Why is GN'R less popular in North America compared to everywhere else?

[Powderfinger]

7 hours ago, kiwiguns said:

You clearly don't understand how the live music industry operates.

You clearly didn’t read his post. 

[B5Redeye]

38 minutes ago, Karice said:

My God, $1,000-2,000 for Beyonce, Bruce, and Taylor? 🧐😵‍💫 What in the actual fuck? 😵‍💫 🧐And people are complaining about paying $375 to see Guns N'Roses? 😵‍💫🧐

Yes the people complaining about ticket prices don’t go to any semi-big, or big named concerts or they would know GNR ticket prices are on par.

[Powderfinger]

11 hours ago, meadsoap said:

Right now, we have a situation where GN'R is able to consistently fill up stadiums in every continent of the world except one. The arena shows in North America are doing fine, but the stadiums seem to be really very empty. This is a huge contrast from the leg of the tour they just got done with in Europe/Middle East, where they sold out or nearly sold out several stadium level shows despite touring there less than a year before (the show in the Netherlands being the only big exception there). It's also a huge contrast the South America and Asia last year, where they also made a killing.

What do you think the disconnect in NA is compared to the overseas market?

 

Over saturation and over familiarity? 

They’ve toured pretty consistently in NA over the last 20 years or so and  
since 1991 at least a third of the current set has been played every night. It’s been 30 years of mostly the same old songs with not much new material released.
 

There’s too many options for concerts this summer than to (over) spend on one GnR ticket. If it’s an option between a show you’ve seen maybe 4 times in the last 7 years that’s mostly the same again why would you buy that ticket over 2-3 tickets for bands you haven’t seen for the same money.

NA is really only two countries at the end of the day. Both huge countries, but I think GnR have oversaturated both at this point.

[axlreed44]

The funny thing is as each NA comes it’s likely they sellout each venue. Even if tickets are slashed a bit. They still draw. 

[AxlRoseCDII]

The concept of this run of shows is nonsensical if you really sit down and think about it. 2016 and 2017 were the reunion. 2021 was that they were back after covid (“WE’RE FN BACK” as the tour name). So what’s the 2023 go around for? You’re back again-again with maybe a handful of setlist changes but it’s overall the same show?

This tour by all metrics deserves to sell badly.

[SoulMonster]

1 hour ago, AxlRoseCDII said:

The concept of this run of shows is nonsensical if you really sit down and think about it. 2016 and 2017 were the reunion. 2021 was that they were back after covid (“WE’RE FN BACK” as the tour name). So what’s the 2023 go around for? You’re back again-again with maybe a handful of setlist changes but it’s overall the same show?

Legacy bands don't need to promote anything to tour or come up with a "reason" to tour. People buying tickets is enough reason.. People flock to legacy bands because they are legacy bands, to hear certain familiar hits, to get social capital, to have something to talk about at work next Monday.  

We'll see how sustainable GN'R touring is, it might be running out of steam in NA but not everywhere else. I think Axl's voice might be running out before the global audiences do. 

[Draguns]

 

7 hours ago, Karice said:

My God, $1,000-2,000 for Beyonce, Bruce, and Taylor? 🧐😵‍💫 What in the actual fuck? 😵‍💫 🧐And people are complaining about paying $375 to see Guns N'Roses? 😵‍💫🧐

I'm going to see Metallica next weekend and GNR on August 15. For both artists, I paid $180.  For the GNR show, I could have gotten tickets for $130, but my friend wanted a lower section. The people who are complaining are the ones that are picking  the most expensive seats at any concert, which is floor, and want them for cheap. That's not how the market for concerts work nowadays.  I also don't think people do their research and see how much some artists charge along with their performance  time.  GNR plays for 3+ hours. That's a lot. It's not like the RHCP who play for 90 minutes and charge $300 for upper level seats.  In the most expensive market in the United States (NJ/NYC metro area), both Metallica and GNR were priced on the average of what concert tickets are nowadays.  

Edited July 30, 2023 by Draguns

[Draguns]

6 hours ago, Powderfinger said:

Over saturation and over familiarity? 

They’ve toured pretty consistently in NA over the last 20 years or so and  
since 1991 at least a third of the current set has been played every night. It’s been 30 years of mostly the same old songs with not much new material released.
 

There’s too many options for concerts this summer than to (over) spend on one GnR ticket. If it’s an option between a show you’ve seen maybe 4 times in the last 7 years that’s mostly the same again why would you buy that ticket over 2-3 tickets for bands you haven’t seen for the same money.

NA is really only two countries at the end of the day. Both huge countries, but I think GnR have oversaturated both at this point.

