Why is GN'R less popular in North America compared to everywhere else?

[meadsoap]

Right now, we have a situation where GN'R is able to consistently fill up stadiums in every continent of the world except one. The arena shows in North America are doing fine, but the stadiums seem to be really very empty. This is a huge contrast from the leg of the tour they just got done with in Europe/Middle East, where they sold out or nearly sold out several stadium level shows despite touring there less than a year before (the show in the Netherlands being the only big exception there). It's also a huge contrast the South America and Asia last year, where they also made a killing.

What do you think the disconnect in NA is compared to the overseas market?

 

Edited July 29, 2023 by meadsoap

[SAU3R]

They played NA in 2016, 2017, 2019, 2021 and now 2023 without any significant promotion or marketing apart from 2016 . The market is oversaturated. The same will happen in Europe at some point. Some shows this year weren’t sold out and I guess the next EU tour has to be arenas or have lower ticket prices to be sold out.

Also everything is getting more and more expensive and as far as I know the ticket prices in the US are even more ridiculous than here in Europe. Most people who wanted to see reunited GNR had at least 1-2 chances now and probably think twice before paying a lot of money for a show they’ve already seen 

[Blackstar]

I think it's not a matter of level of popularity. It's just that the competition in the US is bigger (more concerts and bands touring at a given time, hence more options for concertgoers). Plus, ticket prices for GN'R shows in NA seem to be outrageously high compared to Europe.

[metalavenger99]

They’ve played the same show in NA too many times. 

They also played at the Miami pre SuperBowl thing in 2020.

 

 

 

[Stay.Of.Execution]

Do other artist have similar prices as guns? 375$ plus fees for the pit is just silly.

[Gordon Comstock]

I mentioned this in another thread, but basically they're charging more for a worse show. People are aware of how bad Axl sounds, the stage show is bare-minimum, and tickets are stupidly expensive. It's not complicated.

They haven't played Canada in 6 years and most of those shows are selling poorly. You'd think there would be at least some appetite for these shows, they certainly haven't over-saturated Canadian markets, but in reality the price of tickets is absolutely not reflective of the quality of the product. There's plenty of other bands I could see for a fraction of the price, or who give a way better value for high ticket prices.

[meadsoap]

1 hour ago, Gordon Comstock said:

I mentioned this in another thread, but basically they're charging more for a worse show. People are aware of how bad Axl sounds, the stage show is bare-minimum, and tickets are stupidly expensive. It's not complicated.

They haven't played Canada in 6 years and most of those shows are selling poorly. You'd think there would be at least some appetite for these shows, they certainly haven't over-saturated Canadian markets, but in reality the price of tickets is absolutely not reflective of the quality of the product. There's plenty of other bands I could see for a fraction of the price, or who give a way better value for high ticket prices.

I was wondering why Europe (and other continents) hasn't had the same problem. That's what I'm getting at. All those negatives you listed would be the same problems on every other continent, but it seems like NA (particularly Canada, as you said) is the only one majorly suffering for it. Everywhere else is still drawing huge crowds.

I guess the closest answer would be what someone else said about competition being steeper in NA, as well as ticket prices. That's makes the most sense to me.

Edited July 29, 2023 by meadsoap

[Rjuncajun]

Guns just isn't Hip Hop enough or Pop enough to garner the masses in America.   Plus,  to me there seems to be way more negativity in the States about so much,  even more than just this band.   IMO  our current societal attitude toward so much is just crappy and I wish we'd seriously lighten up and enjoy life.   We only get one of those. 

[Gordon Comstock]

7 minutes ago, meadsoap said:

I was wondering why Europe (and other continents) hasn't had the same problem. That's what I'm getting at. All those negatives you listed would be the same problems on every other continent, but it seems like NA (particularly Canada, as you said) is the only one majorly suffering for it. Everywhere else is still drawing huge crowds.

I guess the closest answer would be what someone else said about competition being steeper in NA, as well as ticket prices. That's makes the most sense to me.

