Izzy walked out on NITL in 2016 after soundcheck

[Powderfinger]

19 minutes ago, Tucknroll said:

He's a great business man who gets shit on for telling the truth and looking after himself. His 4 business partners would be dead if they stayed together probably.  Axl had some personality disorder, made worse by various drugs, Slash was a junkie on the verge of death, duff was a drunk close to death, Izzy was a flake who didn't want  the hassle, and Steven was too drugged to record. I believe him that he wanted the name because they were ready to drop dead and he didn't want the hassle of sharing with whatever whores the others were married to or their other family members

So for the period of 97 onward, once Duff and Slash, Izzy and Steven were gone, up to the NITL tour, what did this businessman achieve? He ran the brand into the ground, spent millions, ended a Vegas act. 

The only good business decision he has made in 30 years was to bring back the guys you said fucked it up in the first place!

Wouldn’t it have made more sense to have mad this type of money all along? 

I made an addition to your statement as I know hands down it would be easier deal with Slash, Izzy , Duff, and Steven drunk or high than it would dealing with Axl stone straight sober. 

Edited March 5, 2018 by Powderfinger

[Gibson87]

3 minutes ago, RONIN said:

What has Axl done with the name since 1993? How many records has he put out? How many tour documentaries? How many live albums? Has he done anything? So he took the name and did sweet nothing with it and this is to be celebrated? Axl doesn't have a moral high ground here. 

Guns N' Roses was Axl's band from the very beginning. The rights to the name should be his. Was he responsible for the whole thing falling apart? Definitely, all 5 of them were, but whether or not he did anything is irrelevant because it's his band. It always has been.

[Powderfinger]

1 minute ago, Gibson_Guy87 said:

Guns N' Roses was Axl's band from the very beginning. The rights to the name should be his. Was he responsible for the whole thing falling apart? Definitely, all 5 of them were, but whether or not he did anything is irrelevant because it's his band. It always has been.

Explain what a band is.

[RONIN]

You want to talk about a brand disintegrating right before your eyes, look no further than 1994-2015 era GnR. Straight up brand implosion. The GnR brand would be as valuable as U2 and Metallica if Axl had simply continued to put out albums with Slash through the 90's and 00's. They were at a point after Illusions where all they had to do was coast just like Metallica. Even that proved to be impossible sadly. 

[Gibson87]

14 minutes ago, Powderfinger said:

Explain what a band is.

Explain your post

[Powderfinger]

22 minutes ago, Gibson_Guy87 said:

Guns N' Roses was Axl's band from the very beginning. The rights to the name should be his. Was he responsible for the whole thing falling apart? Definitely, all 5 of them were, but whether or not he did anything is irrelevant because it's his band. It always has been.

Given that you think it’s Axls band and everything else is irrelevant because it’s his band, you must have an understanding of what a band is.

I’m wondering if you could explain what you think a band is. 

[Gibson87]

3 minutes ago, Powderfinger said:

Given that you think it’s Axls band and everything else is irrelevant because it’s his band, you must have an understanding of what a band is.

I’m wondering if you could explain what you think a band is. 

A band is a group of people who play music. 

[IncitingChaos]

30 minutes ago, RONIN said:

You want to talk about a brand disintegrating right before your eyes, look no further than 1994-2015 era GnR. Straight up brand implosion. The GnR brand would be as valuable as U2 and Metallica if Axl had simply continued to put out albums with Slash through the 90's and 00's. They were at a point after Illusions where all they had to do was coast just like Metallica. Even that proved to be impossible sadly. 

Luckily for Axl most people ignored GNR from 94-15 and thus only remember the classic band. The gnr brand is still strong in terms of their commercial success, it’s not like their name turned into Nickelback. 

Part of the appeal of gnr was how fast they came on and how fast it disappeared. It added a level of mystery. However if they had continued releasing music with Slash and the music was good then I could see how that would have elevated their status. 

Somehow, imo they got lucky and people remember them as a classic rock band which puts them in that category of Queen,  Led Zeppelin, Rolling Stones, Pink Floyd. Basically bands with iconic names and huge stage presence. Their number of hits in a short time helped that legacy. 

So while Axl didn’t help the legacy people actually remembered the band as they wanted to. 

[Powderfinger]

52 minutes ago, Gibson_Guy87 said:

A band is a group of people who play music. 

 

So it can’t be “his” then can it. A group of people cannot belong to Axl. 

Axl was a member of the group same as Steven, Izzy, Slash & Duff. He was an egomaniac and thought HE WAS the group!

[Gibson87]

7 minutes ago, Powderfinger said:

 

So it can’t be “his” then can it. A group of people cannot belong to Axl. 

