lame ass security Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 (edited) An artist shouldn't be censored in any way but they should be prepared for any type of backlash it will receive. The criticism and backlash are forms of free speech also. Edited October 17, 2019 by lame ass security 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soon Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 (edited) 17 minutes ago, adamsapple said: The first verse and the chorus are likely to trigger some people who didn't get the memo to "fuck off and buy something from the new age section" in case they take offense by this music. I don't get all that "oh its offensive" bullshit. It's Guns N' Roses for fucks sake. If people want icecream and sodapop lyrics just go listen to something else. It's not like anyone forces people to buy GNR records or attend their shows. Haha, thanks! But Im still not getting what about the first verse and chorus, though? Like, New Age people love kink as much as the next person. Edited October 16, 2019 by soon 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ant Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 (edited) 15 hours ago, StrangerInThisTown said: ISE is not just played but also the opener, so I doubt anyone would give a shit about this song. Playing Get In The Ring would be way more controversial I feel like Get In The Ring would have an "old man yells at cloud" vibe nowadays. Bob Who? What magazine? The music of that song still kicks ass, though. It would have been cool live at the time! All of them sharing vocals... and Slash giving that sendoff. That song works if you sell it as a total toss-off fun rock song.... it's such an easy song to trash. Sure it gets weird with the cackling laughter and shit, but every time I read critiques of it I roll my eyes... "... an attack on journalists." Aight, let's simmer down.... Edited October 16, 2019 by Ant 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jw224 Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 (edited) 7 hours ago, action said: I don't think that Axl "hates" gay people, when he used that term. If he did, he wouldn't cite Queen and Elton as major influences. Axl meant to offend, not to incite hate. Hell, if Axl did intend to be hateful, I don't think people would still buy their records. Who wants to be associated with a hateful person? I think most of us can see, that Axl didn't mean hate, but rather offence. It's ok to offend. It's all about the intention. I see no problem there. Even when using that term. People should stop acting like drama queens over certain words, and grow some spine. I don't think that matters. The words mean what they mean and they will obviously be taken the way they are taken, and Axl must've known that when he used them. Also, responding to people rightfully condemning homophobia and racism with "grow some spine" is really, really stupid. Edited October 16, 2019 by Jw224 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ant Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 (edited) 3 hours ago, soon said: I like your take - something about food and sex!! You might very well be right about the booklet. The lyric sites usually mention both phrases, with one in brackets. If I had to guess the lyrics were written as "cool and stressing" but you know Axl, always cracking jokes.. See I always thought it was supposed to be jizz... given the theme... and the way he says it. Just me? Anyone else? Edited October 16, 2019 by Ant 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangerInThisTown Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 3 minutes ago, Ant said: I feel like Get In The Ring would have an "old man yells at cloud" vibe nowadays. Bob Who? What magazine? The music of that song still kicks ass, though. It would have been cool live at the time! All of them sharing vocals... and Slash giving that sendoff. That song works if you sell it as a total toss-off fun rock song.... it's such an easy song to trash. Sure it gets weird with the cackling laughter and shit, but every time I read critiques of it I roll my eyes... "... an attack on journalists." Aight, let's simmer down.... Well..it IS my favourite GNR song, lol. Everything I love about the band rolled into one song. Bluesy solos, great riffs, full of attitude and badass vocals. The fact they even made this song shows they were the real deal, it's very "pure" in that aspect. What other band would possibly release a song calling out people by name? It's hilarious and awesome that the biggest band in the world was GNR for some years. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
action Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 1 hour ago, Jw224 said: I don't think that matters. The words mean what they mean and they will obviously be taken the way they are taken, and Axl must've known that when he used them. Also, responding to people rightfully condemning homophobia and racism with "grow some spine" is really, really stupid. it's not homophobia, it's not racism. it's offensive, but that is a lesser "infraction" so to speak. it's only homophobic / racist if it was meant that way. it was not. you can accept that explanation, or not. I accept it. being offensive does not mean you're a homophobe or racist (now that would be stupid), so I stand by my comment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jw224 Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 5 minutes ago, action said: it's not homophobia, it's not racism. it's offensive, but that is a lesser "infraction" so to speak. it's only homophobic / racist if it was meant that way. it was not. you can accept that explanation, or not. I accept it. being offensive does not mean you're a homophobe or racist (now that would be stupid), so I stand by my comment. I don't understand why you're trying to create some separate category, it's offensive because it's homophobia and racism. That's why it's offensive, if it wasn't then it wouldn't be offensive because it wouldn't offend people. It was also clearly (like, very clearly) meant that way in the song so even if that point was valid it would still be wrong. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ninjapie24 Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 3 hours ago, Ant said: I feel like Get In The Ring would have an "old man yells at cloud" vibe nowadays. Bob Who? What magazine? The music of that song still kicks ass, though. It would have been cool live at the time! All of them sharing vocals... and Slash giving that sendoff. That song works if you sell it as a total toss-off fun rock song.... it's such an easy song to trash. Sure it gets weird with the cackling laughter and shit, but every time I read critiques of it I roll my eyes... "... an attack on journalists." Aight, let's simmer down.... I feel if they were to play it for the first time, that section would just be Axl going on a rant about whoever pissed him off recently. Change out the people he calls a fucking pussy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SAU3R Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 They should do Pretty Tied Up instead of Coma every 2nd night, I love Coma but Axl really struggles and Pretty Tied Up is almost equally awesome and far less challenging for him Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fourteenbeers Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 6 hours ago, Tom-Ass said: I don't think Axl and Slash are as concerned or as delusional about this stuff as Duff... They still play Used To Love Her, It's So Easy and such.. Bring on Pretty Tied Up when Izzy shows up for a surprise Encore.. Izzy walks on stage and they play a long ass encore Pretty Tied up Out ta' Get me Dust N' Bones Don't Cry Think About You Patience Paradise City Boom Good list. And sure Axl can sing Pretty tied up.. but only if he wears assless chaps while doing so. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ant Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 (edited) 22 minutes ago, Fourteenbeers said: And sure Axl can sing Pretty tied up.. but only if he wears assless chaps while doing so. Have them illuminated on the stage like MJ's Billie Jean stuff. Slowly unpacks the chaps to roaring applause... Edited October 16, 2019 by Ant 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arnuld Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 19 hours ago, KeyserSoze said: Now that the trend seems to be resurrecting songs from the dead, especially live and from the UYI era, Do you think the band would give this song a go given what it's about and how Izzy describes this chick??? I know its not everyones thing, but given how sexual abuse has pretty much seeped its way into every fraction of society, do you think the band has chosen to steer clear of even thinking about playing this song? It seems like this song flew under the radar when Duff was asked about the bands past lyrics and how they still feel. I mean hell, they do play It's So Easy every single night. Dizzy even plays a watered down version of this song with his cover band Hookers & Blow.. Love Pretty Tied Up. Doubt they will play it again but really wish they would. The Perils or Rock n Roll decadence....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crowebar Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 No reason why they can't play it but it's doubtful imo. Duff probably sjw'd that song and had it banished because it offended someone 😂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnrcane Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 14 hours ago, Voodoochild said: This. And he even say "that's right" knowing it's offensive to use one the racist term. Also, it's not about what someone else's "flexible" interpretation, it's up to the people who are being attacked to decide what it really is. But you don't have to go that far to get that it does incite hate ("us vs. them") when he described those people with incredibly offensive things, like "spread some fucking desease", or "they come to our country and think they'll do as they please". People should stop acting like the offender should have a say on what the offended should feel. Love the rethoric shit used to nullify arguments, calling whoever disagree as "drama queens" and such. It's from a dutch poem or something? Van den vos Reynaerde Interesting description on Wikipedia: Satire about a fox who kills and bullies, and gets away with his deeds. The rest of society isn't much better. The nobility is being portrayed as lazy and often stupid. Clergymen are sexually active. The common population is often violent and cruel. Many women are sexually promiscuous and include prostitutes. However, it should be noted that the song was set when Axl first got to LA in the early 80s. At that time, AIDS was considered to be a "gay disease" so those could be the thoughts of somebody without hating gay people. Money for Nothing used the same slur and that was a huge hit on the radio and MTV. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voodoochild Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 9 minutes ago, Gnrcane said: However, it should be noted that the song was set when Axl first got to LA in the early 80s. At that time, AIDS was considered to be a "gay disease" so those could be the thoughts of somebody without hating gay people. Money for Nothing used the same slur and that was a huge hit on the radio and MTV. The song was released in 1989. It doesnt matter if that was ok in early 80s like the Dire Straits song. It was always homophobic, Axl even had to justify himself back then. And the thing is: it doesnt matter what it was back then at all. The thing being discussed is how it would sit if the band played the song live in 2019. And let's be clear: Im only talking about One in a Million, because somehow some people here are already trying to disquilify the argument like anyone else has exactly the problem with other songs like Pretty Tied Up. Slash, which a lot of fans seems to forget, is half black. Frank is black. TB, which a lot of people here hate, are immigrants and considered by Axl as his family. I'm sure there's tons of gay friends and co-workers in the GNR camp. Nobody in this thread even mentioned this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnrcane Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Voodoochild said: The song was released in 1989. It doesnt matter if that was ok in early 80s like the Dire Straits song. It was always homophobic, Axl even had to justify himself back then. And the thing is: it doesnt matter what it was back then at all. The thing being discussed is how it would sit if the band played the song live in 2019. And let's be clear: Im only talking about One in a Million, because somehow some people here are already trying to disquilify the argument like anyone else has exactly the problem with other songs like Pretty Tied Up. Slash, which a lot of fans seems to forget, is half black. Frank is black. TB, which a lot of people here hate, are immigrants and considered by Axl as his family. I'm sure there's tons of gay friends and co-workers in the GNR camp. Nobody in this thread even mentioned this. I get that and I certainly wouldn't recommend that they play OIAM in concert without some major lyric changes. They didn't play it except in one or two instances like the CBGB back then either. Other songs like PTU are nothing like OIAM from the standpoint of being offensive. I will say that compared to rap songs I hear at football tailgates, OIAM is a song from Sesame Street. Edited October 17, 2019 by Gnrcane Typo 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
action Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 8 hours ago, Jw224 said: I don't understand why you're trying to create some separate category, it's offensive because it's homophobia and racism. That's why it's offensive, if it wasn't then it wouldn't be offensive because it wouldn't offend people. It was also clearly (like, very clearly) meant that way in the song so even if that point was valid it would still be wrong. if you hold a gun in your hand, doesn't mean you're a murderer. the word is like a gun, but it wasn't used to incite hate, it was meant to offend. I'm sorry if you don't understand that. I think a lack of understanding is the source of all the controversy surrounding this song in the first place. Axl has explained the song, and I accept that explanation. the meaning of the song or the word is not racism, nor homophobia. you do know that john lennon and mark knofler used the very same word in their song, yes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zigzagbigbag Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 (edited) Question answered. Edited October 17, 2019 by zigzagbigbag 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangerInThisTown Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 (edited) 5 hours ago, action said: if you hold a gun in your hand, doesn't mean you're a murderer. the word is like a gun, but it wasn't used to incite hate, it was meant to offend. I'm sorry if you don't understand that. I think a lack of understanding is the source of all the controversy surrounding this song in the first place. Axl has explained the song, and I accept that explanation. the meaning of the song or the word is not racism, nor homophobia. you do know that john lennon and mark knofler used the very same word in their song, yes? To add to what you said, the fact that Axl was friends and in a band with a half-black guy in his band at the time let's one