Did we back the wrong horse in our support/belief of Axl over Slash?

[Towelie]

The more music Slash puts out, the more I think GNR fans collectively backed the wrong horse in obsessing over Axl from the late 90s to present day. It is beyond obvious to me in 2021 that Axl was luckier to have Slash than the other way round. 

You may not love everything Slash puts out, but his body of work combining the Snakepit albums, VR albums, SMKC and his 2010 offering really puts Axl to shame. 

In the six years since the reunion Axl has released just two songs, both more than 20 years old - one of which we've known for two decades, meanwhile Slash is on his second album with his real band. 

Axl really hasn't earnt his stripes to be taken seriously as an artist in his own right, unlike Slash. 

Axl Rose appears not to have a creative bone in his body and is coasting on a legacy which he was given way too much credit for over the years. His lack of productivity speaks volumes about who the true driving force was in original Guns, and I really believe that Axl was incredibly fortunate to have been in a band with Slash and Izzy. 

It really is time for the fanbase to stop looking at Axl through rose-tinted glasses. A great singer/frontman in his prime? Absolutely. But a serious artist/songwriter/musician he is not.

Edited December 6, 2021 by Towelie

[SoulMonster]

What do you mean with backing the wrong horse? You like what you like. I happen to like Chinese Democracy more than Slash's combined output since 1995. No big deal, we like what we like. 

[Towelie]

4 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

What do you mean with backing the wrong horse? You like what you like. I happen to like Chinese Democracy more than Slash's combined output since 1995. No big deal, we like what we like. 

I love Chinese Democracy too. But it's one album. One album in 28 years. Slash may not get it right every time, but he's prolific and regularly puts out decent work. And there's no denying that Slash's solo stuff sounds way more like GNR than CD ever did. 

 

[Rovim]

backed the wrong horse? do you think every fan took sides or something? it's a rock n' roll band and shit happened. Axl has his issues and Slash made mistakes, too. They made and released some great music, I try to enjoy what we got instead of thinking of what could have been.

Edited December 6, 2021 by Rovim

[Towelie]

1 minute ago, Rovim said:

backed the wrong horse? do you think every fan took sides or something? it's a rock n' roll band and shit happened. Axl has his issues and Slash made mistakes, too. They made and released some great music, I try to enjoy what we got instead of thinking of what could have been.

It is undeniable that many GNR fans backed Axl over Slash. Many cited Axl as the real artist responsible for elevating Guns above the other hair metal bands of the day. Axl was fawned over time and time again, but does he really deserve this kind of praise over someone like Slash? 

Time has shown that the emperor truly has no clothes.

[SoulMonster]

11 minutes ago, Towelie said:

I love Chinese Democracy too. But it's one album. One album in 28 years. Slash may not get it right every time, but he's prolific and regularly puts out decent work. And there's no denying that Slash's solo stuff sounds way more like GNR than CD ever did. 

No one can deny that Slash is prolific. But that doesn't matter much if you don't particularly care for his output. Not saying it is bad, there are definitely a few gems here and there, just that on average it is bland and although his music may resemble Appetite the most, it comes far short in quality and desperately lack the guitar interplay with Izzy and Axl's vocals. 

Edited December 6, 2021 by SoulMonster

[Towelie]

6 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

No one can't deny that Slash is prolific. But that doesn't matter much if you don't particularly care for his output. Not saying it is bad, there are definitely a few gems here and there, just that on average it is bland and although his music may resemble Appetite the most, it comes far short in quality and desperately lack the guitar interplay with Izzy and Axl's vocals. 

Well, it's a lot harder to put out vital work when you're as prolific as Slash. I personally disagree that Slash's solo stuff is bland, but each to their own. But it doesn't erase my point, that Axl was undeserving of the acclaim he's been afforded by the fanbase over the years.

How vital would Axl's work be if he'd released an album every 2-3 years since 1993? We'll never know, because Axl simply never had it in him to create music on that level. Slash did though. 

Edited December 6, 2021 by Towelie

[jamillos]

We won't know how much new stuff has Axl written until new albums start getting released. We know that there was a second part of CD planned, mainly consisting of stuff from 99-01. Then he toured with NuGuns, so probably not many new things were created then. With the reunion, the never ending touring of the greatest hits started again, so similarly, not much creative output can be expected to have been made during these years. Which is not to say that we know he's written nothing at all. But we can surmise that the new record will largely derive from what was created in the past. And even if there are new songs - which I hope so - we don't know whether he'll just use a few of them and spare the rest for potential future albums, to sort of release it gradually. In short, we know nothing, and the first "comeback" album may not tell us much more in this sense. 

