Why is GN'R less popular in North America compared to everywhere else?

[allwaystired]

2 hours ago, PatrickS77 said:

And yet they did stadiums again in North America. So it was financially viable or they would stop doing that. And I recall back in '21 some of these charts looked bad too.

 

Well, if they go to a rock concert and cry about lack of pyro, they must have. I say, if it's not proper, impressive pyro, it's not worth the effort, as it doesn't really enhance anything.

Looking at that Pittsburgh thing I have no idea how it's financially viable....but as you say, it looked bad last time (perhaps not quite as bad as this) and they chose to do stadiums again, so presumably money is indeed being made. 

Wealth and profit generation for hideous entities like Ticketmaster/Live Nation is something I can't bring myself to give a fuck about, but I feel a bit sorry for people who bought tickets, only to see them being virtually given away at a later date though. 

[Rovim]

2 hours ago, PatrickS77 said:

LOL could say the same about you. But unlike you, I don't need to go back and forth ad nauseam. Don't have the time for that.

on the contrary my friend, I find that often disagreement leads to more interesting discussing. It's not a big deal, but I've noticed that you're kinda become rigid when someone disagrees with you and there's no need for that imho. I enjoy discussing Gn'R with you, but it becomes impossible sometimes to have a constructive doscussion if you can't see that not everyone shares your prefernces.

I choose to spend a lot of time in forums cause most people irl find this shit and other shit much too boring to discuss. Don't think there's anything wrong with that.

[JimiRose]

2 hours ago, Blackstar said:

For me rock concerts shouldn't be held in stadiums in the first place. The essence of rock music changed when that started happening in the '70s.

I personally have never really enjoyed a concert in a stadium, pyro or not.

I agree with this. I think if you want the big band experience with 100k people and outdoors, then festivals are the way to go. Of all the hundreds of gigs ive been to, i wouldnt rate a single stadium gig anywhere near the top half of that list. Stones, chillis, foos, GnR etc were all much better in arenas - for the fans, for the sound, for the view, everything. 

 

2 hours ago, PatrickS77 said:

Oh, I think a sold out stadium is a beautiful thing. Turning around and seeing a stadium full of people, is an amazing thing. That said, I never would want to be one of those people seen, when people in the front turn around. Glad though that there are people happy to be in the back or we would have a problem.

A beautiful thing for the band no doubt! Not as much the concert goer. Unless you're on MDMA in which case stadium is better. More people to chat shit to

[Rovim]

2 hours ago, Blackstar said:

Yet GN'R didn't have pyro in the 80s.

Gn'R didn't need pyro in the 80's. Gn'R was the pyro.

[PatrickS77]

33 minutes ago, Rovim said:

on the contrary my friend, I find that often disagreement leads to more interesting discussing. It's not a big deal, but I've noticed that you're kinda become rigid when someone disagrees with you and there's no need for that imho. I enjoy discussing Gn'R with you, but it becomes impossible sometimes to have a constructive doscussion if you can't see that not everyone shares your prefernces.

I choose to spend a lot of time in forums cause most people irl find this shit and other shit much too boring to discuss. Don't think there's anything wrong with that.

Newsflash: I find it boring too. Especially if it's shit that has been discussed already over and over. And there comes a point where it is not needed to discuss it further. I stated my bit, you stated yours, move on. No need to go over and over it again.

26 minutes ago, JimiRose said:

A beautiful thing for the band no doubt! Not as much the concert goer. Unless you're on MDMA in which case stadium is better. More people to chat shit to

For me too, when I turn around. I enjoy it.

[BillConnor_1982]

3 hours ago, PatrickS77 said:

As long as (enough) money is to be made and they are continuesly booked into stadiums, they are a stadium act. If promoters loose money, booking them there and they stop booking them there, then they are no stadium act (in North America) anymore. Though they still are in the rest of the world. So maybe that says more about americans than about them.

Yeah, maybe it says Americans are smarter than the rest of the world because they were the first to recognize the great rock n roll swindle that GnR has become

[Blackstar]

3 hours ago, PatrickS77 said:

Oh, I think a sold out stadium is a beautiful thing. Turning around and seeing a stadium full of people, is an amazing thing. That said, I never would want to be one of those people seen, when people in the front turn around. Glad though that there are people happy to be in the back or we would have a problem.

