Our Interview with Doug Goldstein (Former GNR Manager)

[EricA]

Everything @Carmenjellowrote is very true, and @tremolosummarized very well why they are NOT professional managers! But I also believe that Axl's current state of mind (which is definitely better today than it was back in the 90s) still has a lot to do with TB, that does not make them better managers at all, but i think Axl turned into someone, with whom it's easier to work with because of them, which the whole band, especially Duff and Slash might benefit from, and that's the only reason why these two except TB as official GnR managers, i'm pretty sure Duff+Slash do know very well how poor the whole thing (promotion, social media,...) is handled ! So from my POV, yes TB are amateurs, but everything is better than a fucking freaky Axl

Edited March 29, 2018 by EricA

[DieselDaisy]

No interviews. No albums. Just tours the hits every year. How should they conceivably manage Rose then?

[Ratam]

1 hour ago, tremolo said:

The problem is that TB never was a team of people in the business. They were not managers, and despite having the title, I don’t consider managers.

Their loyalty is with Axl. Not with the band, not with the fans, not with the art. They are probably the people closest to Axl, and I think they have a relationship built on love and trust. But as nice as that might be, that doesn’t make a good manager.

The manager must have the power to actually MANAGE the band in so many areas: creative output, studio work, promotion, connections, media, online presence, relationship with fans, etc. and make the most out of every given oportunity. And that includes inevitably pissing someone off at some point. A manager cannot be a yes-man, it just doesn’t work.

The management of GNR has been a disaster. So many wasted oportunities! Even if we forget everything before 2016 and focus exclusively on NITL, it’s been way less than it could have been.

Axl is resting on his laurels, and management seems ok with that, which only makes sense when you consider TB are closer to being Axl’s closest people than to being GNR’s management.

 

They don’t have it in them, just in the same way that not everybody is cut out to be a lawyer, a salesman, or an artist. Put TB to manage any other band the size of GNR and they would be out of a job in a matter of months.

Agreed absolutelly,Axl fired good managers ,but TB have free pass for wathever reason.

[Bluefish18]

1 hour ago, killuridols said:

Because this reunion is a one time thing and they will disband after the tour is over.

Seriously, if they had any plans for the future they would have said so, but they only reunited to play some shows and jump on the revival/nostalgia bandwagon so typical of this era.

Once its over, everything else will be over.

Agree 100%. Maybe some 1 off events, like Coachella. Can't ever see them doing a tour like this again.

[kiwiguns]

I don’t get some of you guys.

There is a saying, give credit where credit is due.

The facts are clear for all to see

Guns n Roses NITL tour was the highest grossing tour of 2017

The NITL tour was the fourth highest grossing tour of all time

The world tour, to this point, has had no major issues or dramas

Axl, Slash and the rest of the band seem comfortable and happy within the touring party

Credit should be given to TB.

If you can manage a successful tour and a group of individuals to create a happy touring culture you are good at what you do.

GNR have a booking agent who books the shows, linking with promoter’s worldwide to promote the tour in each city or country. That’s their job, Not TB

TB has managed Axl’s day to day business for some time.

That experience has helped them to manage GNR and their day to day business on tour.

You guys seem to think Axl, Slash and Duff, and TB don’t know what they are doing.

From the outside and objectively, it"s clear they planned to seek help in areas where they needed professional expertise. That's why they got a booking agency and agent to handle that side of the tour while TB managed the day to day operation.

Of course, they will tour again. they have a template for a successful tour and clearly a market of people who would see them live.  

Credit to all involved.  

Edited March 29, 2018 by kiwiguns

[appetite4illusions]

Doug Goldstein is wearing a Dragonball Z t-shirt.

el oh el.

[Propaganda]

Such a great interview. I had a very bad impression of Doug, but after seeing this interview, it completely changed my mind about him. Really insightful!

He's spot on on Team Brazil too...