 

Yes, I could either get a cheap ticket for GNR, or: a floor ticket for Maneskin, QOTSA, Arctic Monkeys, Rod Stewart/Cheap Trick, Iggy Pop/Suicidal Tendencies, Nas/Wu Tang, Sting, multiple tickets for The Struts... there's more competition, and a lot of bands that offer a better value for the cost of expensive tickets like Iron Maiden, Tool, RHCP, etc.

The show in Moncton isn't even in a big venue compared to the rest of the tour, but there's tickets available in every section a week before the show and pit tickets are $375. Montreal is $125 for GA, $300 for FOS, Pit tickets for Vancouver are $440, and that's not a VIP package, it's standard admission. Those prices are all before taxes and fees.

When the tickets for the 2017 shows went on sale, people could look up recent performances and see Axl killing it on WTTJ, OTGM, LALD, etc. Now if they look up recent performances of those songs and see even higher ticket prices, it shouldn't be surprising when they decide to spend their money elsewhere.

[MillionsOfSpiders]

Maybe they’re waiting to buy tickets much closer to the dates because they drop so much in price?

It’s started happening now in Europe too with ticketmaster having the premium prices based on demand but it’s been that way in the US for much longer and they probably know better than to pay full asking price for tickets way in advance. 

[meadsoap]

29 minutes ago, Gordon Comstock said:

 

Yes, I could either get a cheap ticket for GNR, or: a floor ticket for Maneskin, QOTSA, Arctic Monkeys, Rod Stewart/Cheap Trick, Iggy Pop/Suicidal Tendencies, Nas/Wu Tang, Sting, multiple tickets for The Struts... there's more competition, and a lot of bands that offer a better value for the cost of expensive tickets like Iron Maiden, Tool, RHCP, etc.

The show in Moncton isn't even in a big venue compared to the rest of the tour, but there's tickets available in every section a week before the show and pit tickets are $375. Montreal is $125 for GA, $300 for FOS, Pit tickets for Vancouver are $440, and that's not a VIP package, it's standard admission. Those prices are all before taxes and fees.

When the tickets for the 2017 shows went on sale, people could look up recent performances and see Axl killing it on WTTJ, OTGM, LALD, etc. Now if they look up recent performances of those songs and see even higher ticket prices, it shouldn't be surprising when they decide to spend their money elsewhere.

Yeah, I ultimately think they'll have to stop playing stadiums for awhile in NA or drop the ticket prices, and just play stadiums everywhere else. The arenas seem to be doing fine, and those are still big venues. There's no shame in playing them. In fact I think it's pretty impressive that they can still reliably draw 20k-30k loyal fans in every market, off the back of such old songs and show that hasn't changed much.

It's crazy that Live nation booked them for so many stadiums when last time they came to the US, they were already doing arenas. I really wonder why they decided to upsize.

Edited July 29, 2023 by meadsoap

[meadsoap]

3 minutes ago, MillionsOfSpiders said:

Maybe they’re waiting to buy tickets much closer to the dates because they drop so much in price?

It’s started happening now in Europe too with ticketmaster having the premium prices based on demand but it’s been that way in the US for much longer and they probably know better than to pay full asking price for tickets way in advance. 

Maybe this too. I know Hyde Park didn't completely sell out until just days before Guns were set to play there. There were a lot of last-minute tickets sold there, so I wonder if it will be the same for some of the stadiums in NA.

[MillionsOfSpiders]

10 minutes ago, meadsoap said:

Maybe this too. I know Hyde Park didn't completely sell out until just days before Guns were set to play there. There were a lot of last-minute tickets sold there, so I wonder if it will be the same for some of the stadiums in NA.

I just remember this being the case for the last NA stadium tour run, people were saying the stadiums would be half empty and I think some seats did get papered out but most of the shows were fine eventually attendance wise once the ticket prices started dropping. 

Hopefully they’ll sell more tickets soon. 

