Holy shit Izzy loves us

[The Holographic Universe]

53 minutes ago, StrangerInThisTown said:

You and @The Holographic Universe read my post again pls, I'm not talking about the partnership. I mean 25% of tour profits, that does not require to invite Izzy back into the partnership the big 3 had going for the last 20+ years. Izzy was probably not intending to go back to that but of the money he earns for this tour, even without Izzy, reportedly they didn't split the loot equally between the 3. Axl gets 50% and Slash and Duff 25%. Izzy wanted 25% of the earnings for every one of them equally so no one gets paid more than the other because just like in 1991, Izzy doesnt like seeing himself or anyone as a "lesser" employee than Axl in a band he created and helped make it big.

There is no way Slash allows Axl to receive 50% of the profits from the tour. This is speculation. There hasn't been any reported facts about who gets what from the tour.

[Magnus Cavalerra]

It's 50% + 25% + 25% iirc Eddie Money is the one who said this.

[RONIN]

32 minutes ago, StrangerInThisTown said:

I'd agree if he would ONLY have said that he quit. But he's also saying everywhere that Axl had called him and asked him to be a part of it. And Axl hasn't disputed that to this day. And what would Axl gain from allowing him to spread that too? He knows no one wanted Ashba in the band if Slash returned. I'm of the opinion that sometimes no matter how juicy something is, if you still feel it's wrong inside you will decline it. And that's what it seems he did. The theory of him saving face is also plausible but I just don't see Axl agreeing to that with him also saying to the press everywhere that Axl asked him to stay.

It sounds crazy, but hey, maybe you're right. If Axl wanted Ashba in the band with Fortus and Slash though, he has truly lost his marbles. Christ, that would have been awful. But then again, this is the same guy who brought Paul Tobias into the band so anything is possible I suppose.

I guess that would explain Fortus and Frank still being there. Axl isn't going to fire them and they sure as hell aren't going to quit on their own. Best money they will ever see. I agree though that for some people, integrity beats cash. Good money couldn't keep guys like Finck and Buckethead in the band. Bumblefoot as well eventually. 

 

[FuriousStyles]

12 hours ago, ZoSoRose said:

Hey Izzy! Stop by!

 

 

Spoiler

 

[RONIN]

32 minutes ago, -W.A.R- said:

no way Slash and Duff accepted 25%. Axl had all but squandered the name away before they returned, so im guessing they would tell him to fuck off offering that. i think the Big 3 are getting in the neighborhood of 33% each. Izzy wanted to be cut equally bringing that down to 25% each. i have no evidence to back this up, but im guessing Izzy would have accepted a reasonable offer...however they lowballed him. 

It looks like Axl is getting a 50% split, but he has to pay his circus performers/entourage/leeches. So if he brings in Tracey and Roberta, Teddy ZigZag, another keyboard player and an elephant on a tricycle, that's all coming out of his end.

Given Axl's love for bloating up the band with useless shit, Duff and Slash wisely opted for a clean 25% stake. Therefore, Izzy wanting a 4 way split just wouldn't have been feasible. My suspicion is that the real disagreement (as someone else mentioned here) is over the touring and merchandising split. They probably wanted to just bring in Izzy like a hired gun and not allow any revenue sharing arrangement. Pure greed, plain and simple. As you said, they most likely lowballed him and figured he'd work for chump change like Steven. 

Edited March 11, 2017 by RONIN

[SEPTEM]

11 hours ago, ZoSoRose said:

I understand this, but the big 3 have been silent about this. Izzy and Steven seem to give the relatively same story, so why shouldn't I believe them?

This doesn't mean I dislike GNR right now, or that I don't like Frank and Richard (I'm still a big fan of them), but I am disappointment them seem to have boned Izzy and Steven. I wasn't there, I don't know what happened, but as a fan I think its ok to form an opinion based on the perspective Izzy and Steven provide us with.

Ok now we're talking.

Valid and fear. I respect that 

 

But like i said with the whole "axl-slash feud" .    we need both sides of the story.

