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DeperilsofrockNRollDekednz

Why The Ashba Hate?

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1 hour ago, Amir said:

Had a moment of panic when I thought I'd lost the links to the gifs I made, but looks like they're still on my Imgur account:

rYf7ysf.gif

OGjc779.gif

e9KoQ7q.gif

And I agree with @seely; in 2010 he wasn't that bad (apart from butchering the TIL solo). He kept things simple, and got the crowd engaged. But once ASHBASWAGTM took over, and he started trying to do... something with the Patience outro solo, yeah, I wasn't a fan any more. Anyway, best of luck to him in his new ventures.

Dude, what shows are those gifs from? :lol:

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29 minutes ago, Azifwekare said:

Dude, what shows are those gifs from? :lol:

The middle and bottom ones are from the Vegas 2014 show that got made into the Appetite for Democracy Blu-Ray:

I think the top one is from a South America 2014 show?

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9 minutes ago, Amir said:

The middle and bottom ones are from the Vegas 2014 show that got made into the Appetite for Democracy Blu-Ray:

I think the top one is from a South America 2014 show?

Ah yes, I remember now being bemused as to why the band clapped after his solo :lol:

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3 hours ago, YourMother'sDruthers said:

I don’t usually care about a musicians “image” or “style” but his was embarrassingly laughable in gnr. That ridiculous faux top hat that he wore (notice he ONLY wore it in gnr, not sixx am)... was that meant to mock slash? Or to mimic him in some way? That ridiculous intro to WTTJ with the hogan ears? He was also, talent wise, the worst guitarist gnr ever had. When Finck left and was replaced by ashba, it was, to me, the end of nu gnr and any excitement I had about it.

This. He made Guns seem like Poison.  All image and very little creativity. 

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2 hours ago, Amir said:

The middle and bottom ones are from the Vegas 2014 show that got made into the Appetite for Democracy Blu-Ray:

I think the top one is from a South America 2014 show?

Just on a separate note about patience from the nu-gnr days - Richard Fortus couldn't play the rhythm guitar properly!

Used to drive me mad!

During the first few times they played it in NITL he played it wrong too - now it's OK. I can only assume that Slash sorted him out.

Patience is one of the first songs a huge amount of people have learnt on the guitar - I can't understand how he could make it sound so shithouse.

I would love to know if it was a genuine mistake or if he was purposefully changing it - if he was it was a terrible idea.

 

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So, the common criticisms are his playing is sloppy and he dresses for the little girls in tattoos, not edgy enough to have a beer with the manly men out there.

I agree that Queens of the Stone Age would probably never hire him, but his playing, or any player should be unique to the role. His role appeared to bridge Slash’s and Finck’s playing and nothing here in posts have persuaded me otherwise. I’m open to being persuaded. But with intelligent discussion not Beavis n Butthead jibes.

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, DeperilsofrockNRollDekednz said:

So, the common criticisms are his playing is sloppy and he dresses for the little girls in tattoos, not edgy enough to have a beer with the manly men out there.

I agree that Queens of the Stone Age would probably never hire him, but his playing, or any player should be unique to the role. His role appeared to bridge Slash’s and Finck’s playing and nothing here in posts have persuaded me otherwise. I’m open to being persuaded. But with intelligent discussion not Beavis n Butthead jibes.

He didn't "bridge" Slash's and Robin's playing imo. He simplified Robin's This I Love solo for example cause he just wasn't good enough to play it and when it came to Slash's solos he lacked the chops to do justice to a lot of them. His Patience solo for example was atrocious probably cause he also lacked the imagination/creativity to come up with his own interpretation like Robin did. He couldn't even play the second half of the SCOM solo.

I think you gotta at least have something going for you as a guitar player in a band like Gn'R where guitars are important and much of the time the focus. Every lead guitar player in Gn'R had a quality/ qualities in his playing that made him much better in comparison to Ashba imo. He wasn't good enough technically and there wasn't any redeeming x factor.

His image and stage antics didn't sit well with me either cause it seemed fake and forced. He also said he removed some of his tone and volume knobs from his Les Paul cause it was too complicated for him/confusing to handle. Said he didn't consider himself to be a guitarist as well if I'm not mistaken. In his rig rundown he had no idea about any of it, it was tough to watch. Just not good enough for a band of this caliber was my conclusion as soon as he joined Gn'R.