[Gordon Comstock]

They will heavily discount the tickets leading up to the shows, and give away tons of tickets. Worst case scenario they'll close off the upper sections in some venues.

I guess it all balances out if you gouge a few thousand people, then give away free or dirt-cheap tickets to another few thousand. But it's a shitty way to do things and bands like GNR are absolutely complicit with ticketbastards dynamic pricing.

It would be nice if they made some news by dropping a song before the tour starts, discounted tickets and did a social media blitz all at the same time.

[meadsoap]

15 minutes ago, MillionsOfSpiders said:

I just remember this being the case for the last NA stadium tour run, people were saying the stadiums would be half empty and I think some seats did get papered out but most of the shows were fine eventually attendance wise once the ticket prices started dropping. 

Hopefully they’ll sell more tickets soon. 

I'm not exactly worried for them even if they don't. As I said, arenas are huge venues that pay millions too. They can more than sustain themselves off that, so it's not like it's a choice between stadiums or going broke lol. 

Tbh, I think a full hiatus from touring would be good for them. They've toured so damn much in the past 7 years, and though they made a lot of money while doing it, they have to be tired by now. Compare Metallica to GN'R. Metallica is only doing like 42 shows stretched over 1 and a half years. GnR is doing nearly that amount (40 I think) in under 6 months. It's insane and must be a task considering all of them (besides Melissa) are around 60 years old by now.

Edited July 29, 2023 by meadsoap

[Karice]

Cake Cream tickets are only $25. 😏 Maybe Guns N'Roses should go the $25 a ticket route. 😏

[kiwiguns]

56 minutes ago, Gordon Comstock said:

They will heavily discount the tickets leading up to the shows, and give away tons of tickets. Worst case scenario they'll close off the upper sections in some venues.

I guess it all balances out if you gouge a few thousand people, then give away free or dirt-cheap tickets to another few thousand. But it's a shitty way to do things and bands like GNR are absolutely complicit with ticketbastards dynamic pricing.

It would be nice if they made some news by dropping a song before the tour starts, discounted tickets and did a social media blitz all at the same time.

You clearly don't understand how the live music industry operates. The band get paid regardless of how many tickets are sold or not sold. The promotor is the entity that takes the hit financially if less tickets are sold or makes a profit if more tickets are sold. The promotor is the one covering the cost of the show including paying the band up front. The band has the money in the bank before they step on the stage. That's why all artists are touring and playing live compared to relying on album sells. Its guaranteed revenue playing live as the artists aren't the ones taking the risk, unlike taking a percentage of your album selling that means nothing in today's music industry. 

Promotors are the new power brokers of the music industry as there is a demand by the artists to make money via playing live. Artists aren't making money via selling albums anymore. 

The record labels aren't controlling the music industry, Live Nation and the likes of Danny Wimmer are the ones who hold the power. 

In relation to the title thread. The band is more popular overseas because other countries and people don't get to see the band often and we don't take that for granted..We understand that the last time we saw the band live, might be the last time we ever get to do so. 

 

Edited July 29, 2023 by kiwiguns

[Gordon Comstock]

20 minutes ago, kiwiguns said:

You clearly don't understand how the live music industry operates. The band get paid regardless of how many tickets are sold or not sold. The promotor is the entity that takes the hit financially if less tickets are sold or makes a profit if more tickets are sold. The promotor is the one covering the cost of the show including paying the band up front. The band has the money in the bank before they step on the stage.

 

No shit the band gets paid regardless, which part of my post made it seem like I thought otherwise? The rest of your reply has nothing to do with my post and is common knowledge, but thanks for chiming in

[meadsoap]

34 minutes ago, kiwiguns said:

You clearly don't understand how the live music industry operates. The band get paid regardless of how many tickets are sold or not sold. The promotor is the entity that takes the hit financially if less tickets are sold or makes a profit if more tickets are sold. The promotor is the one covering the cost of the show including paying the band up front. The band has the money in the bank before they step on the stage. That's why all artists are touring and playing live compared to relying on album sells. Its guaranteed revenue playing live as the artists aren't the ones taking the risk, unlike taking a percentage of your album selling that means nothing in today's music industry. 