If you think that a person overspends on GNR, try looking at tickets for Taylor Swift or Bruce. Even Beyonce charged tickets that were over a grand this past weekend. I do agree with you on your other point that there are too many options this year.

[allwaystired]

10 hours ago, Karice said:

My God, $1,000-2,000 for Beyonce, Bruce, and Taylor? 🧐😵‍💫 What in the actual fuck? 😵‍💫 🧐And people are complaining about paying $375 to see Guns N'Roses? 😵‍💫🧐

Yeah but that's secondary market prices. 

As a comparison, here in the UK.....

The top price ticket for the Taylor Swift tour (not counting VIP bundles, which didn't actually get you better seats anyway) was £187. 

The top price GC price for GNR in Glasgow was £175- £200. Standing tickets outside of this were £90. In London the prices for GNR were considerably higher, with GC around the £250 mark. 

Taylor Swift actively chose not to get involved in the shameless 'variable pricing' Ticketmaster nonsense that Springsteen greedily decided he wanted to so his prices went bonkers. Of note though is that Springsteen tickets were available for peanuts later on as many of his fans didn't play ball and voted with their feet. 

That GNR tickets are more expensive than Taylor Swift ones in the UK is absolutely bonkers, considering the show she is touring. 

But as as to the posters original point- perhaps music in America isn't so utterly consumed with nostalgia as it is in Europe? 

It did surprise me greatly that the GNR tour sold as well as it did this time....but even more surprising to me was that no-one knew the music, something that was reported here from gigs in many different countries. That's possibly the weirdest bit, seeing how high the prices are. 

It's difficult to see how people won't be panicking behind the scenes with this American shows though. The band get paid regardless, but someone, somewhere has to be losing money based on some of the sales people have been posting. 

I see it as a positive though. It means something has to change, one way or another. 

[Draguns]

1 hour ago, allwaystired said:

Yeah but that's secondary market prices. 

As a comparison, here in the UK.....

The top price ticket for the Taylor Swift tour (not counting VIP bundles, which didn't actually get you better seats anyway) was £187. 

The top price GC price for GNR in Glasgow was £175- £200. Standing tickets outside of this were £90. In London the prices for GNR were considerably higher, with GC around the £250 mark. 

Taylor Swift actively chose not to get involved in the shameless 'variable pricing' Ticketmaster nonsense that Springsteen greedily decided he wanted to so his prices went bonkers. Of note though is that Springsteen tickets were available for peanuts later on as many of his fans didn't play ball and voted with their feet. 

That GNR tickets are more expensive than Taylor Swift ones in the UK is absolutely bonkers, considering the show she is touring. 

But as as to the posters original point- perhaps music in America isn't so utterly consumed with nostalgia as it is in Europe? 

It did surprise me greatly that the GNR tour sold as well as it did this time....but even more surprising to me was that no-one knew the music, something that was reported here from gigs in many different countries. That's possibly the weirdest bit, seeing how high the prices are. 

It's difficult to see how people won't be panicking behind the scenes with this American shows though. The band get paid regardless, but someone, somewhere has to be losing money based on some of the sales people have been posting. 

I see it as a positive though. It means something has to change, one way or another. 

Good luck trying to pay face value for Taylor Swift tickets here in the States. That's just not happening and not realistic. Additionally, Springsteen tickets did not go down when he played MSG, UBS Arena (in Brooklyn) and the Prudential Center. 
 

[MYWIFEMYLIFE]

old colonies are getting worse day by day in every way. 

[DoMw94]

18 hours ago, Karice said:

Cake Cream tickets are only $25. 😏 Maybe Guns N'Roses should go the $25 a ticket route. 😏

Please give it a rest 🤦‍♂️

 

Anyway, on the original topic...

I don't think it's necessarily a Guns thing. You'll see a lot of rock acts do bigger shows in Europe, South America, and Japan compared to the US, even if they're from there

[allwaystired]

1 hour ago, Draguns said:

Good luck trying to pay face value for Taylor Swift tickets here in the States. That's just not happening and not realistic. Additionally, Springsteen tickets did not go down when he played MSG, UBS Arena (in Brooklyn) and the Prudential Center. 
 

Really? I got some on behalf of someone else and it was so well organised. You had to register beforehand, then they selected a certain number of people who could access the sale. No re-sale, no Inflated prices. The ones I got were £57, and to be honest, are pretty decent seats given the price. Perhaps lessons were learned from America and she didn't want to repeat it all for her Europe tour. "Realistic" or not, it's sad to see fans gouged on prices. 

Demand was huge obviously, but if you got selected for the sale, it was great. Seemed a fair way to sell tickets.  

