Covid-19 Thread

[action]

9 minutes ago, Oldest Goat said:

Unless I'm mistaken and I'm certain I'm not; this atomisation phenomenon does not equate to "100% of any and all decisions made by/within mass groups being wrong."

atomisation is very real.

it is the confusion you feel, when everything around you evolves; iphones, subscription services, cancel culture, climate change, war in ukraine, fear of a virus, ridiculous gas prices, the traditional family values being deconstructed; children not having a warm home, divorces, children being dumped in youth camps so the parents can go on a weekend, not knowing who your neighbour is, egoism, toxic culture at work,...

the feeling of being a total nobody, the feeling that your individualities are of no value whatsoever; you're a number, you're a spec in a grey mass, you need to conform to grey uniformity, and you will be punished if you dont.

THIS climate, is what is called atomisation of the individual. It are the perfect conditions for autoritarian societies. People have learned to set aside their individual needs, and blindly follow the rule of the leader. China is the perfect current example; and it all starts with it's huge population. China has so many people, that individualities can not be tolerated. Imagine 1.4 BILLION people all do as they please; the country would not be able to take it. Totalitarism is a way of containing the chaos; it begins to show signs of an ant colony (ant colonies can contain up to 2 million members, and you see different ants receiving fixed positions and tasks; without them the colony would not survive)

Edited January 11, 2023 by action

[Rovim]

56 minutes ago, Oldest Goat said:

Btw here's why the post by@dontdamnmeuyi2015

is objectively stupid:

A) Black Americans, even the likes of JayZ (lmfao), do not have the means to save Africa.

B) It's incredibly stupid and ignorant to the point of bordering on racist to suggest that Black Americans are actually just Africans when it comes down to it and they should feel obligated to save Africa; who betrayed them selling them to the slavers at that time and also happen to often have a surprising general dislike/disapproving attitude towards Black Americans.

I believe Jay Z could have saved many tribes in Africa if his life was less problematic. 

[action]

reports all over the place, of excess death rates (of up to 20%) all across the world, across all ages.

they blame it on air pullution, the flu, stress, our luxury lifestyle, ageing population and other BS lies.

they have invented new diseases: "sudden adult death syndrome", "happy heart attacks".

The amount of excess deaths (which are not covid related) is fastly approaching the number of total combined covid deaths.

I'm not making conclusions (or rather, I do make conclusions, but I figure most of you can't handle them so I wont post them), you make your own conclusions. Just recycling what mainstream media is reporting these days.

[SoulMonster]

24 minutes ago, action said:

reports all over the place, of excess death rates (of up to 20%) all across the world, across all ages.

they blame it on air pullution, the flu, stress, our luxury lifestyle, ageing population and other BS lies.

they have invented new diseases: "sudden adult death syndrome", "happy heart attacks".

The amount of excess deaths (which are not covid related) is fastly approaching the number of total combined covid deaths.

I'm not making conclusions (or rather, I do make conclusions, but I figure most of you can't handle them so I wont post them), you make your own conclusions. Just recycling what mainstream media is reporting these days.

What hyperbole! 

Here's from the UK: Excess deaths in 2022 among worst in 50 years - BBC News  The leading explanation, for the UK, is said to be "the wider crisis in the NHS."

And more from the UK: Extra deaths in 2022 close to highest level in 70 years - how much are NHS failings to blame? | UK News | Sky News Again, clearly problems with the NHS. They mention having to wait for ambulance for more than an hour compared to the 18 minute expected reaction time (or something to that effect). 

Here's from Switzerland: Excess mortality in Switzerland remains exceptionally high in 2022: Study (aa.com.tr) Only affects old people. The conclusion here is long-term effects from Covid-19.

Here's from Australia: Thousands more Australians died in 2022 than expected. COVID was behind the majority of them (theconversation.com) Again, Covid-19 is the culprit.

Here's Norway: Norway: 7 per cent more deaths than expected this year – due to Covid (sciencenorway.no) Again, Covid-19.