Promotors are the new power brokers of the music industry as there is a demand by the artists to make money via playing live. Artists aren't making money via selling albums anymore. 

The record labels aren't controlling the music industry, Live Nation and the likes of Danny Wimmer are the ones who hold the power. 

In relation to the title thread. The band is more popular overseas because other countries and people don't get to see the band often and we don't take that for granted..We understand that the last time we saw the band live, might be the last time we ever get to do so. 

 

I was considering this too, and I'm glad someone brought it up. This is the part of the reason I think the band themselves pushed to a do a bunch of stadiums this time around, even if they knew it wouldn't be full. They still get paid more for stadiums than they do arena shows, and if the show doesn't do well then it's not their problem at this point. However, there has to be a reason Livenation agreed to this arrangement. They wouldn't put so pay GnR so much money without being sure they'll make a profit too. And unlike with the concert in the Netherlands, none of the US shows have downsized due to lack of ticket sales, so they must be pretty confident.

Maybe the breakeven point for these shows is much lower than we're thinking. Once you combine merch sales with the inflated ticket prices when they initially go on sale (not to mention how low budget GnR's stage show is overall, with the lack of pyro and set pieces), the stadiums might not need that many tickets sold to make a profit for livenation in the end.

 

[PatrickS77]

6 minutes ago, meadsoap said:

I was considering this too, and I'm glad someone brought it up. This is the part of the reason I think the band themselves pushed to a do a bunch of stadiums this time around, even if they knew it wouldn't be full. They still get paid more for stadiums than they do arena shows, and if the show doesn't do well then it's not their problem at this point. However, there has to be a reason Livenation agreed to this arrangement. They wouldn't put so pay GnR so much money without being sure they'll make a profit too. And unlike with the concert in the Netherlands, none of the US shows have downsized due to lack of ticket sales, so they must be pretty confident.

Maybe the breakeven point for these shows is much lower than we're thinking. Once you combine merch sales with the inflated ticket prices when they initially go on sale (not to mention how low budget GnR's stage show is overall, with the lack of pyro and set pieces), the stadiums might not need that many tickets sold to make a profit for livenation in the end.

 

A band doesn't get to push anything. They get booked to do a show. And no promoter is going to book them into an stadium, when there is a huge financial risk for them or they are not confident it's gonna work out. And I doubt that they get paid more for a stadium performance than an arena performance. They might take an additional cut from tickets sales, but the performance rate should be the same. But yeah, obviously a sold out stadium is not needed for it to be a financial success. If they sell 20,000 I guess they are good too. 

[Karice]

59 minutes ago, kiwiguns said:

You clearly don't understand how the live music industry operates. The band get paid regardless of how many tickets are sold or not sold. The promotor is the entity that takes the hit financially if less tickets are sold or makes a profit if more tickets are sold. The promotor is the one covering the cost of the show including paying the band up front. The band has the money in the bank before they step on the stage. That's why all artists are touring and playing live compared to relying on album sells. Its guaranteed revenue playing live as the artists aren't the ones taking the risk, unlike taking a percentage of your album selling that means nothing in today's music industry. 

Promotors are the new power brokers of the music industry as there is a demand by the artists to make money via playing live. Artists aren't making money via selling albums anymore. 

The record labels aren't controlling the music industry, Live Nation and the likes of Danny Wimmer are the ones who hold the power. 

In relation to the title thread. The band is more popular overseas because other countries and people don't get to see the band often and we don't take that for granted..We understand that the last time we saw the band live, might be the last time we ever get to do so. 

 

Yep, good point about Albums not being much of a money making thing anymore. Especially nowadays that you can just use two phones and record entire songs off of YouTube and get entire albums for free. It's no longer say 1983 where you had to PAY for the Albums or record them from your Top 40 Radio Station using cassettes in order to have them. 