Yeah, I'd put it this way: a show in half empty stadium (especially with a few people in the front and a few in the back) is even lamer than a show in a full stadium.

[PatrickS77]

11 minutes ago, BillConnor_1982 said:

Yeah, maybe it says Americans are smarter than the rest of the world because they were the first to recognize the great rock n roll swindle that GnR has become

They go in droves to see Taylor Swift. Maybe you wanna rethink that.

[Stay.Of.Execution]

25 minutes ago, BillConnor_1982 said:

Yeah, maybe it says Americans are smarter than the rest of the world

lol

[Underhardy]

I’d say there’s also a hefty culture barrier once GNR hits over seas. Things that we on this forum make fun of, team Brazil, Axls voice/appearance, Dizzy Fortus Frank being yes-men, 1 album in 29 years. Folks in Brazil, Japan, seem to not care about those things… “Thank you Beta by take care.. Ashba better than the old one..”

Edited August 2, 2023 by Underhardy

[Blackstar]

19 minutes ago, Underhardy said:

I’d say there’s also a hefty culture barrier once GNR hits over seas. Things that we on this forum make fun of, team Brazil, Axls voice/appearance, Dizzy Fortus Frank being yes-men, 1 album in 29 years. Folks in Brazil, Japan, seem to not care about those things… “Thank you Beta by take care.. Ashba better than the old one..”

Talk about generalizations and stereotypes. Sure, there seems to be more GN'R "worship" historically there compared to other places for various reasons, and TB may have more fans in their country of origin (it's self-evident why) than in other countries, but there are quite a few members from Brazil (and other countries in South America) on this forum and they're not like that. I have also seen many comments in these countries' media about the band's performances, Axl's voice and appearance that were even "meaner" than the ones on this forum.

 

[mikeman5150]

11 hours ago, PatrickS77 said:

No. It does not. It absolutely does not. Unless it's a show that lives from Pyro like Rammstein.

That’s certainly an opinion, definitely not a fact! 

[Powderfinger]

10 hours ago, Blackstar said:

For me rock concerts shouldn't be held in stadiums in the first place. The essence of rock music changed when that started happening in the '70s.

I personally have never really enjoyed a concert in a stadium, pyro or not.

Id agree with you 100% stadiums were designed for sports not for music, rarely does a band sound good in a stadium. When Rock music moved to stadiums it became “a show” and not a musical experience anymore. Stadium shows are events rather than gigs.
 

I would really love to see GnR do a “Stones/Licks” type tour. The Stones on that tour pulled into a city and did a Club, Arena & Stadium gig in most cities. I’d love to see GnR play a few clubs and get back to the roots of their music, rather than the “show” they’re forced into playing in stadiums. When you have the tunes GnR have, you don’t really need a show. The songs are strong enough on their own. 

[Seb91]

Posting from the UK but I think the issue is that there's no real hook to entice people to go, it's very much more of the same in terms of the core show. People won't see the same show forever and I think that's especially true nowadays that the price of tickets has got so crazy. I mean, shows in the US also seem to be a lot more expensive than here in the UK so I'm guessing that may be one reason they tend to do better in Europe. Pricing is key I think - there's a fair amount of competition from similar priced artists who all have a hook, be that a new show, a new record, a reunited lineup etc. People will probably understandably pick them over going to see someone they've seen before who's doing the same show. I don't really feel there's any real 'buzz' around GN'R anymore. Here in the UK, Glastonbury created a fair amount (and what got me back into following the band after a fair few years away after the NuGuns split). They need to do something to drum up interest to differentiate new shows from what's come before.

They could probably keep selling out arenas without an issue on the back of the name alone but I think it's a bit optimistic to keep selling out stadiums when the novelty of the reunion's starting to wear off and there's nothing different or new on the horizon. Plus, they're competing with other high profile artists.  Taking a lengthy break could also be an option - the Stones used to do that and every new Stones tour seemed like an event - however that was generally also accompanied by new music, even if it was just a few tracks on a compilation. 

I'm also with people on the stadium thing - not a massive fan of stadium shows on the whole and it really has to be something special to get me to go (Axl/DC was the last stadium show I went to). Roger Waters' Wall show at Wembley was phenomenal though, I felt that he really filled the space as it were. 

