Izzy walked out on NITL in 2016 after soundcheck

[Order of Nine]

Boring..

Why hope, beg, plead, debate over a guy who's gripe seems to solely be about money.

If that's what his decision hinges upon then I'm glad he didn't follow thru.

 

[Rayno]

5 minutes ago, Order of Nine said:

Boring..

Why hope, beg, plead, debate over a guy who's gripe seems to solely be about money.

If that's what his decision hinges upon then I'm glad he didn't follow thru.

 

While the other guys are totally NOT interested in money whatsoever. C'mon.

[Ratam]

Someone know if Izzy Birthday is on march or april? I not sure.

[Order of Nine]

10 minutes ago, Rayno said:

While the other guys are totally NOT interested in money whatsoever. C'mon.

Do you realize how much money had been on the table in the past?????

If it was all about the money this would have happened a long time ago.

Think.

[Rayno]

2 minutes ago, Order of Nine said:

Do you realize how much money had been on the table in the past?????

If it was all about the money this would have happened a long time ago.

Think.

I am not gonna start this again for thousand time. I did not say it was solely about money. I just say Izzy has every right to demand any amount that make him feel comfortable and being treated fair. And the other guys have every right to refuse. Your logic could be used the other way around - if they would be interested in something else than money, they would give him what he wanted. Anyway, this debate leads nowhere.

[Order of Nine]

34 minutes ago, Rayno said:

I am not gonna start this again for thousand time. I did not say it was solely about money. I just say Izzy has every right to demand any amount that make him feel comfortable and being treated fair. And the other guys have every right to refuse. Your logic could be used the other way around - if they would be interested in something else than money, they would give him what he wanted. Anyway, this debate leads nowhere.

Just pointing out that's the only reason he gave. If that's it then that's lame. 

[DieselDaisy]

It would've been funnier if Izzy had based his reasoning around ''a dislike of fat people''. 

[double talkin jive mfkr]

im guessing it was a massive combo - 1) join band for cameos which includes all additional hired hands 2) low ball park offer take it or leave it 

[Carmenjello]

2 hours ago, DieselDaisy said:

It would've been funnier if Izzy had based his reasoning around ''a dislike of fat people''. 

Oh yes, so hilarious. Every 5th grader would’ve laughed with you.

[RussTCB]

2 hours ago, DieselDaisy said:

It would've been funnier if Izzy had based his reasoning around ''a dislike of fat people''. 

"Fear Of Animated Rodent Mascot Sounds"?

[AncientEvil80]

On 3/3/2018 at 8:43 PM, Order of Nine said:

The guy never wanted to play for more then 2000/3000 a night. Axl wanted to be mega huge, that's another factor people fail to address. 

What a huge BS myth/assumption.... I'm pretty positive Izzy had his ambitions and expectations in the early days too, as well as his preferences and likes/dislikes... and it certainly wasn't a 4k payday that made him thinking "I gotta get out"... of the mess that band had become by then (91)... it's fucking ridiculous. 

[Order of Nine]

1 minute ago, AncientEvil80 said:

What a huge BS myth/assumption.... I'm pretty positive Izzy had his ambitions and expectations in the early days too, as well as his preferences and likes/dislikes... and it certainly wasn't a 4k payday that made him thinking "I gotta get out"... of the mess that band had become by then (91)... it's fucking ridiculous. 

No, that goes back to what Axl said about the difference in vision those two had. That isn't a "theory".

[AncientEvil80]

1 minute ago, Order of Nine said:

No, that goes back to what Axl said about the difference in vision those two had. That isn't a "theory".

So what? I wouldn't put too much weight on whatever Axl said back then of at any moment after Izzy left about anything GNR related... the man was already spiritually lost. Let alone from an artistic point of view. But that's a different story altogether, I believe...

Would Izzy's alleged preference of playing in small venues be worse for the band than Axl's mega-vision a priori, artistically speaking? What's that got to do with NITL 3union?

Bah, whatever. You have your own opinion and I have mine. Over facts we don't even know 100% about...

[Tucknroll]

Maybe this is why they don't give many interviews.  Every detail of gnr will piss one of the others off. I'm kinda understanding axl more I think. He's like, let's go play, make money and be huge. He may be a better business man than duff. If not then he wouldn't own the name and be the boss

[Order of Nine]

1 hour ago, AncientEvil80 said:

So what? I wouldn't put too much weight on whatever Axl said back then of at any moment after Izzy left about anything GNR related... the man was already spiritually lost. Let alone from an artistic point of view. But that's a different story altogether, I believe...

Would Izzy's alleged preference of playing in small venues be worse for the band than Axl's mega-vision a priori, artistically speaking? What's that got to do with NITL 3union?

Bah, whatever. You have your own opinion and I have mine. Over facts we don't even know 100% about...