[Tom2112]

2 hours ago, EricA said:

Everything @Carmenjellowrote is very true, and @tremolosummarized very well why they are NOT professional managers! But I also believe that Axl's current state of mind (which is definitely better today than it was back in the 90s) still has a lot to do with TB, that does not make them better managers at all, but i think Axl turned into someone, with whom it's easier to work with because of them, which the whole band, especially Duff and Slash might benefit from, and that's the only reason why these two except TB as official GnR managers, i'm pretty sure Duff+Slash do know very well how poor the whole thing (promotion, social media,...) is handled ! So from my POV, yes TB are amateurs, but everything is better than a fucking freaky Axl

TB have been in Axls life since 93? and he has only really changed in the last 3-5yrs. I can only base my opinions on rumours and the little we know, but TB seemed to shelter Axl and have secured him in a bubble. I think Axl somehow found a air hole in that bubble and finally matured. Yep, having the family unit around him definitely helped him, but they also hindered him. 

I'll never think they are competent managers, and I give them no credit for the reunion because that was 100% Axls doing that set that ball rolling, whether it was te encounter with Duff where Duff was essentially being turned away by TB, and Axl came out and welcomed Duff into his room. OR when Axl asked TB to reach out to Slash's team for his contact info so Axl could talk with him. 

I think we all knew that Axls stance on Slash was softening, none of us guessed that they were going to patch things up, but they were going to at least function and let each other use GNR material on releases etc. the point I'm getting at is that, we kinda saw this coming, and all we had to go on was Axls few public comments and a few reports... TB had unlimited access and Axl probably vented to them more than anybody... and with that you have to wonder how they didn't come to Axl and say "do you want to get back with Slash". Easy answer to why, they were content with the general operation of business, regular enough touring and money coming in the door... and if they brought it to him and he said no; they might be kicked to the kerb.

Anyway, as assistants they do a grand job, but they are far from capable managers for the no 1 touring band at the moment. And they are the no 1 touring band, in spite of their management. I can almost guarantee that TB was at the helm of that fiasco last year over the company who had a soft deal to film GNR shows.

[Propaganda]

TB are given way too much credit. Professionally they added nothing to GNR. They got Axl to release an album in what 15 years ?!? They've been unable to get Axl to release more albums, they've been unable to negotiate it with the label and get the right deal for Axl to feel motivated to release a cd. The reunion was a miracle and the best thing that could happen to any of them right now. Even though we knew that Slash and Duff we're always very keen to return, even when they were in Velvet Revolver.

Bottom line is Fernando has never worked in the music business before GNR. He doesn't have the experience or the knowledge. Neither does Beta. Both of them were just people who ran some errands in the past.

On the other hand I think that's Axl's way of saying thank you to them, for all the years they have been Family to him. He let's them get involved and learn the music business and actually have a life in it.

TB owes their life to Axl as much as Axl probably owes a big chunk of his life to them because they helped him out emotionally, but as far as getting things done, and getting Axl on the right terms to work on things and release records and having a music relationship, they're very far away of where they need to be.

Don't wan to offend anyone but that is my opinion.

Edited March 29, 2018 by Propaganda

[Ratam]

35 minutes ago, Tom2112 said:

TB have been in Axls life since 93? and he has only really changed in the last 3-5yrs. I can only base my opinions on rumours and the little we know, but TB seemed to shelter Axl and have secured him in a bubble. I think Axl somehow found a air hole in that bubble and finally matured. Yep, having the family unit around him definitely helped him, but they also hindered him. 

I'll never think they are competent managers, and I give them no credit for the reunion because that was 100% Axls doing that set that ball rolling, whether it was te encounter with Duff where Duff was essentially being turned away by TB, and Axl came out and welcomed Duff into his room. OR when Axl asked TB to reach out to Slash's team for his contact info so Axl could talk with him. 

