An Interview with Former Guns N’ Roses Manager Alan Niven

[PatrickS77]

On 9/2/2022 at 5:36 AM, rocknroll41 said:

Maybe he meant that Axl should’ve used his own piece of School of Athens with his own unique color scheme? Instead of taking the one from Kostabi? Idk.

Fun side fact: Mark Kostabi’s brother was the original guitarist of White Zombie, and he was the one who came up with the name Use Your Illusion for the painting.

Wouldn't that then and there create a lawsuit, if they took that painting, used it for an album they called Use your illusions and not pay that Kostabi guy? Effectively showing that Niven is an idiot and really out to scam everyone that isn't himself. I'm sure he would have taken his stake of the merchandise profit, even though he would have had less to do with it than Del James, whom he would have given a six pack for his work.

Edited September 5, 2022 by PatrickS77

[jamillos]

Imo Niven't hasn't said anything nice about Axl ever since he was fired. To him Guns ended with Steven's dismissal and that's it. It's like listening to Mick Wall during the UYI era (who did apologize years and years later). Not entirely reliable. 

[Scream of the Butterfly]

Admittedly, $75,000 seems rather excessive for a piece of art so heavily based on another artist's work.

Paying Del a six pack is going to the other extreme, but I think I can see Niven's point.

[Chester 524]

Alan says he "is of the light" and then never says anything good about anyone not named Izzy Stradlin.  

 

might be better for Alan to take a cue from Izzy and stay quiet. 

[Nice Boy]

Regarding his input on Jungle. Was it him who suggested cutting the second “when you’re high” bridge from the song?

[Blackstar]

36 minutes ago, Nice Boy said:

Regarding his input on Jungle. Was it him who suggested cutting the second “when you’re high” bridge from the song?

Yes, according to Slash.

[LunsJail]

On 9/2/2022 at 11:00 AM, guitarpatch said:

Niven thinks pretty highly of himself. He’s obviously upset that Doug crossed him, when in reality he probably would have ran things similarly if things moved forward. Everyone involved in that circle were there to squeeze every last penny out of the situation before someone died or the band imploded. There was no long term vision outside of who to tie yourself with to survive. For Doug, that was Axl. The health and well being of everyone there came last 

The album artwork thing is hilarious. He’s probably looking to get one over on everyone. If he were representing me, I’d worry that he was willing to do that to his artists as well 

“The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There’s also a negative side” - Hunter S Thompson 

Love the Hunter quote

[LunsJail]

11 hours ago, Scream of the Butterfly said:

Admittedly, $75,000 seems rather excessive for a piece of art so heavily based on another artist's work.

Paying Del a six pack is going to the other extreme, but I think I can see Niven's point.

Even if they had been legally correct in using a re-creation of an artist’s work without compensating the artist, it would have cost way more than $75k in lawyer fees to prove that in the ensuing lawsuit.

[Nice Boy]

46 minutes ago, Blackstar said:

Yes, according to Slash.

To be fair it was a wise suggestion.

I still want to know who came up with the final arrangement for the end section of Rocket Queen, since it was different before they recorded Appetite

[Sweersa]

I agree with a bit of what he said about Chinese being overproduced and bloated, with the energy gone. Had the 2000 mixes ended up being the album, it would have been much better, in addition to having the follow-up released a few years after with Buckethead on it. Probably would have been perceived better and more relevant then too.

Aside from that, I felt he was far too harsh on it. And him saying Slash improves the CD songs with live performances, what a joke. Though I do enjoy the NITL live version of the title cut. He was probably forgetting or unaware the "band" had recorded more than one or even two albums worth of material during the CD recording sessions, not that it matters now anyways, since they only put out one CD worth of material and what remains will likely only be harvested for vocals, drums (I hope), and arrangement since Slash, Duff, and Richard will re-record the guitars for most of the material. In Richard's case, re-re-record.

