF there is an album, and that's a big IF, it will absolutely include some CD era songs along with newly composed songs written by Axl / Slash / Duff / Fortus. Now that they're enjoying the huge financial windfall of the semi-reunion, I just can't see the next GnR release having any of Buckethead, Robin, Bumblefoot or Tommy. However, I do agree that the CD era stuff should just be released in whatever "final" versions Axl has.

[bdinan]

An all Synth Album with Melissa Reese called "Reese's (Master)Pieces" 

[Euchre]

Ideal world is AFD5 putting out 1 tune that they all had input into....

[bigpoop]

Slash and Duff integrate themselves into Chinese Democracy outtakes being extra careful not to disturb Buckethead's contributions?

 

Not that one.

[Gnrcane]

On 8/22/2018 at 7:48 PM, RONIN said:

Agreed. If we're working with the assumption that Axl's vocals are toast even in the studio, the only viable option is to use his completed vocal takes from the Chinese sessions. That's the current limitation that the band faces right out of the gate.

Then you have the Izzy MIA situation...

 

I would guess that Axl could produce good vocals (not 1980s vocals) in the studio. He can record one line at a time and do multiple takes.

Live for the most part the problem is his voice runs out of steam and switches to "clean." There are several examples of Patience where the outtro starts like it's 1991 again and then suddenly switches.

Plus, new songs could be written for him to stay in the range he can sing best now.