"The General" is officially delayed... but "The General" AND "Monsters" is (unofficially) out of the bag

[History2010]

26 minutes ago, BreakDown2014 said:

Does anyone else still thinks The General might be a (maybe heavily) reworked version of "Strate of Grace"? I do.

It's possible but the timeline is extremely tight. We know The General was started from a sample by Brain. Brain joined GN'R in March 2000. State of Grace is dated March 27th, 2000 making it extremely likely that State of Grace pre-dates Brain joining GN'R and is therefore not The General. Based on all the dates on the CDs, it appears that Brain didn't really start working in the studio until Fall 2000.

Edited August 19, 2023 by History2010

[rumandraisin]

9 hours ago, SoulMonster said:

Appetite for Discussion (a-4-d.com) is your friend: https://www.a-4-d.com/t7987-the-general 

Actually, I might miss some quotes since this is only updated per October 2017.

Fernando's comment is quite cool. I like the description of it being a monster. 

As shitty as the cell phone clip is you can clearly hear it's an epic. 

[UYI4]

How do we really know the cell phone clip was called the general?  Was that insider information?  Could be monstrosity too.  Never know

[Live Like a Suicide]

11 minutes ago, UYI4 said:

How do we really know the cell phone clip was called the general?  Was that insider information?  Could be monstrosity too.  Never know

Because if you listen closely, you can hear the orchestral arrangement for The General in the breakdown.

[pbj_jam]

please just please don't dumb it down for release..

[Lies They Tell]

17 hours ago, Millions said:

Does anyone know what style of song this is supposed to be? A ballad? An up-tempo rocker?

I'm assuming that if there's  orchestra backing, its not going to be one of the heavier GNR songs.

It's not going to be a ballad and it's not going to be a fast paced rocker either. From what I've heard it seems to be a a dark but epic song. Sebastian Bach described it like this:  "it's by far the heaviest metal tune I think Ι've ever heard Axl do, this slow, grinding riff with these high, piercing vocals, screaming vocals. " Imagine a slow and dark orchestra in the background of those riffs and high screaming vocals and that's pretty much The General. It sounds like something that we haven't really heard from GNR before which is very exciting.

[SoulMonster]

21 minutes ago, Lies They Tell said:

It's not going to be a ballad and it's not going to be a fast paced rocker either. From what I've heard it seems to be a a dark but epic song. Sebastian Bach described it like this:  "it's by far the heaviest metal tune I think Ι've ever heard Axl do, this slow, grinding riff with these high, piercing vocals, screaming vocals. " Imagine a slow and dark orchestra in the background of those riffs and high screaming vocals and that's pretty much The General. It sounds like something that we haven't really heard from GNR before which is very exciting.

It sounds like State Of Grace with orchestra. I have a hunch Bach mixed the titles up. I hope we get State of Grace at some point.

Edited August 19, 2023 by SoulMonster

[DarkLotus1111]

From what we've heard in the cellphone clip leak, it reminded me of the band Paradise Lost during the Host era (gloomy, electronic, epic sounding). It sounded pretty cool, also it sounded like there was a small choir in the mix. Unless that was Axl singing that. 

I can definitely imagine a music video at some abandoned church, fits the haunting sound from that leak. 

Edited August 19, 2023 by DarkLotus1111

[Lies They Tell]

31 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

It sounds like State Of Grace with orchestra. I have a hunch Bach mixed the titles up. I hope we get State of Grace at some point.

Yeah State of Grace is the closest thing to what The General sounds like based on the cellphone leak. Also the ending of November Rain has that mean but epic sound to it. But other than that GNR hasn't really made dark and epic songs before.

I'm curious, why you think Bach would have mixed up The General and State of Grace? Are you thinking that he mixed them up only because he didn't mention the orchestra when he described The General? Personally I'm pretty sure that he knew what song he was talking about because the cellphone clip of The General sounds very much like what Bach described.

Of course the description fits State of Grace as well. The theory that State of Grace would have become The General isn't completely far fetched. Those songs are kinda similar, but on the other hand nothing about the cellphone clip of The General sound exactly like State of Grace, so they're more likely different songs.