[Karice]

This Niven guy seems kind of resentful and  bitter. 😐🤨

Edited September 6, 2022 by Karice

[ssiscool]

14 hours ago, Karice said:

This Niven guy seems kind of stupid and bitter. 😐🤨

I may suggest reading up on the history of the band and their stories.

[Billy Cundy]

14 hours ago, Karice said:

This Niven guy seems kind of stupid and bitter. 😐🤨

He was the manager when they were a genuinely relevant musical act. From Appetite to Illusions. Literally, their peak.. I am sure there’s bitterness there, but he’s more of an authority on the band and their history than pretty much every member of this and any other fan forum combined. 

Maybe they genuinely were a bunch of dickheads to work with. 🤷🏼 seems feasible. Or he’s lying, and he was totally at fault. Who knows. Bitter? Yes. Stupid? Definitely DEFINITELY not. 

[Nice Boy]

Seems a bit of a douche move to suggest Slash can’t write songs, based on his solo stuff. Niven wouldn’t say that about Izzy, even though Izzy basically follows a format of creating lots of similar average sounding Dylan/Stones type songs as much as Slash follows a format of rewriting Aerosmith Rocks to infinity, if you want to look at it cynically.

[D..]

Funny interview. I guess we still have to thank him for his involvment back in the day, so I'm not gonna be too  harsh. It's his point of view, why not.

I just can't quite understand how he got that far in the music industry with such mediocre tastes. Doesn't mention UYI best track (Coma, by far), thinks Chinese shouldn't have been released, and the funniest part: dares saying CD tracks are better live thanks to Slash!

Yeah, no. Respect to Slash for his career & skills, but he ruins every single CD song. It's just not for him. Witnessed it live, got to compare with the previous lineup, and Bumblefoot was doing it right. Slash does not.

I can't tell if it's just bitterness at this point or just mediocre average tastes. Funny nonetheless. No wonder he didn't hear from Axl ever again.

[Powderfinger]

13 hours ago, Nice Boy said:

Seems a bit of a douche move to suggest Slash can’t write songs, based on his solo stuff. Niven wouldn’t say that about Izzy, even though Izzy basically follows a format of creating lots of similar average sounding Dylan/Stones type songs as much as Slash follows a format of rewriting Aerosmith Rocks to infinity, if you want to look at it cynically.

The truth is they never sounded better than together. Izzy’s, Slash’s, Duffs material sounded best with all 3 helping out each other, same goes for Axl, Estranged & November Rain are great, but Slash brought them to another level of great. 

[Lio]

1 hour ago, D.. said:

 

I just can't quite understand how he got that far in the music industry with such mediocre tastes. Doesn't mention UYI best track (Coma, by far), thinks Chinese shouldn't have been released, and the funniest part: dares saying CD tracks are better live thanks to Slash!

 

Niven hates Coma. I remember a video interview a few years back where he said: 'Coma? It put me in one!' And found himself very funny. At that moment I decided I would never pay any attention anymore to Niven

[PatrickS77]

On 9/6/2022 at 12:44 AM, LunsJail said:

Even if they had been legally correct in using a re-creation of an artist’s work without compensating the artist, it would have cost way more than $75k in lawyer fees to prove that in the ensuing lawsuit.

And most likely they would have lost, seeing that they not only used the art, but also the name of that artwork. So that public domain use (of the original image) doesn't quite fly, when it's clearly based on someone elses art.

[Scream of the Butterfly]

If Kostabi was unwilling to sell at a reasonable price, they could have used a sufficiently different image. Kostabi's only contribution was the colour scheme. They could have used anything they wanted to from The School of Athens. Titles can't be copyrighted, so they could have even used the title Use Your Illusion without having to pay him. Any ensuing lawsuit, I imagine any judge would have thrown out of court.

[Billy Cundy]

22 hours ago, Nice Boy said:

Seems a bit of a douche move to suggest Slash can’t write songs, based on his solo stuff. Niven wouldn’t say that about Izzy, even though Izzy basically follows a format of creating lots of similar average sounding Dylan/Stones type songs as much as Slash follows a format of rewriting Aerosmith Rocks to infinity, if you want to look at it cynically.