Till we get it, all we can do is asume theorys and stuff like that.. But we cant believe those like indisputable truths, pointing fingers and all of that.

 

[L'HopitalsRule]

9 minutes ago, SEPTEM said:

Ok now we're talking.

Valid and fear. I respect that 

 

But like i said with the whole "axl-slash feud" .    we need both sides of the story.

Till we get it, all we can do is asume theorys and stuff like that.. But we cant believe those like indisputable truths, pointing fingers and all of that.

 

See I always thought the Izzy NO! thing was because he wasn't into doing large shows and prefered the local musician lifestyle. With Steven who knows but he has his health issues. I wouldn't be surprised if "the loot" was also a factor but really who knows besides Izzy himself. You are correct on that one. 

Who knows man. I wish they were more open with the fans sometimes. A girl can dream.

[IncitingChaos]

I don't think Axl was as disrespectful as some believe to Izzy on the money situation but I'm sure he disrespected him in other ways. Possibly didn't believe Izzy was capable of fulfilling over 100 tour dates in a calendar year, or didn't feel he was as good as Richard for the touring band. 

I do think Axl respects Izzy's ability to write music and sees Izzy as a major contribution to the GNR name but for Axl this was all about touring. If he wanted to go back and create a AFD record with a band he'd go get the two guys missing, but this isn't about new music, it's about doing a massive victory lap around the world with Slash while collecting money. The rest is fillers 

[cqleonardo]

24 minutes ago, SEPTEM said:

But like i said with the whole "axl-slash feud" .    we need both sides of the story.

 

THIS

[Caught_in_a_Coma]

13 minutes ago, IncitingChaos said:

I don't think Axl was as disrespectful as some believe to Izzy on the money situation but I'm sure he disrespected him in other ways. Possibly didn't believe Izzy was capable of fulfilling over 100 tour dates in a calendar year, or didn't feel he was as good as Richard for the touring band. 

I do think Axl respects Izzy's ability to write music and sees Izzy as a major contribution to the GNR name but for Axl this was all about touring. If he wanted to go back and create a AFD record with a band he'd go get the two guys missing, but this isn't about new music, it's about doing a massive victory lap around the world with Slash while collecting money. The rest is fillers 

Exactly.  Why isn't this brought up more? Even back somewhere around 06-12 when Axl had nothing to do with Slash (can't remember if he had patched things up with Duff yet) Izzy had done some NuGN'R tours, Axl said he could only see a reunion with Slash and Duff working and not with the other classic members

[RONIN]

33 minutes ago, IncitingChaos said:

I don't think Axl was as disrespectful as some believe to Izzy on the money situation but I'm sure he disrespected him in other ways. Possibly didn't believe Izzy was capable of fulfilling over 100 tour dates in a calendar year, or didn't feel he was as good as Richard for the touring band. 

I do think Axl respects Izzy's ability to write music and sees Izzy as a major contribution to the GNR name but for Axl this was all about touring. If he wanted to go back and create a AFD record with a band he'd go get the two guys missing, but this isn't about new music, it's about doing a massive victory lap around the world with Slash while collecting money. The rest is fillers 

Seems plausible.

My theory is that Axl no longer sees Izzy as either a good enough guitar player for the band nor a necessary presence to move the band forward. He has no interest in replicating the past and probably thinks Izzy may not be a good fit for a "modern" GnR (either live or on a future album).  Duff and Slash have been out there touring and had a successful band (VR), so they've kept their chops "current", so to speak unlike Izzy. Axl has sort of intimated this about Steven before -- finding his sound outdated. Given how nutty the redhead is, it's plausible he could think the same of Izzy.

I guess an analogy could be trying to do a sequel to a huge movie years later and then bringing back the original cast. For Terminator 3, they brought back Arnold...but they passed on bringing back Edward Furlong who was no longer a relevant star anymore. They didn't want to pay his fee and he wasn't much of a star anymore, so they just replaced him with some random guy. Could be the same scenario here. Had Slash continued to churn out Snakepit records and faded away, perhaps even this reunion may not have come to pass.