No idea on those particular Springsteen shows, but for many of them you could get in for about $5. Serves the greedy bastard right for going back on everything he said in the past really about tickets and fans. He's lost so much respect, which is sad in some ways but kind of reassuring in others. 

Back to the GNR thing though, it can probably be summed up pretty simply: 

Too much touring in the US + too many casuals who have ticked the GNR box + too expensive tickets + no forward motion of the band = poor ticket sales. When you think about it, it's more surprising that the ticket sales wouldn't be poor than they would, given how long this tour has been going on now. 

Edited July 30, 2023 by allwaystired

[trev]

Media

[RONIN]

GnR is a band that is not relevant to anyone under 45 in North America. I even wonder sometimes how relevant they are to the GenX crowd (their bread and butter base). The 40+ crowd are busy and picky about what they devote their limited time to. GnR is offering nothing new - these tours are the very definition of a cynical cash grab. There is nothing new to hook someone as a repeat customer. It also needs to be said that GnR literally fell off the map here since '94 and missed their last chance to be relevant (circa 2006). So you have a decade too late reunion, a largely irrelevant brand, a divisive singer with rapidly diminishing vocal power, and a band that is only 3/5 reunited. Everything post-2017 is going to be a case of been there done that. The short catalogue and lack of new material doesn't help either.  I'm amazed they're still able to fill arenas currently in NA. Testament to what they built from 87-94.

In the larger scheme of things (imho), Axl self-destructing during the crucial period of the mid-90's allowed Metallica and Nirvana to rewrite the era's narrative and supplant GnR's place as the preeminent rock/metal band of that era. Rose being an extremely divisive figure cemented all of that as a de facto thing. That means less PR fluff pieces on Vh1, less inclusions in 90's spotify playlists, less chances to be featured in hit movies, etc. Less relevance in pop culture for the past 20+ yrs. The culture and people moved on from GnR. All of that is reflected in the ticket sales. Metallica and Nirvana are peers from their era who are relevant in a way that GnR will never be I think. GnR's "reunion" has rejuvenated the brand in a major way, and they're giving it their all on tour which helps but the incompetent management, greed, and refusal to release either old or new material is really hurting the momentum and legacy I think.

Edited July 31, 2023 by RONIN

[Draguns]

19 hours ago, RONIN said:

GnR is a band that is not relevant to anyone under 45 in North America. I even wonder sometimes how relevant they are to the GenX crowd (their bread and butter base). The 40+ crowd are busy and picky about what they devote their limited time to. GnR is offering nothing new - these tours are the very definition of a cynical cash grab. There is nothing new to hook someone as a repeat customer. It also needs to be said that GnR literally fell off the map here since '94 and missed their last chance to be relevant (circa 2006). So you have a decade too late reunion, a largely irrelevant brand, a divisive singer with rapidly diminishing vocal power, and a band that is only 3/5 reunited. Everything post-2017 is going to be a case of been there done that. The short catalogue and lack of new material doesn't help either.  I'm amazed they're still able to fill arenas currently in NA. Testament to what they built from 87-94.

In the larger scheme of things (imho), Axl self-destructing during the crucial period of the mid-90's allowed Metallica and Nirvana to rewrite the era's narrative and supplant GnR's place as the preeminent rock/metal band of that era. Rose being an extremely divisive figure cemented all of that as a de facto thing. That means less PR fluff pieces on Vh1, less inclusions in 90's spotify playlists, less chances to be featured in hit movies, etc. Less relevance in pop culture for the past 20+ yrs. The culture and people moved on from GnR. All of that is reflected in the ticket sales. Metallica and Nirvana are peers from their era who are relevant in a way that GnR will never be I think. GnR's "reunion" has rejuvenated the brand in a major way, and they're giving it their all on tour which helps but the incompetent management, greed, and refusal to release either old or new material is really hurting the momentum and legacy I think.

I have to challenge this thinking here.  GNR's music was heavily featured in the last Thor movie. GNR's songs have been in other movies shows and video games. Captain Marvel dressed as Axl when she was younger.  I think this is a bit too much BS to say that Nirvana and Metallica are more relevant than GNR.  Additionally,  VH1 did a GNR special when the old band didn't even exist. Lastly, I see GNR in plenty of playlists on Spotify. No offense but I find your post to be a bunch of BS. 

[Karice]

Ronin, IIRC, Nirvana was only relevant for like two years, and then quickly fell off the map. Kurt Cobain's suicide was a big factor in that IMHO. Guns N'Roses has had staying power for 35/36 years.  

[Stay.Of.Execution]

1 minute ago, Karice said:

Ronin, IIRC, Nirvana was only relevant for like two years, and then quickly fell off the map. Kurt Cobain's suicide was a big factor in that IMHO. Guns N'Roses has had staying power for 35/36 years.  