I think we all knew that Axls stance on Slash was softening, none of us guessed that they were going to patch things up, but they were going to at least function and let each other use GNR material on releases etc. the point I'm getting at is that, we kinda saw this coming, and all we had to go on was Axls few public comments and a few reports... TB had unlimited access and Axl probably vented to them more than anybody... and with that you have to wonder how they didn't come to Axl and say "do you want to get back with Slash". Easy answer to why, they were content with the general operation of business, regular enough touring and money coming in the door... and if they brought it to him and he said no; they might be kicked to the kerb.

Anyway, as assistants they do a grand job, but they are far from capable managers for the no 1 touring band at the moment. And they are the no 1 touring band, in spite of their management. I can almost guarantee that TB was at the helm of that fiasco last year over the company who had a soft deal to film GNR shows.

Word by word, this👍

[PatrickS77]

1 hour ago, Propaganda said:

TB are given way too much credit. Professionally they added nothing to GNR. They got Axl to release an album in what 15 years ?!? They've been unable to get Axl to release more albums, they've been unable to negotiate it with the label and get the right deal for Axl to feel motivated to release a cd. The reunion was a miracle and the best thing that could happen to any of them right now. Even though we knew that Slash and Duff we're always very keen to return, even when they were in Velvet Revolver.

Bottom line is Fernando has never worked in the music business before GNR. He doesn't have the experience or the knowledge. Neither does Beta. Both of them were just people who ran some errands in the past.

On the other hand I think that's Axl's way of saying thank you to them, for all the years they have been Family to him. He let's them get involved and learn the music business and actually have a life in it.

TB owes their life to Axl as much as Axl probably owes a big chunk of his life to them because they helped him out emotionally, but as far as getting things done, and getting Axl on the right terms to work on things and release records and having a music relationship, they're very far away of where they need to be.

Don't wan to offend anyone but that is my opinion.

Maybe.  But they are also getting way too much hate. In all likelyhood (we don't really know what their deal is) they are nothing more than gloryfied assistants, who do exactly what Axl wants them to do/ do what they think Axl wants them to do (and that also includes turning away people they think will upset him). Axl had real managers for 20 years and after '93 things went the way they went. So really, to blame TB for the lack of album releases is ridiculous, when the real reason for that is Axl. Things didn't get worse when they did take over either. It has always being chaotic with Axl sabotaging everything feeling management was working against him and for their own agendas which weren't his.  The bottom line is, that he feels comfortable with TB. There is no telling how things would be if he had real managers again. A manager has to work with the artist and if they are not on the same page it's a disaster either way.

[sidman69]

glad you guys enjoyed it. Thanks for teh constructive feedback. There was some stuff i didn't want to dig into like Yoda which he brought up a few times and TB. We'll have Doug on again. I had new found respect for him after chatting with him. We are working on some cool guests I hope you guys enjoy. 

[Tom2112]

I hope Axl sees how good the AC/DC management is and says "eh... Mr. AC/DC manager... would you... would you mind managing me and my band? all I have now is a Brazilian family... and gee they're a real nice bunch, but they don't know much about band management. Help me AC/DC manager, you're my only hope" ...or something to that affect. I mean he's gonna be able to see the inner workings of that band now, and how quickly they can move... and how that is facilitated by heavy hitting management, management that manage to keep a tight ship, book huge successful tours, no leaked material in 40+ yrs under their watch or behind the scenes drama... well right up until Phil and his dirty deeds and Brian getting the boot due to his ears. 

BUT I can't see Axl booting young Fernando off his big promotion... that whole loyalty thing. 

[PatrickS77]

5 minutes ago, Tom2112 said:

I hope Axl sees how good the AC/DC management is and says "eh... Mr. AC/DC manager... would you... would you mind managing me and my band? all I have now is a Brazilian family... and gee they're a real nice bunch, but they don't know much about band management. Help me AC/DC manager, you're my only hope" ...or something to that affect. I mean he's gonna be able to see the inner workings of that band now, and how quickly they can move... and how that is facilitated by heavy hitting management, management that manage to keep a tight ship, book huge successful tours, no leaked material in 40+ yrs under their watch or behind the scenes drama... well right up until Phil and his dirty deeds and Brian getting the boot due to his ears. 