I think he means songwriting in the traditional sense, y’know - Brill Building/Tin Pan Alley songwriting…. Music and lyrics. Slash isn’t that type of writer.. he writes riffs. Awesome, badass riffs nonetheless… but in their raw form, no, they are not songs. 
 

He’s not a chord progression + lyrics type of guy.. like Jackson Browne or Willie Nelson.. those are the guys who tend to get remembered as songwriters in the traditional sense. I know what Niven’s saying. 

but then his riffs have provided springboards for great songs… GNR were always at their best when they were collaborative entity. 

[D..]

On 9/7/2022 at 8:49 AM, Lio said:

Niven hates Coma. I remember a video interview a few years back where he said: 'Coma? It put me in one!' And found himself very funny. At that moment I decided I would never pay any attention anymore to Niven

Ahaha thanks for the info ; )

It's mindblowing the band had to cope with people like this. Parasites.

[Karice]

3 hours ago, D.. said:

Ahaha thanks for the info ; )

It's mindblowing the band had to cope with people like this. Parasites.

 

On 9/7/2022 at 2:49 AM, Lio said:

Niven hates Coma. I remember a video interview a few years back where he said: 'Coma? It put me in one!' And found himself very funny. At that moment I decided I would never pay any attention anymore to Niven

Coma is one of the best Guns N'Roses songs ever . 😀☺️ That bridge where Axl emotionally breaks down and screams emotionally at himself to snap out of his Coma and come back to the real world is especially breathtakingly emotional. 😳 In a good way. 😀☺️ Axl sounds like he is at his wits end in Coma and it really is a good, emotional song. I was stunned to learn that the bridge/Coma was actually dedicated to himself after he purposely overdosed in the real world and he ended up willing himself to come back to life as he realized he didn't want to die. I remember hearing that Slash was the one who had overdosed and Coma was dedicated to Slash and I thought,"Well, no wonder Axl sounds so emotional in Coma. Slash is/was one of his best Friends who could have died from an overdose." To learn that AXL is screaming emotionally at AXL made Coma that much better and more emotional.

[axlsalinger]

Mark Kostabi recently responded in the comment section of an article about the UYI painting (assuming it really was him). And what he says makes total sense - unlike Niven, who is entertaining but every time he talks makes Axl's decision look more like the right one. 

https://metalinjection.net/news/axl-rose-apparently-spent-a-lot-of-money-on-the-use-your-illusion-album-art-not-knowing-he-could-have-had-it-for-free

 

Mark Kostabi

1 day ago

Niven is absolutely wrong. My painting, called Use Your Illusion, was not in the public domain. That would be like saying many of Andy Warhol's most valuable paintings are in the public domain because Warhol quoted Da Vinci's Mosa Lisa or other old masters. Warhol transformed the subjects into his own style, cropped, changed colors, repeated in patterns, changed titles, etc. Niven's $75,000 price quote is wrong too and how could he know? It is contractually protected private knowledge and as Niven said, he did not negotiate the deal for Axl. If Axl had used the public domain original from the Renaissance it would have had muted colors, would not have had my signature black-and-white chiaroscuro and sfumato contrasting to the simplified bright serigraph colors in the background. He also could have not used my title: Use Your Illusion (which my brother Paul Kostabi actually provided.) And IMO it would not have sold as much because it would have looked old-fashioned. Axl now owns the copyright to my transformative version of the Raphael detail, so he can sue anyone who copies and sells the Use Your Illusion merchandise. It was a great deal for everyone involved!