[Appetitefordiscussion]

I saw a video of a SA show and everyone was jumping and screaming the words. I’d buy pit if they were like that in the U.S. 

[Tom2112]

4 hours ago, PatrickS77 said:

A band doesn't get to push anything. They get booked to do a show. And no promoter is going to book them into an stadium, when there is a huge financial risk for them or they are not confident it's gonna work out. And I doubt that they get paid more for a stadium performance than an arena performance. They might take an additional cut from tickets sales, but the performance rate should be the same. But yeah, obviously a sold out stadium is not needed for it to be a financial success. If they sell 20,000 I guess they are good too. 

If the the venue is 40/50000, then the break even is probably around 20k tickets sold (who knows?). 

20k for a 80k stadium would not pay the band and the promoter. Obviously the band is paid regardless, but the promoter is not booking a show that they aren't confident they can get their investment back a few times over.

He's sales in the NA market are poor from over touring and not really giving a bells and whistles show. In Europe the fans are a little bit more about the performance, in America the show (pyro, lights, stage design) as well as crowd Interaction are more important...and gnr have scaled back so much on all of this. 

I almost guarantee that gnr with some kind of gimmick stage similar to the U2 claw, would sell out all across NA. A bare bones tour will sell hit and miss, and that's alright, you cannot expect to sell out every year you come through. They need some kind of marketing buffer to move tickets. New album press or a big interview with 60minutes or something would all move things a little (not the difference of selling out), but a week, they've nothing planned. 

[Draguns]

The prices for GNR tickets here in the United States are on average. It's not bad at all. Taylor Swift, Beyonce, and Brice Springsteen tickets were about $1,000-$2,000 at MetLife Stadium.  I think there are two issues as to why GNR has not sold out MetLife Stadium. First is the fact that it's on a Tuesday night in August. People are either working or on vacation.  I don't get why they scheduled a concert in the second biggest market on a Tuesday night. It should have been scheduled on August 11. They scheduled Hershey Park on August 11. The dates should have been switched. I have a feeling, though, it has to do with the supply chain logistics of Metallica having 2 shows next weekend at MetLife Stadium. 

This brings up my second point. Taylor Swift, Beyonce, Metallica, and Bruce Springsteen have not played at MetLife Stadium in years.  I think with people unsure of where the economy was going earlier this year, they chose bands and music artists who haven't appeared in a long time. I think it just got too crowded for GNR due to the economy and  having a concert here  2 years ago. I think a fall tour would have been better at either a stadium or arena.  There's not as much going on concert wise in the fall.  

[Karice]

8 minutes ago, Draguns said:

The prices for GNR tickets here in the United States are on average. It's not bad at all. Taylor Swift, Beyonce, and Brice Springsteen tickets were about $1,000-$2,000 at MetLife Stadium.  I think there are two issues as to why GNR has not sold out MetLife Stadium. First is the fact that it's on a Tuesday night in August. People are either working or on vacation.  I don't get why they scheduled a concert in the second biggest market on a Tuesday night. It should have been scheduled on August 11. They scheduled Hershey Park on August 11. The dates should have been switched. I have a feeling, though, it has to do with the supply chain logistics of Metallica having 2 shows next weekend at MetLife Stadium. 

This brings up my second point. Taylor Swift, Beyonce, Metallica, and Bruce Springsteen have not played at MetLife Stadium in years.  I think with people unsure of where the economy was going earlier this year, they chose bands and music artists who haven't appeared in a long time. I think it just got too crowded for GNR due to the economy and  having a concert here  2 years ago. I think a fall tour would have been better at either a stadium or arena.  There's not as much going on concert wise in the fall.  

My God, $1,000-2,000 for Beyonce, Bruce, and Taylor? 🧐😵‍💫 What in the actual fuck? 😵‍💫 🧐And people are complaining about paying $375 to see Guns N'Roses? 😵‍💫🧐