[SoulMonster]

Just now, Towelie said:

 But it doesn't erase my point, that Axl was undeserving of ths acclaim he's been afforded by the fanbase.

Isn't that an entirely subjective thing? If you like what Axl has done, isn't he then deserving of acclaim? I might not understand the point you are making. 

[Rovim]

12 minutes ago, Towelie said:

It is undeniable that many GNR fans backed Axl over Slash. Many cited Axl as the real artist responsible for elevating Guns above the other hair metal bands of the day. Axl was fawned over time and time again, but does he really deserve this kind of praise over someone like Slash? 

Time has shown that the emperor truly has no clothes.

I think Gn'R is one of those bands where the chemistry between the songwriting members was needed in order to achieve the quality of the classic albums. Axl had an album ready to go in 1999. It took him 2 years to produce a completed version of Chinese but for whatever reason didn't release it. It seems that more control did not translate into a productive career. It happens. Slash has repeatedly released derivative material with flashes of brilliance and it seems his approach does not produce music at the same quality as Gn'R on his own and his top priority is playing live anyway.

they worked better together imo. Maybe no one is at fault here.

Edited December 6, 2021 by Rovim

[SilverMachine]

Slash is my guitar hero, but I don't think I've liked one track that he's put out outside of GnR, including collaborations.

His guitar work on a lot that stuff is exemplary, but the songs just leave me cold, and so much of it has been straight up uncool. Much of that has been down to his choice of collaborators.

Axl has aimed higher since the split, and while nine times out of ten he's missed the mark, musically the scant amount he has put out has at least hit some highs and has to my ear been more interesting and more expansive.

The old adage rings true with GnR - they're very much a sum of their parts. They all needed each other more than they realised.

 

Edited December 6, 2021 by SilverMachine

[janrichmond]

1 hour ago, SilverMachine said:

The old adage rings true with GnR - they're very much a sum of their parts. They all needed each other more than they realised.

My thinking is that Axl needs Slash way more than Slash needs Axl. If Slash wasn't there GnR would not fill stadiums. Slash has continued to release music since leaving GnR in '94 and tour those albums. Axl hasn't.

Axl's vocals are what made me a fan back in the 80's but Slash is what drew me back when they reunited. 

[jamillos]

Exactly. Plus, if Slash left again, GN'R would be finished, even if Duff stayed.

[KURT19]

My money was always on Slash.

[Jw224]

Seems like a very subjective point to make. I personally find most of Slash's output boring and wouldn't listen to it. The one album Axl has put out is much better in my opinion. I also don't think the amount of an artist's output is really a reflection of their skill or merit as an artist (not saying Slash isn't skilled, just making the point generally in relation to the original post's point). Obviously if someone is into Slash more then they will have a different opinion. It seems like maybe you're questioning your own beliefs rather than asking a general question of the community.

Edited December 6, 2021 by Jw224

[janrichmond]

22 minutes ago, Jw224 said:

Seems like a very subjective point to make. I personally find most of Slash's output boring and wouldn't listen to it. The one album Axl has put out is much better in my opinion. I also don't think an artist's output is really a reflection of their skill or merit as an artist (not saying Slash isn't skilled, just making the point generally in relation to the original post's point). Obviously if someone is into Slash more then they will have a different opinion. It seems like maybe you're questioning your own beliefs rather than asking a general question of the community.

Yes, it's all subjective. We have the opposite opinions on CD Vs Slash music, do you think people would like CD more if Slash was on it? I don't 

[Towelie]

1 hour ago, Jw224 said:

Seems like a very subjective point to make. I personally find most of Slash's output boring and wouldn't listen to it. The one album Axl has put out is much better in my opinion. I also don't think an artist's output is really a reflection of their skill or merit as an artist (not saying Slash isn't skilled, just making the point generally in relation to the original post's point). Obviously if someone is into Slash more then they will have a different opinion. It seems like maybe you're questioning your own beliefs rather than asking a general question of the community.

Well, how else can you measure an artists skill if not through their output?

 

 

 

[MattyIce3924]

39 minutes ago, janrichmond said:

Yes, it's all subjective. We have the opposite opinions on CD Vs Slash music, do you think people would like CD more if Slash was on it? I don't 

I think CD would have sounded like a completely different record with Slash playing on it, given his creative input was listened to. 

[Jw224]

7 minutes ago, Towelie said:

Well, how else can you measure an artists skill if not through their output?

 

 

 

Sorry, I meant amount of output.

[Lethalis]

Guns N Roses was a sum of all the original members. They all wrote music together.