Edited August 2, 2023 by BassistSeb

[Draguns]

12 hours ago, felixGNR said:

but that's a fact.

 

they went from playing Metlife stadium (2016 2 shows over 100k tickets sold)

 

to play the same venue to 37k ( 2021 1 show)

 

Swift just played 3 sold out shows ( could have played 10 shows if she wants it.)

 

 

 

now the Metlife show would hit 30k if lucky. ( tons of give away i guess) 

You are wrong. It was 40,000+ fans https://www.app.com/story/entertainment/music/2021/08/06/guns-n-roses-metlife-stadium-east-rutherford-biz-markie-setlist/5505026001/


Additionally, you intentionally left out that we were still in lockdown at the time and that Governor Murphy made an announcement in late May that venues would start to reopen in NJ. Furthermore,  the GNR  concert was the first concert at MetLife since the pandemic started.  People were still apprehensive in going out. Considering that this was the first show since the pandemic began, the numbers were pretty solid.

Lastly, you brought up Taylor Swift. Of course the demand for her was going to skyrocket since the last time she  played at MetLife Stadium was 5 years ago. Her genre is pop, which  seems to be more popular. You can't compare GNR to Swift as a result if these facts.   

[felixGNR]

46 minutes ago, Draguns said:

You are wrong. It was 40,000+ fans https://www.app.com/story/entertainment/music/2021/08/06/guns-n-roses-metlife-stadium-east-rutherford-biz-markie-setlist/5505026001/


Additionally, you intentionally left out that we were still in lockdown at the time and that Governor Murphy made an announcement in late May that venues would start to reopen in NJ. Furthermore,  the GNR  concert was the first concert at MetLife since the pandemic started.  People were still apprehensive in going out. Considering that this was the first show since the pandemic began, the numbers were pretty solid.

Lastly, you brought up Taylor Swift. Of course the demand for her was going to skyrocket since the last time she  played at MetLife Stadium was 5 years ago. Her genre is pop, which  seems to be more popular. You can't compare GNR to Swift as a result if these facts.   

who are you gonna believe?  Pollstar or some random  news website, actually the actual number was 35k.

their failure selling tickets  nothing to do with covid  imo ( by February 2020 the summer 2020 tour was on sale for 3 months)

Metlife sold like 25% by then.

I'm comparing stadium acts. the 2021 show was also 5 years since the last time GNR  played Metlife.

Bruce Springsteen  is also playing 3 dates.

Metallica is playing 2  dates.

Beyonce played 2 dates.

Ed Sheeran played 2 dates

a korean band/ latin singer are playing 2 dates each.

 

GNR is not an Stadium act at least on the USA.

Edited August 2, 2023 by felixGNR

[BillConnor_1982]

3 hours ago, Powderfinger said:

Id agree with you 100% stadiums were designed for sports not for music, rarely does a band sound good in a stadium. When Rock music moved to stadiums it became “a show” and not a musical experience anymore. Stadium shows are events rather than gigs.
 

I would really love to see GnR do a “Stones/Licks” type tour. The Stones on that tour pulled into a city and did a Club, Arena & Stadium gig in most cities. I’d love to see GnR play a few clubs and get back to the roots of their music, rather than the “show” they’re forced into playing in stadiums. When you have the tunes GnR have, you don’t really need a show. The songs are strong enough on their own. 

The difference is, the Stones have decades of music to play from and often switch up setlists if it’s a club show etc.  GnR has Appetite and 3 other records 

[Gordon Comstock]

15 hours ago, PatrickS77 said:

You don't really want to compare proper fireworks to the measly pyro done at GNR shows?? Again, GNR are not Rammstein. Pyro used the way GNR used it, was always forgettable and unimpressive, unless you were a child.

 

GNR ended Paradise City with proper fireworks (plus normal stage pyro) on the 2016 tour. The intro to CD in 2010 where the pyro wrapped around the stage was pretty cool, as were the sparks in November Rain. It isn't really necessary, but you can't see why it would add to a stadium or arena show for a lot of the crowd? If they're just gonna keep touring the same couple dozen songs, they could at least at some 'flash' to the show if they expect to fill stadiums.

