Can You Really Tell the Difference from Each GN’R Drummer?

[MyPrettyTiedUpMichelle]

4 hours ago, RONIN said:

Not sure how someone can slam Frank but praise Sorum, one of the most boring and unimaginative drummers around (imho). 

I always saw it like this:

Adler: Punk style that feels loose and groovy. Almost feels like it's going off the rails - like he can't keep the beat but at the last minute somehow makes it work. As Izzy said, Steven has an accidental style which is perfect for the chaotic live sound of Guns. Adler's style is dated though - I don't see how he adapts to newer guns material. There's a reason he wasn't asked to be in VR or drum in Snakepit or any of Slash's solo albums. With all due respect to Steven, he hasn't evolved much as a musician.

Sorum: Metal drummer with a clinical precision. He sounded much better on the Spaghetti, Sympathy and the VR stuff - but still, as someone else mentioned, he's the most "session" sounding drummer the band ever had. And he has a very plodding, "heavy" sound.

Freese: Punk w/ precision and groove. He's a natural talent and easily the best drummer the band ever had. Imho, guns needs a punk drummer to capture their style properly.

Brain: A cross between Adler and Freese. Fucking awesome drummer. He's looser than Freese and a bit more unpredictable in his style. His background makes him more dynamic in some ways even if Freese is the better drummer.

Frank: Kind of a poor man's Brain really. Has a bit of all the guns drummers - a little groove, a little precision and skill, he can hit hard like sorum, - but no real discernible style or sound. Even if he's generic, he's got more feel than Sorum and that puts him ahead for me. A matt sorum drum solo sounds a lot more painful to me than a Frank solo. 

Thank you for defining the styles of each one.  I have no ear for drumming, can't tell a good one from a bad one.  I've always wondered what it is that sets them all apart and why Frank is so apparently awful.  I wish I could listen to the differences but wouldn't know where to start.

Can anyone recommend any videos that show a clear difference between say Frank and someone else?

Edited December 2, 2017 by MyPrettyTiedUpMichelle

[Len Cnut]

Yeah, i reckon so.  Sorum sounds clunky and robotic though quite good for some songs, Frank for what I've heard is a slightly more talented version of the same, Brain was a fuckin' sharp and tight as fuck and Adler is the loose as a goose one who gives the songs that wonderful out of control locomotive type sound.

Edited December 2, 2017 by Len Cnut

[Nikki_Sixx]

Absolutely.

Adler and Sorum were actually IN the band, recorded with the band, and as such in a way played their own material, on which they both shine in their own way.

All the others were only members of Axl's solo band, never recorded any GNR material, only played Adler's and Sorum's material and covers ...  Never even managed to play the GNR catalogue correctly (or felt the need to 'add their own twist', totally misplaced sacrilege).  Mere hired/session musicians in a coverband.  And it shows.

The only non-gnr drummer that plays GNR songs correctly is Brent Fitz.

It's not because you're a good drummer, that you're a good GNR drummer.  Brain is an amazing drummer, yet he totally sucks on GNR's back catalogue.  Frank is way out of his league...

The same goes for other musicians.  Buckethead is a virtuoso guitarist, I really enjoy his work on Axl's solo album CD (yes, I do), but he has no place in GNR.

[F*ck Fear]

Of course.

Steven Adler was the best Guns N' Roses drummer.

Matt Sorum sounded better in Velvet Revolver than he did in Guns.

Brain was a tight drummer but I HATE his You Could Be Mine intro.

Franks a fine drummer and I have no complaints about his techniques.

[F*ck Fear]

1 hour ago, Nikki_Sixx said:

Buckethead is a virtuoso guitarist, I really enjoy his work on Axl's solo album CD (yes, I do), but he has no place in GNR.

Bucket's work on songs like November Rain, Out Ta Get Me, and Nightrain was fucking amazing! Obviously not as good as the originals, but amazing nonetheless.

[soon]

At least Frank can point to Don Henley as worst GNR drum performance 

Biggest difference between Frank and Sorum is that Matt is known in the industry as being a human drum machine because he's always in time even with out a metronome, whereas Frank is known for playing to a metronome and still often being out of time.   Frank doesnt get the nuances in things Matt created like the cymbal riff in Estranged.  Franks also noteworthy for rising from being Brains understudy because Brain prioritized family life and later didnt want to steal back half the gig when Axl offered to have Brain back to play the more involved material. Frank is prone to chasing the guitars during the turn arounds, rather then anchoring them.