Slash, Duff and Izzy have released a ton of music outside of GnR. Imagine if they worked together all these years. I don't know what's up with Axl, nobody knows. He can write some great songs, but he needs the right people to collaborate with.

Unfortunately Axl's voice is shit nowadays (Mickey). Too bad.

On the other hand, Slash releasing music with Myles Kennedy is also a bit generic. I liked Myles more in Alter Bridge.

Anyways, whatever. I'm not waiting for new music or anything like that anymore. If something gets released, I listen to it... but I don't get my hopes up or get excited about it that much anymore. The new Slash stuff isn't bad, but I don't think it's great either. Yet Slash will always be one of the greatest guitar players in the world and I love him for that. Lucky for me I still enjoy the old stuff 

[axlslash]

7 hours ago, Towelie said:

The more music Slash puts out, the more I think GNR fans collectively backed the wrong horse in obsessing over Axl from the late 90s to present day. It is beyond obvious to me in 2021 that Axl was luckier to have Slash than the other way round. 

You may not love everything Slash puts out, but his body of work combining the Snakepit albums, VR albums, SMKC and his 2010 offering really puts Axl to shame. 

In the six years since the reunion Axl has released just two songs, both more than 20 years old - one of which we've known for two decades, meanwhile Slash is on his second album with his real band. 

Axl really hasn't earnt his stripes to be taken seriously as an artist in his own right, unlike Slash. 

Axl Rose appears not to have a creative bone in his body and is coasting on a legacy which he was given way too much credit for over the years. His lack of productivity speaks volumes about who the true driving force was in original Guns, and I really believe that Axl was incredibly fortunate to have been in a band with Slash and Izzy. 

It really is time for the fanbase to stop looking at Axl through rose-tinted glasses. A great singer/frontman in his prime? Absolutely. But a serious artist/songwriter/musician he is not.

I think I fucked up. Was I supposed to back one horse? I kept listening to GNR, but also loved Snakepit, VR, SMKCC, the Slash solo album, Gilby, Izzy and the Juju Hounds...... I always thought the various feuds were stupid and kept supporting everybody because I liked all of their music.

[Rovim]

1 minute ago, axlslash said:

I think I fucked up. Was I supposed to back one horse? I kept listening to GNR, but also loved Snakepit, VR, SMKCC, the Slash solo album, Gilby, Izzy and the Juju Hounds...... I always thought the various feuds were stupid and kept supporting everybody because I liked all of their music.

one horse per person is the norm. You betrayed Axl, Slash, Gilby, and Izzy by not deciding on a winner. Good job, buddy.

[Martin Riggs]

5 hours ago, SilverMachine said:

Slash is my guitar hero, but I don't think I've liked one track that he's put out outside of GnR, including collaborations.

 

Ha I can’t take you seriously after a comment like that. 

Regarding Axl, a lot of people bought into the idea of this tortured reclusive  genius in hiding creating a masterpiece that was marketed by the press, record company and himself 20 years ago. Unfortunately the reality had a lot less mystique. He was a guy who blew up everything he had going for him and was luckily left with one huge asset. The name Guns N Roses. So he paid a bunch of dudes a lot of $$ to sit around and come up with music ideas and he would eventually cut and paste the ideas to his liking. The problem was he knew something wasn’t quite right (probably because he had been a part of the genuine real deal years before) and subsequently never had the balls to properly release or promote what he had been tinkering with all those years. So we got what we got. Not bad but certainly not worth kneecapping one of the legendary bands of rock n roll only to eventually reunite with the guy who you claimed to hate for so many years for the $$$$ and then be creatively bankrupt to the point that you don’t even try anymore. 

[allwaystired]

Just now, Rovim said:

backed the wrong horse? do you think every fan took sides or something? it's a rock n' roll band and shit happened. Axl has his issues and Slash made mistakes, too. They made and released some great music, I try to enjoy what we got instead of thinking of what could have been.

You know, to my shame, I think I did. I certainly wrote off Velvet Revolver quite a lot and didn't bother to go and see them when I had the chance, which I now regret. 

I'd still take just one track off CD over everything VR did, but I do feel that I let the whole 'they're just wanting to rehash ancient rock stuff while Axl is the creative, experimental and forward thinking one' thing influence my opinions. 

Sad to admit that really! 

 

[Martin Riggs]

34 minutes ago, axlslash said:

I think I fucked up. Was I supposed to back one horse? I kept listening to GNR, but also loved Snakepit, VR, SMKCC, the Slash solo album, Gilby, Izzy and the Juju Hounds...... I always thought the various feuds were stupid and kept supporting everybody because I liked all of their music.