Popular Post Blackstar Posted April 10, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted April 10, 2020 (edited) I first posted this in the CD leaks discussion thread, as it was brought up there, but as it's off topic, I thought it would be better to start a new thread. --------------------------------------------------------------- When the time came to mix the Use Your Illusion albums, the band first worked with Bob Clearmountain, who had an impressive track record. But then, and when Clearmountain had already mixed 21 songs [Rolling Stone, Sept. 9, 1991], the band decided they didn't want to work with him and hired Bill Price, who did the final mix. That was one of the reasons the albums were delayed. I saw that Tom Zutaut mentioned Clearmountain's mixes recently and said that they were great: https://www.facebook.com/tomzutautmvhyundai/videos/1069862146722376 Funny that Tom Zutaut said that. Alan Niven has said that Clearmountain's mixes were very bad and that Tom Zutaut was of the same opinion - and, of course, Niven blamed everything on Axl: Niven: Basically Axl moves into the studio with him, and God knows what that was like for Bob. [...] Mr control freak breathing down the back of your neck. Bob Clearmountain was one of my heroes, but the mixes had no life and vitality. [Classic Rock, June 2011] Niven: Poor fucking Bob. Axl moved into the Record Plant. He ate, slept and shat there. He was there all the time, breathing down Bob’s neck. And finally we’re informed that they’re done. God knows how they ever got through all that stuff with Axl with his myopia. [When I listened to the DAT tapes] my heart just went into my boots. [...] Then we [= Zutaut and Niven] just turned them off. They had no vitality. No punch. They were overworked. There was no spontaneity. There was nothing vital in them whatsoever. [...] Tom and I started to foment a wicked idea. We looked at each other and said, he’s such a fucker to us all, let’s put this record out as it is. And let everybody know that he oversaw the mixes. The idea was so giddy to us we sat there and started laughing until we cried at the prospect of doing it. We were looking each other in the eye going, “Let’s let the fucker swing …” We were so tired of him at that point. [Mick Wall, Last of the Giants, 2016] In another interview (probably the video one with Mitch Lafon in 2013, iirc), Niven said that he destroyed the tapes with Clearmountain's mixes because they were so bad and he didn't want anyone to ever hear them. * Bob Clearmountain, though, said he actually wouldn't get to see Axl for a week. Recounting that experience, Clearmountain cites one major frustration: Axl Rose ”seemed to have a lot on his mind at the time,” and getting the singer to join the rest of the band in the studio — Clearmountain prefers his clients to be heavily involved — was an absolute nightmare. Because Slash and Rose were going through one of their periodic personality clashes at the time, Clearmountain says Slash deliberately stayed away from the studio so as not to ”distract” the singer, and instead worked with him over the phone — ”a very awkward way to work.” And Rose himself? ”You wouldn’t hear from him for a week, and then he’d show up,” . Clearmountain recalls. ”I’d ask if he listened to the last couple of mixes I did, and he’d say, ‘Oh yeah, man, it’s happening.’ And that’d be about it. He basically wasn’t paying attention.” [Entertainment Weekly, August 9, 1991] Also at that time, according to Clearmountain in the same article, Axl didn't want to work with Tom Zutaut and didn't want him in the studio (the fallout was most likely because of the issue with Erin Everly that Tom would talk about later). According to a "source" quoted also in the same Entertainment Weekly article, the band stopped working with Clearmountain because his mixes weren't good: The official comment from the group is that Clearmountain departed due to a scheduling problem — but according to a source close to the band, ”Everybody thought Clearmountain’s mixes sucked. But they didn’t want to be hateful or harmful to him, because he did his very best. * Slash said that the reason they fired Clearmountain was that he had used drum samples. He first said it in 1991, without mentioning Clearmountain's name: Slash: We did work with somebody – I won’t mention his name – that was using samples on the drums and, like, when Axl and I discovered it, we flipped, literally. We were like, “What?” You know, we saw this list, "Guns N’ Roses samples." [MTV, May 25, 1991] And later in his book: Slash: WHEN IT CAME TO GETTING THE ALBUM mixed, we had a decision to make. Thompson and Barbiero, who’d mixed Appetite, were no longer a team. The temperament of the band as we now were didn’t suit them, or their temperament didn’t suit us, I can’t remember which. We decided to hire Bob Clearmountain, a guy whose credentials spoke for themselves: he’d mixed everyone from the Kinks to Bowie to the Stones to Springsteen. We had a lot of material ready for him to start on while Axl continued to work on what wasn’t finished yet. Clearmountain came in and talked endlessly about Q Sound 5.1, a technology that was still in its formative stages. He was really into it, and I remember that he got Axl pretty excited about it, too. That was all great, but I wasn’t having it at all; Q Sound sounded like a wash to me. I didn’t care that Bob insisted that it was the future; to hear it properly required five speakers, and especially back then, in the early 1990s, most people had only two. And if you listened to something mixed in Q Sound through two speakers, it