It's got alot to do with it. Axl wanted things on another level. Worldwide stadium tours and million dollar videos. Izzy wanted nothing to do with that but now he's butt hurt about the money not being spilt equally??!? 

Those are not opinions, he hated the videos and hated all the demands of that route the band was already on. 

[Powderfinger]

48 minutes ago, Tucknroll said:

Maybe this is why they don't give many interviews.  Every detail of gnr will piss one of the others off. I'm kinda understanding axl more I think. He's like, let's go play, make money and be huge. He may be a better business man than duff. If not then he wouldn't own the name and be the boss

Maybe, just maybe, it was not Bill Baileys business acumen that allowed him to gain ownership of the name, but it was the asshole dictator who surrounded himself with yes men and bullied and threatened his way into getting the name. 

Axls Business style: Start a company with 5 people. Have it become successful with the talents of each person. Get rid of each partner and their talent 1 at a time. Drive the company into the ground, stop trading for 7 years, stop making product for 15 years. Proceed to Vegas, do not pass go, do not collect $200........

This guys a great musician but he’s a terrible terrible business man. He would be how many times richer if he kept guns together? I’m guessing the old guns would release 3 albums in 15 years. Then tour them. $$$$$$ mega bucks $$$$$$

 

[Order of Nine]

13 minutes ago, Powderfinger said:

Maybe, just maybe, it was not Bill Baileys business acumen that allowed him to gain ownership of the name, but it was the asshole dictator who surrounded himself with yes men and bullied and threatened his way into getting the name. 

Axls Business style: Start a company with 5 people. Have it become successful with the talents of each person. Get rid of each partner and their talent 1 at a time. Drive the company into the ground, stop trading for 7 years, stop making product for 15 years. Proceed to Vegas, do not pass go, do not collect $200........

This guys a great musician but he’s a terrible terrible business man. He would be how many times richer if he kept guns together? I’m guessing the old guns would release 3 albums in 15 years. Then tour them. $$$$$$ mega bucks $$$$$$

 

And I'm thankful he's not like Kiss in that respect. It's not always about the money 100% of the time 24/7. 

If it was then he would have caved in and done this a long time ago.

[Powderfinger]

22 minutes ago, Order of Nine said:

And I'm thankful he's not like Kiss in that respect. It's not always about the money 100% of the time 24/7. 

If it was then he would have caved in and done this a long time ago.

Exactly, he’s a true artist. 

Edited March 5, 2018 by Powderfinger

[RONIN]

1 hour ago, Powderfinger said:

Exactly, he’s a true artist. 

Artists make art though. Axl doesn't make or release anything except overpriced leather jackets and coffee mugs.

1 hour ago, Order of Nine said:

And I'm thankful he's not like Kiss in that respect. It's not always about the money 100% of the time 24/7. 

If it was then he would have caved in and done this a long time ago.

That's why he rehashed the Chinese Democracy tour for the last 15 years and played 30 year old Appetite songs every show. Because it isn't about the money. 

[Gnrcane]

2 hours ago, Order of Nine said:

It's got alot to do with it. Axl wanted things on another level. Worldwide stadium tours and million dollar videos. Izzy wanted nothing to do with that but now he's butt hurt about the money not being spilt equally??!? 

Those are not opinions, he hated the videos and hated all the demands of that route the band was already on. 

Essentially, I think Axl wanted GNR to be Queen and Izzy wanted GNR to be a rock and roll band.

I don't think Izzy didn't want to be successful, I just don't think he wanted to be part of a musical circus.

[Tom2112]

8 minutes ago, RONIN said:

Artists make art though. Axl doesn't make or release anything except overpriced leather jackets and coffee mugs.

That's why he rehashed the Chinese Democracy tour for the last 15 years and played 30 year old Appetite songs every show. Because it isn't about the money. 

Look when he's on the road, it's all about the money. When he's writing he is a artist through and through. I consider him more of a artist than some other bands that churn out record after record, difference is the level of thought and reasoning for the record; is it released just to tour and make some new merch for your audience, or is a artistic statement? In my opinion Axl is latter type of musician. Yep, he wants it to sell as much as possible, but if you look at how he made and handled CD, it's hard to say he isn't a artist.

CD is a completely uncommercial effort, a huge risk and despite a huge backlash he has not backed down on the record... name one other band that has released a record that got that much negativity upon its release and 10 years later they still play 3-5 songs a night, I can't think of any. Most bands have a popular record, and once the tour ends and they go back out again there's no sign of any of that album, it's just the hits. 

[Tucknroll]

2 hours ago, Powderfinger said:

Maybe, just maybe, it was not Bill Baileys business acumen that allowed him to gain ownership of the name, but it was the asshole dictator who surrounded himself with yes men and bullied and threatened his way into getting the name. 

Axls Business style: Start a company with 5 people. Have it become successful with the talents of each person. Get rid of each partner and their talent 1 at a time. Drive the company into the ground, stop trading for 7 years, stop making product for 15 years. Proceed to Vegas, do not pass go, do not collect $200........