Edited March 11, 2017 by RONIN

[IncitingChaos]

Axl and Izzy seem to share a unique relationship in that they never hate each other but they have a family like bond that brings them back together. Izzy has said worse things about Axl than anyone else and Axl just takes it for what it is...likely will give him a phone call and say "wtf" 

Axl only ever says "Izzy does what Izzy does" so who knows how he feels about him at any given moment but like it was mentioned many times Izzy showed up for Axl various times between 06-12. 

With that said I don't think Izzy's GNR days are over...he'll be back but it will be on Izzy's terms and Axl will come to accept it.  

[Funky.Monkey]

ZoSoRose last won the day on March 10

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[The Macaroni Incident?]

Izzy is such a cool motherfucker.

[Padme]

3 hours ago, Magnus Cavalerra said:

It's 50% + 25% + 25% iirc Eddie Money is the one who said this.

I think that's correct. But here is the catch, Axl doesn't keep that 50% for himself only. He pays Frank, Richard, Melissa, TB, etc. So that 50% ends up being like 30% or less in his own pocket. Those people have been hired by him. Adler said that Fernando paid him. Obviously Fernando didn't pay with his own money. Where Adler's money came from?

[Padme]

2 hours ago, RONIN said:

Seems plausible.

My theory is that Axl no longer sees Izzy as either a good enough guitar player for the band nor a necessary presence to move the band forward. He has no interest in replicating the past and probably thinks Izzy may not be a good fit for a "modern" GnR (either live or on a future album).  Duff and Slash have been out there touring and had a successful band (VR), so they've kept their chops "current", so to speak unlike Izzy. Axl has sort of intimated this about Steven before -- finding his sound outdated. Given how nutty the redhead is, it's plausible he could think the same of Izzy.

I guess an analogy could be trying to do a sequel to a huge movie years later and then bringing back the original cast. For Terminator 3, they brought back Arnold...but they passed on bringing back Edward Furlong who was no longer a relevant star anymore. They didn't want to pay his fee and he wasn't much of a star anymore, so they just replaced him with some random guy. Could be the same scenario here. Had Slash continued to churn out Snakepit records and faded away, perhaps even this reunion may not have come to pass.

Sorry I disagree. Izzy joined Axl in 2006 for the first time in ages. I remember watching a video of that show. Axl gave Izzy a big hug. He was so happy to have Izzy there. Also Izzy joined NuGN'R in 2012 in London and Vegas. Izzy played more shows with NuGN'R than "Without Paul there would be no Guns N Roses Tobias" It doesn't seem that the issue was modern GN'R.

We know they wanted Izzy for this reunion. But it seems to me that Izzy didn't want to be just a mere hired guy like Richard is. And I understand Izzy. such deal is disrespecful, assuming he was offered that. We don't know. Unfortunately Axl didn't give a straight answer. And Izzy only mentioned what it was not offered to him

[RooSaa]

3 hours ago, Caught_in_a_Coma said:

 Axl said he could only see a reunion with Slash and Duff working and not with the other classic members

did he explain why?

[estranged_85]

theories theories... haha think the band members would have a laugh if they read all the theories in here, especially when some folks state their theory as they're straight facts

Don't get me wrong, i love this forum and all the theories just had my morning coffee and cruising around the forum! have a good weekend everybody!

[Tomek1985]

5 hours ago, RONIN said:

For Terminator 3, they brought back Arnold...but they passed on bringing back Edward Furlong who was no longer a relevant star anymore. They didn't want to pay his fee and he wasn't much of a star anymore, so they just replaced him with some random guy.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0181852/faq?mode=desktop#.2.1.1

[Top-Hatted One]

6 hours ago, RONIN said:

Seems plausible.

My theory is that Axl no longer sees Izzy as either a good enough guitar player for the band nor a necessary presence to move the band forward. He has no interest in replicating the past and probably thinks Izzy may not be a good fit for a "modern" GnR (either live or on a future album).  Duff and Slash have been out there touring and had a successful band (VR), so they've kept their chops "current", so to speak unlike Izzy. Axl has sort of intimated this about Steven before -- finding his sound outdated. Given how nutty the redhead is, it's plausible he could think the same of Izzy.