Edited by Rovim
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12 hours ago, DeperilsofrockNRollDekednz said:
 

Can someone explain to me why there is so much Ashba hate?

I admit that I have no problem with the guy. I like his live and studio versions of better where he adds his own take. I also like his GNR solo spots and the extra rev he added to the live version of This I love.

I can see some people finding his marketeering a bit crass. I don’t listen to his other stuff as I’m a Slash and Finck fan. The guy’s interview bravado is a bit annoying too, not to mention some stupid posts from his wife.

I rate Bucket, Slash & Finck over the other lead guitarists. Though Bumble is a nice guy, great player and arranger, his intended contribution to a GNR record seemed a bit naff. Admittedly I’ve not heard what Ashba wrote but Axl seemed keen and I rate Axl’s gut instinct over the other members.

I’m a basic guitarist, who loves music of many types, and has played a lot of instruments and sang over the years. I’ve not heard anything in Ashba’s playing that I fault. Are his critics musically literate enough to knock him? I’m not looking for a debate from any keyboard warrior, but if anyone is happy to discuss and clarify I’d greatly appreciate this please?

I also admit not to reading reams of posts.

because he was a pretentious hired-gun with no signiature of his own.

Also he looked and acted more like Justin Bieber than a proper Rock guitarist.

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He was a very rudimentary player. You don't have to search for long online to find a YouTube guitarist who can run rings around him. 

Not only that, his own music sounded like boyband rock for teenage girls. You know you're in trouble when you're in Nikki Sixx's second best band.

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Nope never liked Ashba. Although...I liked his This I Love solo from Reading 2010, personally feel any guitarist in Guns haven't better his take on that solo live.

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So, his playing is the issue. The playing I’ve witnessed with Asbha between 2010 & 12 seemed to row back from Finck’s use of dissonant sounds. As I said I prefer Finck’s novel take on Slash’s signature blues sound. In that sense the writing was on the wall once Finck left for a reunion to occur. No one though seems to acknowledge Axl’s patronage of Ashba, any thoughts?

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Problem was neither Finck or Ashba clicked the GNR guitar sound. Finck just did his own thing but was too avant garde with it, and Ashba was too safe without being remotely the level of wild playing GNR needed.

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Posted (edited)
22 minutes ago, moreblack said:

Problem was neither Finck or Ashba clicked the GNR guitar sound. Finck just did his own thing but was too avant garde with it, and Ashba was too safe without being remotely the level of wild playing GNR needed.

The worst thing you can do is to find someone to "click the Gn'R guitar sound". A Slash copycat that will never be as good as Slash. I'm not talking about Ashba cause he didn't come close. Instead, Axl's first choice was Robin. I don't think the problem was his style, I think if you look at the work he did on the album it's mostly a little more modern playing with unique note choices and tone, but it's still soulful and wild. He didn't have Slash's chops but he had enough to come up with the goods imo. His solos on This I Love, Better, Twat, and SOD for example are not at all too avant garde to my ears.

Problem he wasn't Slash to a lot of people/was too sloppy live.

Edited by Rovim

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Posted (edited)
23 hours ago, DeperilsofrockNRollDekednz said:

 No one though seems to acknowledge Axl’s patronage of Ashba, any thoughts?

Axl allegedly said if Ashba turns up to the the audition, he has the job. To me, I think this wasn't so much an indicator that Axl was overly enamored with Ashba as a guitarist, but more a sign of his general ambivalence towards GNR at that time of his life. 

By late 2008, he had just released the album and his lead guitarist quits on him for the second time. He refuses to promote it and we don't hear a single thing, no music videos, no TV appearances, no interviews, no touring, for a whole year. He was clearly fed up with the whole damn thing. 

When he did the chats on the board, a fan asked him when we might hear a follow up to CD, to which he replied "don't know, don't care."

I think he hired DJ with zero intention of ever recording any original music with the guy. Once the touring commenced in late 2009, he was again building the band from the ground up, with almost all of the primary players who influenced the sound of CD now being long gone. I think he was more than happy just to have guys that were happy to show up, do the shows, get paid and him not have to worry about creative endeavors anymore, as the whole process of writing and recording CD clearly took a huge mental toll on Axl.