[Powderfinger]

2 hours ago, BillConnor_1982 said:

The difference is, the Stones have decades of music to play from and often switch up setlists if it’s a club show etc.  GnR has Appetite and 3 other records 

GnR absolutely have the material to pull off a Licks type tour. Do they PLAY the material they have, not so much. GnR have the material to pull of an Acoustic club gig, A Theatre gig with an orchestra and A Stadium gig as a rock band. They have material of that scope. 

[RONIN]

On 7/31/2023 at 3:30 PM, Draguns said:

I have to challenge this thinking here.  GNR's music was heavily featured in the last Thor movie. GNR's songs have been in other movies shows and video games. Captain Marvel dressed as Axl when she was younger.  I think this is a bit too much BS to say that Nirvana and Metallica are more relevant than GNR.  Additionally,  VH1 did a GNR special when the old band didn't even exist. Lastly, I see GNR in plenty of playlists on Spotify. No offense but I find your post to be a bunch of BS. 

That's why I said "imho", just my humble opinion. I was also referring mostly to the breakup years which has diminished GnR's impact in America. GnR's pop culture exposure from 1996-2016 is minimal compared to Metallica and Nirvana. I don't think that's a controversial statement. Axl himself did not want to promote the old band's legacy during those years. Metallica and Dave Grohl were everywhere during those years unlike Axl. Again, I don't think I'm being controversial by saying that GnR was considered a joke in America before Slash came back. If you don't believe me, here's a clip of Corey Taylor talking about going to a nu guns show and the crowd jeering as soon as he mentions GnR. People respected the old band but most downplayed their legacy here....because nu guns had tainted the whole thing. It's only after the reunion that the narrative started to slowly change. Helped in no small part by far better press coverage than the wilderness years. Thor and Jumanji came out after the reunion. We're talking about the post-breakup years - 20 solid years where Axl and Slash were not on speaking terms and suing each other over various things.

Slash (a.k.a. Saul Hudson), McKagan and Rose again have their names on a legal document, only this time their union is adversarial: the two members of Velvet Revolver are suing Axl for at least $1 million, according to "Celebrity Justice."

In the suit, Rose is accused of rejecting requests to use old Guns N' Roses songs in major motion pictures even though he lacks controlling interest in the material. Slash and McKagan added that they weren't consulted when their ex-bandmate nixed lucrative offers from the makers of "We Were Soldiers," "Death to Smoochy," "Old School" and "Just Married."

The suit also claims Rose killed negotiations with the producers of "Black Hawk Down," who wanted to use "Welcome to the Jungle" in their movie. He allegedly had wanted to re-record the track with the new members of GN'R he had hired so Slash and McKagan wouldn't receive any licensing payment.

https://www.mtv.com/news/nqetns/axl-rose-sued-by-ex-guns-n-roses-bandmates

Quote

"Isn't it funny how history has almost erased Guns N' Roses..."

 

 

[Draguns]

17 hours ago, felixGNR said:

who are you gonna believe?  Pollstar or some random  news website, actually the actual number was 35k.

their failure selling tickets  nothing to do with covid  imo ( by February 2020 the summer 2020 tour was on sale for 3 months)

Metlife sold like 25% by then.

I'm comparing stadium acts. the 2021 show was also 5 years since the last time GNR  played Metlife.

Bruce Springsteen  is also playing 3 dates.

Metallica is playing 2  dates.

Beyonce played 2 dates.

Ed Sheeran played 2 dates

a korean band/ latin singer are playing 2 dates each.

 

GNR is not an Stadium act at least on the USA.

Can you please post the stats from Pollstar? I cannot access the data from there since you need a subscription. Additionally, the link I posted was from Asbury Press, which is a NJ paper. NJ.com also stated 40,000+ As someone who works for a financial news and and information company, it has been my experience that most numbers are accurate from articles. Additionally, there can be a discrepancy between what Polar has and other data providers depending on methodology. 

Again, you are naming bands or music artists that haven't played in years in the area. GNR last played in the area in 2017 prior to the 2021 concert. They had shows at MSG and Prudential Center. 

Lastly, you easily disregard Covid for 2021. I went to Giant games that year. It wasn't full capacity even for Giants games. There were empty seats. People were still scared about COVID.  

