THE GENERAL - MONSTERS - Official Discussion Thread. NO LINKS OR ASKING FOR LINKS

[felixGNR]

2 minutes ago, jacdaniel said:

Has  it become cool for CD fans to dismiss AFD and the original band as some cliche cock rock band? 

So much nonsense comments 

this guys think  a niche guitar player (Buckethead)  and  someone good but not great (robin fink)  have they stayed /released music would take GNR to a different level /bury the old band.

nothing farther from the truth.

[Lethalis]

Slash belongs to GNR. These new tracks prove it once again. His guitar work on Monsters is great.

I don't even care how it sounded before.

 

[©GnrPersia]

13 minutes ago, WhazUp said:

Oh yeah Slash should have been more faithful to the era and add fretless elephant noises nobody cares about to the middle section lol

Although I disagree, but it was funny as hell 🤣

12 minutes ago, felixGNR said:

this guys think  a niche guitar player (Buckethead)  and  someone good but not great (robin fink)  have they stayed /released music would take GNR to a different level /bury the old band.

nothing farther from the truth.

Also a good one lol

(But yeah I strongly believe in that)

Enjoy the CD tracks folks.

Hmm... Btw when do we hear something written by Slash for GNR this time round? 

Edited October 29, 2023 by ©GnrPersia

[ll_tj1]

I can end my pursuit. Finally, we got The General. 

[THELINESMAN]

Any evidence on who leaked this? What’s the first recorded upload? They sound like unfinished demos to me.

[username]

I'm still pleasently surprised at how the guitar work doesn't feel like it's pasted on top of the thing feeling disjointed, but rather feels like an integral part of the whole thing. I still wonder if that's because we've never heard a proper demo that I'm used to, or that it's actually done better. Definitely liking these tracks. They seem like they're growers too (that's what she said). I can also totally see how these are b-sides. Normally they'd be album tracks. But they're definitely not singles. In a good way. This is really cool stuff! 

It raises a ton of questions though. 

- From when are these versions?

- Are they the same as the upcomming (lol) vinyl? 

- If Axl was sitting on this, what else is out there? We'd never even heard of Monster, even if we can link it to some titles. 

- Are these meant to be separate tracks? Or it it more like The General Part 1 & 2? 

- How on earth would 9 minutes fit on a 7" single? 

- Who leaked this? Why? And how did they get it? Is it an early delivery? 

 

Really glad to have these, they sound great, but it also deepens the mystery and frustration about what's else might be out there. 

Also LOL @ GnR that these leaked. Incompetent fuckups. 

 

[evilfacelessturtle]

On 10/28/2023 at 3:04 AM, Amir said:

I was thinking about this last night. At first I thought Slash was making the song sound too happy (I feel that way with the official release of Perhaps versus the darker demo), but now I feel it’s the child/main character growing up and overcoming his demons, sort of triumphing in the end? Which makes me think it’s the final part of the trilogy.

Maybe Me & My Elvis is the first part, and there’s a version with vocals out there?

I think this is a bit of reverse justification. Why does it happen in Shackler? Because the mass shooter suddenly becomes happy during the pre-chorus?

And Slash didn't write the chord progressions, supposedly Brain wrote the song, so he made it go into a major key for the chorus.

1 hour ago, Voodoochild said:

Not sure why people say it's overproduced. Those songs don't have layers and layers like CD songs, its much simpler. 

What I find amusing is that people honestly think Slash can't play this stuff. Wonder if they payed any attention to Paradise City's outro solo. That shit is crazy and it's very hard (and tiring) to play.

Axl used distortion in Estranged too, the part "I don't know how you're supposed to find me lately..". 

Honestly, I wouldn't be against Axl using a more light distortion like on Estranged for all his vocals if he can't pull off a rasp anymore. It really would have helped those mickey vocals on The General ("My only regret...").

[agustingloger]

4 hours ago, Crazyman said:

Genius move to play a song about child abuse in front of a bunch of people and assume they'd be totally into it.

Chess, not checkers folks!

The first time You Hear a song what makes You like it is the music not the lyrics. None of My musicians Friends liked it. They hate Axl's vocals effects. They did like monsters tough. And Perhaps/Hardskool. Absurd don't

[Free Bird]

41 minutes ago, kitstuai said:

Slash wasn't in the band in early 2000's and this recording is clearly not from 2016 or after

The recording new. The songwriting isn't. 

[Amir]

3 minutes ago, evilfacelessturtle said:

I think this is a bit of reverse justification. Why does it happen in Shackler? Because the mass shooter suddenly becomes happy during the pre-chorus?

In Shackler it sounds like two characters: low demonic voice being the shooter, and the “I don’t believe in the reason” being Axl.