Everyone reaches a point in their life when they just want to minimize stress and will do anything to have an easy life. Axl hired DJ imo because he no longer cared.

 

Edited by Towelie
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On 26/08/2019 at 11:45 PM, Amir said:

Had a moment of panic when I thought I'd lost the links to the gifs I made, but looks like they're still on my Imgur account:

rYf7ysf.gif

OGjc779.gif

e9KoQ7q.gif

And I agree with @seely; in 2010 he wasn't that bad (apart from butchering the TIL solo). He kept things simple, and got the crowd engaged. But once ASHBASWAGTM took over, and he started trying to do... something with the Patience outro solo, yeah, I wasn't a fan any more. Anyway, best of luck to him in his new ventures.

Shit. I'd never seen the one of Tommy right behind him or Dizzy clapping. Wtf. How weird and awkward. Kinda funny how the core group bullied Bucket and Ron then got saddled with Dazza. 

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On 27/08/2019 at 7:29 PM, moreblack said:

What is that ?

Romance. 

My least favourite Ashba is the one who told the story of he and Axl beating up some guy in a club that sounded like a guy who'd never even had a moderately heated discussion about tea. 

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For me, he just didn't play well enough.

When I saw him live I was kind of annoyed by all these out-of-key bends and dead notes. I'm sure bumble and fortus must have thought the same.

I've also seen slash live a couple of times and hè plays much better from a technical point of view.

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I actually went into one of those creepy demented haunted mansion online chats he did when he first joined the band 🙈

He was just a poser, wasn’t he. A wannabe. Everything he did/does is so fake, it’s all an image with him.

His stage antics were so annoying, I couldn’t look at him. 

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On 26/08/2019 at 10:48 PM, DeperilsofrockNRollDekednz said:
 

Can someone explain to me why there is so much Ashba hate?

I admit that I have no problem with the guy. I like his live and studio versions of better where he adds his own take. I also like his GNR solo spots and the extra rev he added to the live version of This I love.

I can see some people finding his marketeering a bit crass. I don’t listen to his other stuff as I’m a Slash and Finck fan. The guy’s interview bravado is a bit annoying too, not to mention some stupid posts from his wife.

I rate Bucket, Slash & Finck over the other lead guitarists. Though Bumble is a nice guy, great player and arranger, his intended contribution to a GNR record seemed a bit naff. Admittedly I’ve not heard what Ashba wrote but Axl seemed keen and I rate Axl’s gut instinct over the other members.

I’m a basic guitarist, who loves music of many types, and has played a lot of instruments and sang over the years. I’ve not heard anything in Ashba’s playing that I fault. Are his critics musically literate enough to knock him? I’m not looking for a debate from any keyboard warrior, but if anyone is happy to discuss and clarify I’d greatly appreciate this please?

I also admit not to reading reams of posts.

Ok, well the marketing was one big thing for everybody.

The main reason for the hate was average playing. He was very, very basic! Minor pentatonic, major pentatonic, harmonic monor was his limit and while that might be other well known guitar players knowledge too, other guitar players developed it beyond bar band playing.

Very average phrasing, hit and miss intonation of bends, timing was poor. These are all things that stood out, I wasn't listening with the goal to slam him as a player.

At the end of the day, the guy scored a great gig, and I personally felt that he didn't put the effort in to really do it justice. There was a moment during the first few months of 2009 in 2010 that he seemed ok, bur he clearly stopped practicing and that's where the major cracks appeared.

Seems like a genuine nice guy, was great with the fans, he had a charisma about him. Just not a guitar player I'd rate highly. He suits playing his own music, and more simple straight ahead current American rock radio.

Bumblefoot is obviously head and shoulders above him as a technician, but also as a composer. Was bumble right for the band? Yes and no! He definitely made the Chinese democracy the song much better and sleazier than the demo. I think had bumble been let loose to write for guns he would have made better music than what Dj was offering. Based on? Based on that Bumble writes great solo material, and seems to be able to write well with others too. Dj was writing dumbed down Seether style drop D music, which is fine if you like that but I never! Want to hear gnr being Seether lite. Now, I haven't heard it! But I have heard the music he helped write for motleys final album and it was generic Rock radio shit.

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