sounded like an indistinct mess. It was one of those much-hyped things that time proves to be nothing but a short-term, bridge technology: much like the minidisc, and the Laserdisc, Q Sound was a weak, impermanent version of what was to come. That said, rather than make a big scene and get the whole band up in arms, which would have resulted in Axl and me arguing the pros and cons of Q Sound until we were blue in the face, I bit my lip and hoped that this would work out. And it did; Clearmountain shot himself in the foot almost immediately: one afternoon we discovered a notepad of his where he’d notated all of the drum samples he planned to mix in over Matt’s drum tracks. I’m not a drummer, so I can’t explain the technical ins and outs, but he’d brought in samples that would change Matt’s sound drastically. We showed it to Matt who had no idea and he wasn’t too pleased at all—and that was the excuse we needed to fire Bob Clearmountain. [Slash's Autobiography, 2007] In another interview from 1999, though, Slash would say that the reason was that he didn't like the way his guitars sounded in Clearmountain's mixes: Slash: In the early days of mixing Use Your Illusion, I definitely did not see eye-to eye with Bob Clearmountain. We just had different ideas about what the guitar was supposed to sound like. And this was Bob Clearmountain! It was nothing about Bob. He was a nice enough guy, but we had different ideas about mixing guitar music. [Home Recording Magazine, January 1999] Edited June 27, 2020 by Blackstar Added question mark in the title as it's possible they're the same Q Sound mixes that have circulated 4 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaskingApathy Posted April 10, 2020 Share Posted April 10, 2020 Wait wait wait wait wait, you're telling me that Tom Zutaut, who signed Motley Crue, GnR, and others, is now a used car salesman?! 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
there is no dana only zool Posted April 10, 2020 Share Posted April 10, 2020 16 minutes ago, MaskingApathy said: Wait wait wait wait wait, you're telling me that Tom Zutaut, who signed Motley Crue, GnR, and others, is now a used car salesman?! I'm in the state of shock as you, right now lol. I hope it's legitimately because he's now... uh... hard to believe I'm saying this but... passionate about selling cars (going from hollywood a&r guy in it's most decadent period, imo). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackstar Posted April 10, 2020 Author Share Posted April 10, 2020 Yeah, I didn't say anything about it, but I was surprised (to say the least) to hear about Tom Zutaut's current occupation, too. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Comstock Posted April 10, 2020 Share Posted April 10, 2020 The first time I saw this, I thought it was fake. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackstar Posted April 10, 2020 Author Share Posted April 10, 2020 It isn't really surprising, though, considering that Tom Zutaut was out of Geffen around 1997 and then tried to work as an independent A&R, at a time when there were major changed in the music industry and many people who worked in the business became unemployed. He has to make a living somehow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Ant Posted April 10, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted April 10, 2020 (edited) she's a 1989 Chrysler Lebaron... the previous owner was Axel Rosé Edited April 10, 2020 by Ant 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
username Posted April 10, 2020 Share Posted April 10, 2020 (edited) Hey Zoot! I'll buy some beat up old piece of junk on the condition that you stack it with unheard GnR demo cd's. But on-topic.... None of this has ever been circulated and possibly doesn't even exist anymore, right? Edited April 10, 2020 by username Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mendez Posted April 10, 2020 Share Posted April 10, 2020 1 hour ago, username said: Hey Zoot! I'll buy some beat up old piece of junk on the condition that you stack it with unheard GnR demo cd's. But on-topic.... None of this has ever been circulated and possibly doesn't even exist anymore, right? IIRC the Q Sound mixes are around in a stereo format, but they sound like low fidelity shit; possibly the transfer is the culprit? Assuming they are the same mixes that Clearmountain did I have them only for the purpose of having them (at least they were labeled as q sound versions) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamillos Posted April 10, 2020 Share Posted April 10, 2020 He sells cars now? Man, he must have had some debauching life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UsedYourIllusion Posted April 10, 2020 Share Posted April 10, 2020 I remember reading about these years ago, maybe they are the CD leaks to the UYI albums, more cut down and raw sounding. Maybe. Although, from the articles it seems like quite the opposite. It seems like Bob just wasn't going in the same direction as the band. Also, who the hell mixed KOHD for days of thunder? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted April 10, 2020 Share Posted April 10, 2020 It's funny how it is only Guns N' Roses who seem to have a problem with these incredibly respected production people, Ezrin and so forth. Bob Clearmountain worked on Tattoo You: enough said! 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackstar Posted April 10, 2020 Author Share Posted April 10, 2020 2 hours ago, username said: But on-topic.... None of this has ever been circulated and possibly doesn't even exist anymore, right? It seems Tom implies that they exist. 