conclude right away that Axl writing lyrics with racist intent is totally absurd. It's just people getting very easily offended by words, and Axl was the kind of guy that wanted to push buttons at that time, like GNR as a whole. Edited October 17, 2019 by StrangerInThisTown Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lio Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 19 hours ago, UsedYourIllusion said: I thought the UYI II CD booklet says “Cool ranch dressing”? Guess it doesn’t. Always just thought of it as a mix of food and sex 😂 but it is at the part “it’s days like this that push me over the brink” Booklet says: Quote cool and stressing (pronounced: Kool Ranch Dres'ing) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Cnut Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 I can't see why not, that freaky bondage shit is more socially acceptable now than it ever has been, look at 50 Shades and all that bullshit. And quite frankly its down to interpretation: 'i know this chick she lives down on Melrose, she ain't satisfied without some pain', it don't say whether its feeling or inflicting. 'crack the whip cuz that bitch is just insane', again, open to interpretation but even its worst interpretations ain't so bad that it needs to be avoided playing. Personally I think they should play OIAM, that song is class, possibly my favourite GnR song. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voodoochild Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 7 hours ago, action said: if you hold a gun in your hand, doesn't mean you're a murderer. the word is like a gun, but it wasn't used to incite hate, it was meant to offend. In your opinion, which I assume is not from the POV of any of the groups "offended". The comparison is poor. Is like you put a gun in your hand, shot a bullet aimlessly and then say "well, I didnt want to muder anyone, that wasnt my intention". About Axl's explanation: you seem to forget that he wanted to exclude the song from a Lies re-release. And he, Slash and Duff, didnt include it either on the AFD reissue: https://www.nme.com/news/music/slash-responds-guns-n-roses-cutting-racist-homophobic-track-appetite-one-in-a-million-2367379 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jw224 Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 (edited) 8 hours ago, action said: if you hold a gun in your hand, doesn't mean you're a murderer. the word is like a gun, but it wasn't used to incite hate, it was meant to offend. I'm sorry if you don't understand that. I think a lack of understanding is the source of all the controversy surrounding this song in the first place. Axl has explained the song, and I accept that explanation. the meaning of the song or the word is not racism, nor homophobia. you do know that john lennon and mark knofler used the very same word in their song, yes? I understand perfectly so you don't need to be sorry, what I don't understand is you trying to excuse racism and homophobia as something that is okay by making up some random and nonsensical justification for using racist and homophobic language. Are you expecting me to say it's fine that John Lennon did it or something? I think I am done with this debate as you really are making no sense at this point. Edited October 17, 2019 by Jw224 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rovim Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, Len Cnut said: Personally I think they should play OIAM, that song is class, possibly my favourite GnR song. It's one of my favorites as well but there is no way they're gonna play that tune ever again. I love the song for it's musical qualities, less for what Axl was aiming for lyrically. I don't take offense to it but I think it was done poorly and the "radicals and racists don't point your finger at me" line was like... I think Axl's way of framing and presenting it as more than just an excuse to spread hate which I'm guessing wasn't his intention and that was his way to kinda make that clearer but I can't help but think there were, in fact, racist and homophobic opinions swirling in his brain back then and maybe he thought it was a good idea to use this song as an outlet for all his negative emotions about unfortunate experiences he was a part of. I also believe it was from his point of view after all. Was derived from personal experience. It's problematic I think cause he generalized when what it was really about was some black guys treated him poorly and he had some shitty experiences with his father and one gay guy. It was an under developed thought process and maybe he tried to be honest and make sense of all of it. I don't think he thinks that way anymore but back then he probably did. It shouldn't be played because it was supposed to promote honesty maybe? even when it's an ugly situation but instead it was interpreted as promoting hate and it wasn't all pure and hate free as young Axl thought it was at the time. (just speculation of course who knows what he was thinking) I'm glad he wrote it though cause it's a great tune. Edited October 17, 2019 by Rovim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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