Axl was a member of the group same as Steven, Izzy, Slash & Duff. He was an egomaniac and thought HE WAS the group!

You're taking this way too literally.

See ya around man, I'm out 

[Powderfinger]

1 hour ago, Gibson_Guy87 said:

Guns N' Roses was Axl's band from the very beginning. The rights to the name should be his. Was he responsible for the whole thing falling apart? Definitely, all 5 of them were, but whether or not he did anything is irrelevant because it's his band. It always has been.

 

10 minutes ago, Gibson_Guy87 said:

You're taking this way too literally.

See ya around man, I'm out 

I literally made the mistake of assuming you meant what you said. 

[shotsfired cro]

On 03. 03. 2018. at 3:24 AM, MildlyArtistic said:

If I'm honest, the reason most of the general public cares is because it's Axl and Slash back together. As far as public perception of Guns N' Roses goes, GNR is Axl and Slash, maybe Duff too.

Hardcore fans might think Izzy, Steven, Matt, Gilbly, Paul, or Buckethead are the real Guns N' Roses, but the public doesn't care about anyone besides Axl and Slash.

Actually, if you look at the liniar notes, the truth is somewhat different.

There is a huge difference between reunion and Axl and Slash reunion, this board prooves it.

If there is 90.000 a a stadium, how many of them do you think surf the GNR sites on daily basis and look up who is in the band?

Maybe 5.000? Let's say majority went to see band cause it said GNR smw, regardless of who is in it, a large part thought if its Slash, Ax, Duff - it is probably THE GNR. 

Regardless.

I consider myself a hardcore that waited 25 years to see them get along and I now don't give a fuck about this crappy bend we got.

I am ok with Steve not being able to play - give me Matt, I am ok if Izzy is not in the band - give me Gilby.  What the fuck Melissa is doing on that stage!?!?

I now have the situation where each of the past members who actually recorded music this band now plays say 'we wanted to be in, but we were not let'. FUCK that. After 30 years - I lost patience with this shit and Axl can't sing anyway. His worst concert in UYI era is vocally 70% better than the best of NITL tour. Am I gonna pay a ticket to see that SHIT? Hell no!

Also, Buckethead or Paul can not fit the same sentance as Matt, Izzy and Gilby. Those guys were OFFICIAL members who recorded and played music Melissa, Frank, Fortus, Pitmann and all those poor fuckers are butchering now.

If you don't agree, fine, go see them and that is ok for me. But don't question my thoughts and my calls, don't go with immature arguments 'live in the '90s', for according to all PRO shots we have 2017 wasn't a bleak copy of 1987-93.

Axl - can't sing.

Frank - plays like shit.

Melissa - doing what?

Fortus - total lack of any charisma. maybe good for tribute band.

Dizzy - not worse than before. so ok.  So it comes down to Slash and Duff 2018, where all the way to TSI - we had a band.

[double talkin jive mfkr]

4 minutes ago, shotsfired cro said:

Actually, if you look at the liniar notes, the truth is somewhat different.

There is a huge difference between reunion and Axl and Slash reunion, this board prooves it.

If there is 90.000 a a stadium, how many of them do you think surf the GNR sites on daily basis and look up who is in the band?

Maybe 5.000? Let's say majority went to see band cause it said GNR smw, regardless of who is in it, a large part thought if its Slash, Ax, Duff - it is probably THE GNR. 

Regardless.

I consider myself a hardcore that waited 25 years to see them get along and I now don't give a fuck about this crappy bend we got.

I am ok with Steve not being able to play - give me Matt, I am ok if Izzy is not in the band - give me Gilby.  What the fuck Melissa is doing on that stage!?!?

I now have the situation where each of the past members who actually recorded music this band now plays say 'we wanted to be in, but we were not let'. FUCK that. After 30 years - I lost patience with this shit and Axl can't sing anyway. His worst concert in UYI era is vocally 70% better than the best of NITL tour. Am I gonna pay a ticket to see that SHIT? Hell no!

Also, Buckethead or Paul can not fit the same sentance as Matt, Izzy and Gilby. Those guys were OFFICIAL members who recorded and played music Melissa, Frank, Fortus, Pitmann and all those poor fuckers are butchering now.

If you don't agree, fine, go see them and that is ok for me. But don't question my thoughts and my calls, don't go with immature arguments 'live in the '90s', for according to all PRO shots we have 2017 wasn't a bleak copy of 1987-93.

Axl - can't sing.

Frank - plays like shit.

Melissa - doing what?

Fortus - total lack of any charisma. maybe good for tribute band.