I can't see that any of these articles mention "sudden adult death syndrome" or "happy heart attacks", nor do they point to "air pollution, stress, our luxury lifestyle" as the explanation. Maybe your "mainstream media" is different from mine? Finally, they also counter your claim that it is "across all ages", although for Europe as a whole, it does cover all ages (see MOMO). 

As for your claim that "the amount of excess deaths (which are not covid related" is fastly approaching the number of combined covid deaths", I can find no evidence for that in any of the articles I posted and it sounds extremely far fetched. Can you link the source for this claim?

The overall conclusion is that most of these deaths -- the UK aside which goes through a particularly tough period now financially -- is caused by long-term effects of Covid-19. This is the conclusion of actual experts in the field, with well-functioning minds and careers within epidemiology. If I would want the moron's conclusion, on the other hand, I would certainly come back here and ask you.

[action]

"This is the conclusion of actual experts in the field"

=> nobody buys that crap anymore.

[action]

corona has given many scientists / experts a taste of power.

all these governments had official appointed scientists as spokesmen. they advised the government, on issues as lockdowns and QR codes, and the elected governments listened and merely executed the advice of the scientists.

a government led, not by democratically elected individuals, but by "experts" is called a technocracy. In a technocracy, there is no democracy. The experts can not be questioned, because they always refer back to science. When they refer to science, it is books closed for the common people.

the scary part is, that many people thought that a technocracy was preferrable over a true democracy. And look where it has led us. Massive economic damage, and a worldwide, age wide excess in death rates.

[action]

on the one hand, society has its mouth full of diversity and tolerance.

on the other hand, different opinions about corona are censored and called moronic.

on the one hand, we were all fighting together against corona, solidarity and getting vaccinated for other and all that crap

on the other hand, people were forbidden to get closer than 1,5 meter from each other, were forbidden to visit their dying relatives, were refused medical help when they were not vaccinated (I know this from first hand experience)

In short, corona has exposed the deep evil nature and hypocricy of the vast majority of people, but I am glad I went through this. It made me make a huge sweep of people I want nothing to do with anymore, people I considered friends in real life (online doesnt count) that became enemies and scumbags

And now, with these excess death rates, the following phase is set in motion. People don't know where to look or who to trust anymore, but I dont care. I only ever trusted my own instincts, and those have never betrayed me

Edited January 13, 2023 by action

[dontdamnmeuyi2015]

I've always known that most people suck. This is why there are infections and why our planet is so fucked up.

I have no faith in humanity at all and that includes myself.

[Sweersa]

On 1/8/2023 at 2:32 PM, dontdamnmeuyi2015 said:

Africa is a mess and since this continent has nothing the world needs it won't get any help from America or the rest of the world.

they still have slavery and tyrants that lead many of the countries. One big mess.

What I would like to know is why no African Americans go to help them? I never hear of Jay Z or any other so called African Americans going to give money for aid or help get those poor souls out of there. One big joke!

Bono has done more for Africa then any one else. And oh and Madonna adopted a kid from there too. 

This continent has suffered for centuries and will continue to do so. Very sad.

I believe Germany had planned to industrialize or otherwise modernize the African continent. But these plans/actions were halted when they lost the second world war. 

[janrichmond]

11 hours ago, action said:

they have invented new diseases: "sudden adult death syndrome",

this has been around long before Covid

[Dazey]

17 hours ago, SoulMonster said:

What hyperbole! 

Here's from the UK: Excess deaths in 2022 among worst in 50 years - BBC News  The leading explanation, for the UK, is said to be "the wider crisis in the NHS."

And more from the UK: Extra deaths in 2022 close to highest level in 70 years - how much are NHS failings to blame? | UK News | Sky News Again, clearly problems with the NHS. They mention having to wait for ambulance for more than an hour compared to the 18 minute expected reaction time (or something to that effect). 

Here's from Switzerland: Excess mortality in Switzerland remains exceptionally high in 2022: Study (aa.com.tr) Only affects old people. The conclusion here is long-term effects from Covid-19.

Here's from Australia: Thousands more Australians died in 2022 than expected. COVID was behind the majority of them (theconversation.com) Again, Covid-19 is the culprit.