That statement couldn't be any less true.

[JimiRose]

On 7/29/2023 at 9:00 PM, meadsoap said:

Yeah, I ultimately think they'll have to stop playing stadiums for awhile in NA or drop the ticket prices, and just play stadiums everywhere else. The arenas seem to be doing fine, and those are still big venues. There's no shame in playing them. In fact I think it's pretty impressive that they can still reliably draw 20k-30k loyal fans in every market, off the back of such old songs and show that hasn't changed much.

It's crazy that Live nation booked them for so many stadiums when last time they came to the US, they were already doing arenas. I really wonder why they decided to upsize.

There is a simple solution for them. Release a new album, promote the hell out of it, adverts, online marketing, interbiews, TV appearances. And bring back all the pyro to the shows and they will be back in peoples mind. Look how massive Barbie and oppenheimer are right now in cinema. If GnR had put singles in each of those they'd be front page news everywhere. Instead they are just doing nothing, and this is the end result. They have preyed on peoples FOMO since the pandemic and now it's starting to wain.

On 7/30/2023 at 6:15 AM, AxlRoseCDII said:

The concept of this run of shows is nonsensical if you really sit down and think about it. 2016 and 2017 were the reunion. 2021 was that they were back after covid (“WE’RE FN BACK” as the tour name). So what’s the 2023 go around for? You’re back again-again with maybe a handful of setlist changes but it’s overall the same show?

This tour by all metrics deserves to sell badly.

The same show, but worse! No pyro and weaker vocals! I would say the band energy was waaay higher though in 2023 than it was in 21 and 22. But that doesnt make up for no new music and losing all the pyro. GnR are the only band ive seen that dont end stadium shows or festivals with fireworks. 

[EvanG]

23 minutes ago, Karice said:

Ronin, IIRC, Nirvana was only relevant for like two years, and then quickly fell off the map. Kurt Cobain's suicide was a big factor in that IMHO. Guns N'Roses has had staying power for 35/36 years.  

After Kurt's death Nirvana became even more popular. That's what happens to most artists when they die young. Tupac, Biggie, Jim Morrison, Hendrix, Joplin, you can't say that they became irrelevant or weren't popular anymore after their death, quite the opposite.

[DoMw94]

On 7/29/2023 at 9:00 PM, meadsoap said:

It's crazy that Live nation booked them for so many stadiums when last time they came to the US, they were already doing arenas. I really wonder why they decided to upsize.

Stadiums seem to be a popular thing at the moment for bands that typically don't warrant it. I'm not for a second suggesting GN'R don't warrant stadiums, but so many acts are playing them these days, I wonder if they're more cost effective even if they aren't full. I mean, I saw The Who play a stadium a couple of weeks ago. The show only had 8,000 in attendance, less than the capacity of both local arenas. Surely arena shows would make more sense there? I dunno, just a thought

[DoMw94]

44 minutes ago, JimiRose said:

GnR are the only band ive seen that dont end stadium shows or festivals with fireworks. 

Foo Fighters, The Rolling Stones, Def Leppard, Motley Crue, The Who, all bands I've seen in a stadium setting recently without pyro 🤷‍♂️

Even Kiss – albeit not in stadiums – have cut back on pyro on this most recent tour leg

[JimiRose]

13 hours ago, DoMw94 said:

Foo Fighters, The Rolling Stones, Def Leppard, Motley Crue, The Who, all bands I've seen in a stadium setting recently without pyro 🤷‍♂️

Even Kiss – albeit not in stadiums – have cut back on pyro on this most recent tour leg

Kiss had plenty, they got rid of the mid show stuff, but the first 3 songs and last 3 songs where still big, with lazer show during the middle. Motley have pyro. Stones i don't remember ever having it. Foos usually do so that might be a good comparison. Who ive never seen so can't comment. The point i since 2001 GnR have had it until covid. I know people like to say 'its all about the music' but if that were the case, you can listen to the CD. If im playing top dollar, I want a show. especially as I had it before. Amd even more especially in a stadium where from most of the venue you can barely see the band. 

Edited August 1, 2023 by JimiRose

[BillConnor_1982]

People want to see Taylor Swift so they spend the money. No one wants to see Guns N’ Roses so they don’t spend the money. There’s no mystery here. GnR is not a stadium act anymore especially at these prices. The ride is over. 

[allwaystired]

1 minute ago, BillConnor_1982 said:

People want to see Taylor Swift so they spend the money. No one wants to see Guns N’ Roses so they don’t spend the money. There’s no mystery here. GnR is not a stadium act anymore especially at these prices. The ride is over. 

That sums it up really doesn't it? 

Nothing further needed.