This guys a great musician but he’s a terrible terrible business man. He would be how many times richer if he kept guns together? I’m guessing the old guns would release 3 albums in 15 years. Then tour them. $$$$$$ mega bucks $$$$$$

 

He's a great business man who gets shit on for telling the truth and looking after himself. His 4 business partners would be dead if they stayed together probably.  Slash was a junkie on the verge of death, duff was a drunk close to death, Izzy was a flake who didn't want  the hassle, and Steven was too drugged to record. I believe him that he wanted the name because they were ready to drop dead and he didn't want the hassle of sharing with whatever whores the others were married to or their other family members

[Powderfinger]

31 minutes ago, Gnrcane said:

Essentially, I think Axl wanted GNR to be Queen and Izzy wanted GNR to be a rock and roll band.

I don't think Izzy didn't want to be successful, I just don't think he wanted to be part of a musical circus.

I think Izzy wanted Guns to be a rock n roll band for sure, but he was also ok with Axl wanting it to be Queen. However when it got to be “Queen”  Axl didn’t let Izzy do his rock n roll thing the way he had let Axl do his. He complained about Izzy just standing there on stage and not giving as much energy as him and Slash! I loved how Izzy just kinda wandered around in a circle in his own little world. His part in the bands image was being laid back and kinda Keith Richards like. He was cool. Axl was dangerous & volatile.

Izzy probably didn’t piss and moan at Axl for running around in a diaper and Doc Martens every night. Changing diapers 2-3 times a show.... 

I agree he seems like the kind of guy who prefers to do things quietly. He got the same result as Axl after all, just in his own way.  

[RONIN]

2 minutes ago, Tucknroll said:

He's a great business man who gets shit on for telling the truth and looking after himself. His 4 business partners would be dead if they stayed together probably.  Slash was a junkie on the verge of death, duff was a drunk close to death, Izzy was a flake who didn't want  the hassle, and Steven was too drugged to record. I believe him that he wanted the name because they were ready to drop dead and he didn't want the hassle of sharing with whatever whores the others were married to or their other family members

The flake was there for every single show though. Izzy never missed a single GnR show. How about the other guy? Was he showing up to the gigs? What has Axl done with the name since 1993? How many records has he put out? How many tour documentaries? How many live albums? Has he done anything? So he took the name and did sweet nothing with it and this is to be celebrated? Axl doesn't have a moral high ground here. 

In 1991, Soundgarden opened for Guns N’ Roses. What do you remember most about that tour?

Without saying anything negative about Axl, what I remember the most was Duff and Slash and everyone else being regular, sweet, warm guys in a rock band that just wanted to play rock music. And then, like, there was this Wizard of Oz character behind the curtain that seemed to complicate what was the most ideal situation they could ever have been in: They were the most successful and famous rock band on the planet. Every single show, hundreds of thousands of fans just wanted to hear songs. For some reason there seemed to be this obstacle in just going out and participating in that. That is what I remember the most. It’s sad.  - Chris Cornell

http://www.vulture.com/2012/11/soundgarden-chris-cornell-interview.html

[RONIN]

30 minutes ago, Tom2112 said:

Look when he's on the road, it's all about the money. When he's writing he is a artist through and through. I consider him more of a artist than some other bands that churn out record after record, difference is the level of thought and reasoning for the record; is it released just to tour and make some new merch for your audience, or is a artistic statement? In my opinion Axl is latter type of musician. Yep, he wants it to sell as much as possible, but if you look at how he made and handled CD, it's hard to say he isn't a artist.

CD is a completely uncommercial effort, a huge risk and despite a huge backlash he has not backed down on the record... name one other band that has released a record that got that much negativity upon its release and 10 years later they still play 3-5 songs a night, I can't think of any. Most bands have a popular record, and once the tour ends and they go back out again there's no sign of any of that album, it's just the hits. 

I think we're mostly in agreement. I absolutely consider Axl an artist and as you said, his writing process is certainly indicative of that. But I think somewhere around the departure of Buckethead, the art went out the window and commerce became the focus. That's the thing, where is the focus of Axl Rose these days? As Sean Beavan recently said, the bulk of the songs and vocals on CD are from 1999. That's nearly 20 years ago. 

Axl is a confusing guy. He does certain things which are high in integrity (refusing to compromise and not saying yes to certain easy money-making ventures) but then he'll keep doing tours where he sings the same songs that by his own admission he's sick of singing or he'll put up a piss poor GnR website to hock cheap merchandise. If Axl is that tired of singing Appetite songs (no one would blame him for this), don't sing them at your shows. That's the death of an artist right there. Prince didn't sing Purple Rain or When Doves Cry at most of his shows. Didn't Billy Corgan stop singing his hit songs at his shows?