Brain is a beast.  Great at just rocking out in the pocket and great at prog and avant-garde.  Out of all of them I also really enjoy hearing him talk about playing drums the most, too.  Brain can play the ghost notes and swells that Frank crashes and burns on nightly.  I dont like his tweaks on Brown Stone and a few others I cant bring to mind though.  Brain is able to conceptualize and internalize the others playing - he understand what Alder does to swing, he understands the precision Matt goes for, more than any of the rest he is deeply musical.

Adler is the GNR drummer.  Not to be underestimated.  'Swing' isnt some folksy adjective, it is an art form and isnt identified as sloppiness - either ones born with it or works very hard to find it.  The way he uses high hat is very smart too - nice and weighty.  He brings his funk know how to the high hat, but keeps it very much rock n roll. The way he's extra, extra behind the beat on his splash and crash cymbals is pure gold.  And that shuffle in PC outro!!  He's incredibly astute in his understanding of rock n roll drumming.  

[El Guapo]

As a musician myself, I hear it much more than I would like to sometimes.

In my opinion Steven was just as important as the other 4 original guys.

When he played with them on this tour it sounded phenomenal, so, so much better than any other drummer. Steven Adler is the real deal for Guns N' Roses.

The other drummers all have their strenghts and weak points but as long as it's not Steven it doesn't really matter to me personally.

Edited December 2, 2017 by El Guapo

[Tom-Ass]

They are miles apart.. The band always sounded best with Steven behind the kit and that was briefly pointed out again last year.. Maybe that is why Axl wasn't fond of him having a bigger part. Because he was magnifying how much his boy doesn't fit. I was always hit or miss with Sorum but looking back I would have loved to see him over Frank.. I thought he was great on Libertad too. When you have a replacement drummer I think the idea is to try and keep the groove of the original band and not be noticed so much.. Frank sticks out like a sore thumb..

Off topic but my all time favorite drummer is Bill Ward.. That is one of the few bands where I listen to the drums almost as much as the other instruments. I was very skeptical that he wouldn't be involved with the 13 and End tours but Tommy Clufetos did a phenomenal job.. I just wish Guns could have found someone like him who could really do the songs justice. Much easier job doing it in Gn'R than Sabbath..

[Top-Hatted One]

15 hours ago, AxlRoseCDII said:

To me Frank’s drum set is on a weird tone and he chooses to play some of the songs differently than the way they were recorded such as Estranged, Brownstone, Rocket Queen, etc. That being said I don’t hate the guy as a drummer and I don’t knock anyone for preferring him but I personally don’t think he’s the best fit for the band and wish someone would take his spot.

Yea there is no room for an improve drummer in GNR. Duff, Steven and Matt worked so hard on developing a rock solid foundation in the pocket. They valued making GNRs rhythm section as tight sounding as any great band before them. Allowing Axl and Slash to go off.

Richard improvising in certain spots is fine but not the drums. You can't be adding fills over Slash & Axl's signature moments in key songs. It's throws everything off and you wind up drowning Slash and Axl. And am I the only one who still thinks the pace is way off and rushed in some songs?

Edited December 2, 2017 by Top-Hatted One

[Top-Hatted One]

I can only imagine how difficult it would be if they were planning on making a new album and working through songs in rehearsals and studio with Frank on drums. It must be like pulling teeth and instant writers block.

IMO as long as Frank if behind the drums, the idea of releasing new music is an unrealistic pipe dream.

The drummer plays a critical role in GNR. Duff and Slash have made that very clear over the years.  So Frank being there means they only intend on touring even if they could potentially sound so much better live.

They don't care as long as they are maximizing their profit as the loot keeps flowing in.

[ToonGuns]

4 minutes ago, Top-Hatted One said:

I can only imagine how difficult it would be if they were planning on making a new album and working through songs in rehearsals and studio with Frank on drums. It must be like pulling teeth and instant writers block.

IMO as long as Frank if behind the drums, the idea of releasing new music is an unrealistic pipe dream.

The drummer plays a critical role in GNR. Duff and Slash have made that very clear over the years.  So Frank being there means they only intend on touring even if they could potentially sound so much better live.