Here's Norway: Norway: 7 per cent more deaths than expected this year – due to Covid (sciencenorway.no) Again, Covid-19.

I can't see that any of these articles mention "sudden adult death syndrome" or "happy heart attacks", nor do they point to "air pollution, stress, our luxury lifestyle" as the explanation. Maybe your "mainstream media" is different from mine? Finally, they also counter your claim that it is "across all ages", although for Europe as a whole, it does cover all ages (see MOMO). 

As for your claim that "the amount of excess deaths (which are not covid related" is fastly approaching the number of combined covid deaths", I can find no evidence for that in any of the articles I posted and it sounds extremely far fetched. Can you link the source for this claim?

The overall conclusion is that most of these deaths -- the UK aside which goes through a particularly tough period now financially -- is caused by long-term effects of Covid-19. This is the conclusion of actual experts in the field, with well-functioning minds and careers within epidemiology. If I would want the moron's conclusion, on the other hand, I would certainly come back here and ask you.

Our healthcare system is in the toilet due to 12 years of real terms pay cuts for Drs and nurses resulting in them leaving in their droves.

This coupled with a recruitment crisis in part caused by Brexit is resulting in massive staff shortages across the board. I mean who would have thought that sending thousands of EU staff home and paying shit wages to those that remained would lead to a staffing crisis eh? 😂

The issue with ambulances is that we don’t have the hospital staff or beds to admit patients so one ambulance crew can often be sitting with a patient in the parking lot for hours thus making it impossible for them to respond to any other calls. 

But yeah “ItZ tEh VacCInEs” 😂

[SoulMonster]

6 minutes ago, Dazey said:

Our healthcare system is in the toilet due to 12 years of real terms pay cuts for Drs and nurses resulting in them leaving in their droves.

This coupled with a recruitment crisis in part caused by Brexit is resulting in massive staff shortages across the board. I mean who would have thought that sending thousands of EU staff home and paying shit wages to those that remained would lead to a staffing crisis eh? 😂

The issue with ambulances is that we don’t have the hospital staff or beds to admit patients so one ambulance crew can often be sitting with a patient in the parking lot for hours thus making it impossible for them to respond to any other calls. 

But yeah “ItZ tEh VacCInEs” 😂

It's really terrible. Every now and then there are articles in the newspaper about how bad things have got over at your neck of the woods. This brewer I know in Manchester had to close down. Terrible stuff.  

Inflation is high here, too, and salaries can't keep up. Lots of small business have had to shut down because of high electricity prices. But what can you do? You just have to adjust to having to do with less. Thankfully, our health system still functions as it should. 

 

[action]

 

sure, the crisis in the NHS is to blame. Is this a mental self-protection mechanism?

Edited January 14, 2023 by action

[SoulMonster]

1 hour ago, action said:

 

sure, the crisis in the NHS is to blame. Is this a mental self-protection mechanism?

Is this an attempt at arguing a point or is this just you repeating your claim while posting a table that doesn't in any way actually prove your point? 

And while we are at it, why don't you actually provide evidence for any of your previous claims, like"the amount of excess deaths (which are not covid related" is fastly approaching the number of combined covid deaths"? Or that mainstream media have all these crazy theories for the excess death in 2022? You know, I googled news stories on "excess deaths" and posted the first hits for various countries, and none of them supported your claims. 

It's actually funny how a guy like you who claim not to follow the news, can repeatedly be mistaken about what is actually in the news. Maybe try picking up a credible newspaper and learn something?

It's also funny how you at first, when you were new here, actually tried to argue your opinions, but when it turned out you couldn't really do that and you were repeatedly revealed to be wrong about more or less everything, you changed your persona to just be a troll who slings out claims and then disregards any questions about sources and evidence. What sort of reward do you get from acting like such a fool? I mean, something must motivate you into spending hours deliberately spreading false information and hilarious opinions/conclusions on an obscure message board for a rock band, while appearing like a dribbling moron while doing it. I just don't get what is in it for you? Are people at those other forums laughing from your behaviour and you -- bless your little brain -- think they are laughing with you and not at you? Is that it? Some weird attempt at finally fitting in somewhere so you do these things in a ridiculous attempt at finding a belonging, a desperate attempt at impressing your peers? Did they challenge you to come back here and behave like this? Maybe they hoped you would just leave their forums.