[Draguns]

7 hours ago, RONIN said:

That's why I said "imho", just my humble opinion. I was also referring mostly to the breakup years which has diminished GnR's impact in America. GnR's pop culture exposure from 1996-2016 is minimal compared to Metallica and Nirvana. I don't think that's a controversial statement. Axl himself did not want to promote the old band's legacy during those years. Metallica and Dave Grohl were everywhere during those years unlike Axl. Again, I don't think I'm being controversial by saying that GnR was considered a joke in America before Slash came back. If you don't believe me, here's a clip of Corey Taylor talking about going to a nu guns show and the crowd jeering as soon as he mentions GnR. People respected the old band but most downplayed their legacy here....because nu guns had tainted the whole thing. It's only after the reunion that the narrative started to slowly change. Helped in no small part by far better press coverage than the wilderness years. Thor and Jumanji came out after the reunion. We're talking about the post-breakup years - 20 solid years where Axl and Slash were not on speaking terms and suing each other over various things.

Slash (a.k.a. Saul Hudson), McKagan and Rose again have their names on a legal document, only this time their union is adversarial: the two members of Velvet Revolver are suing Axl for at least $1 million, according to "Celebrity Justice."

In the suit, Rose is accused of rejecting requests to use old Guns N' Roses songs in major motion pictures even though he lacks controlling interest in the material. Slash and McKagan added that they weren't consulted when their ex-bandmate nixed lucrative offers from the makers of "We Were Soldiers," "Death to Smoochy," "Old School" and "Just Married."

The suit also claims Rose killed negotiations with the producers of "Black Hawk Down," who wanted to use "Welcome to the Jungle" in their movie. He allegedly had wanted to re-record the track with the new members of GN'R he had hired so Slash and McKagan wouldn't receive any licensing payment.

https://www.mtv.com/news/nqetns/axl-rose-sued-by-ex-guns-n-roses-bandmates

 

 

Nice to see you moving the goal post. You didn't even brought up the years. Nirvana wasn't relevant by the late 2000s. It was more the Foo fighters. Metallica had St. Anger and was still feeling the fallout from Napster. Plethora of people didn't like Metallica as a result at that time period.  People were still intrigued by GNR  in the 2000s.  I don't agree that Buckethead should have been in GNR, but he did piqued a lot of people's interest. Additionally, CD had leaked and was played a lot on Myspace. They had been somewhat relevant.  Furthermore VR had help keep the GNR name in modern day culture at that time. 

You can't be moving goal posts  and bring up 

[RONIN]

1 hour ago, Draguns said:

Nice to see you moving the goal post. You didn't even brought up the years. Nirvana wasn't relevant by the late 2000s. It was more the Foo fighters. Metallica had St. Anger and was still feeling the fallout from Napster. Plethora of people didn't like Metallica as a result at that time period.  People were still intrigued by GNR  in the 2000s.  I don't agree that Buckethead should have been in GNR, but he did piqued a lot of people's interest. Additionally, CD had leaked and was played a lot on Myspace. They had been somewhat relevant.  Furthermore VR had help keep the GNR name in modern day culture at that time. 

You can't be moving goal posts  and bring up 

I haven’t moved goalposts- you haven’t bothered to read either of my posts properly. Once again, GnR is not as relevant as Metallica and Nirvana in America. GnR was largely irrelevant until the reunion. All of this is reflected in the ticket sales. These are not controversial statements. 

[felixGNR]

2 hours ago, Draguns said:

Can you please post the stats from Pollstar? I cannot access the data from there since you need a subscription. Additionally, the link I posted was from Asbury Press, which is a NJ paper. NJ.com also stated 40,000+ As someone who works for a financial news and and information company, it has been my experience that most numbers are accurate from articles. Additionally, there can be a discrepancy between what Polar has and other data providers depending on methodology. 

Again, you are naming bands or music artists that haven't played in years in the area. GNR last played in the area in 2017 prior to the 2021 concert. They had shows at MSG and Prudential Center. 

Lastly, you easily disregard Covid for 2021. I went to Giant games that year. It wasn't full capacity even for Giants games. There were empty seats. People were still scared about COVID.  

[Nintari]

This is very general, but basically, in US culture, what is old is bad, and what is new is good. Guns was "old" as soon as the Seattle scene hit, and that was all the way back in 1992, so imagine what the average teen or youth here thinks of them now. Practically fossilized.