[evilfacelessturtle]

3 minutes ago, Amir said:

In Shackler it sounds like two characters: low demonic voice being the shooter, and the “I don’t believe in the reason” being Axl.

I was referring to the pre-chorus, that double-time, happy-go-lucky "Don't ever try to tell me..." part. It's so out of place in the song, it ruins the whole thing for me.

[DSTK]

2 hours ago, Miden34 said:

Hackney diamonds is a GREAT record and Angry isnt the best song on the album. Depending on you is. 

Agreed , it's their best in my lifetime...take note other bands & the heartbeat that's Charlie is only on two tracks 

6 cracking tracks, few album fillers but overall its good 👍  

[JimiRose]

5 hours ago, Miden34 said:

monsters is is part 1 general is part 2. we have been listening tot eh songs backwards

if general is played right at the end of monsters when its fading out it fits perfect. 

 

the there is no monsters  and mgeneral. "The General" is one song. a copyright message to Skylar proved that monsters is general. 

nah, it's the general then monsters. Hence the song is called 'The General and Monsters' the monsters has an obvious song outro, the General sort of ends and hangs on a note and slides into monsters. You're probably not listening to a good version. But it's def not monsters first. 

[alfa75]

46 minutes ago, WhazUp said:

From my perspective, the lead section in the middle of Monsters was pretty much the only clearly discernable thing in the cell phone recording and I vastly perfer Slash's additions to it on this new version

Slash gave it this bluesy take that blends the old with the new and gives it more of the "GNR feel" but also gave that section a cool repeated motif with the string bending starting note that kicks off each phrase

I love Buckethead and Fink's work don't get me wrong, but when I hear that middle section in particular to me it is one of the most "Illusions era" guitar moments since the 90s in GNR-land IMO and it just feels like Dorothy and Toto finally landed back home where they should be

Absolutely spot on.

[oneway23]

Leaving aside any perceived commercial aspirations, ultimately, ALL of these hybrid new/old/Nu Guns songs thus far are merely a time-capsule of an era, an alternate branch reality of shoulda, coulda, woulda.  They're cool curios, tracks with some killer pieces, some nice bits n' bobs, some good playing & vocals, but, that's...pretty much it.

 

I don't know...As a fan since the beginning, I can't help but feel a little deflated.  These tunes are a huge victory for the die-hards, for these forums, for the nights spent on here, following tours/setlists/etc., but, all the same...this is it.  Two decades of speculation, magazine interviews, parsing quotes down to the atom, endless winding debates, and...these are the songs.

 

Don't get me wrong, taken as a whole, there's some really beautiful stuff born from this era.... TWAT, Better, Blues, Catcher, Maddy, Monster, Atlas, Prostitute, a few others...some really gorgeous, mind-bending, heart-wrenching stuff.  I mean, sure.....nothing was likely ever going to live up to the impossible bar of idealized imagination, but, all the same, I'm still left feeling, I don't know...a bit sad, maybe?

 

All the amazing band members through the years, their talents, their personalities, the boundless possibilities, and, barring the chance of a further few numbers (or not?), we're pretty much close to closing the book on not just the Chinese era, but, potentially, the recording career of GN'R, and it all feels a bit strange.

I'm really sorry if I'm bumming people out, but, it just feels odd to me right now.  They may collect these songs into an album configuration in the future, they may not, who knows?  We may even get a clearing of the vaults when something happens to Axl down the line, but, I'm not too confident that they will ever record fresh material, either.   For this to be it, regardless of what re-jiggered songs we have yet to still get, is just a bit of a shock.

 

Thanks for reading.  Rant over

Edited October 29, 2023 by oneway23

[colonizedmind]

6 hours ago, BreakDown2014 said:

A little summary I made of what we expected vs what we got:

- The orchestral intro: It seems like the orchestral intro is a blend from Beltrami's work on both songs, since they share a similar motif. Most of it is from The General, though. It also isn't an intro like some people expected, but an orchestral arrangement that can be heard throughout the song.

- The cellphone clip: unfortunately I only have on my computer a brief extract of the cellphone recording, but it's 100% Monsters. Would be cool to know if both songs were played back to back on the  Viena party.

- Instrumental: The General isn't an instrumental track like some speculated.

- They're both reworked songs with Slash and Duff: Both songs definitely have Slash and Duff all over it it. Maybe we will never know if there's any guitar work from Robin, Paul or Bucket left on the final versions (like Robin's famous bend on Perhaps).

- Evader's version: IMO he was damn close on the screaming Axl vocals part. The rest of his version suffered from the confusion of thinking the cellphone clip was The General instead of Monsters but was a very cool guess. One of my first reactions after hearing both songs was "Evader got pretty damn close".

- ¿Is it an "epic" like we expected from Slash's comments?: This is obviously very subjective but if you take both songs as a whole it definitely fits my definition of "epic".