[EvanG]

That’s his shtick and has been for a long time. He posts total nonsense, then someone provides evidence and debunks everything he says, and then he either ignores it, because he can’t argue it anymore, or he makes a straw man to try and change the argument. It has become so predictable, but he gets attention and that’s exactly what he wants, so he keeps doing it and coming back for more.

Edited January 14, 2023 by EvanG

[action]

the dutch christian-democratic party (CDA), member of the dutch government, has evaluated (with help of scientific experts) their covid policy and has concluded that it was too technocratic, too focused on numbers and losing track of human impact, social exclusion and social impact of the corona measures.

finally, after two years, there is some sense seeping back to the higher political echelons.

Hugo Dejonghe says: "numbers crush people"

Stuff that I have been saying for years

[SoulMonster]

14 minutes ago, action said:

massive excess deaths, mainstream media is completely silent

 

That's hilarious. A few posts back you claimed that mainstream media was full of reports of excess deaths. Now you claim they won't report about it. Classic action., classic.

[action]

6 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

That's hilarious. A few posts back you claimed that mainstream media was full of reports of excess deaths. 

another lie

"reports all over the place" is what I said, not "mainstream media"

also, how curious, to see you're in a laughing mood, with all those people dying

do you see me laughing?

[SoulMonster]

4 minutes ago, action said:

another lie

"reports all over the place" is what I said, not "mainstream media"

also, how curious, to see you're in a laughing mood, with all those people dying

do you see me laughing?

Ehem, "Just recycling what mainstream media is reporting these days" 

[action]

5 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

Ehem, "Just recycling what mainstream media is reporting these days" 

I've not time for this

have put you on ignore

[SoulMonster]

8 minutes ago, action said:

I've not time for this

have put you on ignore

I don't think a lack of time is your biggest problem 

[downzy]

Discussion of the topic is fine. 

Posting nothing but nonsense videos that promotes garbage information is not.  This forum will not be used to promote misinformation about a serious matter.

Anyone who has an issue with this can post elsewhere or get Elon to offer me far more money than the forum is worth to buy it. 

[dontdamnmeuyi2015]

Sometime in May President Biden will declare the end of the covid pandemic.  Well, I'm convinced.  

[Sisyphus]

On 1/8/2023 at 1:53 PM, SoulMonster said:

Again, if I remember correctly, your argument was that the governments used the pandemic to impose restrictions they had no intention to lift when the pandemic was over. You were wrong. Except for China, it seems like most if not all countries have lessened restrictions as a result of people becoming vaccinated. Like I said they would. 

And it is because people have been vaccinated, or been offered to get vaccinated, that "the thing has run its course". Granted, media would likely have written less about it regardless because they do tire of subjects after a while, and it hasn't really "run its course" from an epidemiological perspective since people keep dying from it (although here in Norway only the very weak/old). 

The "experimental potion" is not experimental since it went through rigorous testing before (emergency) approval was granted. You cannot simply keep lying about this and hope reality changes to reflect your opinion. That's not how the world works. You don't have that power. 

As for whether the vaccines had anything to do with whether the disease run its course or not: If you by "run its course" mean that countries came to a point where it was little reason to impose restrictions because people had the offer to get protected through inoculation, then yes, of course the vaccines were the result of that. We could have got to that point without vaccines, too, but then more people would have died and it might have taken longer. 

As for what country "won" (as if this was a competition): That's impossible to say unless we agree on the criteria to use. If we just look at number of Covid-19 related deaths per capita, then I am sure Sweden didn't "win". Besides, you cannot compare countries like this because every country had a different situation, had their own peculiar circumstances. Countries with large cities would logically do less well because social distancing is harder; countries where people fear/distrust governments would logically do less well because it would be harder to get people to get inoculated; etc etc. This is way too complicated for simplistic explanations and comparisons.