Still, The General does sound like the song that Bach described and it is considered a "big gun", so it's pretty likely in my opinion that The General is the song that Bach was excited about.

[SoulMonster]

3 minutes ago, Lies They Tell said:

I'm curious, why you think Bach would have mixed up The General and State of Grace?

It's just a theory and I don't think I am fully committed to it

But Bach's description sounds like State Of Grace. More so than the audio clip from the party, or at least, that's how I understand it from those who have better hearing than me, but you're saying it does fit with the sound clip so then I guess I have no case anymore. Scrap that theory! 

As for whether those two are the same song, no, that doesn't make much sense for reasons explained elsewhere including the weirdness of Axl renaming the song The General when the song's lyrics have nothing to do with any general and when the prior name, State Of Grace, fit the lyrics perfectly and was the lyrical focal point of the song.

[Lies They Tell]

9 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

More so than the audio clip from the party, or at least, that's how I understand it from those who have better hearing than me, but you're saying it does fit with the sound clip so then I guess I have no case anymore. Scrap that theory! 

Yeah the cellphone clip is pretty rough because of all the noise. I didn't originally hear much of the song when I listened to it, but with better speakers the song became much clearer.

13 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

As for whether those two are the same song, no, that doesn't make much sense for reasons explained elsewhere including the weirdness of Axl renaming the song The General when the song's lyrics have nothing to do with any general and when the prior name, State Of Grace, fit the lyrics perfectly and was the lyrical focal point of the song.

Sometimes songs become very different when they evolve. For example Michael Jackson's demo called Al Capone became Smooth Criminal later. Those are almost completely different songs, but the other is still based on the other. So in theory it is possible that even State of Grace could have evolved into an entirely different song. Still, like I said, it is more likely that they are different songs. It's pretty difficult to imagine that the song would have changed so much since State of Grace is a pretty good song the way it is.

[Free Bird]

28 minutes ago, Lies They Tell said:

Yeah State of Grace is the closest thing to what The General sounds like based on the cellphone leak. Also the ending of November Rain has that mean but epic sound to it. But other than that GNR hasn't really made dark and epic songs before.

I'm curious, why you think Bach would have mixed up The General and State of Grace? Are you thinking that he mixed them up only because he didn't mention the orchestra when he described The General? Personally I'm pretty sure that he knew what song he was talking about because the cellphone clip of The General sounds very much like what Bach described.

Of course the description fits State of Grace as well. The theory that State of Grace would have become The General isn't completely far fetched. Those songs are kinda similar, but on the other hand nothing about the cellphone clip of The General sound exactly like State of Grace, so they're more likely different songs.

Still, The General does sound like the song that Bach described and it is considered a "big gun", so it's pretty likely in my opinion that The General is the song that Bach was excited about.

The Garden comes to mind when it cones to dark epic songs

[vloors]

16 hours ago, GNR4Ever2024 said:

What if The General is just a 40 second clip of Axl saying

"You fuckers thought you were getting the general lmao"

As long as its not Mickey voice falsetto im happy

[Lies They Tell]

5 minutes ago, Free Bird said:

The Garden comes to mind when it cones to dark epic songs

I thought about that too. I also thought about Oh My God. But I guess it depends on how you define "epic". Neither The Garden or Oh My God are epic enough in my opinion. I wouldn't call them epic songs, even if they lean a bit into that direction.

Edited August 19, 2023 by Lies They Tell

[Rovim]

3 minutes ago, Free Bird said:

The Garden comes to mind when it cones to dark epic songs

first one that came to my mind was Coma

[SoulMonster]

8 minutes ago, Lies They Tell said:

Yeah the cellphone clip is pretty rough because of all the noise. I didn't originally hear much of the song when I listened to it, but with better speakers the song became much clearer.

Sometimes songs become very different when they evolve. For example Michael Jackson's demo called Al Capone became Smooth Criminal later. Those are almost completely different songs, but the other is still based on the other. So in theory it is possible that even State of Grace could have evolved into an entirely different song. Still, like I said, it is more likely that they are different songs. It's pretty difficult to imagine that the song would have changed so much since State of Grace is a pretty good song the way it is.