They don't care as long as they are maximizing their profit as the loot keeps flowing in.

If they release a new album (emphasis on "if") I reckon it'll be Brain on drums.

[Ralphelmo]

3 hours ago, Tom-Ass said:

 I just wish Guns could have found someone like him who could really do the songs justice. Much easier job doing it in Gn'R than Sabbath..

I believe Slash found that guy 7 years ago and you know him well

[Top-Hatted One]

4 hours ago, soon said:

At least Frank can point to Don Henley as worst GNR drum performance 

Biggest difference between Frank and Sorum is that Matt is known in the industry as being a human drum machine because he's always in time even with out a metronome, whereas Frank is known for playing to a metronome and still often being out of time.   Frank doesnt get the nuances in things Matt created like the cymbal riff in Estranged.  Franks also noteworthy for rising from being Brains understudy because Brain prioritized family life and later didnt want to steal back half the gig when Axl offered to have Brain back to play the more involved material. Frank is prone to chasing the guitars during the turn arounds, rather then anchoring them.

Brain is a beast.  Great at just rocking out in the pocket and great at prog and avant-garde.  Out of all of them I also really enjoy hearing him talk about playing drums the most, too.  Brain can play the ghost notes and swells that Frank crashes and burns on nightly.  I dont like his tweaks on Brown Stone and a few others I cant bring to mind though.  Brain is able to conceptualize and internalize the others playing - he understand what Alder does to swing, he understands the precision Matt goes for, more than any of the rest he is deeply musical.

Adler is the GNR drummer.  Not to be underestimated.  'Swing' isnt some folksy adjective, it is an art form and isnt identified as sloppiness - either ones born with it or works very hard to find it.  The way he uses high hat is very smart too - nice and weighty.  He brings his funk know how to the high hat, but keeps it very much rock n roll. The way he's extra, extra behind the beat on his splash and crash cymbals is pure gold.  And that shuffle in PC outro!!  He's incredibly astute in his understanding of rock n roll drumming.  

Great point about Steven's uncanny knack for sitting on the beat a little longer than the norm then exploding on the snare, splash & crash symbols. 

It adds a key element and people rock out to those parts subconsciously without realizing why.  

Like in Sweet Child, My Michelle, It's so easy, Brownstone PC etc

I've heard so many people say they don't care who's behind the kit for GNR as long as the other guys are there. Not true at all

Edited December 2, 2017 by Top-Hatted One

[ToonGuns]

Speaking of Sabbath the similarities with Adler, the RATM drummer who played on 13, and Phil Rudd from AC/DC is they all excel at playing in the pocket just behind the groove. It's natural, not taught.

Edited December 2, 2017 by ToonGuns
typo

[Top-Hatted One]

9 minutes ago, ToonGuns said:

If they release a new album (emphasis on "if") I reckon it'll be Brain on drums.

That would be the perfect scenario. 

However, I'd be torn between wanting an evolved sounding GNR record or getting the AFD5 in studio together to try to recreate the magic. 

[Robert39]

Brent Fitz would do a great job behind the kit, wen they made a new album !! really enjoyed him in SMKC !!!

But if the AFD 5 could get recording................ Steven is the number 1

Those 2 songs last year, are the best of the tour !!!!! And it came to close for AXL........... Maybe??

[Top-Hatted One]

12 hours ago, RONIN said:

Not sure how someone can slam Frank but praise Sorum, one of the most boring and unimaginative drummers around (imho). 

 

 

 

 

Because meat and potatoes is more effective than caviar when you are hungry.

Sorum's key contributions in studio to songs like YCBM, Coma, Estranged & Nov Rain can't be overlooked.

Sorum definitely killed the energy and groove on a lot of UYI songs like Back of Bitch, Breakdown, 14 years, etc

So in a perfect world someone more interesting and versatile would be behind the kit for GNR. Someone like Brain

Edited December 2, 2017 by Top-Hatted One

[Gibson87]

I feel like a lot of people on here hate Frank/Matt because they aren't Steven. 

[RONIN]

3 minutes ago, Top-Hatted One said:

Because meat and potatoes is more effective than caviar when you are hungry.

But in a perfect world someone more interesting and versatile would be behind the kit for GNR. Someone like Brain

Fair enough, I could get behind that. Do you prefer Brain to Freese?