The restrictions have been lifted for the most part but the blueprint has been worked out in full detail. 

We're obviously not going to see it eye to eye. But it continues to amaze how you disregard the consequences these past events have had on people in every possible aspect. 

For you it's all about the number of deaths and vaccination rates. And you take every percentage in regards to deaths, "preventable" deaths, and vaccine efficiency at vace value as long as you deem the source credible. But the only credible sources in your eyes are the institutions and private corporations that have been running the show and profited the most from the whole endeavor. 

The percentages in regards to vaccine protection (meaning transmission, chance of developing severe symptoms, duration of protection, efficiency of boosters, etc.) have VARIED greatly. We have been served a monumental amount of different calculations by differenent research facilites as to how effective this potion really is. There are even jokes floating around the internet how the official narrative in regards to level of protection of vaccines changed from one week to another. I'm just calling it like it is.

But if the vaccine is indeed the "saviour", shouldn't countries with lower vaccine rates experience more urges? As early as mid 2021 Forbes reported that four of the five most vaccinated countries are experiencing surges. In my country less than 60% of people are fully vaccinated and covid hasn't been a thing for a while now. No complants in regards to hospitals, no apocalypse whatsoever. And yet China with their 90%+ vaccination rate is facing surges. And China is not an isolated case.

I believe the total lockdowns were a huge mistake (China has gone to extremes and it is backfiring) and the vaccine is just partly (and I'm being generous here) effective.

For the record, I don't think the vaccines didn't do any good. I don't think that vaccines are poison, a tracking device or a plot to murder me in the long run. I don't!

What I do believe though, it that vaccine protection has been overstated and that the vaccine strategy should target vulnerable groups exclusively instead of trying to intimidate the entire population and forcing people to get vaccinated out of fear of losing their freedom, jobs and livelihood.

Peace out.

Edited March 6, 2023 by Sisyphus

[SoulMonster]

46 minutes ago, Sisyphus said:

The restrictions have been lifted for the most part but the blueprint has been worked out in full detail. 

We're obviously not going to see it eye to eye. But it continues to amaze how you disregard the consequences these past events have had on people in every possible aspect. 

For you it's all about the number of deaths and vaccination rates. And you take every percentage in regards to deaths, "preventable" deaths, and vaccine efficiency at vace value as long as you deem the source credible. But the only credible sources in your eyes are the institutions and private corporations that have been running the show and profited the most from the whole endeavor. 

The percentages in regards to vaccine protection (meaning transmission, chance of developing severe symptoms, duration of protection, efficiency of boosters, etc.) have VARIED greatly. We have been served a monumental amount of different calculations by differenent research facilites as to how effective this potion really is. There are even jokes floating around the internet how the official narrative in regards to level of protection of vaccines changed from one week to another. I'm just calling it like it is.

But if the vaccine is indeed the "saviour", shouldn't countries with lower vaccine rates experience more urges? As early as mid 2021 Forbes reported that four of the five most vaccinated countries are experiencing surges. In my country less than 60% of people are fully vaccinated and covid hasn't been a thing for a while now. No complants in regards to hospitals, no apocalypse whatsoever. And yet China with their 90%+ vaccination rate is facing surges. And China is not an isolated case.

I believe the total lockdowns were a huge mistake (China has gone to extremes and it is backfiring) and the vaccine is just partly (and I'm being generous here) effective.

For the record, I don't think the vaccines didn't do any good. I don't think that vaccines are poison, a tracking device or a plot to murder me in the long run. I don't!

What I do believe though, it that vaccine protection has been overstated and that the vaccine strategy should target vulnerable groups exclusively instead of trying to intimidate the entire population and forcing people to get vaccinated out of fear of losing their freedom, jobs and livelihood.

Peace out.

I haven't disregarded any consequences. I acknowledge the restrictions has led to a lot of problems. But there is no doubt in my mind that for the most part they made sense and were right.

I mostly agreed with everything you said except "trying to intimidate the entire population and forcing people to get vaccinated out of fear of losing their freedom, jobs and livelihood", which tells me that we live in very different worlds because there hasn't been anything like that here in Norway.