Dizzy - not worse than before. so ok.  So it comes down to Slash and Duff 2018, where all the way to TSI - we had a band.

agree big time- its time to call a spade a spade 

axl did well with acdc because its a yelling genre which he pulled off but he can't sing a proper note anymore really 

the smartest thing he could do now is improve the bands sound with chopping all the fat and put in sorum gilby and/or izzy

[Rayno]

1 hour ago, Gibson_Guy87 said:

You're taking this way too literally.

See ya around man, I'm out 

I really hope so.

[SoulMonster]

3 hours ago, RONIN said:

You want to talk about a brand disintegrating right before your eyes, look no further than 1994-2015 era GnR. Straight up brand implosion. The GnR brand would be as valuable as U2 and Metallica if Axl had simply continued to put out albums with Slash through the 90's and 00's. They were at a point after Illusions where all they had to do was coast just like Metallica. Even that proved to be impossible sadly. 

It's impossible to say what trajectory the brand would have had, even if they had continued releasing albums with Axl and Slash. It really depends on the quality of the albums and how they would fit with what people wanted. This is just speculation.

Personally, after the UYI lineup disintegrated, I think it is a marvelous success on Axl's part for being able to keep the band rolling all the way to this day. The output has been abysmal, but the band has never disappeared, and now it seems to have gained lots of popularity (only nostalgia, though).

[Tadsy]

2 hours ago, shotsfired cro said:

Actually, if you look at the liniar notes, the truth is somewhat different.

There is a huge difference between reunion and Axl and Slash reunion, this board prooves it.

If there is 90.000 a a stadium, how many of them do you think surf the GNR sites on daily basis and look up who is in the band?

Maybe 5.000? Let's say majority went to see band cause it said GNR smw, regardless of who is in it, a large part thought if its Slash, Ax, Duff - it is probably THE GNR. 

Regardless.

I consider myself a hardcore that waited 25 years to see them get along and I now don't give a fuck about this crappy bend we got.

I am ok with Steve not being able to play - give me Matt, I am ok if Izzy is not in the band - give me Gilby.  What the fuck Melissa is doing on that stage!?!?

I now have the situation where each of the past members who actually recorded music this band now plays say 'we wanted to be in, but we were not let'. FUCK that. After 30 years - I lost patience with this shit and Axl can't sing anyway. His worst concert in UYI era is vocally 70% better than the best of NITL tour. Am I gonna pay a ticket to see that SHIT? Hell no!

Also, Buckethead or Paul can not fit the same sentance as Matt, Izzy and Gilby. Those guys were OFFICIAL members who recorded and played music Melissa, Frank, Fortus, Pitmann and all those poor fuckers are butchering now.

If you don't agree, fine, go see them and that is ok for me. But don't question my thoughts and my calls, don't go with immature arguments 'live in the '90s', for according to all PRO shots we have 2017 wasn't a bleak copy of 1987-93.

Axl - can't sing.

Frank - plays like shit.

Melissa - doing what?

Fortus - total lack of any charisma. maybe good for tribute band.

Dizzy - not worse than before. so ok.  So it comes down to Slash and Duff 2018, where all the way to TSI - we had a band.

I tend to agree with this line of thought. I'll admit I was one of the suckers who paid the $180 bucks for a ticket to NITL, I paid $400 for a shitty hotel room and I bought t shirt for $50 and was just happy to witness my 2 favorite idols on stage in the flesh. I lived every moment and I won't lie, I loved the fact that I got to see it happen! It was a true bucket list moment ticked off for me! 

However.... if I look back at that show, I see a pale imitation of what my band (yes my band) has become and what it is today! 

Look, frank is probably a nice guy! Obviously loyal to Axl and that's commendable but he's not GNR. He's competent but he makes some honest mistakes at the shows that do stand out. I don't hate him but I certainly realise that's he's not giving a performance that Matt (and maybe Steven health prevailing) would give if they were there! 

Im not sexist, but I'm lost as f*** as to what Melissa brings to the table. I know people on here like her and they crap on about a synth here or there, but it honestly doesn't matter one iota to me to hear it. I just don't get it. Maybe it's axls way of adding a modern touch to the band?? Who the fuck knows? 

Fortus is similar to frank in terms of the loyalty factor, and I honestly like him as a player and his character can't be questioned. He's definitely good enough to do everything competently. But... in terms of this tour, izzy then Gilby were obviously the majority of the hardcore fans first pic. 

Dizzy is dizzy, can't whinge about his contributions, no issue. 

Slash has carried these shows and his playing is pretty much tighter than ever. Duff too. 