I guess an analogy could be trying to do a sequel to a huge movie years later and then bringing back the original cast. For Terminator 3, they brought back Arnold...but they passed on bringing back Edward Furlong who was no longer a relevant star anymore. They didn't want to pay his fee and he wasn't much of a star anymore, so they just replaced him with some random guy. Could be the same scenario here. Had Slash continued to churn out Snakepit records and faded away, perhaps even this reunion may not have come to pass.

Remember Scott Weiland saying the songs Slash, Duff, Izzy & Matt wrote sounded Too much like "Bad Company"

then again you had Matt saying those songs would make the best GNR ever.

i know from the few early VR demos we heard that those songs did sound outdated, very straight forward "Bad Co"

also Izzy working with Matt again on "FP Money" makes me think he would be okay with Matt being involved with the original 5 in some capacity 

[Top-Hatted One]

Maybe they need Steven Adler not Matt for it not to sound outdated like Bad Company. 

Izzy was right in saying firing Steven was the beginning of the end of Guns N' Roses. 

You can say the Izzy songs on UYI do sound outdated. Whereas AFD still sounds fresh and timeless.

Just not according to Axl opinion on a given day. Although Axl has been playing a AFD heavy set for the past 16yrs which is pretty hypocritical. 

[Good, Fuck'n, Night.]

17 hours ago, Derick said:

Have you guys already thought about the possibility that Izzy just doesn't want to be part of this? After he left the band he did not get entangled with big tours, big festivals, he did not try to put together a "big band"(besides that VR episode)... That is, this does not seem to be his thing, just that. That it's not his thing to travel around the world, playing in stadiums and dealing with everything that a big tour demands.. And this money thing is just a pretext for not getting involved...We constantly try to find explanations or guilts to crucify... But if Izzy just don´t want to? 

What part of "BULLSHIT, THEY DIDN'T WANT TO SPLIT THE LOOT EQUALLY, SIMPLE AS THAT" is confusing you?

Anyone with half a brain can put 2 & 2 together. The man knows his worth & has integrity. He chose to sell out & walk, that is true, but for good reason at the time. Its pure dumb luck the others survived to get to this point. Izzy still views himself as equal to the others & rightly so. They had one chance to get this right & they didn't. It was cool seeing the three together this year but that was only 3/5 of GnR. People around here who think Frank & Richard have earned their spots through time served are fucking kooks. 

14 years is one of my fave gunners tunes, was singing that shit on the way to work this morning. Izzy you fucking rock man. 

Love Slash & Axl, but if anyone, including them, think they are all that is needed in GnR are just as delusional as Axl was thinking he could go it alone. The sum of GnR was far greater than its parts, and it had some fucking incredible parts. 

They are however all that is needed to make bank, and that seriously removes a lot of the shine for me.

 

[Good, Fuck'n, Night.]

16 hours ago, Sosso said:

He could have become the Malcolm Young of GN'R but he left the band and they moved on without him. Deal with it.

[James Bond]

4 hours ago, RooSaa said:

did he explain why?

"All these managers, they know one thing. They know that they can at least ... sell a reunion tour and get their commission. It’s just a phone call. It’s a half a day’s ... work, or however long they want to keep the bidding war going. They get their commission and they don’t care if it falls on its face.

Because, really, you can get guys from the "Illusion" thing, but the only thing that would make it would be Duff and Slash, really. It’s nothing against Izzy and it’s nothing against Steven, or anything like that. Steven may want it, but these guys I’m working with right now, they work really hard and it’s hard work. I’ve toured with the other guys and I’ve also seen what they’ve done since, and I just know the difficulties."

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/music_blog/2011/12/axl-rose-talks-playing-los-angeles-rock-hall-reunion.html

As you can see, he doesn't say anything direct - he just implies that he works better with Slash and Duff.

[Top-Hatted One]

Yea everything about Izzy and his personality contradicts the personalities of the others