1 hour ago, Mendez said: IIRC the Q Sound mixes are around in a stereo format, but they sound like low fidelity shit; possibly the transfer is the culprit? Assuming they are the same mixes that Clearmountain did I have them only for the purpose of having them (at least they were labeled as q sound versions) I think these are from the same source as the normal rough mixes that have been around. The Clearmountain mixes are known to not have circulated, although these rough mixes and Q mixes are from when he worked with the band. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UsedYourIllusion Posted April 10, 2020 Share Posted April 10, 2020 1 hour ago, DieselDaisy said: It's funny how it is only Guns N' Roses who seem to have a problem with these incredibly respected production people, Ezrin and so forth. Bob Clearmountain worked on Tattoo You: enough said! I'm not even sure Rick Rubin could be productive with this band. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sydney Fan Posted April 10, 2020 Share Posted April 10, 2020 2 hours ago, Blackstar said: It seems Tom implies that they exist. I think these are from the same source as the normal rough mixes that have been around. The Clearmountain mixes are known to not have circulated, although these rough mixes and Q mixes are from when he worked with the band. So when slash has mentioned in some interviews that he has the mixes before in a "stripped down version" would these straight from the recording console, or maybe bill prices mixes?. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocknroll41 Posted April 10, 2020 Share Posted April 10, 2020 Is the mix of KOHD on Days of Thunder from these mixing sessions? Cause if so, I totally get where Niven and Zoot are coming from. That mix was horrible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted April 10, 2020 Share Posted April 10, 2020 1 hour ago, UsedYourIllusion said: I'm not even sure Rick Rubin could be productive with this band. Guns could have George Martin or Jimmy Miller producing for them, and they'd complain and find him an ''arsehole'' or some Rosey nonsense. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackstar Posted April 10, 2020 Author Share Posted April 10, 2020 15 minutes ago, Sydney Fan said: So when slash has mentioned in some interviews that he has the mixes before in a "stripped down version" would these straight from the recording console, or maybe bill prices mixes?. I think those were earlier rough mixes. Not Bill Price's. 6 minutes ago, rocknroll41 said: Is the mix of KOHD on Days of Thunder from these mixing sessions? Cause if so, I totally get where Niven and Zoot are coming from. That mix was horrible. No, that was earlier, at around the same time Civil War was recorded (a little later). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocknroll41 Posted April 10, 2020 Share Posted April 10, 2020 5 minutes ago, Blackstar said: I think those were earlier rough mixes. Not Bill Price's. No, that was earlier, at around the same time Civil War was recorded (a little later). So were Civil War and the DoT version of KOHD still mixed by the same duo that mixed AFD then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackstar Posted April 10, 2020 Author Share Posted April 10, 2020 4 minutes ago, rocknroll41 said: So were Civil War and the DoT version of KOHD still mixed by the same duo that mixed AFD then? No, I don't think so. They weren't involved in anything after AFD. Lies (the "new" songs) was mixed by the band and Clink, I assume. Probably they mixed Civil War and KOHD themselves. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UsedYourIllusion Posted April 10, 2020 Share Posted April 10, 2020 15 minutes ago, Blackstar said: No, I don't think so. They weren't involved in anything after AFD. Lies (the "new" songs) was mixed by the band and Clink, I assume. Probably they mixed Civil War and KOHD themselves. Does that suggest that the compilation that Civil War is on might have a different mix than UYI II? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocknroll41 Posted April 10, 2020 Share Posted April 10, 2020 4 minutes ago, UsedYourIllusion said: Does that suggest that the compilation that Civil War is on might have a different mix than UYI II? No I think they kept Civil War exactly the same, for whatever reason. Guess they just figured it was good enough, whereas with KOHD they probably saw an opportunity to make it sound better. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackstar Posted April 10, 2020 Author Share Posted April 10, 2020 5 minutes ago, UsedYourIllusion said: Does that suggest that the compilation that Civil War is on might have a different mix than UYI II? They sound the same to me, but I don't have a trained ear to distinguish slight differences in the mix. I guess they kept the original mix, so it wasn't remixed by Bill Price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soon Posted April 10, 2020 Share Posted April 10, 2020 (edited) 9 hours ago, Gordon Comstock said: The first time I saw this, I thought it was fake. Axl has that same jacket! HOB 2001 Edited April 10, 2020 by soon 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
axlvai Posted April 10, 2020 Share Posted April 10, 2020 I want to hear that 5.1 Q-Sound shit. Maybe too futurist in that time... but very approchable in this decade. I had some gnr Q-Sound demos and sounds like shit, maybe was the transfer. I dont really know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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