[Chris 55]

On 9/13/2022 at 12:33 PM, axlsalinger said:

Mark Kostabi recently responded in the comment section of an article about the UYI painting (assuming it really was him). And what he says makes total sense - unlike Niven, who is entertaining but every time he talks makes Axl's decision look more like the right one. 

https://metalinjection.net/news/axl-rose-apparently-spent-a-lot-of-money-on-the-use-your-illusion-album-art-not-knowing-he-could-have-had-it-for-free

 

Mark Kostabi

1 day ago

Niven is absolutely wrong. My painting, called Use Your Illusion, was not in the public domain. That would be like saying many of Andy Warhol's most valuable paintings are in the public domain because Warhol quoted Da Vinci's Mosa Lisa or other old masters. Warhol transformed the subjects into his own style, cropped, changed colors, repeated in patterns, changed titles, etc. Niven's $75,000 price quote is wrong too and how could he know? It is contractually protected private knowledge and as Niven said, he did not negotiate the deal for Axl. If Axl had used the public domain original from the Renaissance it would have had muted colors, would not have had my signature black-and-white chiaroscuro and sfumato contrasting to the simplified bright serigraph colors in the background. He also could have not used my title: Use Your Illusion (which my brother Paul Kostabi actually provided.) And IMO it would not have sold as much because it would have looked old-fashioned. Axl now owns the copyright to my transformative version of the Raphael detail, so he can sue anyone who copies and sells the Use Your Illusion merchandise. It was a great deal for everyone involved!

Not to take away from this info, the replay to his comment was pretty out of left field funny

[Scream of the Butterfly]

On 9/13/2022 at 10:33 PM, axlsalinger said:

Mark Kostabi recently responded in the comment section of an article about the UYI painting (assuming it really was him). And what he says makes total sense - unlike Niven, who is entertaining but every time he talks makes Axl's decision look more like the right one. 

https://metalinjection.net/news/axl-rose-apparently-spent-a-lot-of-money-on-the-use-your-illusion-album-art-not-knowing-he-could-have-had-it-for-free

 

Mark Kostabi

1 day ago

Niven is absolutely wrong. My painting, called Use Your Illusion, was not in the public domain. That would be like saying many of Andy Warhol's most valuable paintings are in the public domain because Warhol quoted Da Vinci's Mosa Lisa or other old masters. Warhol transformed the subjects into his own style, cropped, changed colors, repeated in patterns, changed titles, etc. Niven's $75,000 price quote is wrong too and how could he know? It is contractually protected private knowledge and as Niven said, he did not negotiate the deal for Axl. If Axl had used the public domain original from the Renaissance it would have had muted colors, would not have had my signature black-and-white chiaroscuro and sfumato contrasting to the simplified bright serigraph colors in the background. He also could have not used my title: Use Your Illusion (which my brother Paul Kostabi actually provided.) And IMO it would not have sold as much because it would have looked old-fashioned. Axl now owns the copyright to my transformative version of the Raphael detail, so he can sue anyone who copies and sells the Use Your Illusion merchandise. It was a great deal for everyone involved!

Assumably Niven was referring to the original artwork by Raphael when he said the images were public domain, so he wasn't exactly wrong about anything (except maybe the price quote if you believe Kostabi that it wasn't $75,000). I suppose it would be up to the courts to decide whether Kostabi's painting was sufficiently different from the original to warrant for copyright protection on its own right, but that doesn't really relate to what Niven was saying.

As for the title Use Your Illusion, as I said before, titles can't be copyrighted:

https://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ33.pdf

Words and short phrases, such as names, titles, and slogans, are uncopyrightable because they contain
an insufficient amount of authorship. The Office will not register individual words or brief combina-
tions of words, even if the word or short phrase is novel, distinctive, or lends itself to a play on words.
Examples of names, titles, or short phrases that do not contain a sufficient amount of creativity
to support a claim in copyright include

• The name of an individual (including pseudonyms, pen names, or stage names)
• The title or subtitle of a work, such as a book, a song, or a pictorial, graphic, or sculptural work
• The name of a business or organization
• The name of a band or performing group
• The name of a product or service
• A domain name or URL
• The name of a character
• Catchwords or catchphrases
• Mottos, slogans, or other short expressions
Under certain circumstances, names, titles, or short phrases may be protectable under federal or
state trademark laws. For information about trademark laws, visit the U.S. Patent and Trademark
Office website or call 1-800-786-9199.