[WhazUp]

I honestly don't think Frank is as terrible as people here make him out to be.  Sure he doesn't have the Popcorn feel, but there musically is nothing that stands out as remarkably horrid.  I thought the shows I saw sounded fine with him behind the throne as well as the recordings/videos from this year

[RONIN]

5 hours ago, soon said:

At least Frank can point to Don Henley as worst GNR drum performance 

Biggest difference between Frank and Sorum is that Matt is known in the industry as being a human drum machine because he's always in time even with out a metronome, whereas Frank is known for playing to a metronome and still often being out of time.   Frank doesnt get the nuances in things Matt created like the cymbal riff in Estranged.  Franks also noteworthy for rising from being Brains understudy because Brain prioritized family life and later didnt want to steal back half the gig when Axl offered to have Brain back to play the more involved material. Frank is prone to chasing the guitars during the turn arounds, rather then anchoring them.

Brain is a beast.  Great at just rocking out in the pocket and great at prog and avant-garde.  Out of all of them I also really enjoy hearing him talk about playing drums the most, too.  Brain can play the ghost notes and swells that Frank crashes and burns on nightly.  I dont like his tweaks on Brown Stone and a few others I cant bring to mind though.  Brain is able to conceptualize and internalize the others playing - he understand what Alder does to swing, he understands the precision Matt goes for, more than any of the rest he is deeply musical.

Adler is the GNR drummer.  Not to be underestimated.  'Swing' isnt some folksy adjective, it is an art form and isnt identified as sloppiness - either ones born with it or works very hard to find it.  The way he uses high hat is very smart too - nice and weighty.  He brings his funk know how to the high hat, but keeps it very much rock n roll. The way he's extra, extra behind the beat on his splash and crash cymbals is pure gold.  And that shuffle in PC outro!!  He's incredibly astute in his understanding of rock n roll drumming.  

Out of likes, awesome post. Where do you stand with Freese? 

[Top-Hatted One]

Fitz is solid but a little generic live and in studio. You'd want someone more interesting for GNR. Someone capable of adding key elements to great songs like Sorum on YCBM, Adler on every AFD song and Brain on CD. Fitz never really made that kind of impact in studio.

When Slash put his solo record out  I remembered being disappointed when I first heard his take on By The Sword after following the making of the record with Josh Freese and when Slash & Friends debuted that song in LA with Travis Barker, another beast, behind the kit. 

Then I saw SMKC play it in their Late Night Show tv debut with Fitz and it sounded more bland and generic. 

[Top-Hatted One]

15 minutes ago, RONIN said:

Fair enough, I could get behind that. Do you prefer Brain to Freese?

Brain is a much better fit for Slash and Duff. He knows his place in songs. He gets the push and pull thing.

Freese is very flashy but he is so world class that he also can play in the pocket. He proved he could on Slash's solo record. He would have to tone it done for GNR with Slash and Duff. 

I just think of Freese as more of a world class Studio & Live Drummer For Hire than a band guy. 

 

[soon]

8 hours ago, RONIN said:

Out of likes, awesome post. Where do you stand with Freese? 

Oh, thanks for saying so.  I really admire his playing in general.  His arrangements on APC's debut are really well crafted, imo.  Drumming for NIN is kinda a bench mark to me, too.  As for his playing in GNR, honestly, Ive always felt a bit at a loss to asses.  Mostly because by coming late to the CD saga Im not sure what - if any - leaks he played on?  CD certainly has the Brain "feel" that Axl instructed him to bring so I find that a little perplexing.  But the drum patterns are really tight on all of CD.  Better, a Brain arrangement, is my favourite but all of it is really great, to my ears.

I think he crushes it on OMG! Intense beats. Verses are very tasty and he manages to, locking in with Tommy, make a rather plodding chorus interesting rhythmically with out over doing it.  I love how he avoids cliches in the disco beat section and builds it to a very rocking climax at end.  So going by that Im really into his work in GNR.

How about yourself?

Edit: forgot you had already shared your thoughts on Freese.  

Edited December 3, 2017 by soon

[Top-Hatted One]

Very true Freese playing on OMG is immense! He would probably have to tone it down if playing with Slash and Duff though so it would be a bit of a waste of his talents. Like brining Bucket in to play rhythm guitar