Which brings me to Axl. He's mid 50s and for his age, he's pretty good. In fact he's fucking good for his age. But he's down a level on AC DC performances and that grates me, we can speculate why till the cows come home... I don't really know. I still think Axl could do more to be in better physical shape which would/should contribute to better vocal performances but it is what it is. 

I look at the shows from 91/93 and the whole band was rough, but they were an animal and that's how I prefer to remember them, I've come to grips with the fact it can't be like that anymore. But hell... I'm a nostalgic mother fucker and watch those bits and pieces and no band has ever got me that excited like they did back then. I don't think we will ever see it again from another band like gnr did it, so I just choose to enjoy what we have now, even though it's no where near perfect I guess. And if I want a trip back down memory lane, I pop a beer and watch on YouTube! It is what it is. 

[AncientEvil80]

8 hours ago, Gibson_Guy87 said:

Guns N' Roses was Axl's band from the very beginning. The rights to the name should be his. Was he responsible for the whole thing falling apart? Definitely, all 5 of them were, but whether or not he did anything is irrelevant because it's his band. It always has been.

Get the fuck outta here. It was never Axl's band from the very beginning. As a matter of fact, he was the one volatile member who ALMOST got kicked out of it more than once. By other band members and even management. 

Goddammit, what does it take for people to understand that GNR ain't GNR without the full AFD5 line-up? I give up. LOL

[Order of Nine]

11 hours ago, RONIN said:

Artists make art though. Axl doesn't make or release anything except overpriced leather jackets and coffee mugs.

That's why he rehashed the Chinese Democracy tour for the last 15 years and played 30 year old Appetite songs every show. Because it isn't about the money. 

If it was really about the money he would have called Duff and Slash back. Nice try. But I think we all know what tour has made guns the most money since 2001 now right?

 

[Order of Nine]

11 hours ago, Gnrcane said:

Essentially, I think Axl wanted GNR to be Queen and Izzy wanted GNR to be a rock and roll band.

I don't think Izzy didn't want to be successful, I just don't think he wanted to be part of a musical circus.

Yeah I think Izzy obviously hated how all the videos were played out, all the money he thought was wasted. Izzy wanted to retain more of that street credibility and Axl always wants to move on.

[Tucknroll]

Axl definitely had problems but most of them were mental illness I think which is hard to bag on. The others were just junkies. 

[Tadsy]

I think it's almost impossible to stand in one of these characters corners specifically and defend their position to the end. There is just too much that's happened. There is to many variables, too many people and too many crossed over stories from unreliables on all sides. 

They are all to blame for the demise of gnr post 93. They all need to shoulder the blame. 

Perhaps privately they have made concessions and do shoulder their parts in the breakdown, I would suggest Axl and Slash would both have conceded a lot to get this tour up and running. 

The story of GNR is what happens when uneducated people find mega success who aren't ready for it and/or prepared for the money, success, power and snakes in the grass who come to feed on it at their expense. Add drugs, women and alcohol. You have a recipe for a major cluster fuck of all proportions which is how it played out. The Miracle of it all is the high quality level of music that still emerged even though all these factors were in the mixer. And they're all still alive. 

Quite remarkable really. 

[killuridols]

3 hours ago, Tucknroll said:

Axl definitely had problems but most of them were mental illness I think which is hard to bag on. The others were just junkies. 

Drugaddiction IS a disease.

[RONIN]

11 hours ago, Order of Nine said:

If it was really about the money he would have called Duff and Slash back. Nice try. But I think we all know what tour has made guns the most money since 2001 now right?

 

Your posts are maddening but also strangely amusing in a masochistic kind of way. 

I can't figure out if you're trolling us here or if your faith in Axl Rose is really that strong. Well done sir. 

[Order of Nine]

1 hour ago, RONIN said:

Your posts are maddening but also strangely amusing in a masochistic kind of way. 

I can't figure out if you're trolling us here or if your faith in Axl Rose is really that strong. Well done sir. 

Thanks.

I'm just a bit ahead of the curve, I'm still waiting for the majority to realize Axl is Guns. Meaning, Guns can't exist without him nor can Guns exist without him at the helm.

I deliberately waited to register here until I was certin new material would come out. 

But seriously... Why are people so butt hurt about Izzy whom obviously doesn't have his heart in this? The guy was mentally checked out durring the entire Illusions recordings and was like watching MOSS GROW at a live setting. His hearts not in it, and his little money comment made me lose some respect for the man as an artist. 

 

Edited March 6, 2018 by Order of Nine

[Order of Nine]

1 hour ago, killuridols said:

Drugaddiction IS a disease.

No it's not... Thats some NA nonsense. But what do you expect with the number 3 commodity in the world??