Yeah, and also the lyrics were finished and had nothing to do with a general. Besides, Brain is said to have written The General, and he came in too late to have written State of Grace as it is on the Village leaks. It simply doesn't seem to be enough time there for Brain to have joined the band, helped make a song to completion which was called State of Grace based off on the completed lyrics, despite it originally being called The General because Brain and Bucket allegedly came up with it while eating General Tsao's chicken, or something, and then now for bizzare reasons it has evolved so much that State of Grace is no longer the best title, but back to The General, presumably with entirely new vocals. No, it doesn't make sense.

[JimiRose]

4 hours ago, GNFNRUK said:

A user on Reddit claims to have heard from an “insider” that The General and State of Grace are the same song… Make of that what you will…

Absolutely nothing #FakeNews

 

3 hours ago, BreakDown2014 said:

Does anyone else still thinks The General might be a (maybe heavily) reworked version of "Strate of Grace"? I do.

No. If by heavily reworked you mean a completely different song in a different key with different parts and lyrics, then yes. 

[Lies They Tell]

14 minutes ago, Rovim said:

first one that came to my mind was Coma

True! Coma didn't even cross my mind for some reason, even though it's one of my favorite songs. That one is dark and epic for sure.

Well, The General is still something new and interesting since it's the first epic and dark GNR song with orchestration. 

[K00b4]

now that perhaps was played I can't wait for them to soundcheck even a little bit of General so the people here go fuckin euphoric lol

[rumandraisin]

7 minutes ago, JimiRose said:

Absolutely nothing #FakeNews

 

No. If by heavily reworked you mean a completely different song in a different key with different parts and lyrics, then yes. 

This!

[ChristmasFnatic]

They should release it as another single instead of a B-side. But that would probably mean another 2 years or so.

[Carlson-online]

3 minutes ago, ChristmasFnatic said:

They should release it as another single instead of a B-side. But that would probably mean another 2 years or so.

They will. It's just they are releasing both on a vinyl together, as vinyl is 2 sided. Hence the G side and the R side ( same happened with the UYI albums..... )

[Lies They Tell]

15 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

Yeah, and also the lyrics were finished and had nothing to do with a general. Besides, Brain is said to have written The General, and he came in too late to have written State of Grace as it is on the Village leaks. It simply doesn't seem to be enough time there for Brain to have joined the band, helped make a song to completion which was called State of Grace based off on the completed lyrics, despite it originally being called The General because Brain and Bucket allegedly came up with it while eating General Tsao's chicken, or something, and then now for bizzare reasons it has evolved so much that State of Grace is no longer the best title, but back to The General, presumably with entirely new vocals. No, it doesn't make sense.

Yeah, I don't want to defend the position that State of Grace became The General too much, because it's not actually something that I believe in. 😅  I'm just saying that there are clear similarities between these songs. Mainly the slow and dark vibes with screaming vocals. So I can understand why some speculate that SOG could have become The General. It's possible (but not likely) that Brain and Bucket wrote The General and then Axl liked the song so much that he scrapped SOG completely and decided to use some bits and ideas from SOG in The General instead. Kinda like he used some parts of Eye On You on Hard Skool instead. It's possible but not likely. Still it's fun to speculate.

[jekylhyde]

33 minutes ago, Carlson-online said:

They will. It's just they are releasing both on a vinyl together, as vinyl is 2 sided. Hence the G side and the R side ( same happened with the UYI albums..... )

Yeah. The General will probably be marketed as a new single like Perhaps. It's probably a "B-side" on the vinyl just because Perhaps came out first.

[Bansidhe]

35 minutes ago, ChristmasFnatic said:

They should release it as another single instead of a B-side. But that would probably mean another 2 years or so.

As much as the song is anticipated amongst hardcore GN'R marks, it doesn't seem that The General will be the type of song that will get a load of radio play. Given the alleged subject matter and it being a bit less *accessible musically to the average listener, it'll most likely be one of those tunes that proper fans will love (maybe a bit like Coma) but you'd hardly ever hear it played on radio.

 

 

 

_{* I appreciate that we've only heard some parts and not in great quality but it was enough to give the impression that it's not one of their more poppy offerings}