BUT I can't see Axl booting young Fernando off his big promotion... that whole loyalty thing. 

But it's not what you hope and want. You act like Axl never had a manager before. It's those experiences that made him realize that TB is what he wants/needs. And really managing AC/DC was easy. As they didn't have Axl Rose in the band.

[Ratam]

26 minutes ago, sidman69 said:

glad you guys enjoyed it. Thanks for teh constructive feedback. There was some stuff i didn't want to dig into like Yoda which he brought up a few times and TB. We'll have Doug on again. I had new found respect for him after chatting with him. We are working on some cool guests I hope you guys enjoy. 

My impression that Doug have bit resentment for TB.

[The Holographic Universe]

9 hours ago, AxlRoseCDII said:

I think the primary issue with TB is they let Axl have full control and tip toe around him and do what he says very carefully.

No new music, radio silence, etc

Just like Doug Goldstein. 

[The Holographic Universe]

2 hours ago, sidman69 said:

glad you guys enjoyed it. Thanks for teh constructive feedback. There was some stuff i didn't want to dig into like Yoda which he brought up a few times and TB. We'll have Doug on again. I had new found respect for him after chatting with him. We are working on some cool guests I hope you guys enjoy. 

Some of his timelines were way off and you had to correct him at least twice on events he should have known. That affected his credability to some degree. I found his emotions over Duff to be totally manufactured. Slash discussed this in his book about Doug pretending to care about the band members and seeing him portray that gave me insight into how disingenuous he can be.

Edited March 30, 2018 by The Holographic Universe

[Tom2112]

1 hour ago, PatrickS77 said:

But it's not what you hope and want. You act like Axl never had a manager before. It's those experiences that made him realize that TB is what he wants/needs. And really managing AC/DC was easy. As they didn't have Axl Rose in the band.

It isn't? Then I take it all back  

[shotsfired cro]

9 hours ago, Bluefish18 said:

Agree 100%. Maybe some 1 off events, like Coachella. Can't ever see them doing a tour like this again.

You both wanna bet in 2,3 years we have same set list with new found love for Izzy and Matt/Steve and another reunion run of 3 years?

[CheapJon]

On 2018-03-29 at 12:37 AM, axlinkafayette said:

Who's left at this point?

 

Mike Clink, Tom Zutaut, Robert John, Craig Duswalt, Jack Lue, Michael Barbiero, Steve Thompson, Kevin Cogill, Brain, JOsh Freese, Eric Caudieux, Billy Howerdel, Andy Wallace, Marco Beltrami, Bob Ludwig Chris Pitman, Robin Finck, Paul Tobias, Gary Sunshine?  

[appetite4illusions]

He gets factually mistaken on a number of different issues, which is to be understood when there's so much history to recall.

 

The one thing I found interesting is when he claims Nikki Sixx ripped "Dr. Feelgood" off of Slash. I don't think that's the song. I think he means "Kickstart My Heart."

Kickstart my Heart has a chorus riff that is a very similar variation to Nighttrain, with the pull-offs. There's no doubt in my mind that Nikki took that riff for Motley. 

If you watch "My favorite Riff" with Nikki and Slash, Slash mentions to him that there are a couple of GnR riffs that became Motley songs, but he doesn't seem to mind.

[6lake sa66ath]

He’s quite the character this Goldstein fella

[Blackstar]

Doug changed his version again about the contract signing off the name to Axl. In Mick Wall's book he said he was there, in Barcelona 1993, saving it from being "under duress". Now he's back at what he had been saying before: he wasn't there because his son was born and doesn't know anything about the circumstances. So did Mick Wall misquote him? Does Doug claim he did? Because he only said that Mick Wall's book made him look bad and Alan Niven a hero.