- Child abuse lyrics on The General: Yes.

- Bach's comments on The General:  The chorus has the slow grinding riff with high piercing vocals but it's impossible to understand how this could be a sequel to Estranged.

- Soul Monster's bridge: The vocals definitely fit the description Axl gave on the 2008 chats.

- ¿A reworked State of Grace?: IMO Monsters and State of Grace share a similar vibe but are definitely not the same song. This means State of Grace could still be released someday and make a great trilogy along with The General and Monsters (eventhough it will probably never get an official release).

- Mysterious soundcheck: the BPM from Frank's beat don's seem to match Monster nor The General my conclusion is that they were definitely not playing any of these 2 songs.

Yes...it can and was a head scratcher BUT it's probably because the first thing that puts us off that suggestion is the music bed. They couldn't be further apart, right? So immediately we go to - HUH? 

However if you take the music to one side and read the lyrics to both, you can start to see some possible crossover....Axl was talking to himself in "Estranged" and coming into the world alone, very introspective....and he's talking about formative difficult times in The General....so parts themes wise, it''s the lyrical content we should consider for more than the musical....just a thought.

[JimiRose]

4 hours ago, Blackstar said:

The "You stole my soul with the devil's romancing" line in Monsters 

 

People keep saying this is about a woman, but im certain it's about child rape or sexual abuse. I dont think 30 year old Axl lost his soul because a partner was a bit kinky in bed or sexually adventurous. The devils romancing is something evil and frowned upon, like child rape. Lots of victims talk about losing their identity and soul forever once it has happened. 

 

4 hours ago, GnR Chris said:

We should stop thinking in terms of “this one isn’t hit” or “this one is radio friendly.” It’s largely pointless. For me it just comes down to, do you like the song or not.
 

New Guns music doesn’t really get played on the radio regardless. If they wrote “Sweet Child O’ Mine” today, the radio would play it a couple times then go back to the classics. 

Agreed. GnR could write stairway to heaven or hey jude and the vast majority of people would never hear it nor give a fuck. This is the era where the band writes purely for themselves and their true fans. No one wil be playing the stones latest single in 2 months time and they have been promoting the hell out of it in a way that GnR never could. 

[Coma16]

I said it in the other thread before it was closed but I'll say it again here. Classic GNR purists won't like these. This is straight 🔥 for nuGNR fans. Slash did great on these both.

[alfa75]

Great comments. Totally understandable feelings. 
 

I do believe they will record 1 new original album. One, and only when Axl has finished getting out the songs he wants to get out.

[colonizedmind]

58 minutes ago, WhazUp said:

From my perspective, the lead section in the middle of Monsters was pretty much the only clearly discernable thing in the cell phone recording and I vastly perfer Slash's additions to it on this new version

Slash gave it this bluesy take that blends the old with the new and gives it more of the "GNR feel" but also gave that section a cool repeated motif with the string bending starting note that kicks off each phrase

I love Buckethead and Fink's work don't get me wrong, but when I hear that middle section in particular to me it is one of the most "Illusions era" guitar moments since the 90s in GNR-land IMO and it just feels like Dorothy and Toto finally landed back home where they should be

Poetically put and it really really sums up how I felt listening to it by like the 5th time, first few I think I was in shock...

Still listening, maybe like 15th time now and still finding new interests...that's a good sign. Who's kept their vinyl order? I never got an email in the first place (has everyone?!?) to cancel? I'm looking forward to getting it now....the surprise is gone 😔 but at least I know I like it 🙏 and it'll be a great keepsake (probably limited run collectors item too) 

PLUS look forward to final mixes and how they place them on record...

[colonizedmind]

The General was never Tommy.S.....it's turned out to be Axl's stepfather...it would seem. My god, don't think we're getting MV's for this! Still what the hell have the creative works made for it? Yikes 

[Sweersa]

I'm really looking forward to hearing the proper release, which I expect to be significantly clearer to whatever source these two songs came from. 

[colonizedmind]

2 minutes ago, Sweersa said:

I'm really looking forward to hearing the proper release, which I expect to be significantly clearer to whatever source these two songs came from. 

For sure. An Atmos mix would be trippy as fuck! I'll settle for HDTracks though to get all the sonic details in the cans 

Edited October 29, 2023 by colonizedmind

[Yugoss88]

I have listened it only twice before it got removed from YT

But personally I love it

And I would support album like this direction

i don't want appetite nor UYI too

but hey we got 5-6 new songs already so I’m cool with it

would be great if we could get this in one place like some sort of EP 

 

[axljungle]

Just heard with a good headphones, oh shit, is another song. Much better qualitty than computer speakers. It's a good song. Drums, guitar, bass everything evolve you.