He says he didn't approve of Yoda and made a couple of attempts to talk Axl out of that thing, but it was "Axl's time and money". Then he says that Yoda told him to sell his managing company to Merck but not tell Axl, because she would tell him herself; but she didn't and Axl was mad at Doug, which resulted to him being fired. So Doug made a business decision and didn't tell Axl just because Yoda told him to, although he wasn't a "believer"? (!) He doesn't seem to be so naive. Something doesn't add up here. And that makes me think: maybe it was Doug who was using Yoda trying to manipulate Axl, and not the other way around?

Doug takes credit, among other things, for predicting SCOM would be a hit and wanting it to be the first single (he says Tom Zutaut said no), for the idea of making GnR Lies, for renegotiating the contract with Geffen to the benefit of the band (he says Niven helped but not as much as he claims) and... for Eminem getting signed (!)

I don't know if it's true that all the UYI shows were sold out; mine wasn't. Unless he was referring only to the US shows. But still I don't think they were all sold out.

The saddest thing that came out of this interview, which we already knew, is the lack of communication in the band. They communicated through Doug and everything said was filtered by him. Doug is not solely to be blamed for that, of course. But he is full of himself for being in that position and seems to have enjoyed having such power. He says he did a big service to the band by not letting Axl know how the other band members felt about him; in Mick Wall's book he said he regretted doing that (again: was he misquoted?). Of course he didn't forget to mention over and over again how much he loved Axl and everyone else.

TB may not be qualified managers and they are probably incompetent for the job, but I hope Doug Goldstein never goes near the band again.

Anyway, the interview was worth watching for a few anecdotes, many of which can be true, like:

- When Doug first met the band in 1987 he got along well with everyone except Izzy, who thought Doug was an undercover cop

- The conversation between Axl and David Lee Roth after Donington '88. David Lee Roth comes across as a big asshole.

- Axl's stepfather being an asshole.

- Dave Mustaine banging on Doug's door in RIR shouting he wanted to talk to Axl.

- Duff being scared in Bogota.

- Axl's reaction on Kurt Cobain and Shannon Hoon's deaths.

- Axl not liking Maynard from Tool for some weird Yoda related reason.

- Doug getting a phone call after an interview (the one with Mitch Lafon in 2015, I guess) by one of Axl's lawyers telling him to stop talking on behalf of Axl. Doug says he told him to fuck off, then Axl called and asked him not to do interviews because he was trying to repair a past relationship (meaning Slash). Doug says he respected Axl's wish and didn't do any more interviews; he talked to Mick Wall though, unless that was before Mitch Lafon. But now he says he sees no reason not to talk. I guess he wouldn't have imagined that Axl and Slash would work things out and he would be left out.

I was surprised there was no mention of Axl/DC during the interview, for example if Doug expected Axl to do something like that.

Edited March 30, 2018 by Blackstar

[WhazUp]

11 minutes ago, tremolo said:

But Axl is happy, he can still pretend he is a relevant rockstar and an artist, and people around just keep on clapping.

I mean he is in AC/DC and GNR playing to tens of thousands of fans on any given night for the past couple of years, if I was Axl I would be pretty happy with myself

[Propaganda]

18 hours ago, PatrickS77 said:

Maybe.  But they are also getting way too much hate. In all likelyhood (we don't really know what their deal is) they are nothing more than gloryfied assistants, who do exactly what Axl wants them to do/ do what they think Axl wants them to do (and that also includes turning away people they think will upset him). Axl had real managers for 20 years and after '93 things went the way they went. So really, to blame TB for the lack of album releases is ridiculous, when the real reason for that is Axl. Things didn't get worse when they did take over either. It has always being chaotic with Axl sabotaging everything feeling management was working against him and for their own agendas which weren't his.  The bottom line is, that he feels comfortable with TB. There is no telling how things would be if he had real managers again. A manager has to work with the artist and if they are not on the same page it's a disaster either way.

You just answered your own question and agreed with my post. They're glorified assistants - they're given way too much credit! And they do what Axl wants them to do, which means that they don't establish deadlines for Axl to work under, they don't put any kind of pressure on him and they are unable to classify properly any music that Axl does.

Edited March 30, 2018 by Propaganda